What vet schools require Biochemistry II?

[alpaperart]

I know Ohio State and Michigan do.

I'm currently in the class right now and I'm honestly having such a hard time... the professor is actually really terrible and I'm not learning anything. I'm doing well on the quizzes but that's just because it's pure memorization. I know a bad professor isn't an excuse for anything, but this guy is awful. He teaches ONLY using the blackboard and you can barely follow what he's saying and what he's writing down. We have a textbook, but for each chapter he has on the syllabus, he really only goes over 25% of the material for each chapter. He also gets stuff wrong. I don't want to say frequently, but it does happen more than it should.

He scheduled 2 midterms 1 week apart, before spring break, and he has us taking 2 finals less than 1 week apart, one of which is a qualifying exam and includes Biochem I material and he said most people fail, and that exam is still counting heavily into our final grade. I never really like talking bad about a professor, because he seems like a nice guy, I just can't with his teaching style...

I have a really good GPA, I've worked hard in college, and I don't want it to effect my GPA. Especially if I'm not really learning anything. I really enjoyed Orgo and I expected that I would enjoy Biochem too. Both Biochem courses are at an adjacent university to the one I go to, and both professors were pretty bad, but this one especially.

It's my last semester because I'm graduating in May and I want to enjoy it as much as possible and this class is making it impossible to do so.

I really want to drop this course... would it look bad if I dropped the course 2 months in?

Sorry this turned out longer than I had expected. If you have any advice for me, or just anything, I would really appreciate it!

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[RS1]

I would say you need to call the schools you're planning on applying to. Only way to know for sure.

But, I did not take two semesters of biochem. My university offered the two-semester course, or, a one-semester-with-a-lab "principles of biochem" course. I called the vet schools I was interested in and they all said that they WOULD accept the one-semester, 4 credit, "principles" class, but WOULD NOT accept one semester of a two-semester course. So if you're enrolled in the two-semester version and are partway through the second semester, my personal advice would be to just stick it out at this point.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

What RS1 said. I'm pretty sure all vet schools technically require biochem
II, but most people end up taking the one semester version of the two semester sequence. So if you do drop it, you'll either have to retake it, or find the one-semester version (biochem I and II in one semester).

That testing schedule sounds like complete crap....idk how you can schedule two midterms back to back without a lot of new material to put on the second exam. But hey, neither of us are profs. There's nothing you can do about that. As for dropping, if you truly think you will fail or do very poorly, it might be worth considering....it depends on if the schools you've picked average course attempts or pick the most recent. Only you can make that decision.

Is there any way you can seek tutoring, meet with the professor, etc.? Also, how many credits do you have? Biochem is usually a courde taken later in undergrad....if you have a lot of credits already, your GPA won't be drastically damaged. Your science GPA might take a harder hit though.

 

[WillowLeaf]

Are you concerned you'll fail, or concerned that you'll get a B or C? If you're worried about a B or C, try calculating your various GPAs to see how much it really will drop them. It might not affect your app too much if you're doing well otherwise.

I know some people have gotten in with W's (I'm assuming that's what you would have on your transcript if you dropped it late in the term, is that correct?), but I'm not sure if those W's were usually in non-prereqs or what. I could see it looking not-so-good if you have a W in a pre-req and then don't take it a different term or anything. If you had a W this term, and took it somewhere else over the summer or next fall, maybe that would look a little better. But I think if you can do okay this term and likely pass, it would be best to stick with it.

If you're not learning well from the lectures, have you tried getting info from outside sources? Some schools have biology or chemistry tutoring centers. Some of my undergrad classmates really liked Khan Academy and other sources when they didn't understand a professor's teaching style.

Is the problem with the lectures that they're confusing, or too fast, or what? Would the professor allow you to record the lecture on your computer or phone or something, so you could rewatch the lecture later and catch things you missed? Or at least go back and see which parts of the textbook chapters are covered so you know where to focus studying in the book?

Good luck!

 

[alpaperart]

Thanks for the replies and advice! I looked at the Association of American Veterinary Medical Colleges prereq pdf. It's from 2013, but most of the schools I looked into when I searched their website don't require Biochem II. I have a feeling I'm missing some though.

I know Cornell doesn't require Biochem II, even though it's preferred.

I'm thinking about asking the professor if he could possible move the exam to the week after spring break. I don't know how that'll go, but I think it's worth a try. He'll be able to put more material on the exam, so I think that would be a plus for him.

