What kind of EC's set you apart for Top Tier Medical Schools?

[NJ98]

Understanding that top tier med-schools are a crap shoot for anyone, apart from the stellar GPA and MCAT stats, what components of EC set an applicant apart for top tier medical schools? Lets say you have 150+ hours of shadowing, 150+ hours of clinical volunteering, and 100 hours of non-clinical, what kind of achievements really give an applicant a good chance for top tier medical schools? I know there's a wide variety but just some examples or guidance would be great!


EDIT: it seems as though from my post im solely asking about checking off boxes on my resume, but not exactly. For example, i am a huge oil painter and actually am very proud of the work i do. I am very passionate about it, how could i do anything with this that could help with my medical journey/fit my narrative?

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[bluepeony]

-Longevity: something you have worked on for a long time
-Something you can convey passion
-Something that ties in with your overall narrative

It all comes down to how you write and reflect about the activity moreso than the activity itself.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

150 hours is a lot of shadowing. I've heard here on SDN that 50 is more than sufficient.

 

[deleted972488]

How many times does this need to be asked? How about instead of asking which boxes you need to check, you go out and find something that you are passionate about? That will help you stand out.

 

[capriccio]

This thread is just begging Walter to come in with his NASA astronaut/Peace Corps/military hero spiel lmao.

Seriously though, I second what the previous posters said. At the end of the day I have nothing but baseless speculation why I got accepted by top schools, but I do know I did ECs I loved and enjoyed that meant a lot to me personally.

 

[907914]

How many times does this need to be asked? How about instead of asking which boxes you need to check, you go out and find something that you are passionate about? That will help you stand out.

This. 1000000% this. The people who have impressive ECs didn't do them because they wanted to go to medical school. They did them due to a genuine passion or interest. And I am not just talking about the Olympic platinum winning, Fortune 50 founding, Space Force cadets... The person who runs a fundraiser every 4 months for an organization that she volunteers for and holds a leadership position at is A+ material.

 

[Goro]

Understanding that top tier med-schools are a crap shoot for anyone, apart from the stellar GPA and MCAT stats, what components of EC set an applicant apart for top tier medical schools? Lets say you have 150+ hours of shadowing, 150+ hours of clinical volunteering, and 100 hours of non-clinical, what kind of achievements really give an applicant a good chance for top tier medical schools? I know there's a wide variety but just some examples or guidance would be great!

I plan on posting my musings on what it takes to get into a Really Top School very soon.

Offhand, Two memorable things:
Hundreds if not 1000s of hrs in clinical exposure and/or service to others

Public health policy involvement or research

What they are NOT are things one SDNer keeps obsessing about.

 

[Engrailed]

I think also, even if it's not 1000 hours working at X organization, even if it's 500 if you were with them for YEARS and have remained active for a sustained period of time, it more meaningful than something you did like a year before you applied and stacked on hours in a sort period of time.
Just my 2 cents

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I think more than the passion you need sell yourself i.e. write good essays to get into top 20 UG or medical school. I know those who got into Top 10 medical schools and they don't have 1000s of hours in any EC. They have great GPA and MCAT from top 20 schools and have good ECs but I think difference is packaging i.e. essay writing

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Wait: military service, Peace Corps, Teach for America, and founding national and international nonprofits do not set you apart for top-20 schools? Developing and deploying a water filter for impoverished Gambians that can be made cheaply from local materials, for example, and is used in nearly a hundred villages throughout the country.

Someone that's been in the Peace Corps, then got an MPH and founded an international nonprofit that makes the New York Times and is featured on 60 Minutes, for example, doesn't quite make the grade? Seems like top-20 schools can get people that are close to being literal saints, the best that humankind can offer.

Maybe an Army scientist with extensive public health involvement and several first author papers might make the cut.

 

[differentiating]

Research tends to be helpful- most people interviewed at my school had at least 1 undergrad research experience, and could talk about it intelligently enough to show their scientific thought process and inquisitiveness. Volunteering that you’re passionate about is also always better than a checked box, too.

But there aren’t any ECs that will guarantee you an acceptance. The whole package matters.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Elected office plus the Medal of Honor might be as close as anything that exists on this earth, plus a 4.0 and 528.

 

[differentiating]

Wait: military service, Peace Corps, Teach for America, and founding national and international nonprofits do not set you apart for top-20 schools? Developing and deploying a water filter for impoverished Gambians that can be made cheaply from local materials, for example, and is used in nearly a hundred villages throughout the country.

