What makes a good doctor?

[Psycho Doctor]

Some people say it's just qualifications...good grades, a good MCAT score to get admitted to med school and that's good enough. Some people don't even feel you need to have the passion to be a doctor or desire to help others. Some think power and desire for money are good enough reasons.

I always thought it was so much more. Am I too idealistic?

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[Espion]

Some people say it's just qualifications...good grades, a good MCAT score to get admitted to med school and that's good enough. Some people don't even feel you need to have the passion to be a doctor or desire to help others. Some think power and desire for money are good enough reasons.

I always thought it was so much more. Am I too idealistic?

Nope, not too idealistic, because good grades and a good MCAT score (or even a good Step I/II/III score) do not a good doctor make. The best doctors I have seen are a mix of efficiency, compassion, integrative thinking and have a desire to learn and know more. You can't learn that stuff from the organic chemistry section of the MCAT. And if someone desires money and power, they should quit now and go to business school. There are much easier ways to make money.

 

[HoodyHoo]

Some people say it's just qualifications...good grades, a good MCAT score to get admitted to med school and that's good enough. Some people don't even feel you need to have the passion to be a doctor or desire to help others. Some think power and desire for money are good enough reasons.

I always thought it was so much more. Am I too idealistic?

It is so much more. whoever told you it's just grades, scores, desire for money etc...is full of $hit. how about social skills??? how about empathy, compassion for your patients?? how about problem solving skills??

Grades and MCAT only get you in, they don't make you a good, competent doctor.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

It is so much more. whoever told you it's just grades, scores, desire for money etc...is full of $hit. how about social skills??? how about empathy, compassion for your patients?? how about problem solving skills??

Grades and MCAT only get you in, they don't make you a good, competent doctor.

I should include that the people who felt qualifications made a good prospective doctor went on to say that competence made a good doctor. However they failed to believe compassion, empathy and rapport with patients were important.

And I don't think they are full of $hit; i think they really truly believe that...how sad.

 

[IgweEmeka]

Nope, not too idealistic, because good grades and a good MCAT score (or even a good Step I/II/III score) do not a good doctor make. The best doctors I have seen are a mix of efficiency, compassion, integrative thinking and have a desire to learn and know more. You can't learn that stuff from the organic chemistry section of the MCAT. And if someone desires money and power, they should quit now and go to business school. There are much easier ways to make money.

But there isn't a guarenteed way to make money in business. How many "business" people even make half of what a successful surgeon makes(approx. 300k+), only about one third. I am in no way condoning anyone whose sole reason for going into medicine is for the money, however saying that there are much easier ways to make money is not a true statement at all.

 

[pseudoknot]

I would agree that empathy is necessary to be a *good* doctor. The thing is, I think a lot of people on this board have a very idealized view of what most doctors are really like. They're not perfect. Honestly, most physicians I've dealt with seemed to care to some degree, but generally I've had the feeling that they're basically doing their job.

I kind of think the doctor-patient relationship tends to be a little cold and impersonal; maybe this is because of the need for professional distance, maybe because a lot of doctors are in it for the money, who knows. Haven't you ever heard someone's manner described as "clinical?" It's not a compliment.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I would agree that empathy is necessary to be a *good* doctor. The thing is, I think a lot of people on this board have a very idealized view of what most doctors are really like. They're not perfect. Honestly, most physicians I've dealt with seemed to care to some degree, but generally I've had the feeling that they're basically doing their job.

I kind of think the doctor-patient relationship tends to be a little cold and impersonal; maybe this is because of the need for professional distance, maybe because a lot of doctors are in it for the money, who knows. Haven't you ever heard someone's manner described as "clinical?" It's not a compliment.

I agree that many are like that. However many are not. I know a surgeon who establishes a bond with all his patients. He gets to know them and their families. He feels their anxiety and offers support and compassion. I think he knows in his heart that he is not infalliable but i know he takes every single death personally, and it breaks him as if he should have somehow been able to play God and prevent it from happening. And even months, sometimes years later he gets in touch with the families to find out how they are doing. I know this is rare but i find it inspiring.

