What's negative about a Army scholarship!

[hongspruce]

I am considering the scholarship, have gotten the physical, and filled out their application. However, I can't get a straight answer as to the negatives.

They advertise versatility, prestige, location, etc... but how true is it that you will be able specialize in what you want (say interventional radiology, derm or some other competitive spec), how hard is it to get out, etc...?

In otherwords, I know tons about the positives, but nothing about the negatives.

Can someone currently in the program, post program and in residency, give the lowdown on the negatives of this indentured servitude?

Please list it out:
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3.
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[Heeed!]

I've been in the AF for 12 years and am on the AF HPSP scholarship. I can speak to the downside of military life in general, if that would help.

1. Your life is not yours. The military owns you and what happens to you is based on the needs of the military. You deploy when you're told to deploy. You PCS (move) when you're told to move. And there's no way out of it because the military wants years of your life instead of money.

2. The needs of the military also dictate what specialty you might be able to go into. If they don't need IRs, derms, etc. the year you throw your hat in the mix, you don't get to choose from those specialties.

There are a lot of positives, which, apparently, you already know about. The AF matches 97% of applicants to their FIRST choice of specialty. I don't know about the match rate for the Army.

It all comes down to what's important to you.

 

[s42brown]

I just wanted to respond to the previous post. From what I have found on the military websites about the match is that 86% of graduates get placed in a military residency. 83% in there first choice of location and 100% in there specialty. You may think that 100% is to good to be true, however those who do not match into their desired field are sent out to seek civilian training. As a previous poster stated, you may be matched into a transitional year that is tracked for that particular specialty. For example, I feel that ortho is where I'll end up so when I apply for the military match I will have to list 5 training location for ortho in the military. Lucky for me the Army has six training sites for ortho. Some of the ortho sites are PGY1 and some start at PGY2 which means I will have to do a transitional year at that location and then start my residency the following year. In additon, you will see that some places say that if you match into their transitional year it does not gaurantee that you will continue in their program. If you think about it they are just covering their own ausses but why would you invest the time in training someone for a year and then not continue to train them to become a practicing physician. I personally believe that the biggest plus for the army is that they don't use GMO's(general medical officers) which means you are no good to them until you are trained in a particular field. This assures that you will finish your residency through them in a timely manner. In closing, remember that there are only about 300 graduating docs that will be competing for army residencies, including USUHS graduates. This is not a very big pool when considering the vast amount of training positions the army has to offer. EX, 2001 17 people chose to apply for ortho in the army. The army selected ALL of those 17 people into ortho and still had some slots left over.


P.S. and no I am not a recruiter

 

[hsouth]

hongspruce - I'm kind of in the same boat. I keep wavering back and forth about the military scholarhips. As an officer how likely and how often may I get moved? (Currently I'm thinking pediatrics) What are my chances of being sent somewhere dangerous? Will I separated from my husband for long periods of time? What are differences between Army and AF? Pros and cons about each? Does AF have GMO's? What are my chances of matching in peds? Can someone explain the transitional year thing? How hard is it to get out? In the Army are you req'd to be in inactive reserve for 4 years after your repayment?
Really, I could go on and on. I've read most of the posts here and also the website of the guy who is in AF HPSP. I still feel like I'm lacking info. No one in my family has ever been in the military (well, my grandfather was, but that was like 50 years ago) so I don't know much about Army vs AF, what my every day life would be like etc. Help!
TIA
~H

 

[texdrake]

More answers

I'm kind of in the same boat. I keep wavering back and forth about the military scholarhips. As an officer how likely and how often may I get moved? (Currently I'm thinking pediatrics) What are my chances of being sent somewhere dangerous? Will I separated from my husband for long periods of time? What are differences between Army and AF? Pros and cons about each? Does AF have GMO's? What are my chances of matching in peds? Can someone explain the transitional year thing? How hard is it to get out? In the Army are you req'd to be in inactive reserve for 4 years after your repayment?

Chances are you are in for 4 years, I don't think it is likely that you would move more than twice...

Dangerous.....well depends, everything is a gamble...hell going to school in some of the places these medical schools are located is down right dangerous...there is always a possibility

Your husband would be able to move with you where ever you go unless you are being moved for war/peace keeping etc.... If they transfer you to another area you get to move the whole famn damily.

Army or AF? Your preference. I like the air force uni's just a tad more (although if army went back to kacki shirts I would be thrilled). They army has a ton more scholarships and more residency spots and availability, supposedly in the AF you have a better chance of getting what you want though do to the limited number of applicants.

Transitional year is an "internship". All residencies whether public or private have them, its just many integrate them into the residency. For instance an FP residency is actually an internship plus 2 years of residency but most just list it as 3 years. Difference is that in the military the "internship" isn't always linked to the residency (you could do the 1 year and then go do a public sector residency).

Getting out.... Not easy. You could claim differences, get dishonorably discharged (no political future, no govt. jobs...including public hospitals a lot of times) and then have to pay back 1.5 or 2 times the value of the scholarship ($250,000). You could shoot off your big toe, but chances are the military will conclude that you can still "doctor" with nine toes. Its not easy but it can be done

All branches of the military...regardless of what type or reason (HPSP, ROTC, enlisted, etc..) sign people for only 8 year commitments, except the coast guard I believe). Now your contract may only be for so many years active....but the remainder is as IRR. So joe blow off the street that joins the army for 4 years actually signs a contract for 4 active years and 4 IRR, just as you would serve 4 years for HPSP commitment and 4 years IRR. IRR is only called to duty in times of war or great national need (i.e.... I believe they were put on alert after Sept. 11th, but never called on).

