MPH What should I major in for Undergrad?

[Eso233]

I'm sorry I'm new to these forums so if I'm in the wrong section, or asking to wrong question just tell me.

Either way, I'm currently doing a Global Health BPhil at University of Pittsburgh. I was pre-med until now so I've completed a chemistry minor and now I have to choose a major. Because at my school, and I'm assuming with all BPhils, you have to have a parent degree. According to my advisor I'm closest to finishing a Health Services degree and shortly after that a Biology degree. But, if I pursue the biology degree I may have to stay an extra semester or two.

The Global Health BPhil and the Health Services - Community Health major overlap significantly. So during the process of me pursuing the BPhil that I truly enjoyed (and if I had a choice I would've majored in as well), I completed several prereq's for the Health Services major. But my family doesn't think highly of the degree, mostly because no one knew about it until I did some personal digging, and because its under the General Studies college of my university. The department states its a great degree for getting an entry level position in the hospital management workforce, but I'm planning to go directly into grad school for my Public Health degree so it doesn't personally matter to me, and I already have experience working in an entry level Hospital management role.

The biology degree on the other hand will require some more time as many of the credits I brought into college with me were deemed not strong enough for the department. Also I have many electives, extra labs, and such I have to worry about. I'm a biology TA, but I'll admit that some of the pre-med courses kicked my ass, and I had to retake a few. So I only have a grim out look on my future science classes, although many of my friends insist that it only gets easier when it comes to sciences. My family feels its worth it, for me to stay in there and get that strong science degree over Health Services. But, I'm afraid that in the unlikely event I don't immediately go to graduate school and I decide to work with my biology degree the best thing I'll be doing is pipetting.

I feel I just need an outside opinion about this Health Services BA degree and I hope you guys can shed more light on it. Thanks for your help.

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[Vespasian]

I would suggest getting a degree in whatever program interests you the most. My undergrad degree is a BSPH but I don't think it really did much for PH graduate school other than helping to guide me toward epidemiology.

 

[oceanhue]

I don't think it really matters what you major in unless you're gonna go for biostatistics. I majored in the social sciences with some art thrown in (you know, writing research papers on Michelangelo's Pietà and spending an entire quarter staring at Jan van Eyck paintings), and I was accepted to several epidemiology programs. So, there ya' go.

However, my only regret about studying art is that I still have nightmares about Pre-Columbia art and rituals. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss. SMH... gonna need years of therapy.

 

[Solara]

Yea I would honestly not want to stay an extra year unless I felt the benefit from that extra year was absolutely worth it. That year would be better spent getting on-the-job experience with a fellowship, hospital management, etc. Your undergrad degree might only be slightly relevant as you're trying to get jobs initially, but later in your career, it won't really matter compared to your work experience. There are SO MANY Biology BSs out there (especially those that apply for med school), and I really don't feel that having the degree will help. And quite honestly, the coursework isn't really going to give you a pertinent skill set.

Take my advice with a grain of salt b/c I'm not sure how either degree will definitively influence your ability to get a job, though I'd like to think having a Health Services degree won't hurt you. You should rather pursue things you're that passionate about; that will make you better at what you love to do, no matter how far off the trajectory it may seem.

 

[JaneOakmede]

I completely agree with the other folks here. If you are interested in getting into public health you definitely do not need a bio degree. My degree is in econ and I took a few science courses on the side. I think someone on here did their degree in graphic design and is now going into epi. Unless you might want to do med school or a biomedical PhD, I would go for the degree you are more interested in (especially since you can finish earlier!).

 

[KPZ]

I agree with everyone else. I have a degree in finance with some science classes and got into several schools. If you want to do epi, make sure you take calc, stats, and some science classes, which you probably have already taken. Other than that, which is pretty optional, a biology degree isn't going to do anything for you unless you plan on getting a graduate degree in the sciences. Since it's late I can't think of a politically correct way to say this, but health services does sound like a fluff degree. I'm not sure what the curriculum looks like, so that's really just a gut reaction because I've never heard of anyone with that degree. But what's most important is work/internship experience and volunteer experience, maybe study abroad if you are going the global health route. If you like the curriculum and it gives you the opportunities for those experiences, that's what you should do. If you want to be a lab scientist, which it doesn't sound like that's what you want to do, you could finish the bio degree. But honestly, your undergrad major matters so much less than you think it does. It only matters to the point that it gets you to your first opportunity, and the ball starts rolling from there.

 

[IntriguedStudent]

I'll just go ahead and reiterate what everybody else has said. Your undergraduate degree does not matter to MPH adcoms. What they are going to care about is your work/internship experience, your research, and your reason for entering the field. If your intention is to go straight for your MPH after you finish your undergraduate, do not do the biology degree. It would really be a waste of your money to stay at the school for longer than you need to.

Another thing to consider is what you would do if you do not go straight into an MPH (it looks like you've already thought about this, but I'll give my insight anyways). There are a lot of biology majors out there. In fact, there are a lot of science majors out there. My background is in the basic sciences (not biology, but in the same realm) and those degrees themselves do very little for you. I got lucky and found a job doing research in a lab, but most people do end up simply "pipetting" somewhere. I don't know what a Health Sciences major can do for you, but definitely research the opportunities and see if your school has any statistics on job placements for that major after graduation.

That all being said, take the route that seems to be the most fun/interesting to you. These are simply my comments as somebody who went the basic science route, has been in the work force, and is going for their MPH.

 

[Stories]

I think for some careers having a very strong science background is very important. Whether you get that education in undergrad or grad school doesn't matter, but you need to have some basis/founding in science. Particularly if you're interested in working in medical research--having that biology background is a good option. It'll open you up to all avenues of biomedical research. But if you're not interested in it... you'll never get through it, so pick something you are interested in but will give you a good basis/foundation in a career you'd be interested in.