 

[shahalam]

Would you rather have a doctor who hold your hand while you cry, or would you rather have a doctor that doesnt really care about you but gets you perfectly better? Your call.

 

[Shredder]

proficiency. thats all.

 

[wendywellesley]

Would you rather have a doctor who hold your hand while you cry, or would you rather have a doctor that doesnt really care about you but gets you perfectly better? Your call.

i don't think there is any doctor who will make you perfectly better, no matter how "good" she is.

 

[NiteOwl]

For one of my classes I had to interview a doctor and I asked him what kind of characteristics are needed in a person who wants to become a doctor. He replied:

"Getting into and through medical school requires total commitment. Being a good doctor requires a genuine concern for the well-being of your patients and an interest in the always-changing science on which medicine is based. Being successful in practice requires an understanding of basic and applied economics. It isn’t easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is."

I agree with what he said. It requires commitment. You do need to actually care about your patients. You need to be interested in medicine. Yes, as others have mentioned, you do need good grades and MCAT scores, but that isn't what being a doctor is all about.

 

[tank you]

proficiency. thats all.

that only applies to surgeons.

 

[shantster]

Would you rather have a doctor who hold your hand while you cry, or would you rather have a doctor that doesnt really care about you but gets you perfectly better? Your call.

If the doctor does not care about his or her patients, then the patients will perceive this attitude as a lack of commitment to their care or that the doctor does not believe that the patient will get better. To be a good doctor, the two skills are utilized together and are not mutually exclusive.

 

[45408]

that only applies to surgeons.

how about a radiologist? or anesthesiologist?

I have to say, this is the most honest thread that I've seen on why people want to be doctors. I fall in the category that pre-med wasn't that hard for me and you've got to do something with your life. People with molecular biology degrees do one of two things: you either become a doctor, or you become a researcher. I guess you could go into business too, but then you're sitting behind a desk all day reformatting TPS reports. Been there, done that, no thanks. Researchers are odd people. There just isn't much sense of normalcy at a research symposiums or in laboratories. It's really hard to crack jokes with people who don't often see the light of day.

Medicine is another animal entirely. The people in the ER and doctor's offices are REAL people. They don't know jack crap about the latest advances in DNA sequencing technology or protein morphology, and they don't really care. The paramedics crack jokes with each other and the ER doctors. Both groups hit on the nurses and the nurses hit back. Everybody tells stories about their kids or their spouses or installing their sprinkler system. The patients are crying because they lost a loved one, or because they were assualted by their loved one. The patients are happy, sad, scared, impatient, angry, scared, and really scared. This is the human experience at its best, its worst, its most profound and its most mundane. That's why there are so many shows on TV nowadays depicting this scene (however inaccurately). I want to do medicine for the money, the science, the challenge, and the prestige. But most of all I want to do it to be an important part of the real, human experience that plays out every single day at every hosiptal and in every doctor's office across the nation and around the world.

To all those people who are in it just for the money, I hope you come to appreciate the human aspect of medicine, because life is not about how much money you amass, but about how much fun you had with it, and how many people's lives you brushed, touched, altered, or completely and hopelessly entwined yourself in.

 

[crazy_cavalier]

I have to say, this is the most honest thread that I've seen on why people want to be doctors. I fall in the category that pre-med wasn't that hard for me and you've got to do something with your life. People with molecular biology degrees do one of two things: you either become a doctor, or you become a researcher. I guess you could go into business too, but then you're sitting behind a desk all day reformatting TPS reports. Been there, done that, no thanks. Researchers are odd people. There just isn't much sense of normalcy at a research symposiums or in laboratories. It's really hard to crack jokes with people who don't often see the light of day.

Medicine is another animal entirely. The people in the ER and doctor's offices are REAL people. They don't know jack crap about the latest advances in DNA sequencing technology or protein morphology, and they don't really care. The paramedics crack jokes with each other and the ER doctors. Both groups hit on the nurses and the nurses hit back. Everybody tells stories about their kids or their spouses or installing their sprinkler system. The patients are crying because they lost a loved one, or because they were assualted by their loved one. The patients are happy, sad, scared, impatient, angry, scared, and really scared. This is the human experience at its best, its worst, its most profound and its most mundane. That's why there are so many shows on TV nowadays depicting this scene (however inaccurately). I want to do medicine for the money, the science, the challenge, and the prestige. But most of all I want to do it to be an important part of the real, human experience that plays out every single day at every hosiptal and in every doctor's office across the nation and around the world.