Honestly, I don't know. I am concerned that I'll fail. While I've survived other professors like him, and gotten A's, this professor is particularly ridiculous so I'm really not sure if I'll fail, if I'll get a C, or a B.

I would be dropping the class before the academic drop deadline, which is March 17th, so I don't think it should show on my transcript at all, official or non-official. So it wouldn't be a withdrawal (W) because schools won't know that I attempted it and dropped it, because that would only be the case if I dropped the course beyond the academic drop deadline, into the withdrawal period.

Because I switched to prevet from premed the summer before my senior year of college I still have some courses that I need to take. I still need to take animal nutrition, statistics, and for some select schools, public speaking. So... my plan is to take those at Fordham University (a different university than the one I'm currently attending) or another institution during my year, possibly 2 years off, while I also gain more experience. So... if I did want to apply to Ohio State or Michigan, then I would take Biochem II at Fordham.

I have 4 exams and 4 quizzes coming up in the next two weeks before spring break, and it's such a struggle. All upper division science. I will look into Khan Academy though, as I've heard a lot of good things about it, and I found a Biochem book that I think I could also use to help me study...

 

[Klminner11]

Thanks for the replies and advice! I looked at the Association of American Veterinary Medical Colleges prereq pdf. It's from 2013, but most of the schools I looked into when I searched their website don't require Biochem II. I have a feeling I'm missing some though.

I know Cornell doesn't require Biochem II, even though it's preferred.

I'm thinking about asking the professor if he could possible move the exam to the week after spring break. I don't know how that'll go, but I think it's worth a try. He'll be able to put more material on the exam, so I think that would be a plus for him.

Honestly, I don't know. I am concerned that I'll fail. While I've survived other professors like him, and gotten A's, this professor is particularly ridiculous so I'm really not sure if I'll fail, if I'll get a C, or a B.

I would be dropping the class before the academic drop deadline, which is March 17th, so I don't think it should show on my transcript at all, official or non-official. So it wouldn't be a withdrawal (W) because schools won't know that I attempted it and dropped it, because that would only be the case if I dropped the course beyond the academic drop deadline, into the withdrawal period.

Because I switched to prevet from premed the summer before my senior year of college I still have some courses that I need to take. I still need to take animal nutrition, statistics, and for some select schools, public speaking. So... my plan is to take those at Fordham University (a different university than the one I'm currently attending) or another institution during my year, possibly 2 years off, while I also gain more experience. So... if I did want to apply to Ohio State or Michigan, then I would take Biochem II at Fordham.

I have 4 exams and 4 quizzes coming up in the next two weeks before spring break, and it's such a struggle. All upper division science. I will look into Khan Academy though, as I've heard a lot of good things about it, and I found a Biochem book that I think I could also use to help me study...

Moof University on YouTube is excellent for Biochem!!

 

[WillowLeaf]

Oh, that is a different situation if it wouldn't show up on your transcript. Have you taken any of this professor's exams yet? Would you have time to take the first midterm and hopefully get your grade back before the academic drop deadline? That would be my recommendation if the timing works out... Then if you wind up with a solid grade, stick with it. If you study really well, use other resources and feel like you can handle the subject but you fail the test, consider dropping it and taking it somewhere else. It would still be a good idea to ask schools you're interested in whether there would be a problem with biochem 2 being at a different school than biochem 1 (maybe it would be a problem because if the course is organized differently you might skip some topics when switching schools).

What exactly is the "qualifying exam"? It concerns me if the professor says most people fail a major exam.

 

[Gwenevre]

I didn't think Ohio needed Biochem 2? I applied with only one Biochem course and my application was accepted/completed.

 

[Felixor90]

I didn't think Ohio needed Biochem 2? I applied with only one Biochem course and my application was accepted/completed.

You probably took general biochem, which is considered the equivalent of having taken Biochem I & II. OSU takes this, but if your school splits it into 2 courses, you have to take both.

 

[Pugsforlove2014]

Both MSU and OSU from my experience accepted my 'Basic Biochemistry" which was a course at MSU, 4 credits and 400 level. I know Ohio was a little more finicky though.