In my line of work, having that biology degree has been foundational and critical. Without it, I'd be making a lot of assumptions and assessments I'm not so sure about.

 

[Eso233]

Thanks for the responses guys, @KPZ now that you mention that its a fluff degree I feel so doubtful about committing to it. But, I really, really don't want to be a lab scientist, and I already have my strong Global Health BPhil and science background so I'm not sure what to do otherwise. I'm already a sophmore going on junior so it's a little late for me to pick up an entirely new degree other than health services or biology (and very questionably Chemistry). My BPhil advisor said I could go over to the biology department and see if they'll accept some of my general health courses as biology elective credit, I'll have to hope for the best in how many of my global health courses they'll take as elective credit. Luckily my work/internship/volunteer/study-abroad experience has been more than stellar (I've worked in a children's hospital for a considerable period of time, I tutor nepali refugees on weekends/ I'm currently doing humanities (social issues) research/ I plan to go and take a few public health courses in Tanzania this summer, and next summer I would really like to intern with a local NGO think tank). My biggest problem is just choosing my undergraduate major. And I feel, just due to time and graduating with a good degree I'll have to do biology. Although personally I'm more interested in the research groups like Poverty Action Labs do, than actual biomedical research.

Albeit here's the health services degree if anyone is interested in evaluating its strength: http://www.cgs.pitt.edu/node/361 probably a very strong degree considering my institution, but generally if no one has heard of it, no matter how strong it is, it's unusable in the marketplace according to my parents. I'll personally take out some time to contact the department and get some stats to see if it's truly beneficial in any way like @IntriguedStudent said. If the health services degree does insure you some place in a hospital, paired with my hospital working experience, I should easily land a hospital clerical/management job after school if I choose to, and in that instance Health Services would be the better option.

 

[JaneOakmede]

Thanks for the responses guys, @KPZ now that you mention that its a fluff degree I feel so doubtful about committing to it. But, I really, really don't want to be a lab scientist, and I already have my strong Global Health BPhil and science background so I'm not sure what to do otherwise. I'm already a sophmore going on junior so it's a little late for me to pick up an entirely new degree other than health services or biology (and very questionably Chemistry). My BPhil advisor said I could go over to the biology department and see if they'll accept some of my general health courses as biology elective credit, I'll have to hope for the best in how many of my global health courses they'll take as elective credit. Luckily my work/internship/volunteer/study-abroad experience has been more than stellar (I've worked in a children's hospital for a considerable period of time, I tutor nepali refugees on weekends/ I'm currently doing humanities (social issues) research/ I plan to go and take a few public health courses in Tanzania this summer, and next summer I would really like to intern with a local NGO think tank). My biggest problem is just choosing my undergraduate major. And I feel, just due to time and graduating with a good degree I'll have to do biology. Although personally I'm more interested in the research groups like Poverty Action Labs do, than actual biomedical research.

Albeit here's the health services degree if anyone is interested in evaluating its strength: http://www.cgs.pitt.edu/node/361 probably a very strong degree considering my institution, but generally if no one has heard of it, no matter how strong it is, it's unusable in the marketplace according to my parents. I'll personally take out some time to contact the department and get some stats to see if it's truly beneficial in any way like @IntriguedStudent said. If the health services degree does insure you some place in a hospital, paired with my hospital working experience, I should easily land a hospital clerical/management job after school if I choose to, and in that instance Health Services would be the better option.

Honestly it does not look like a bad major to me, especially since you will have a chem minor to go with it. I personally would choose that degree if I did not need bio to get me where I want to go. What bio classes have you taken? Also math is really important for some public health fields like epi. Is there a difference in the math classes you would take for these two degrees? It sounds like you have excellent hands-on experiences and I think you would have no problem getting into a public health program with the health services degree. I wouldn't worry too much about getting a job with the degree either, unless you were going to try and work at a lab. What would you want to do at a hospital?

 

[KPZ]

Thanks for the responses guys, @KPZ now that you mention that its a fluff degree I feel so doubtful about committing to it. But, I really, really don't want to be a lab scientist, and I already have my strong Global Health BPhil and science background so I'm not sure what to do otherwise. I'm already a sophmore going on junior so it's a little late for me to pick up an entirely new degree other than health services or biology (and very questionably Chemistry). My BPhil advisor said I could go over to the biology department and see if they'll accept some of my general health courses as biology elective credit, I'll have to hope for the best in how many of my global health courses they'll take as elective credit. Luckily my work/internship/volunteer/study-abroad experience has been more than stellar (I've worked in a children's hospital for a considerable period of time, I tutor nepali refugees on weekends/ I'm currently doing humanities (social issues) research/ I plan to go and take a few public health courses in Tanzania this summer, and next summer I would really like to intern with a local NGO think tank). My biggest problem is just choosing my undergraduate major. And I feel, just due to time and graduating with a good degree I'll have to do biology. Although personally I'm more interested in the research groups like Poverty Action Labs do, than actual biomedical research.

Albeit here's the health services degree if anyone is interested in evaluating its strength: http://www.cgs.pitt.edu/node/361 probably a very strong degree considering my institution, but generally if no one has heard of it, no matter how strong it is, it's unusable in the marketplace according to my parents. I'll personally take out some time to contact the department and get some stats to see if it's truly beneficial in any way like @IntriguedStudent said. If the health services degree does insure you some place in a hospital, paired with my hospital working experience, I should easily land a hospital clerical/management job after school if I choose to, and in that instance Health Services would be the better option.