To all those people who are in it just for the money, I hope you come to appreciate the human aspect of medicine, because life is not about how much money you amass, but about how much fun you had with it, and how many people's lives you brushed, touched, altered, or completely and hopelessly entwined yourself in.

And the award for most awesome post about why go into medicine goes to... *drumline*

FlightFire!!

Two thumbs up all the way, great post.

 

[Sparky Man]

Would you rather have a doctor who hold your hand while you cry, or would you rather have a doctor that doesnt really care about you but gets you perfectly better? Your call.

well, i think caring and the 'perfect outcome' are related in most cases.

 

[chaeymaey]

A perfect MCAT score of course.




Sooooooo kidding!

 

[xSTALLiONx]

Some people say it's just qualifications...good grades, a good MCAT score to get admitted to med school and that's good enough. Some people don't even feel you need to have the passion to be a doctor or desire to help others. Some think power and desire for money are good enough reasons.

I always thought it was so much more. Am I too idealistic?

The best doctors have great GPA, great MCAT, great Step I/II/III, great residencies, great research, great interpersonal skills, great bedside manner, great intuition, great passion, great compassion, etc..

GPA + MCAT won't do it alone.....

but neither will Dedication and Passion..

Great Doctors are Great in Everything

 

[Sarikate]

I'll tell you what - I had a doctor recently who acted as if he knew everything under the sun. He was very thorough, and definitely smart, but a complete jackass. He had no time for my questions, no time to make me feel like a human being instead of a bundle of intestines. It made me not trust him; why would I want to tell this nasty person all of the intimate details about my gastrointestinal tract? Today, I saw an elderly infectious disease doc. He was soft-spoken, careful, and what made all the difference was this little inquiry: "Do you have any questions for me?" And he WAITED while I thought. He waited with a look on his face that said, "I'm here for you, and you are worth my time. Don't rush yourself."

THAT, more than anything else, made me trust him. And that, in turn, makes me a better patient. More willing to tell him about what's really going on in there. Not some jerk who orders procedures left and right and throws meds at me without taking a full history or spending more than five minutes with me - the patient, the sick one coming to him for help, the one who is shelling out the dollars for the 20% of his service that my insurance doesn't cover. A little humility, a little patience, a bit of empathy - this goes a LONG way.

When you are sick, there is nothing worse than having a doctor who never smiles, who never sits down and actually looks at your face. Doctors are people too - and should act like it.

 

[KingTutATL]

Nope, not too idealistic, because good grades and a good MCAT score (or even a good Step I/II/III score) do not a good doctor make. The best doctors I have seen are a mix of efficiency, compassion, integrative thinking and have a desire to learn and know more. You can't learn that stuff from the organic chemistry section of the MCAT. And if someone desires money and power, they should quit now and go to business school. There are much easier ways to make money.

No offense to anyone but in my experience I've seen the the B school students work so much less than any other career track. The classes and req they have a the biggest joke when comparing a pre med student. For someone to have the will to take another 4 years of school, 3+ years work residency, and another 4 for a surgeon they damn better be making some money to show for all of that learning. Back to the Topic I like to think of doctors in this way: I remember the smartest people in my highschool that made the top 3% were horrible at everything else that I ever saw them do. Couldn't drive a car, socially interact, play sports, give a speech, and a lot of other things. Just being smart and making the grades isn't going to make you a good doctor. Yes, you need compassion for helping others, sacrificing your time and energy to cure, be able to correct your mistakes, learn from others, have a humble attitude because your way may not be the best way.

 

[Haybrant]

I always thought it was so much more. Am I too idealistic?

someone with 5000+ posts should know that this isnt true; i dont know what your deal is PD but you have issues; and please change your bugs bunny picture, please

 

[LabMonster]

I think the best doctors blur the line between doctor and patient. The patient knows it's there, the doc knows it's there, but there is an unspoken agreement saying: we're both just people, but right now you need help and I can provide it.

