What's up non-trads. Can I get your opinion Please?

[Iwillhealyou]

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[aphios5]

...as most non-traditionals will empathize, we took the scenic route to get where we are today, some more scenic and disastrous than others, but you get the point...

...my very brief advice to you is to highlight the positive aspects of your journey in such a way that emphasizes the obstacles that you overcame, your inspirations for getting back on track, and what your goals are for the future...

...as someone who's route was filled with several twists and turns, I can tell you that if you really want it, you need to run the race like you want to win, regardless of what happened in your past...get trusted folks to read and re-read your application essays, seek out MDs and PhDs if you can...I think that's what helped to make the difference for me...i received comments on how well written my essays were in each of my interviews and how "my story" really came through...submit your application EARLY - I don't care what anyone says, for the non-traditional, it could make the difference between you and someone else....

...by the way, I will be 31 when start medical school this year...so excited...

 

[TriagePreMed]

10 years from your record sounds like an excellent gap from them. I would strongly suggest you try to get them expunged or sealed.

Unfortunately, your GPA is low. You should consider doing retakes and going for DO.

 

[yamaraja808]

10 years from your record sounds like an excellent gap from them. I would strongly suggest you try to get them expunged or sealed.

Unfortunately, your GPA is low. You should consider doing retakes and going for DO.

I disagree on this. He seems to make the cut off scores for some MD programs. He also shows an upward trend. OP should apply broadly and hopefully good things will happen.

 

[Iwillhealyou]

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[yamaraja808]

The cutoff at UCSF is like 2.9, but it doesn't mean you'll make it in. He's below the 10th percentile of 95% of schools on both cGPA and sGPA. The OP should apply very broadly, but he should have a plan B on the realistic case that he doesn't gain admission to any MD college.

Of course, you are absolutely right on this. Then again having a 4.0 GPA and 40 MCAT does not guarantee admission either. However, at least he can make it past the point of screening. This is very important because it will mean that the admissions committee will look at his application with more intent. As to whether the school interviews or gives admission to the OP or not is clearly up to them.

Looking at the AAMCs acceptance statistics, the chances of OP being accepted are 29.7%. What is really interesting is that people who score above a 33 on the MCAT with the same GPA have gotten in with a frequency of 41.5%. So he is "closing in" on having a 50/50 chance of getting in which is ideal.

However, it is as you say as he should apply broadly and have a plan B. This is always true.

 

[FlyLite]

Of course, you are absolutely right on this. Then again having a 4.0 GPA and 40 MCAT does not guarantee admission either. However, at least he can make it past the point of screening. This is very important because it will mean that the admissions committee will look at his application with more intent. As to whether the school interviews or gives admission to the OP or not is clearly up to them.

Looking at the AAMCs acceptance statistics, the chances of OP being accepted are 29.7%. What is really interesting is that people who score above a 33 on the MCAT with the same GPA have gotten in with a frequency of 41.5%. So he is "closing in" on having a 50/50 chance of getting in which is ideal.

However, it is as you say as he should apply broadly and have a plan B. This is always true.

That's the way I look at it too, probably borne out of my circumstances; one seeks solace where it can be had. There are people sitting on a 3.5 GPA wringing their fingers about their chances, which is a problem I would like to have. And there those of us looking to just cross to the brighter side of 3.0.

OP you show an upward trend academically and in your life in overcoming negative youthful tendencies, and the only way to find out for sure if you ever get admission or not is to go ahead and apply, which you have done. You may loose some money, but you will be able to call someone and say "OK... tell me how can I make my application more competitive." The great thing is you already know the things in your favor should you need another cycle to get in. I hope you come back and share, whether you make it or not, your experiences of the process.

 

[Law2Doc]

10 years from your record sounds like an excellent gap from them. I would strongly suggest you try to get them expunged or sealed. .

He wasn't a minor when he incurred these offenses, so few if any jurisdictions would expunge or seal.

I agree that with a few black marks on your record, you need to at least consider whether it's worth it to try and replace a few poor grades and try to bump up the GPA for DO purposes.

 

[Law2Doc]

He seems to make the cut off scores for some MD programs. ...

this is not the analysis to use. The goal should never be to be the borderline, longshot. If the average matriculant has a 3.5/30, the fact that the school is willing to consider people with substantially lower numbers doesn't mean you stand pat with lower numbers and run for luck. You need to do what you reasonably can to put your best foot forward.