I didn't mean to sound so dismissive of it, just that I hadn't heard of it and that was my initial reaction. HOWEVER, looking at the curriculum it looks like it gives a good base in public health. If you intend to go to grad school immediately, seriously don't worry too much about your undergrad major, just do what you have to do to graduate. You could honestly have any major at all, and if this is what you enjoy then do it. Pitt is an excellent school for health majors as well. IF you were planning on searching for a job right away and you wanted to either do something in a lab then yes biology. But, my degree is in finance which my friends make fun of me for because it's a business degree and that's considered a little fluffy, however it's a PRACTICAL degree and I got a good internship and job with it. Obviously I don't like it too much, but that's neither here nor there. This looks like something similar in that way. It's more of a practical degree than building a foundation of knowledge. I'd assume if you're looking at hospital clerical positions their postings are going to say "a bachelors degree" or at most "a bachelors degree in these things or related field." You'll have that with this degree, so don't stress it. Like IntriguedStudent said, a biology degree is hard work and while not useless, not particularly useful if you're not going on to pursue grad work in that area.

Edits: And if what you're worried about is getting into an MPH program, then you'll have no problem with this degree, at all, given your experiences. It sounds like you are pretty firmly set on public health, so there's no issue with this. You could easily go on to an MBA, MHA, MPH, MPP, or anything similar, and could probably also do law school or social work.

 

[Eso233]

@JaneOakmede I'm not the strongest at math, but I will be taking an upper-level statistics class this year, I took Calc at a CC, and I've taken a few quantitative electives (classes that improve mathematical/statistical reasoning). In biology, I've almost completed the core (I'm two classes away from completing the biology core), but in Health Services I'm one class away from completing the core and the rest of the electives are already in my degree plan. I've really only taken biology 1 & 2 (in actual biology classes) but I'm planning to take genetics this coming semester, and my degree plan includes evolution, A&P, and Biochem. Lastly, will I be fine using AP credit for my economics requirement?

@KPZ I'm getting the strong feeling that, the only way my parents will feel comfortable with me pursuing MPH (they're afraid I won't be hired with the master's degree because of my race) is for me to get a joint professional degree. Do you think I'm a strong candidate for a joint MPH/PA program? If not what else do I have to do? Or, do you think a MPH/JD program is justifiable with no law background? Would the JD help in the public health workplace?

 

[IntriguedStudent]

@JaneOakmede I'm not the strongest at math, but I will be taking an upper-level statistics class this year, I took Calc at a CC, and I've taken a few quantitative electives (classes that improve mathematical/statistical reasoning). In biology, I've almost completed the core (I'm two classes away from completing the biology core), but in Health Services I'm one class away from completing the core and the rest of the electives are already in my degree plan. I've really only taken biology 1 & 2 (in actual biology classes) but I'm planning to take genetics this coming semester, and my degree plan includes evolution, A&P, and Biochem. Lastly, will I be fine using AP credit for my economics requirement?

@KPZ I'm getting the strong feeling that, the only way my parents will feel comfortable with me pursuing MPH (they're afraid I won't be hired with the master's degree because of my race) is for me to get a joint professional degree. Do you think I'm a strong candidate for a joint MPH/PA program? If not what else do I have to do? Or, do you think a MPH/JD program is justifiable with no law background? Would the JD help in the public health workplace?

You don't need a law background to get into a JD program. Law school is notorious for looking at their applicants using essentially only their GPA and LSAT.

Going into a graduate program should not be based on what your parents are comfortable with. This is your career, not theirs. I'm unsure of how your race will impact your ability to get hired with a master's degree? You should pursue the degree path that is going to make you feel fulfilled and happy. If you're interested in law or medicine, pursue one of those options. However, if you're not, do not go down that road. That's a lot more debt to take on if you aren't passionate about it. There are options for a JD in public health, but you're going to be working much more on the policy or public health law side of things.

 

[IntriguedStudent]

I didn't mean to sound so dismissive of it, just that I hadn't heard of it and that was my initial reaction. HOWEVER, looking at the curriculum it looks like it gives a good base in public health. If you intend to go to grad school immediately, seriously don't worry too much about your undergrad major, just do what you have to do to graduate. You could honestly have any major at all, and if this is what you enjoy then do it. Pitt is an excellent school for health majors as well. IF you were planning on searching for a job right away and you wanted to either do something in a lab then yes biology. But, my degree is in finance which my friends make fun of me for because it's a business degree and that's considered a little fluffy, however it's a PRACTICAL degree and I got a good internship and job with it. Obviously I don't like it too much, but that's neither here nor there. This looks like something similar in that way. It's more of a practical degree than building a foundation of knowledge. I'd assume if you're looking at hospital clerical positions their postings are going to say "a bachelors degree" or at most "a bachelors degree in these things or related field." You'll have that with this degree, so don't stress it. Like IntriguedStudent said, a biology degree is hard work and while not useless, not particularly useful if you're not going on to pursue grad work in that area.

Edits: And if what you're worried about is getting into an MPH program, then you'll have no problem with this degree, at all, given your experiences. It sounds like you are pretty firmly set on public health, so there's no issue with this. You could easily go on to an MBA, MHA, MPH, MPP, or anything similar, and could probably also do law school or social work.

I think people don't give enough credit to "fluffy" degrees. If you put the effort into it and utilize them to get internships while in school, they can do a lot more for you right out of undergrad than your more "academic" degrees. My fiance graduated with a business degree and her starting salary was more than double mine and all of our friends (with a very wide range of different degrees). She gained a lot of practical experience during undergrad though and that probably helped her a lot more than the degree did.

That Health Services degree really doesn't seem that bad when you look at the course offerings. Combined with internships (which it looks like you have/are getting), you'd have no problem finding a decent job after graduation if you chose not to go straight into graduate education.

