What's the pace of military dentistry like?

[akaopua]

Hi,

I just took my DAT (scores in sig) and am pretty confident I'd be competitive for the HPSP scholarship and am considering taking it up and applying to UoP so I can be done and debt-free in 6 years.

My father is a general dentist, pretty successful. Owns his own $2M+ practice. He's convinced that I'd do better just going to a cheap school like UNLV or Texas and then working with him because he could get me to a place where I can be really advanced and efficient clinically.

His main concern is that army and public health (he did a 4 yr Native Hawaiian health scholarship year-for-year) don't get you ready clinically to be a really efficient producer. He felt like his classmates that just took the debt had a leg up bc while he was working lackadaisically at the community health center, they were working on building their own practices and developing their skills so that they could keep up with the pace of private dentistry.

I'm married with a kid and so staying with my family is important. What is the pace of military dentistry like vs the pace of private practice? Is there anyway I could particularly work on my clinical skills?

I think UoP + HPSP makes total sense but he really is advising me against it. What is your take on his concerns?

Thank you (and I mean no disrespect to any of you all out there, just trying to make a more informed decision)!

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[Screwtape]

My vote: listen to your father.

 

[FutureDent020]

Just a heads up. If you agree to the HPSP with sign on bonus (20 K) you will still require 4 year active duty obligation even though UoP is only 3 years. But you can do a 3 year HPSP without the bonus. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Military dentistry varies A LOT. You can go from one billet where you are running basically a private practice, doing all your own surgery, Endo and restorative, to a big clinic where you end up just doing exams for a year. So you may love one billet and absolutely hate the other.

If you want to stay with your family I would advise against the Navy. Air Force and Army have more shoreside/ statesid billets, but a lot are in the middle of nowhere. But at least you’ll be with your family.

 

[LFA20]

Hi,

I just took my DAT (scores in sig) and am pretty confident I'd be competitive for the HPSP scholarship and am considering taking it up and applying to UoP so I can be done and debt-free in 6 years.

My father is a general dentist, pretty successful. Owns his own $2M+ practice. He's convinced that I'd do better just going to a cheap school like UNLV or Texas and then working with him because he could get me to a place where I can be really advanced and efficient clinically.

His main concern is that army and public health (he did a 4 yr Native Hawaiian health scholarship year-for-year) don't get you ready clinically to be a really efficient producer. He felt like his classmates that just took the debt had a leg up bc while he was working lackadaisically at the community health center, they were working on building their own practices and developing their skills so that they could keep up with the pace of private dentistry.

I'm married with a kid and so staying with my family is important. What is the pace of military dentistry like vs the pace of private practice? Is there anyway I could particularly work on my clinical skills?

I think UoP + HPSP makes total sense but he really is advising me against it. What is your take on his concerns?

Thank you (and I mean no disrespect to any of you all out there, just trying to make a more informed decision)!

If you decide not to the hpsp route will your father fund your education? Does he know that school costs upwards of 500k nowadays? That is a game changer. You are not guaranteed a spot in Texas or any other cheap school or even HPSP with good stats. I’d still apply broadly and to all branches of military if I were you.

Your experience in the military will be variable depending on your command. It’s up to you to want to use the resources or not. If you want to just show up for work and go home you can certainly do that. However there are plenty of specialists you can learn from. Be curious, ask lots of questions. Ask to do procedures that you find interesting.

There are many currently successful dentists who did the military route. Trust me that isn’t something you should worry about. Military commitment is only 4 years. You have lots of years left after your payback to learn about PP.

In regards to staying with family that is a decision you have to make. It’s very possible that you may get attached to a ship in your operations tour and you could be deployed to the ocean for 6 months at a time. You have to come in expecting the worse case scenario. However I know a bunch of people who got shore based locations with the marines and don’t deploy.

Nowadays financial freedom from is HUGE in my opinion...

 

[endoaccess]

If you are a hard charger, set on private practice, have location decided, ready to go and commit to practice ownership, he is right. HPSP will put you behind. Even if your school is expensive. When you get out of the military, you are back at ground zero.

I did HPSP and am in PP now. HPSP has its merits. But you def develop lazy habits. You will only develop basic skills. I did more then most, and in hindsight it was still not much. I don't care what any military dentist tells you, they are completely clueless about private practice.

Most people are not ready to go 100% on practice ownership right out of school, so its a great option for them. If you actually want to be in the military, then go for it. Not everything is about money.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I know I’ve already brought it up, but the GI Bill can really put the HPSP over the top if you end up specializing afterwards. UNLV’s ortho program, for example, charges $200,000 in tuition. GI Bill would cover that in full (it’s a state school), plus provide you with a $1,600/month (based on Las Vegas BAH) tax free living stipend. That’s literally another $250,000 you just got out of the HPSP route. That’s an example that really maximizes the GI Bill, but it’s still something to factor into your decisions even if it’s not that extreme. For me, I’m applying to peds this summer. The University of Washington would charge me $45,000/year, but if I end up there I’m totally covered. Plus I’d collect a $2,500/month tax free living stipend. That’s $150,000 above and beyond whatever the Navy paid for my dental school.