 

[yamaraja808]

this is not the analysis to use. The goal should never be to be the borderline, longshot. If the average matriculant has a 3.5/30, the fact that the school is willing to consider people with substantially lower numbers doesn't mean you stand pat with lower numbers and run for luck. You need to do what you reasonably can to put your best foot forward.

Yes this is right. However, some people have dug themselves so deep into the hole that they cannot get to 3.5 GPA so easily. This is what I was trying to get at. He finished his degree with a 3.92 and made the cut off scores (this is a lot in on itself). So he should just apply and see what he gets. If he does not get anything, then as the previous poster has mentioned, find out why he did not get in. If he has to raise his GPA, then he should get into a post-bacc program and raise it up. Prolong the process won't help the OP because he has done a lot as it is to improve himself.

 

[Law2Doc]

Yes this is right. However, some people have dug themselves so deep into the hole that they cannot get to 3.5 GPA so easily. This is what I was trying to get at. .

This guy is already close to a 3.1. Replacing few more bad grades with good ones could get him at least to above a 3.2 for DO purposes. So yeah, that probably is worth some consideration considering he has a few black marks. Just my two cents. You NEVER want to put yourself into the position of a reapplicant having to figure out why you didn't get in. In this process you are greatly rewarded for getting all your ducks in a row and only applying once. You are never as strong as a reapplicant, and so applying isn't something you take lightly or just wing it.

 

[FlyLite]

This guy is already close to a 3.1. Replacing few more bad grades with good ones could get him at least to above a 3.2 for DO purposes. So yeah, that probably is worth some consideration considering he has a few black marks. Just my two cents. You NEVER want to put yourself into the position of a reapplicant having to figure out why you didn't get in. In this process you are greatly rewarded for getting all your ducks in a row and only applying once. You are never as strong as a reapplicant, and so applying isn't something you take lightly or just wing it.

In my view, your particular $0.02 = $1.00 ... It's like driving a brand new car off the dealer's lot; you lose some luster as a re-applicant. That I understand. It's best to do as well as you can on the first application. And I know you have said it somewhere else and I am glad you keep saying it.

But when someone moves from 0.89 GPA to 3.07 GPA, that's a lot of heavy lifting done, and I would like to believe, at least for my own sanity, that someone somewhere will recognize the effort compared to someone who may move from 3.0 to 3.2 or does nothing to improve at all.

I think some of us get to the point where you just want to get to the next level. Even though you could do more to improve you chances, you start feeling like you are running out of oxygen at you present level.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Of course, you are absolutely right on this. Then again having a 4.0 GPA and 40 MCAT does not guarantee admission either. However, at least he can make it past the point of screening. This is very important because it will mean that the admissions committee will look at his application with more intent. As to whether the school interviews or gives admission to the OP or not is clearly up to them.

Looking at the AAMCs acceptance statistics, the chances of OP being accepted are 29.7%. What is really interesting is that people who score above a 33 on the MCAT with the same GPA have gotten in with a frequency of 41.5%. So he is "closing in" on having a 50/50 chance of getting in which is ideal.

However, it is as you say as he should apply broadly and have a plan B. This is always true.

But a 4.0/40 does give you almost a guaranteed interview.

I would be wary of those percentages. Remember that they do include schools in Puerto Rico where the 10th percentile is about a 2.5 GPA. Also, U of ND has a 10th percentile of 2.98. It's very realistic that these few schools are doing the bulk of low GPA acceptance. The OP is much better off applying DO, though he'd still be below average.

 

[TriagePreMed]

But when someone moves from 0.89 GPA to 3.07 GPA, that's a lot of heavy lifting done, and I would like to believe, at least for my own sanity, that someone somewhere will recognize the effort compared to someone who may move from 3.0 to 3.2 or does nothing to improve at all.

The OP should be given mad props for that move indeed. That's a horrible scenario to have to come out of. If anyone deserves a med school seat, is someone that does that. Unfortunately, we are all still swimming in a world of numbers.

 

[Law2Doc]

But when someone moves from 0.89 GPA to 3.07 GPA, that's a lot of heavy lifting done, and I would like to believe, at least for my own sanity, that someone somewhere will recognize the effort compared to someone who may move from 3.0 to 3.2 or does nothing to improve at all.

that effort gets recognized, but at the end of the day the admissions folks still want to put together their glossy recruiting brochures which brag about the averages of the incoming class, not having to qualify those numbers with an asterisk. And like it or not, premeds are a fickle group, and a school whose average numbers go down will see fewer top applicants and more of the less competitive applicants in future cycles. So while they are willing to "forgive" remote bad grades to some extent, they really have to limit the number of "exceptions" they can look at each cycle. If you pull the GPA up to a near competitive range, you are going to get a LOT more interest. So for the OP, who I think most would agree is within striking distance but with the wildcard of some past bock marks, it perhaps pays to toil another semester or two. You can ask folks to fore give old prior indiscretions, and you can ask folks to forgive a lower than average GPA, but it's better not to have to do both.