 

[KPZ]

@JaneOakmede I'm not the strongest at math, but I will be taking an upper-level statistics class this year, I took Calc at a CC, and I've taken a few quantitative electives (classes that improve mathematical/statistical reasoning). In biology, I've almost completed the core (I'm two classes away from completing the biology core), but in Health Services I'm one class away from completing the core and the rest of the electives are already in my degree plan. I've really only taken biology 1 & 2 (in actual biology classes) but I'm planning to take genetics this coming semester, and my degree plan includes evolution, A&P, and Biochem. Lastly, will I be fine using AP credit for my economics requirement?

@KPZ I'm getting the strong feeling that, the only way my parents will feel comfortable with me pursuing MPH (they're afraid I won't be hired with the master's degree because of my race) is for me to get a joint professional degree. Do you think I'm a strong candidate for a joint MPH/PA program? If not what else do I have to do? Or, do you think a MPH/JD program is justifiable with no law background? Would the JD help in the public health workplace?

It really depends on what you want to do. Like IntriguedStudent mentioned, I am not sure what your race would have to do with anything. I know absolutely nothing about your background or what race you even are, but it sounds like maybe your parents experienced some discrimination based on their race and want to make sure you're set up for as much success and respect as possible, which is totally understandable. As far as what opportunities are available with the MPH, it will depend on the quality of the program plus your concentration and the opportunities you pursue while in grad school. Especially epidemiology and biostatistics students really have no problem finding jobs, and there's no reason any race would have a particularly more difficult time finding a job with an MPH versus any other degree. And MPH/JD is a good idea only if you want to do policy, and you can go for them congruently or separately. You only want to pay for the JD if you're going to a top 20 or better school, otherwise they're pretty worthless (though not always; my friend has a JD from a lower ranked school and makes 6 figures). Getting into a good JD program pretty much just depends on your LSAT and GPA; your undergrad degree doesn't matter at all.

Like mentioned above, only get a graduate degree in something if you're really passionate about it. Otherwise you're going to pay a bunch of money to be miserable. Don't just try to pursue what seems to be the most respectable in the eyes of your parents. If you're interested in becoming a PA, you probably would be qualified based on your science background but you're really going to want to talk to a pre-health advisor about that because I've never looked into those programs before.

Do you know what you want to do as a job? What types of courses do you enjoy the most?

Take it from me, your happiness is a gagillion times more important than trying to make the most money or appease someone else's expectations of you. Your parents just want to make sure you will be successful, which it sounds like you are doing everything you can to ensure that, so don't worry.

 

[an2592]

With a very few exceptions (i.e. engineering, BSN, accounting) most undergraduate majors aren't really all that great a path to employment (if that's your concern), nor are they that great a concern for most graduate programs. Your hospital management experience is far more valuable for that (hopefully you've started building something of a professional network). I majored in health administration, so many of my professors were in the C-suite or other leadership positions at healthcare organizations. I can't tell you how many times I heard that a bachelors degree is really more of a checkbox (e.g. do you have one or don't you, and, if not, good luck). Your network is far more important; who do you know? My undergrad experience was more a question of whether I could commit to something for four years. Plus the undergrad education is, by its very nature, generalized; half your time is spent on basic skills we all learn in college like reading, writing, and mathematics. If you were to go on to graduate studies in clinical medical care (e.g. MD, DO, PA), the hard sciences would be absolutely necessary. Since you're looking at public health (non-clinical), I'd get whatever degree was fastest to get the checkbox marked. This is not so much the case for grad school; grad school is far more focused and should really be as close as possible to the exact field you want to pursue for your career. I will say PA and JD are two wildly different career paths; make sure you know what you want to do before you commit to grad school. It's a big investment to find out you don't want to do that with your life.

 

[Stories]

For better or worse, race still matters in hiring. And not in a good way. This is just one example of an article I found while searching on the topic: http://fortune.com/2014/11/04/hiring-racial-bias/

 

[an2592]

For better or worse, race still matters in hiring. And not in a good way. This is just one example of an article I found while searching on the topic: http://fortune.com/2014/11/04/hiring-racial-bias/

That was an interesting find; thanks for that. Racism is still very real (of which health disparities are the unfortunate proof). I'd still have to say though, that in the case of OP, collecting unnecessary degrees isn't going to help address any hiring disparity they may encounter. There would be almost no worse reason to spend years in law school or PA school than as some attempt to avert racial hiring biases they may encounter regardless of said education. I think you should only get a PA because you want to provide clinical care; go to law school if you want to practice law; and get a MPH if you want to work in the public health arena specializing in the concentration you've studied.

 

[KPZ]

Agreed. Racism is still alive and kicking, but not any more so in public health than any other profession.

 

[Eso233]

Thanks so much guys! For all the support and banter, I would personally like to work in public health. I want to ease the health-related suffering groups and minorities of people face at the population-level due to socioeconomic discrimination and cultural habits. I'm more interested in the policy stuff, creating effective policies, testing current policies, proving policy through research, although breakthroughs such as discovering AIDS in L.A. also seem pretty cool to me (although the actual event is tragic). Social-issue research in health is pretty awesome to me as well, because I feel that only through research into those social issues can we prove those issues exist to the public,(the kind of research I'm doing now) and I'd love to work in a well-established NGO doing that, or any other corporation or government group that does the same thing...