Big Hoss

 

[O Gaúcho]

At the end of the day the military will tell you where to go and what to do. But I know that some military dentists try to get their feet wet in the private practice dentistry and moonlight part-time. Our careers depend on our effort and motivation. Military dentistry provides opportunities and experiences that a private practice dentist would never receive.

 

[ysrebob]

Neglecting all the intangibles like service etc: if you are ambitious to make as much as you can and not afraid to work hard, then given your family circumstances... yes, it's true the military will just slow you down. The patient load in military clinics is FAR lighter than in private practice (partly counterbalanced by a heavier load of non-dental duties, to be fair) and the procedure mix isn't really representative of private practice either… exactly as your dad supposes, it's just not very good preparation for a fast-paced private office.

Unless he is willing to pay your tuition, though, I tend to agree with you that 3 years at UoP + 3 year HPSP would still be a good option. That puts you only a couple years behind into private practice, and hundreds of thousands ahead on debt. Also, your dad's advice assumes that you want to follow in his footsteps. Running and being the "hands" behind a $2M GP practice is not for everybody. If nothing else, if you take the HPSP you can still join him in his practice, just a couple years later - or (without the burden of student loans) you could afford to cut your own alternate path instead if you decide you want something different.

 

[caffeine jitters]

Neglecting all the intangibles like service etc: if you are ambitious to make as much as you can and not afraid to work hard, then given your family circumstances... yes, it's true the military will just slow you down. The patient load in military clinics is FAR lighter than in private practice (partly counterbalanced by a heavier load of non-dental duties, to be fair) and the procedure mix isn't really representative of private practice either… exactly as your dad supposes, it's just not very good preparation for a fast-paced private office.

Unless he is willing to pay your tuition, though, I tend to agree with you that 3 years at UoP + 3 year HPSP would still be a good option. That puts you only a couple years behind into private practice, and hundreds of thousands ahead on debt. Also, your dad's advice assumes that you want to follow in his footsteps. Running and being the "hands" behind a $2M GP practice is not for everybody. If nothing else, if you take the HPSP you can still join him in his practice, just a couple years later - or (without the burden of student loans) you could afford to cut your own alternate path instead if you decide you want something different.

Do you happen to know how the pace differs for specialists - if at all?

 

[ysrebob]

Do you happen to know how the pace differs for specialists - if at all?

FWIW, here are my impressions from the USAF. I was only in for a few years so take it for what its worth.... only a semi-informed opinion at best.

Endo - similar pace to private practice I think; high likelihood of being stationed on bases with an AEGD program at least some of the time, which would bring some teaching duties with the residents, which could be fun;

OMFS - kind of have a good setup in the USAF: potentially a wider scope than the typical private OMFS practice; often stationed in pairs so you have a colleague; potential for lots of big lefort surgeries etc if on a base with an ortho. Potential for teaching residents how to shuck 3rds and sedate. Military pay does not compare well to civilian pay in this specialty so OMFS tend to separate as soon as their obligation is complete.

Ortho, Peds - would guess slower pace purely from having fewer rooms to juggle; high likelihood of being stationed overseas (these specialties are maintained in active duty mostly just to take care of dependent kids on overseas bases)

Perio - I'm not sure - pace probably fairly similar to private practice but depending on branch/station the OMFS may get most of the implants? Same as endo re chances to do teaching.

Pros - would be able to maintain a truly pros-focussed practice in the USAF vs the "quasi-GP" that usually ends up happening in civilian pros practice; fewer patients but lots of scope to do ideal/complex tx. Teaching opportunities. If you are a pros nerd, arguably a better work life in mil than in civilian. Downside - will likely be put in charge of the dental lab wherever you're stationed.

All of the specialties will differ from civilian in requiring you to put some significant fraction of your time into purely officership/military/nondental tasks.

 

[endoaccess]

Do you happen to know how the pace differs for specialists - if at all?

Specialists have it great in military.

For example endo in the Navy is super chill compared to pp. do like 2-3 cases per day, usually really easy cases because patients are young. Never deploy or go on ships. Compared to private practice where it can be pretty grueling, difficult cases all day everyday.

Perio and pros also chill. Perio basically implant specialist.

Surgery gets worked beacause they are always short, and they also go on ships. More real surgery, orthognathics etc, with exodontists doing lots of the exts.

 

[isittoolate]

Hi,

I just took my DAT (scores in sig) and am pretty confident I'd be competitive for the HPSP scholarship and am considering taking it up and applying to UoP so I can be done and debt-free in 6 years.

My father is a general dentist, pretty successful. Owns his own $2M+ practice. He's convinced that I'd do better just going to a cheap school like UNLV or Texas and then working with him because he could get me to a place where I can be really advanced and efficient clinically.