 

[alpaperart]

Oh, that is a different situation if it wouldn't show up on your transcript. Have you taken any of this professor's exams yet? Would you have time to take the first midterm and hopefully get your grade back before the academic drop deadline? That would be my recommendation if the timing works out... Then if you wind up with a solid grade, stick with it. If you study really well, use other resources and feel like you can handle the subject but you fail the test, consider dropping it and taking it somewhere else. It would still be a good idea to ask schools you're interested in whether there would be a problem with biochem 2 being at a different school than biochem 1 (maybe it would be a problem because if the course is organized differently you might skip some topics when switching schools).

What exactly is the "qualifying exam"? It concerns me if the professor says most people fail a major exam.

It depends on how long it takes him to grade the first midterm. I'm not sure if he'll have it graded by the end of the week or the beginning of the following week. He took a long time to even grade the first homework and quiz.

I was planning on seeing how the midterm went and then deciding. But I don't want to push it, especially since the second midterm is a week later. And then the deadline is a little over a week later.

Maybe I'll take the first midterm, then ask him to sign the Academic Drop Form, but not hand it in for a week, to see if I get my grad back by then and see how I did.

I would be happier to just drop the course now though so I can spend more time on studying subjects I actually care about, A&P and neuroscience...

I would like to find a general Biochem course, that isn't split into 2 semesters. I would definitely take that if I could find where it's offered! If anyone knows any schools in New York, or any surrounding states, I'd love to hear them!

As for the qualifying exam, I'm not really sure what it is... It's the ACS qualifying exam, I just remember him saying it's very hard and contains material from semester 1 and 2. I might ask him more about it the next class.

 

[alpaperart]

I'm still figuring it out, but I think the qualifying exam may be for graduate students. The class I'm taking is graduate level. A lot of undergraduates are in the class though, so I don't understand why we would have to take it as well since we are not going for a PhD in Biochemistry.

 

[WillowLeaf]

It depends on how long it takes him to grade the first midterm. I'm not sure if he'll have it graded by the end of the week or the beginning of the following week. He took a long time to even grade the first homework and quiz.

I was planning on seeing how the midterm went and then deciding. But I don't want to push it, especially since the second midterm is a week later. And then the deadline is a little over a week later.

Maybe I'll take the first midterm, then ask him to sign the Academic Drop Form, but not hand it in for a week, to see if I get my grad back by then and see how I did.

I would be happier to just drop the course now though so I can spend more time on studying subjects I actually care about, A&P and neuroscience...

I would like to find a general Biochem course, that isn't split into 2 semesters. I would definitely take that if I could find where it's offered! If anyone knows any schools in New York, or any surrounding states, I'd love to hear them!

As for the qualifying exam, I'm not really sure what it is... It's the ACS qualifying exam, I just remember him saying it's very hard and contains material from semester 1 and 2. I might ask him more about it the next class.

Oh yeah, that sounds like the exam they had us take in my ochem class (only we took the ACS ochem test, obviously). It's supposed to be a more standardized national exam, I think. My ochem teacher liked it because there were a lot of premeds in our class and he didn't want to only use his own final in case that was easier or harder than most other ochem courses. His classes generally scored pretty well on that exam, though, and it really wasn't any harder than his other exams. I can see it being pretty tough if your professor's exams are really different than the ACS exam though.

Try looking for the ACS study guide book. Our professor recommended one for the ochem exam we took. I never used it because I really liked my professor's teaching style, but classmates said it was helpful.

You would probably lose some tuition money if you drop it (unless your school gives refunds that late), but if that's not a problem I don't think it's a big deal to put off taking that class to a different term. Vet schools won't see it if your transcript doesn't list it. If you do delay it, just be sure you can fix whatever the issue is by the time you do take it. There could be problems besides not getting the teaching style, so it would be good to be prepared to possibly need tutoring or extra resources or using office hours or whatever. Also, in vet school you will most likely have some professors whose teaching style doesn't work for you, so it's good to know how to work around that by using other resources and asking for extra help from the professor and stuff.

 

[alpaperart]

I wouldn't lose any tuition money because I didn't go above 19 credits, as that's what my tuition pays for. I remember being told that when I dropped a psych course the semester I tried taking 6 classes. If I drop Biochem, I would actually be at 13 credits. I've never had a semester like that. With just 3 major courses. I've taken 5 courses per semester since I started college. I'm wondering if having 5 courses every semester except for my final one, only with 3, will look bad to admissions?

I really would like to go to Tufts or Cornell and take my remaining prevet requirements there during my year or 2 after graduating from college. I would have 4 courses to take if I dropped Biochem this semester: Nutrition, Statistics, Public Speaking (maybe), and Biochem. I wouldn't enroll in either, but would just sign up for courses as I was already an undergraduate at a different institution? I don't know, I'm still trying to figure that out.