 

[EdLongshanks]

that effort gets recognized, but at the end of the day the admissions folks still want to put together their glossy recruiting brochures which brag about the averages of the incoming class, not having to qualify those numbers with an asterisk. And like it or not, premeds are a fickle group, and a school whose average numbers go down will see fewer top applicants and more of the less competitive applicants in future cycles. So while they are willing to "forgive" remote bad grades to some extent, they really have to limit the number of "exceptions" they can look at each cycle. If you pull the GPA up to a near competitive range, you are going to get a LOT more interest. So for the OP, who I think most would agree is within striking distance but with the wildcard of some past bock marks, it perhaps pays to toil another semester or two. You can ask folks to fore give old prior indiscretions, and you can ask folks to forgive a lower than average GPA, but it's better not to have to do both.

Dittos to this. Unless schools have a common name recognizable to average people (Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, Mayo) the applicants are going to target their applications to the most selective (by numbers) schools that they believe they can get into. So a school with lower GPA averages gets lower GPA applicants.

This dynamic has turned a few schools (like my state's MD school) into numbers ******. They interview on a strictly numerical basis and accept all early interviewees unless the interviewer takes a particular dislike to them. This pumps their numbers as high as they can get them. In the exact opposite reaction, my school uses the "you're smart enough, now we want to get to know you" subjective method. This results in a 5 point difference in average MCAT scores between the two schools in the same state.

The in-state pre-meds, then, judge the schools on these numbers and the two schools have dramatically different atmospheres. According to reports that I hear, the high MCAT school keeps a public daily class rank list and is filled with gunners who undercut their classmates and try to get them to score lower.

During the interview process, the wise applicant should look for this sort of dynamic and chose the school that would fit his learning style.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

One kind of plan B I have going is that after 10 years I can file for what's called an 'Academic Fresh Start' here in Texas which basically wipes the slate clean of any classes I took ten years ago or longer. I can file for this at the end of next spring for the next application cycle if I have to and my GPA will take a huge leap upward, probably in the range of 3.6ish to 3.7ish after this next year of school.

AMCAS and AACOMAS (the application services used for MD / DO admissions, respectively) are unique snowflakes and have their own way of doing things, GPA calculations included. So, while Texas might be willing to give you a "fresh start" and wipe your slate clean, this does not hold true when applying to med school. ALL of your grades will be on there.

Triage, I can't replace any grades with retakes, I looked into that first thing when I came to school so that's out. I ended up retaking a lot of the classes I already took but the old ones still stay and don't get replaced.

This is where AACOMAS (D.O.) doing their own thing works in your favor. Even if your particular school does not do grade replacement, AACOMAS does. Say you take Math 101 at your school, twice; the first time receiving a C, the second time receiving an A. Even though your school may factor the two together for a GPA of 3.0, AACOMAS will replace the older grade entirely, resulting in a 4.0.

AMCAS (M.D.) does not do grade replacement.

 

[Iwillhealyou]

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[DrMidlife]

Definitely go after that Texas fresh start - at least get the 0.89 out of your GPA calc.

You can find lots of discussions about how to package your wayward past on SDN. If you continue to be responsible and proactive, your DUIs will not keep you out.

I vote for focusing on Texas, and blowing off AMCAS/AACOMAS. The TX schools are good & cheap & plentiful.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Iwillhealyou]

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[DrMidlife]

Hey Drmidlife- haha, well I will wait for the fresh start, I'm going to go after admission this summer but it will be there waiting for me if I need it. Can I ask you why you would blow off the AMCAS? Texas does have a good variety but do you think I would be selling myself short by only applying to 7 or 8 schools instead of 15 or 20?

Get going!!! TMDSAS opened 6 weeks ago. Get that app done right away!

No problem doing AMCAS as well as TMDSAS, just a lot less interesting. It would be a shame if you don't get into a TX school, and imho it's worth only applying there and reapplying if you don't get in the first time.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Iwillhealyou]

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