Someone that's been in the Peace Corps, then got an MPH and founded an international nonprofit that makes the New York Times and is featured on 60 Minutes, for example, doesn't quite make the grade? Seems like top-20 schools can get people that are close to being literal saints, the best that humankind can offer.

Maybe an Army scientist with extensive public health involvement and several first author papers might make the cut.

There’s a difference between it not guaranteeing an acceptance and not being a positive on the application.

No, you don’t have to be a saint to attend a T20 - most of us are fairly typical individuals who just happen to be passionate about advancing medicine in some way, and had strong (not necessarily amazing) stats. If you present yourself with one coherent, strong story, that will help your app.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Still, don't you need to be close to a saint - or at least the sort of story that winds up either on Lifetime or on 60 Minutes - to attend a top 20 with a 3.6 from a no-name school? Something like a Silver Star and a Purple Heart, or a few first-author papers in Nature, or having won a Pulitzer in a previous life as a journalist in war-torn regions like Syria or the Congo.

 

[MacBee]

I’m convinced Walter is a bot.

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

I’m convinced Walter is a bot.

And that every time the words “Top 20” get typed into this site his system activates

 

[Engrailed]

And that every time the words “Top 20” get typed into this site his system activates

Im deceased

 

[Cheeezcake]

Feeding off Walt's energy every time he post

 

[differentiating]

Still, don't you need to be close to a saint - or at least the sort of story that winds up either on Lifetime or on 60 Minutes - to attend a top 20 with a 3.6 from a no-name school? Something like a Silver Star and a Purple Heart, or a few first-author papers in Nature, or having won a Pulitzer in a previous life as a journalist in war-torn regions like Syria or the Congo.

No.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Still, don't you need to be close to a saint - or at least the sort of story that winds up either on Lifetime or on 60 Minutes - to attend a top 20 with a 3.6 from a no-name school? Something like a Silver Star and a Purple Heart, or a few first-author papers in Nature, or having won a Pulitzer in a previous life as a journalist in war-torn regions like Syria or the Congo.

Don’t forget to give props to the T21-T25 schools. They have high admissions standards too ...

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Agreed; perhaps world-class accomplishments are not strictly necessary and an Army combat medic with a 3.6 and 525, plus a couple thousand hours of nonclinical volunteering, has a chance at top-25 schools.

 

[beattheprocess]

Agreed; perhaps world-class accomplishments are not strictly necessary and an Army combat medic with a 3.6 and 525, plus a couple thousand hours of nonclinical volunteering, has a chance at top-25 schools.

What the hell is wrong with you man?

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Huh? Maybe the combat medic is a bit extraordinary...but he's got a chance if he was a Division I athlete, or was in the Peace Corps, or owns a million-dollar landscaping business.

 

[deleted962973]

Huh? Maybe the combat medic is a bit extraordinary...but he's got a chance if he was a Division I athlete, or was in the Peace Corps, or owns a million-dollar landscaping business.

I get you’re taking the piss but it stops being funny after the 5000th post saying the same thing. I don’t get why moderator action hasn’t been taken yet tbh...

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Out of curiosity: would designing a bot that could post posts like these be something that was considered an "excellent EC"? It could be impressive for the computer-science folks. "Wrote bot that could post human-quality posts in premedical forums."

 

[deleted972488]

Out of curiosity: would designing a bot that could post posts like these be something that was considered an "excellent EC"? It could be impressive for the computer-science folks. "Wrote bot that could post human-quality posts in premedical forums."

These are not human-quality posts. That's the point.

 

[Lawpy]

I get you’re taking the piss but it stops being funny after the 5000th post saying the same thing. I don’t get why moderator action hasn’t been taken yet tbh...

Yeah agreed. It's boring, so I just completely ignore them. Not sure why people are getting mad when they can just use the Ignore Function.

 

[seanm028]

I didn't reveal it in my application, but it was hard not to notice the horns sprouting under the hairline, despite my best efforts to keep them trimmed. A young buck just wants to sprout.

*antlers

 

[NJ98]

How many times does this need to be asked? How about instead of asking which boxes you need to check, you go out and find something that you are passionate about? That will help you stand out.

I have a couple interests that have nothing to do with medicine (camping and oil painting) so i guess i was jsut trying to get some insight into doing something productive with these that could help me. I definitely do not want to be a box-checking applicant.

 

[NJ98]

I think also, even if it's not 1000 hours working at X organization, even if it's 500 if you were with them for YEARS and have remained active for a sustained period of time, it more meaningful than something you did like a year before you applied and stacked on hours in a sort period of time.
Just my 2 cents

Thank you!