I know someone else who dropped Biochem II, well a number of people, but she's also prevet. And I've had a number of teachers who were terrible at teaching and I adapted and survived their classes. And I've gone to office hours for most of my professors, as well as gotten tutoring in calculus and physics. It's just this time it's pretty bad. I don't want all this stress my final semester. I'm already stressed enough over the fact I'm not going directly to another academic institution after graduating from college and having to figure what I'm going to do during my gap year(s). I'd really like to just enjoy my last semester in college, and be able to work on gaining a significant amount of animal and vet experience during the semester since I switched from premed to prevet last summer and don't really have much. I'm interning at a spay and neuter clinic right now which I'm really enjoying.

I don't know. This is a pretty huge decision, or maybe I'm just making a bigger deal of it than I need to. I should make the decisions soon though, within the next 2 days, because if I don't have Biochem, then I can worry about my 3 other quizzes and 2 other exams coming up. Which are for classes that are really important.

Thank you everyone for all the advice and patience in my slow and probably distorted decision-making process.

 

[MustangJumperPony]

I wouldn't lose any tuition money because I didn't go above 19 credits, as that's what my tuition pays for. I remember being told that when I dropped a psych course the semester I tried taking 6 classes. If I drop Biochem, I would actually be at 13 credits. I've never had a semester like that. With just 3 major courses. I've taken 5 courses per semester since I started college. I'm wondering if having 5 courses every semester except for my final one, only with 3, will look bad to admissions?

It shouldn't matter if you take a lighter load your last semester. My friends and I (all of us got into vet schools) all took pretty standard/heavy credit loads throughout college and decided we wanted an easy semester for our last semester of college. We are all taking 12-13 credits this semester. Your situation is a little bit different since you haven't applied yet, but it looks like you've taken a heavy load every other semester, so it should not hurt you.

I know someone else who dropped Biochem II, well a number of people, but she's also prevet. And I've had a number of teachers who were terrible at teaching and I adapted and survived their classes. And I've gone to office hours for most of my professors, as well as gotten tutoring in calculus and physics. It's just this time it's pretty bad. I don't want all this stress my final semester. I'm already stressed enough over the fact I'm not going directly to another academic institution after graduating from college and having to figure what I'm going to do during my gap year(s). I'd really like to just enjoy my last semester in college, and be able to work on gaining a significant amount of animal and vet experience during the semester since I switched from premed to prevet last summer and don't really have much. I'm interning at a spay and neuter clinic right now which I'm really enjoying.

Minimize your stress! Since this course won't even show up on your transcript, withdrawing sounds like it can only help you at this point. If you are that stressed about it, it isn't worth suffering through the class when you don't absolutely need to take it right now. You might not need to take biochem again at all, so take the time now to focus on your other courses and on figuring out whether or not you actually need to take another biochem course. (I ended up being fine taking one 3 credit 500 level course, no lab).

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Both MSU and OSU from my experience accepted my 'Basic Biochemistry" which was a course at MSU, 4 credits and 400 level. I know Ohio was a little more finicky though.

Yeah, that lovely course.

OP: this course Pugs is talking about is also offered online should you need other biochem options. It is Biochem I and II in one semester, and I have had no issues applying to schools with it!

 

[alpaperart]

Just realized Purdue also requires it. With there being not that many vet schools I probably will eventually take it since 3 schools near my home (by near I mean within 4 states lol) do require it. But I think I would rather take it later instead of now, so I can minimize my stress during my last semester in college, focus more on researching and making plans for my near future (after graduation), doing well in the courses that I absolutely need to graduate, gaining more vet and animal experience, and enjoying my last semester!

 

[alpaperart]

Yeah, that lovely course.

OP: this course Pugs is talking about is also offered online should you need other biochem options. It is Biochem I and II in one semester, and I have had no issues applying to schools with it!

How is the online class structured? I've never taken an online course before.

 

[alpaperart]

It shouldn't matter if you take a lighter load your last semester. My friends and I (all of us got into vet schools) all took pretty standard/heavy credit loads throughout college and decided we wanted an easy semester for our last semester of college. We are all taking 12-13 credits this semester. Your situation is a little bit different since you haven't applied yet, but it looks like you've taken a heavy load every other semester, so it should not hurt you.