But I am also an African American male, I know I'm hot topic right now, and my parents are very fearful of my future. They would love it, if I'd at least get a PA degree to back up my MPH so I would have a profession to fall back on. Personally, as I move further and further through college, I'm realizing the only thing I want to do is work in health policy, I kinda don't want to be a P.A., if I must be a clinician I rather go the full mile and become a doctor. But I feel there's no need to become a doctor if I don't care for the prestige or the money they make, and, rhetorically, could help more people with public health. And I've never really been law or politics inclined, I would only get a J.D. if it would add to the skill-set I need to be better at policy and research. Knowing my racial background I've tried much harder to make a solid resume to do well in graduate school and beyond, but my parents feel Public Health is one of those fields that'll frustrate you if you're a minority. I've never factored my race into the equation, I've never thought it would be a problem, but, I can't just dismiss their claims as I truly don't know if they're wrong or right. They have all these different cases of family members and friends failing after getting the degree from reputable sources and what's to say I'm not one of them. I'm sorry this is not a part of my original question, but as I continue discussing with my family on the daily basis with more and more solid plans, these reservations have started coming up. And they are getting to me. It sucks, I'm asking about this to strangers on the internet, but in reality who're you really going to ask about things like this.

 

[an2592]

Thanks so much guys! For all the support and banter, I would personally like to work in public health. I want to ease the health-related suffering groups and minorities of people face at the population-level due to socioeconomic discrimination and cultural habits. I'm more interested in the policy stuff, creating effective policies, testing current policies, proving policy through research, although breakthroughs such as discovering AIDS in L.A. also seem pretty cool to me (although the actual event is tragic). Social-issue research in health is pretty awesome to me as well, because I feel that only through research into those social issues can we prove those issues exist to the public,(the kind of research I'm doing now) and I'd love to work in a well-established NGO doing that, or any other corporation or government group that does the same thing...

But I am also an African American male, I know I'm hot topic right now, and my parents are very fearful of my future. They would love it, if I'd at least get a PA degree to back up my MPH so I would have a profession to fall back on. Personally, as I move further and further through college, I'm realizing the only thing I want to do is work in health policy, I kinda don't want to be a P.A., if I must be a clinician I rather go the full mile and become a doctor. But I feel there's no need to become a doctor if I don't care for the prestige or the money they make, and, rhetorically, could help more people with public health. And I've never really been law or politics inclined, I would only get a J.D. if it would add to the skill-set I need to be better at policy and research. Knowing my racial background I've tried much harder to make a solid resume to do well in graduate school and beyond, but my parents feel Public Health is one of those fields that'll frustrate you if you're a minority. I've never factored my race into the equation, I've never thought it would be a problem, but, I can't just dismiss their claims as I truly don't know if they're wrong or right. They have all these different cases of family members and friends failing after getting the degree from reputable sources and what's to say I'm not one of them. I'm sorry this is not a part of my original question, but as I continue discussing with my family on the daily basis with more and more solid plans, these reservations have started coming up. And they are getting to me. It sucks, I'm asking about this to strangers on the internet, but in reality who're you really going to ask about things like this.

Hey, a fellow health policy nut! Awesome! I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with a lack of support; that can't be fun. I, myself, was strongly considering law school, but I decided against it for two major reasons. Firstly, the debt almost necessitates working in big law, which equates (by almost complete consensus) to endless hours with no social life and miserable work. Big law or not, almost all law graduates try to practice law (it's what law school teaches you to do). And, on that note, is the second point; law school will teach you how to memorize case law and apply fact patterns to said case law. This is an awesome but unless set of skills if you don't intend to practice law. So, don't go to law school unless that's your passion.

If you're interested in health policy, a PA is almost completely useless (in my opinion). You will learn a clinical skill set which is meant to be applied to treating patients, and as an EMT and former pre-med student, I know something about clinical training. All the degrees you're considering are professional degrees meant to impart a set of professional skills. If you don't hope to use those skills, why would you pay tens (sometimes hundreds) of thousands of dollars to acquire them?

Admittedly, I haven't faced the obstacles of race that others have, but, firstly, I would say beware of anecdotal evidence. Secondly, yes, we're all strangers, but if there is a resounding theme in everyone's advice (here and anywhere else you'll look), it's to do something with your life that will make you happy. If race is challenge you have to overcome to do that, then so be it. And, yes, I know that's easier said than done. But, if you do what you love, you will be great at it, and I strongly believe you will succeed . . . for whatever a stranger's advice is worth.

 

[JaneOakmede]

Thanks so much guys! For all the support and banter, I would personally like to work in public health. I want to ease the health-related suffering groups and minorities of people face at the population-level due to socioeconomic discrimination and cultural habits. I'm more interested in the policy stuff, creating effective policies, testing current policies, proving policy through research, although breakthroughs such as discovering AIDS in L.A. also seem pretty cool to me (although the actual event is tragic). Social-issue research in health is pretty awesome to me as well, because I feel that only through research into those social issues can we prove those issues exist to the public,(the kind of research I'm doing now) and I'd love to work in a well-established NGO doing that, or any other corporation or government group that does the same thing...

But I am also an African American male, I know I'm hot topic right now, and my parents are very fearful of my future. They would love it, if I'd at least get a PA degree to back up my MPH so I would have a profession to fall back on. Personally, as I move further and further through college, I'm realizing the only thing I want to do is work in health policy, I kinda don't want to be a P.A., if I must be a clinician I rather go the full mile and become a doctor. But I feel there's no need to become a doctor if I don't care for the prestige or the money they make, and, rhetorically, could help more people with public health. And I've never really been law or politics inclined, I would only get a J.D. if it would add to the skill-set I need to be better at policy and research. Knowing my racial background I've tried much harder to make a solid resume to do well in graduate school and beyond, but my parents feel Public Health is one of those fields that'll frustrate you if you're a minority. I've never factored my race into the equation, I've never thought it would be a problem, but, I can't just dismiss their claims as I truly don't know if they're wrong or right. They have all these different cases of family members and friends failing after getting the degree from reputable sources and what's to say I'm not one of them. I'm sorry this is not a part of my original question, but as I continue discussing with my family on the daily basis with more and more solid plans, these reservations have started coming up. And they are getting to me. It sucks, I'm asking about this to strangers on the internet, but in reality who're you really going to ask about things like this.