 

[907914]

I have a couple interests that have nothing to do with medicine (camping and oil painting) so i guess i was jsut trying to get some insight into doing something productive with these that could help me. I definitely do not want to be a box-checking applicant.

Volunteer to take underprivileged youth camping. Call it a math camp but really you just make them do a math problem every time they want a smore. Boom.

Alternatively, the hobbies section can occasionally make you stand out.

 

[Goro]

I get you’re taking the piss but it stops being funny after the 5000th post saying the same thing. I don’t get why moderator action hasn’t been taken yet tbh...

You can always use the Report Post button

 

[aldol16]

A lot of times, what sets a candidate apart is not necessarily what ECs they have but rather how they spin and work the EC into their narrative. The best narratives are the most compelling ones. So whatever ECs you have and are passionate about, work it into your overall narrative. Imagine that you're giving the admissions committee a one-liner that summarizes everything about you. How would you do that? You wouldn't just rattle off a long, incoherent list. You'd figure out a way to contextualize your activities, i.e. passionate about research and teaching, so you work in a lab for 4 years while starting an science outreach program for youth.

 

[capriccio]

I have a couple interests that have nothing to do with medicine (camping and oil painting) so i guess i was jsut trying to get some insight into doing something productive with these that could help me. I definitely do not want to be a box-checking applicant.

pm'd you about the oil painting/art stuff!

 

[Ampharos]

Nearly half of students in my class came in with full peer-reviewed publications — even those who went straight through without a gap year!

 

[kinjin24]

most likely research

 

[Neuronom]

EDIT: it seems as though from my post im solely asking about checking off boxes on my resume, but not exactly. For example, i am a huge oil painter and actually am very proud of the work i do. I am very passionate about it, how could i do anything with this that could help with my medical journey/fit my narrative?

My narrative differentiated my application. Something that makes you more interesting than the other apps/interviewers.

Offhand, Two memorable things:
Hundreds if not 1000s of hrs in clinical exposure and/or service to others

Public health policy involvement or research

What they are NOT are things one SDNer keeps obsessing about.

More hours = longer, more defined narrative.
Research was not a huge factor in my admission. It's only one piece of the pie, unless it is the core of your narrative.

At the end of the day, it's all about selling yourself. How can you (honestly) display your personal "why medicine." Everything else is just reassuring schools that you're as competent as the next guy.

IMO

 

[Ultimakey]

Wait: military service, Peace Corps, Teach for America, and founding national and international nonprofits do not set you apart for top-20 schools? Developing and deploying a water filter for impoverished Gambians that can be made cheaply from local materials, for example, and is used in nearly a hundred villages throughout the country.

Someone that's been in the Peace Corps, then got an MPH and founded an international nonprofit that makes the New York Times and is featured on 60 Minutes, for example, doesn't quite make the grade? Seems like top-20 schools can get people that are close to being literal saints, the best that humankind can offer.

Maybe an Army scientist with extensive public health involvement and several first author papers might make the cut.

Oh no, why were you put on hold? You never troll!

 

[MyOdyssey]

Nearly half of students in my class came in with full peer-reviewed publications — even those who went straight through without a gap year!

T5 medical school?

 

[sadpremed121]

T5 medical school?

Ya this is pretty common I’ve heard. Have a friend at WashU who told me more than 1/2 are published.

 

[MyOdyssey]

A lot of times, what sets a candidate apart is not necessarily what ECs they have but rather how they spin and work the EC into their narrative. The best narratives are the most compelling ones. So whatever ECs you have and are passionate about, work it into your overall narrative. Imagine that you're giving the admissions committee a one-liner that summarizes everything about you. How would you do that? You wouldn't just rattle off a long, incoherent list. You'd figure out a way to contextualize your activities, i.e. passionate about research and teaching, so you work in a lab for 4 years while starting an science outreach program for youth.

How does an applicant explain choosing the MD route if research and teaching are career goals? Wouldn’t MD/PhD make more sense?

 

[sadpremed121]

How does an applicant explain choosing the MD route if research and teaching are career goals? Wouldn’t MD/PhD make more sense?

Academic medicine where they want to do clinical work but also research and teach. Md/phd is really if you want to do like 90% research and want to run a lab.

 

[Goro]

Oh no, why were you put on hold? You never troll!

When one is on probation, and specifically warned NOT to do something, it's wise to keep one's mouth shut.

How does an applicant explain choosing the MD route if research and teaching are career goals? Wouldn’t MD/PhD make more sense?

There's a time factor with MD/PhD...an extra 3-5 years! One CAN do research and teach with the MD only.