His main concern is that army and public health (he did a 4 yr Native Hawaiian health scholarship year-for-year) don't get you ready clinically to be a really efficient producer. He felt like his classmates that just took the debt had a leg up bc while he was working lackadaisically at the community health center, they were working on building their own practices and developing their skills so that they could keep up with the pace of private dentistry.

I'm married with a kid and so staying with my family is important. What is the pace of military dentistry like vs the pace of private practice? Is there anyway I could particularly work on my clinical skills?

I think UoP + HPSP makes total sense but he really is advising me against it. What is your take on his concerns?

Thank you (and I mean no disrespect to any of you all out there, just trying to make a more informed decision)!

Depends on what you are looking to do as a general dentist. I did AF HPSP and completed an AEGD. The program did not necessarily push my skills or speed in operative or pros, but I gained a lot of knowledge and experience in surgeries. I am comfortable doing my own IV sedation for simple perio surgeries like crown lengthening, flap osseous, implants, etc and lots of experience with 3rds. I got to do about 10 endo retreats and 2 apicos within this year (enough to know to AVOID them). About 30 CAD/CAM start to finish; actually designing, polishing, and sintering (good practice for same day crowns). Placed a couple over 20 implants. Compared to my classmates, I have some surgery skills which they will have a much harder time trying to learn without formal education. Overall, when I separate I will have sacrificed a couple years of building a practice and experience in the private sector, but will bring some surgical skills to the table that most general dentists do not have. That being said, if your not interested in perio surgeries as a GD or if your dad can teach you these skills, this is irrelevant. Lastly, HPSP should not be chosen if you cannot stomach military lifestyle for at least your payback- is your family willing to move around? Likely you will require two moves- one to AEGD base and one additional base if you chose AF HPSP.

 

[ifitfitsyourmolars]

Specialists have it great in military.

For example endo in the Navy is super chill compared to pp. do like 2-3 cases per day, usually really easy cases because patients are young. Never deploy or go on ships. Compared to private practice where it can be pretty grueling, difficult cases all day everyday.

Perio and pros also chill. Perio basically implant specialist.

Surgery gets worked beacause they are always short, and they also go on ships. More real surgery, orthognathics etc, with exodontists doing lots of the exts.

Since surgery is short all the time, does the navy ever send people to civilian programs through FTOS or NADDS? I've heard mixed things from different military folks

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Since surgery is short all the time, does the navy ever send people to civilian programs through FTOS or NADDS? I've heard mixed things from different military folks

If they do, it’s my understanding that they must be 4-year programs.

Big Hoss

 

[vellnueve]

Since surgery is short all the time, does the navy ever send people to civilian programs through FTOS or NADDS? I've heard mixed things from different military folks

They absolutely send people out to FTOS almost every year. I don't know who your "different military folks" are but you should disregard them on that matter.

 

[endoaccess]

Since surgery is short all the time, does the navy ever send people to civilian programs through FTOS or NADDS? I've heard mixed things from different military folks

They have a certain number of spots allocated at the big 3 training sites: San Diego, Norfolk and Bethesda. I think it's 2 per year at each site. Once this is reached, they sponsor civilian training. Usually they send the applicants with the highest scores to the civilian programs.

And the billets are always changing. Just because surgery was short a few years ago doesn't mean it is now etc. But generally speaking that is the one specialty that is undermanned often.

 

[vellnueve]

Surgery is always short. Whether anyone is sent out depends on how short they’re projecting several years out. Every year for probably the last decade, except for last cycle, someone or more were sent out.

 

[caffeine jitters]

Surgery is always short. Whether anyone is sent out depends on how short they’re projecting several years out. Every year for probably the last decade, except for last cycle, someone or more were sent out.

If someone is sent out because of demand, would that still mean consecutive payback to a prior ADO?

 

[vellnueve]

If someone is sent out because of demand, would that still mean consecutive payback to a prior ADO?

Yes. If there’s no demand they won’t send anyone, period.

 

[drill-and-fill]

Depends on what you are looking to do as a general dentist. I did AF HPSP and completed an AEGD. The program did not necessarily push my skills or speed in operative or pros, but I gained a lot of knowledge and experience in surgeries. I am comfortable doing my own IV sedation for simple perio surgeries like crown lengthening, flap osseous, implants, etc and lots of experience with 3rds. I got to do about 10 endo retreats and 2 apicos within this year (enough to know to AVOID them). About 30 CAD/CAM start to finish; actually designing, polishing, and sintering (good practice for same day crowns). Placed a couple over 20 implants. Compared to my classmates, I have some surgery skills which they will have a much harder time trying to learn without formal education. Overall, when I separate I will have sacrificed a couple years of building a practice and experience in the private sector, but will bring some surgical skills to the table that most general dentists do not have. That being said, if your not interested in perio surgeries as a GD or if your dad can teach you these skills, this is irrelevant. Lastly, HPSP should not be chosen if you cannot stomach military lifestyle for at least your payback- is your family willing to move around? Likely you will require two moves- one to AEGD base and one additional base if you chose AF HPSP.

Damn which AEGD program did you do? You certainly did wayyy more procedures than I have in my AEGD program, that's for sure