To be honest, I think you probably already have the prereqs (or close to most) for something like PA school if that should ever be something you decide to pursue. You definitely don't need a bio degree to do that. If you want to do health policy I would definitely go for the health services degree. The world's a messed up place, but don't let it stop you from pursuing your dreams! You sound hard working and I am guessing you probably have done well in school-that will set you ahead of the curve no matter your skin color!

 

[IntriguedStudent]

Thanks so much guys! For all the support and banter, I would personally like to work in public health. I want to ease the health-related suffering groups and minorities of people face at the population-level due to socioeconomic discrimination and cultural habits. I'm more interested in the policy stuff, creating effective policies, testing current policies, proving policy through research, although breakthroughs such as discovering AIDS in L.A. also seem pretty cool to me (although the actual event is tragic). Social-issue research in health is pretty awesome to me as well, because I feel that only through research into those social issues can we prove those issues exist to the public,(the kind of research I'm doing now) and I'd love to work in a well-established NGO doing that, or any other corporation or government group that does the same thing...

But I am also an African American male, I know I'm hot topic right now, and my parents are very fearful of my future. They would love it, if I'd at least get a PA degree to back up my MPH so I would have a profession to fall back on. Personally, as I move further and further through college, I'm realizing the only thing I want to do is work in health policy, I kinda don't want to be a P.A., if I must be a clinician I rather go the full mile and become a doctor. But I feel there's no need to become a doctor if I don't care for the prestige or the money they make, and, rhetorically, could help more people with public health. And I've never really been law or politics inclined, I would only get a J.D. if it would add to the skill-set I need to be better at policy and research. Knowing my racial background I've tried much harder to make a solid resume to do well in graduate school and beyond, but my parents feel Public Health is one of those fields that'll frustrate you if you're a minority. I've never factored my race into the equation, I've never thought it would be a problem, but, I can't just dismiss their claims as I truly don't know if they're wrong or right. They have all these different cases of family members and friends failing after getting the degree from reputable sources and what's to say I'm not one of them. I'm sorry this is not a part of my original question, but as I continue discussing with my family on the daily basis with more and more solid plans, these reservations have started coming up. And they are getting to me. It sucks, I'm asking about this to strangers on the internet, but in reality who're you really going to ask about things like this.

Although racism is still an issue, I feel like you'll have less of an issue with it in public health (or most professional careers) than you would in other career paths. Definitely do not go PA if it's not something you want to do. Not only is the clinical training relatively useless to policy, but the pre-reqs require a lot of time. I'm sure you have already taken the classes, but keep in mind that most PA schools require 1000-1500 hours of clinical experience as a minimum to be accepted.

A JD could be useful for a career in policy, but as stated above, it requires that you take out a large amount of student loans. A career in public health may make it very difficult to pay these off.

 

[KPZ]

Thanks so much guys! For all the support and banter, I would personally like to work in public health. I want to ease the health-related suffering groups and minorities of people face at the population-level due to socioeconomic discrimination and cultural habits. I'm more interested in the policy stuff, creating effective policies, testing current policies, proving policy through research, although breakthroughs such as discovering AIDS in L.A. also seem pretty cool to me (although the actual event is tragic). Social-issue research in health is pretty awesome to me as well, because I feel that only through research into those social issues can we prove those issues exist to the public,(the kind of research I'm doing now) and I'd love to work in a well-established NGO doing that, or any other corporation or government group that does the same thing...

But I am also an African American male, I know I'm hot topic right now, and my parents are very fearful of my future. They would love it, if I'd at least get a PA degree to back up my MPH so I would have a profession to fall back on. Personally, as I move further and further through college, I'm realizing the only thing I want to do is work in health policy, I kinda don't want to be a P.A., if I must be a clinician I rather go the full mile and become a doctor. But I feel there's no need to become a doctor if I don't care for the prestige or the money they make, and, rhetorically, could help more people with public health. And I've never really been law or politics inclined, I would only get a J.D. if it would add to the skill-set I need to be better at policy and research. Knowing my racial background I've tried much harder to make a solid resume to do well in graduate school and beyond, but my parents feel Public Health is one of those fields that'll frustrate you if you're a minority. I've never factored my race into the equation, I've never thought it would be a problem, but, I can't just dismiss their claims as I truly don't know if they're wrong or right. They have all these different cases of family members and friends failing after getting the degree from reputable sources and what's to say I'm not one of them. I'm sorry this is not a part of my original question, but as I continue discussing with my family on the daily basis with more and more solid plans, these reservations have started coming up. And they are getting to me. It sucks, I'm asking about this to strangers on the internet, but in reality who're you really going to ask about things like this.

I think the MPH is exactly what you are looking for. You can start with the MPH and go on to another program if you feel it is necessary after you narrow your scope even further during the MPH. The good thing about those programs are you have an opportunity to learn about a lot of different aspects of public health and choose the path you like the most. Get good grades and do well on your GRE, keep doing what you're doing with experiential stuff, and you will get into really good MPH programs like Emory, Pitt, Columbia, Johns Hopkins, etc. Those programs will all give you excellent practicum opportunities which will lead to a job. If you decide you want to go to law school after that you'll have that option. It doesn't sound like you want to be a clinician, so don't do it! Otherwise you will be absolutely miserable throughout your training and career.

Your parents are just looking out for you. Maybe if you showed them the curriculum at some of the top programs and some of the jobs the MPHers are coming out with, they'll be more at ease. Good luck on your decisions and on your career path!