Check out this site for more info: Its AF but its good stuff.... http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html

 

[hsouth]

Thanks! I really appreciate all the info. Just to let you know, I mean "getting out" as in after you serve your years are you just out? If I make this committment I wouldn't back out of it. I just don't know if I want to make military a career. Who knows though at this point. Thanks again! Anyone else's insight is always appreciated!!

~H

 

[bobbyseal]

Here's one bad thing about the Army.

Lubbock, TX.

 

[edmadison]

Originally posted by bobbyseal
Here's one bad thing about the Army.

Lubbock, TX.

Here's a few more: Ft Sill, Ft Polk...

I wanted to respond to a bunch a posts, I guess I'll do it in one big post. First, As of 2003, ortho is a 5 year straight through residency. The only caveat to that is that there is one "alternate" at BAMC who will fill a PGY-2 slot if one opens up. It is not uncommon for surg residents to switch to Rads or Aneths. If the alternate doesn't get picked up, he or she will do a GMO and is then will have a PGY-2 slot created after the GMO if one is not available. As of 2003, the only way to do ortho anywhere is to a dedicated ortho internship. The AAOS changed the rules to require this starting with this years intern class (at least this is what I am told).

Peds is also a straight through residency. Three years and you are done. If you are interested in fellowship, it is likely you will have to do some or all of your payback before you can go onto to fellowship. Also, the army uses attending Peds docs as GMOs. Thus, if there is a conflict, you get to go and be a clinic/ed doc somewhere. This happens even to sub specialist. At BAMC/Wilford Hall one of the HEME-ONC attendings got to go play doc-in-the-box in the desert rather than what he was trained for.

With regards to reserves, all contracts for HPSP are seven years. What you don't do in Active duty you make up in IRR and can be called up.

The match rate statistics are skewed. When I signed up, the Army cited grate number 95% get first or second choice of location (or something like that). What they don't tell you unless you specifically ask the right person is that the match rate for surg specialties is something like 50% for your first choices. You should also know that the Army match doesn't quite work like the civilian match. I cannot elaborate on this, but it is set up to maximize matching people at their first choice and there is a disincentive to listing longer shot programs first. The stats are also very strange because they very from year to year. 2001 was an aboration for ortho -- did they show you any other year's data? This year, they are looking at 40 applicants for 24 slots in peds.

Finally on other disadvantages, think of these:

1) many civilians question the competance of army docs (could affect future jobs)

2) you can get scape goated for mistakes of others, because in the military someone has to take the fall.

3) you may be able to match in a better program in the civilian world than you will in the military.

4) working in the military has been likened to working in a very bad HMO.

There are others, but they slip my mind.

Lt. Ed

 

[hongspruce]

Originally posted by edmadison
I cannot elaborate on this, but it is set up to maximize matching people at their first choice and there is a disincentive to listing longer shot programs first.

Why can't you elaborate on this? Don't you get to choose any site you want. For example, if there was no military residency for your specialty of interest, wouldn't you have to match with a civilian residency somewhere? Is it not the case that you would be allowed to choose from either military or civilian residencies?

When I was looking at residencies for diagnostic radiology, I noticed they did not provide training for it and i would have to match with a civilian residency. Then I would just owe for the four years that the HPSP paid for. Is this not true?

 

[pbp4]

assignments- most people feel you have little imput in your future assignment and the vast majority of military docs are frustrusted with the process. in addition as some have mentioned there are some locations that are not desirable. some places you will not have good opportunities to practice real medicine- your first years in practice are as important as your residency so this is a big one. last year some people did not find out where they were going until june- they had to report in july (this could have a large impact on a spouse-not to mention nerves)

match rate- speciality chioce numbers do not matter- it may be very close to 100% but some people, when the time comes will change their speciality rather than go unmatched and have to do their time as GMOs. we currently have a EM resident who could not get an EM spot when he graduated and instead did his payback as a GMO in the army. he is now in our cilivain program after 4 years in. peds will not be a problem- however in non-competitive residencies-you could almost certainly get into a better non-military program.

you will be deployed- that may be dangerous but not so much. it will last 4-6 months at a time. we are at war now so count on the 6 month option. in a 4 year payback- this will most likely be 2 deployments. sure, you could get away with none but you could also get 3 deployments- peds probably less but many a first year med student has changed from peds to EM or Ortho by fourth year.

anyway that is enough for now- i do not want to sound snti-military cause i am not but there are tons of things no one tells you while the bills are being paid. there are many postives but you should know after the checks are cashed you will pay with time and loss of control. there are no free rides but it is a great way to serve your country!

-p

 

[idq1i]

Originally posted by edmadison
Finally on other disadvantages, think of these:

1) many civilians question the competance of army docs (could affect future jobs)

..................................

Is that true? To what extent?

 

[cdreed]

Thanks! I really appreciate all the info. Just to let you know, I mean "getting out" as in after you serve your years are you just out? If I make this committment I wouldn't back out of it. I just don't know if I want to make military a career. Who knows though at this point. Thanks again! Anyone else's insight is always appreciated!!



Hi! In response to this question...

The Armed Forces has a process called "Stop Loss." This actually means that if you are due to be separated but the service still requires your expertise in a particular field, they may actually prevent you from leaving. They will relinquish you when you have a replacement or the job function is no longer necessary. I served four years active duty in the AF prior to taking the HPSP to attend school, and I only saw stop loss implemented after Sept 11 and during the Iraq war.

The military is not for everyone. Although in my opinion it is a wonderful way of life. I was nervous before I joined, but I never reqret that I took the plunge. My best advice is to speak to as many non-recruiter active duty personnel as you can to make the most informed decision that you can. I will caution, however, that if you are unwilling or unable to sacrifice some personal freedoms for the needs of the greater good, then the military is probably not the right decision for you.

Hope this helps.

Cyndi