The vast majority of doctors are very intelligent people who have done well academically their whole lives. The best docs use their own strengths to develop the necessary intangibles to become the best in their respective specialties.

 

[getunconcsious]

I'm probably the wrong person to ask, I celebrate my lack of passion for the field.

But I'd assume what makes a good doctor is different for each specialty. For primary care, you've got to have a way with people or it just won't work. If you're a gynecologist or a colorectal specialist, you've got to be one of those people who can breach the akwardness in the least uncomfortable way possible. If you're a surgeon, radiologist, or anesthesiologist, it probably comes more from being the most technically proficient. If you're a forensic pathologist, you've got to be good at using logic to solve mysteries with no input from the patient. If you're a biomedical researcher you've got to be creative, persistent, and great at interpreting novel, ambiguous data.

In other words, your question is way too broad because what makes a good doctor varies so much depending on the kind of doctor you are referring to.

 

[Espion]

But there isn't a guarenteed way to make money in business. How many "business" people even make half of what a successful surgeon makes(approx. 300k+), only about one third. I am in no way condoning anyone whose sole reason for going into medicine is for the money, however saying that there are much easier ways to make money is not a true statement at all.

How many businessmen have to have malpractice insurance? How many businessmen are required to make potentially life or death decisions about their clients?

Think beyond the "practice" of medicine. You could just go through the motions to make a ton of money, but why is that worth it?

[I'm not implying that you are a horrible, selfish egotistical poster who only wants to exploit gramma by prescribing the most expensive diabetes med because you get kickbacks from the pharmaceutical company. I'm just clarifying my statement.]

 

[Shredder]

I think the best doctors blur the line between doctor and patient. The patient knows it's there, the doc knows it's there, but there is an unspoken agreement saying: we're both just people, but right now you need help and I can provide it.

The vast majority of doctors are very intelligent people who have done well academically their whole lives. The best docs use their own strengths to develop the necessary intangibles to become the best in their respective specialties.

not sure about that, docs need to maintain their professionalism and authority, otherwise patients may get unruly and disobedient. and before ppl cry tyrant, that kind of behavior could be bad for patients, since docs know better than they do what is best for them. patients dont see docs as just ppl, they see them as gods, thus the doc god complex.

 

[cammy1313]

Accountability-- being able to admit when they're wrong.

 

[lfesiam]

no matter what field you go into, every physician took the oath. for those who got accepted but don't truly believe in what is stated in the oath, don't even bother going to your white coat ceremony. If you must go, then say something else instead that you believe in...something like...i pledge to money and power or something. but for me, i'm idealistic, no problem with that. compassion my friends.

The Oath
By Hippocrates
Written 400 B.C.E

Translated by Francis Adams

I SWEAR by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others. I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion.

With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!

 

[FutureOrthoDoc]

What makes a good doc is the ability to make decisions, be a leader, and above all not judge your fellow man. It is the ability to take on challenges that would make an ordinary person crumble. It is the ability to value human life more than anything in the world. It is about making good on a promise to others and yourself to work hard, almost to the point of exhaustion, even thought you wanted to quit. It is about being involved with your family and community, even when the stresses of work make you want to withdraw. It takes that very special someone.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Would you rather have a doctor who hold your hand while you cry, or would you rather have a doctor that doesnt really care about you but gets you perfectly better? Your call.

definitely one who does both; they are not mutally exclusve and a lot of you fail to recognize that.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I'll tell you what - I had a doctor recently who acted as if he knew everything under the sun. He was very thorough, and definitely smart, but a complete jackass. He had no time for my questions, no time to make me feel like a human being instead of a bundle of intestines. It made me not trust him; why would I want to tell this nasty person all of the intimate details about my gastrointestinal tract? Today, I saw an elderly infectious disease doc. He was soft-spoken, careful, and what made all the difference was this little inquiry: "Do you have any questions for me?" And he WAITED while I thought. He waited with a look on his face that said, "I'm here for you, and you are worth my time. Don't rush yourself."