 

[Stories]

Hey, a fellow health policy nut! Awesome! I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with a lack of support; that can't be fun. I, myself, was strongly considering law school, but I decided against it for two major reasons. Firstly, the debt almost necessitates working in big law, which equates (by almost complete consensus) to endless hours with no social life and miserable work. Big law or not, almost all law graduates try to practice law (it's what law school teaches you to do). And, on that note, is the second point; law school will teach you how to memorize case law and apply fact patterns to said case law. This is an awesome but unless set of skills if you don't intend to practice law. So, don't go to law school unless that's your passion.

If you're interested in health policy, a PA is almost completely useless (in my opinion). You will learn a clinical skill set which is meant to be applied to treating patients, and as an EMT and former pre-med student, I know something about clinical training. All the degrees you're considering are professional degrees meant to impart a set of professional skills. If you don't hope to use those skills, why would you pay tens (sometimes hundreds) of thousands of dollars to acquire them?

Admittedly, I haven't faced the obstacles of race that others have, but, firstly, I would say beware of anecdotal evidence. Secondly, yes, we're all strangers, but if there is a resounding theme in everyone's advice (here and anywhere else you'll look), it's to do something with your life that will make you happy. If race is challenge you have to overcome to do that, then so be it. And, yes, I know that's easier said than done. But, if you do what you love, you will be great at it, and I strongly believe you will succeed . . . for whatever a stranger's advice is worth.

My wife works in policy research--background is in public policy (MPP). Here's what I've observed in her career options/paths--it's a tough road and the jobs tend to be concentrated in few policy/political hotbeds (like DC; we lived in DC for a number of years before recently relocating to LA). It can be rewarding, but the pay isn't great and the hours are often pretty heavy and involve many weekends.

 

[Eso233]

Can you tell me more about the tough road your wife experienced?

 

[Stories]

Can you tell me more about the tough road your wife experienced?

Mostly it's a market that is highly competitive and saturated. Particularly in DC, where everyone comes to get a job in policy-related work. When the market is full like that, salaries tend to be low (under $60k, and often under $50k with a MPP is common in DC--which is tough to do in an expensive city like DC) because each person is highly replaceable. So after graduation she worked a while as a temp and had to search for 10 months for a job she wanted to do and would be reasonably happy doing. She went to three elite schools (top 15 schools in rankings) and still found the market tough--there's an argument for over education, though, as student debt can pile up. Most of her classmates did fine finding jobs, but there are some that didn't find jobs in policy and took jobs doing other types of work (business consulting, embassy, etc.).

Of course, she didn't look for jobs in areas such as banking, which I know can be more lucrative, but I'm not sure how difficult those jobs are to get (I imagine they're competitive). I think these days, the salary needs don't always align with cost of living PLUS student debt. If either debt was lower or cost of living was cheaper, I think the modest salaries would be more do-able. My wife often says she wishes she had chosen differently for her undergrad major (political science)--even though she loved it, she was a little short sighted in her career options.

Anyway, with all that said, I think it's important to keep in mind that sometimes, career is just a career and not the most important thing in life. Sometimes, being pragmatic and majoring in something that is a good career, even if it's not a passion, is just fine. As long as your job lets you do what you want to do in life and you're not miserable at the job, I think that's completely reasonable and fine.

 

[an2592]

Anyway, with all that said, I think it's important to keep in mind that sometimes, career is just a career and not the most important thing in life. Sometimes, being pragmatic and majoring in something that is a good career, even if it's not a passion, is just fine. As long as your job lets you do what you want to do in life and you're not miserable at the job, I think that's completely reasonable and fine.

Thanks for the personal perspective. It's valuable to hear from people who're living it. Correct me if you think I'm mistaken, but I feel that the MPH is a little more versatile than the MPP. Certainly, if the job market is dry, I've always figured one could just leverage the management components of the MPH (I'm talking solely the HPM concentration here) until something opens up in policy, especially if that candidate has pre-existing health management experience. I don't mean to hijack Eso's thread, but do you think your wife would have benefited from any additional education aside from the MPP (i.e. a PhD in health policy, public policy, or economics) to really advance her career? Policy has always seemed like one of those careers that, just as often as not, has an indirect path. It seems like the most successful are often lawyers and physicians and researchers who've made a name for themselves in their respective fields and have used that status to transition into more policy-oriented roles. Again, this is a completely subjective opinion.

 

[KPZ]

You might consider Americorps after you graduate. Obviously you'll be really poor, but it leads to some interesting opportunities in those areas.

 

[JaneOakmede]

There is also health economics if you are so quantitatively inclined. I think the career prospects might not be bad there. Economists always seem to be in demand. A lot of the health econ programs are in the health policy and management departments at public health schools. Again, the most jobs are probably in DC. As Stories was saying regarding banking, I'd imagine NY might be a good place for that.

 

[Stories]

Thanks for the personal perspective. It's valuable to hear from people who're living it. Correct me if you think I'm mistaken, but I feel that the MPH is a little more versatile than the MPP. Certainly, if the job market is dry, I've always figured one could just leverage the management components of the MPH (I'm talking solely the HPM concentration here) until something opens up in policy, especially if that candidate has pre-existing health management experience. I don't mean to hijack Eso's thread, but do you think your wife would have benefited from any additional education aside from the MPP (i.e. a PhD in health policy, public policy, or economics) to really advance her career? Policy has always seemed like one of those careers that, just as often as not, has an indirect path. It seems like the most successful are often lawyers and physicians and researchers who've made a name for themselves in their respective fields and have used that status to transition into more policy-oriented roles. Again, this is a completely subjective opinion.

Hmm... you know, it's interesting in that for PhD in policy seems to be reserved for think tank scholars and professors. Outside of that, she never mentioned the PhD as really being necessary. Whereas in epidemiology, for instance, a PhD is necessary for many areas that I was interested in (research, biotech, biomedical). I've always encouraged her to look into a PhD, but she doesn't seem that interested for opportunity cost + limited career options reasons. Remember, as you move up in education, your job market narrows--you become overqualified for many jobs that are "entry" or "mid level".