Minimize your stress! Since this course won't even show up on your transcript, withdrawing sounds like it can only help you at this point. If you are that stressed about it, it isn't worth suffering through the class when you don't absolutely need to take it right now. You might not need to take biochem again at all, so take the time now to focus on your other courses and on figuring out whether or not you actually need to take another biochem course. (I ended up being fine taking one 3 credit 500 level course, no lab).

Thank you! Reading that makes me feel better about deciding to drop the course. I really don't like dropping courses and I probably could do okay in this course but it would be very stressful with everything else I have to do and the things I need to figure out and I think I would enjoy my last semester much more if I didn't have this course to worry about. Where are you planning on attending vet? (=

 

[MustangJumperPony]

Thank you! Reading that makes me feel better about deciding to drop the course. I really don't like dropping courses and I probably could do okay in this course but it would be very stressful with everything else I have to do and the things I need to figure out and I think I would enjoy my last semester much more if I didn't have this course to worry about. Where are you planning on attending vet? (=

You'll feel so much better, especially since you have an opportunity to take it again if needed. After making a couple semesters unnecessarily difficult for myself, I dropped a course I didn't need, and I'm definitely appreciating an easier semester! I'm still waiting to hear back from a couple schools, but probably Missouri!

 

[pinkpuppy9]

How is the online class structured? I've never taken an online course before.

It's not at your own pace. The tests are at certain times in the semester. You either take them in person on campus or at a proctored location near you. Message me if you have any other questions!

 

[WillowLeaf]

I agree with everyone else, it sounds like it would be not at all a problem to drop it. It sounds like your course load is fine. You've shown that you can handle a heavy load in previous terms. I had a term or two where I dropped below full time for various reasons (mostly scheduling issues, and I didn't want to pay for unnecessary classes just to fill time), and I had no problems when applying, because the admission committees could see plenty of successful heavier terms as well.

Enjoy your last term!

 

[alpaperart]

Thanks WillowLeaf! And thanks to everyone for all the advice! I appreciate it a lot! I'm definitely going to take Biochem later, probably a 4-credit one (even though I've already taken Biochem I) but Cornell offers a 4-credit Biochem course and I'd like to that! I'd like to take my other prereqs there as well. (= If anyone has taken this course or knows of it I'd love to hear about it!

I'm still figuring my way through the prevet requirements, not course ones as much as experience ones. Could I possibly PM you guys with questions since you've all been through the process?

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I'm sure anyone, including myself, would be happy to help you via PM or via the threads!

 

[WillowLeaf]

Yep, what pinkpuppy said. If you post things on the threads, you can get more people's input, plus then those discussions are public for other pre-vets to see and learn from. But PM is nice if you want to ask questions but don't want them to be public for whatever reason, or if you want answers from a specific person about something.

 

[alpaperart]

Yeah I'll definitely keep posting on these threads! You'll probably see more around pretty often. haha

But yeah, there's actually been a hiccup in my plans to drop it. It said March 17th was the date to withdraw without a penalty but they said it'll show as a W, so I don't know how that's /not/ a penalty. Thankfully, I can petition to drop it without showing it on my transcript. I've worked hard my entire college career and I think that will say something and hopefully convince them to let me drop it. Just need to get a lot signatures...

 

[WildZoo]

Yeah I'll definitely keep posting on these threads! You'll probably see more around pretty often. haha

But yeah, there's actually been a hiccup in my plans to drop it. It said March 17th was the date to withdraw without a penalty but they said it'll show as a W, so I don't know how that's /not/ a penalty. Thankfully, I can petition to drop it without showing it on my transcript. I've worked hard my entire college career and I think that will say something and hopefully convince them to let me drop it. Just need to get a lot signatures...

"Without a penalty" probably means there is no effect on your gpa. In the grand scheme of things, one withdrawal will not affect you if you can explain it as you have here (taking the time to focus on other classes, etc) and the rest of your academics are strong, especially if you end up taking another Biochem course and doing well anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much if the petition doesn't work out.

 

[alpaperart]

Thanks for the reassurance. I had a panic attack after I got off the phone with them and immediately went to their office. They're deadlines are very different than the college I attend for my degree. Fortunately I was able to get all the signatures this morning (must have walked 3 miles today already!) that I needed and have submitted the form for review, and they said it usually takes about 24 hours to make a decision. So hopefully I'll know by the end of tomorrow!