THAT, more than anything else, made me trust him. And that, in turn, makes me a better patient. More willing to tell him about what's really going on in there. Not some jerk who orders procedures left and right and throws meds at me without taking a full history or spending more than five minutes with me - the patient, the sick one coming to him for help, the one who is shelling out the dollars for the 20% of his service that my insurance doesn't cover. A little humility, a little patience, a bit of empathy - this goes a LONG way.

When you are sick, there is nothing worse than having a doctor who never smiles, who never sits down and actually looks at your face. Doctors are people too - and should act like it.

agreed

 

[Psycho Doctor]

someone with 5000+ posts should know that this isnt true; i dont know what your deal is PD but you have issues; and please change your bugs bunny picture, please

huh? what do you mean i have issues? what the heck is that supposed to mean and what does it have to do with my thread?

and what's the matter with my bugs bunny avatar? give me a website with cool doctor avatars and I'll consider changing it. I had a hard time finding any and frankly haven't had the time to look for anything better recently. oh and yours is so good???

 

[Shredder]

Accountability-- being able to admit when they're wrong.

and getting sued?

 

[AnotherDork]

I SWEAR... to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation

I should just mail this back to my school instead of my financial aid acceptance letter and see what happens

 

[aragonh]

and getting sued?

Thats why there is malpractice insurance. Its for the honest people.

Seriously, I would say a great physician is one who is willing to learn from others as well as from their mistakes. There is no perfect doctor at the moment. Therefore one who is open to constructive criticism and willing to take the steps to learn more is on the road to become a great doctor

 

[Calizona]

The Oath
By Hippocrates
Written 400 B.C.E

Translated by Francis Adams

I SWEAR by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others. I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion.

With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!

Well if you're gonna say that we should follow the hippocratic oath with complete faith in its teachings than we must completely abolish abortions in the US and give great preference to the sons of physicians when choosing who is to learn the art of medicine. I'd say that the hippocratic oath holds some useful parts but then also contains parts that are outdated and clash with the current times and teachings

 

[Shredder]

Disobedient and unruly. What a disgusting choice of words! It is like you are referring to patients as uneducated lowlifes. Face it. You may have patients that have gone in to harder scientific fields than we have. Many patients do realize that we are human. It's many of us that see ourselves as god like. This is why people refer to us as having narsisistic personalities.

dont be silly, the masses are unintelligent. they can very well be disobedient and unruly if you show weakness. its just like a teacher that students abuse. typically smarter people take better care of their health and are less likely to end up in the hospital. when a patient sees a doc he doesnt see just another human, he sees somewhat of a deity.

 

[getunconcsious]

The hippocratic oath is a piece of outdated, meaningless gibberish, much like the bible.

 

[Shredder]

the hypocritical oath

 

[getunconcsious]

the hypocritical oath

I like the way you think, Shredder. It's nice to see another elitist ass who believes nothing is sacred

 

[Skeptrix]

by doing everything with a pinch of compassion

 

[Shredder]

So, I guess your former mathematics professor is unintelligent. Could you imagine how stupid your biochem professor must have been? I mean really. Grow up!

There is a woman that could not pass her entrance requirements for a ugrad engineering program. So, she decided on a medical career. She switched to psychology and did her pre-med reqs. She did well because the pre-med courses where not as rigourous as the entrance courses for engineering and other physical science programs. She found it to be a relief that she could get away from calculus based courses. She is now my classmate in medical school. She knows that she is not God and that the physical sciences are really tough for her.

Get off your high horse.

Your post sounds unintelligent and rather incoherent.

huh, i meant that people on the level of professors and other intellectuals are not as likely to end up in the hospital as 90% of other people. ive seen the clientele at hospitals, theyre not exactly high class. i dont always put a lot of time into my posts because people dont often take a lot of time to read posts, so if anything is incoherent well try to piece it together. people look up to docs. being around docs isnt like being around non docs, thats just how it is. high horse, eh i think that medicine isnt much more than a job, but society doesnt perceive docs this way.