 

[Planes2Doc]

The best activities will have two important things:
1. Adequate activity numbers: Make sure you have done the activity for long enough, with a good number of hours (150 minimum), and is still a CURRENT activity when you apply to medical school.
2. Adequate academic numbers: Make sure these ECs allow you to get the best grades and MCAT possible. A stellar EC will make a great applicant look better. A stellar EC will not help a crappy applicant much. No one will care if you're chief scribe with multiple C's and poor MCAT score.

Also, make sure you can convey your passion. This is best done with with non-clinical volunteering, since you can do something you actually care about. I got into photography before I started a post-bacc, and did free shoots for charitable organizations. It was lots of fun, and I plan on doing this after residency since I genuinely enjoy it. As you may have guessed, photography opportunities are sporadic in nature. Thus I did weekly volunteering in a local emergency department. I'm not going to lie, but it sucked horribly. The most important lesson I learned from it was to be nice to all of the pre-meds, because I only had poor interactions with the physicians and nurses there. I was actually fetching a warm blanket for an admission last night (remember, you're never too good for anything) and made a crack about pre-med volunteering to the nurse, and I actually had some rather unpleasant flashbacks to my hospital volunteering.

Therefore, pick something you're passionate about. Piggyback it onto something like hospital volunteering, ideally something that allows you to study during the shifts (as long as you aren't negatively affecting things). Skip entry-level clinical jobs, they are dime a dozen with heavy time commitments. Instead of doing the latter, study your ass off with that time you would have spent working. So when you get passion with amazing numbers, then you'll stand out.

 

[Ampharos]

I've found that mission statements are usually really telling. (emphasis mine)

Stanford's Mission statement:
The Stanford University School of Medicine is a premier research-intensive institution improving health through collaborative discoveries and innovation in patient care, education and research.

Harvard's Mission Statement:
To nurture a diverse, inclusive community dedicated to alleviating suffering and improving health and well-being for all through excellence in teaching and learning, discovery and scholarship, and service and leadership.

UCSF's Mission Statement:
At UCSF, the purpose of medical education is to educate learners who will improve the health of our communities and alleviate suffering due to illness and disease in our patients.

 

[aldol16]

How does an applicant explain choosing the MD route if research and teaching are career goals? Wouldn’t MD/PhD make more sense?

Plenty of MDs do research and teach. If you want to spend most of your time doing research and teaching, then MD/PhD is probably a better route for you. If you want to spend most of your time doing clinical work and still have some research and teaching time, you can be an MD and still do that.

 

[907914]

Plenty of MDs do research and teach. If you want to spend most of your time doing research and teaching, then MD/PhD is probably a better route for you. If you want to spend most of your time doing clinical work and still have some research and teaching time, you can be an MD and still do that.

Is it feasible to do like 60% clinical, 30% teaching, 10% research? Like, I love research but want it to be a smaller component of my job than teaching and a much smaller component than clinical.

 

[gyngyn]

Is it feasible to do like 60% clinical, 30% teaching, 10% research? Like, I love research but want it to be a smaller component of my job than teaching and a much smaller component than clinical.

That looks like my job 20 years ago!
Or more like: 30% clinical, 60% teaching, 10% research.

 

[aldol16]

Is it feasible to do like 60% clinical, 30% teaching, 10% research? Like, I love research but want it to be a smaller component of my job than teaching and a much smaller component than clinical.

Someone who has actually negotiated a package and been hired would be a better person to answer this. If you're near the beginning of your career, I'd guess that you have less leverage so you'll take what you can get. Academic medicine seems like a pretty good fit for you. Just keep in mind that the less clinical work you do, the more of a hit your salary takes. That's because your value as an employee is directly related to how many RVUs you can generate.

 

[907914]

That looks like my job 20 years ago!
Or more like: 30% clinical, 60% teaching, 10% research.

Is it possible to do more clinical than teaching in academic medicine?

Someone who has actually negotiated a package and been hired would be a better person to answer this. If you're near the beginning of your career, I'd guess that you have less leverage so you'll take what you can get. Academic medicine seems like a pretty good fit for you. Just keep in mind that the less clinical work you do, the more of a hit your salary takes. That's because your value as an employee is directly related to how many RVUs you can generate.

Sounds like something in that realm is my direction. As far as work goes, I would like more clinical than not, however as far as paycheck goes - as long as I can work 40-50 hours a week, treat patients and teach so MED students/residents, have a nice house, afford all my bills, pay for my daughter’s college, eat out a few times a week, and go on 3 or 4 vacations a year I don’t care about a higher-than-needed salary!