As for those who make for good policy people--I'm not really sure. DC might be unique in that there's lots of qualified people. But from what we've seen in LA--there's a lot of opportunities as there aren't a lot of MPP out here. The subject matter will be very California (environment, water resources, urban planning, etc.) rather than the international and money that you see in DC (or a NY).

 

[Eso233]

Thank you for your personal account, but that's absolutely terrifying as well. I don't know how a MPH would levy against a MPP but I imagine they're in a similar boat. It was always to my knowledge that Public Health was a fast-growing and very diverse field, (or is it only in this aspect?). Its even more terrifying considering she's an awesome student as well, my perception was that being a great scholar, with great degrees/background would definitely help, but it seems that everyone has that same perception. Also, wouldn't working in california with an MPH be more tailored towards work with the California state government, or are there several NGOs on the west coast? Policy is only my first love, I have interests in Global Health, and epidemiology, as well and I can easily work in those fields until I make a name for myself. It seems epidemiology is very clear cut when it comes to being employed and working, but what about Global concentrations? Do you know anything about them? Ultimately, I would like to combine both Policy and a Global concentration together.

@JaneOakmede I don't mean to sound ignorant, but I've literally never heard of health economics until now that you've mentioned it. Can you tell me more about it? Like where they would work? Their career outlook right now? And wouldn't they need an economic background? I've googled it and looked at the actual degree, but it's application seems beyond me. I'll say it now, while I've taken a few "quantitative" courses, I'm simply not a quantitative thinker. I'm more of an artistic/abstract guy when it comes to my mental process, I'm more of the person to make the persuasive rhetoric to validate a policy from the data than the analyst. I'm a people person, not to the point of a businessman, but I can articulate and persuade somewhat, and what interested me most about policy is its actual creation of policy. Arguing, debating, through active research, discussion, evaluations, to help hundreds of people with a new policy. But still if you can tell me more.

@KPZ Oh thanks! this is a great suggestion! I originally had Americorps confused with peacecorps, which theoretically also leads to great opportunities. Doesn't Americorps have loan forgiveness, and how does it lead to opportunities in particular?

 

[JaneOakmede]

Thank you for your personal account, but that's absolutely terrifying as well. I don't know how a MPH would levy against a MPP but I imagine they're in a similar boat. It was always to my knowledge that Public Health was a fast-growing and very diverse field, (or is it only in this aspect?). Its even more terrifying considering she's an awesome student as well, my perception was that being a great scholar, with great degrees/background would definitely help, but it seems that everyone has that same perception. Also, wouldn't working in california with an MPH be more tailored towards work with the California state government, or are there several NGOs on the west coast? Policy is only my first love, I have interests in Global Health, and epidemiology, as well and I can easily work in those fields until I make a name for myself. It seems epidemiology is very clear cut when it comes to being employed and working, but what about Global concentrations? Do you know anything about them? Ultimately, I would like to combine both Policy and a Global concentration together.

@JaneOakmede I don't mean to sound ignorant, but I've literally never heard of health economics until now that you've mentioned it. Can you tell me more about it? Like where they would work? Their career outlook right now? And wouldn't they need an economic background? I've googled it and looked at the actual degree, but it's application seems beyond me. I'll say it now, while I've taken a few "quantitative" courses, I'm simply not a quantitative thinker. I'm more of an artistic/abstract guy when it comes to my mental process, I'm more of the person to make the persuasive rhetoric to validate a policy from the data than the analyst. I'm a people person, not to the point of a businessman, but I can articulate and persuade somewhat, and what interested me most about policy is its actual creation of policy. Arguing, debating, through active research, discussion, evaluations, to help hundreds of people with a new policy. But still if you can tell me more.

@KPZ Oh thanks! this is a great suggestion! I originally had Americorps confused with peacecorps, which theoretically also leads to great opportunities. Doesn't Americorps have loan forgiveness, and how does it lead to opportunities in particular?

Health policy sounds right up your alley! Health econ is definitely very quantitative so that is probably not want you want. It's the study of healthcare from an economic perspective. For instance, studying insurance markets, or decision making in healthcare.

 

[Stories]

Thank you for your personal account, but that's absolutely terrifying as well. I don't know how a MPH would levy against a MPP but I imagine they're in a similar boat. It was always to my knowledge that Public Health was a fast-growing and very diverse field, (or is it only in this aspect?). Its even more terrifying considering she's an awesome student as well, my perception was that being a great scholar, with great degrees/background would definitely help, but it seems that everyone has that same perception. Also, wouldn't working in california with an MPH be more tailored towards work with the California state government, or are there several NGOs on the west coast? Policy is only my first love, I have interests in Global Health, and epidemiology, as well and I can easily work in those fields until I make a name for myself. It seems epidemiology is very clear cut when it comes to being employed and working, but what about Global concentrations? Do you know anything about them? Ultimately, I would like to combine both Policy and a Global concentration together.

I think everyone has the belief that being a great student and attending great schools makes it easy to find a job--but I think the fact is that finding a job in a desirable city is much harder than just finding a job (anywhere). As we get older, we all have desires and wants, and those things become more important to us over time--the trick is finding a market that can use your skills and is hiring. But sometimes, timing doesn't always match up, and you've also got competition. Some folks get luckier than others, but job hunting in general is not an easy thing for most people. I think timing and luck plays a big role, but networking and being proactive also help immensely in the job hunt.

There's a good number of research institutions in SoCal, and that's where many of my epidemology friends have ended up, but most of my friends kind of have scattered careers here. Lots of programmers, producers (hollywood), government, physicians, and then of course, biotech (where I work--but is actually a pretty tiny presence in SoCal that's outside of San Diego where lots of start-ups are home).