I get the impression from reading posts on SDN that many people don't regard Yale's IM program at the same level as the other top tier East Coast programs, or even as well as programs like Cornell and Mt. Sinai. What exactly is wrong with this program? Yale seems to have a very well-developed teaching strategy, tons of highly-powered research, an outstanding international elective program with numerous sites, a newly renovated hospital that happens to be the largest hospital in New England and among of the top 20 hospitals ranked by US News. It's IM program is ranked 10th this year, and it's medical school is ranked 8th this year. The Yale name also never hurts anyone. Yes, I know New Haven leaves much to be desired, but, location notwithstanding, what is wrong with this program? Is there a secret defect in this program that they're hiding from me?
What's wrong with Yale's IM program.
- Thread starter notsure33
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My guess - SDNers don't like New Haven...and that the comparison among the mgh/bwh and columbias of the world is somewhat lacking. As has been discussed here before, however, the program is still strong in a number of areas - would put it among the BIDMC, Cornell, Chicago group of programs.
This is how US News ranked internal medicine programs according to their website:
"Specialty Rankings: The rankings are based solely on ratings by medical school deans and senior faculty from the list of schools surveyed. They each identified up to 10 schools offering the best programs in each specialty area. Those receiving the most nominations in the top 10 appear here."
In the past, they were just ranked by the amount of NIH fund raising.
Bluntly, I would take this to mean that most medical school deans have a high opinion of Yale's Internal Medicine program -- or at the very least that their program offers their medical students an excellent education in internal medicine, which I would consider having similar implications regarding the experience of the residents.
I know when I met with my dean for advising, he was high on Yale and thought they offered a strong program. The match list they showed on interview day was uniformly strong, not as good as Penn or Duke, but pretty similar to Michigan, Cornell, and Sinai.
Maybe people don't like it because they interview tons of candidates, making it seem not so selective, but so do duke and michigan, so I don't know.
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I agree, take these rankings with a grain of salt. BUT also note, if you're coming to the SDN forum to get an idea of what "most" people think then you're most definitely starting off on the wrong foot.
Unfortunately, most people who supply feedback on this forum are regulars and they have like 10 million posts, which means they spend most if not all of their time runnin' their mouth on the internet instead of studying. My guess is that most Yale IM residents or any other traditionally well regarded IM program residents don't waste their time on SDN giving feedback. Why ?
Answer: Res ipsa loquitur
the facts speak for themselves. what facts? well, for example...
if you'll notice, there are regulars who routinely post on rankings and argue that this is better than that, yada yada yada. its mindless jibberish, and i don't wish this on anyone, but they're probably at once insecure and egotistical.
So, bottom line, my hunch is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with Yale's IM program. So the real question is, what's wrong with the SDN crowd? I guess you can include me in that if you want, haha!
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Not too familiar with northeastern IM programs, but it could be more that there is lots of competition in the northeast (in terms of other strong IM programs) more so than that Yale sucks per se. I'm sure it doesn't suck...
Also, the location does tend to be important in how med students and residents perceive different programs. A lot of people like to live in "cool" cities. I have heard New Haven is a rough neighborhood, and probably has harsh winters as well. I would expect there to be a lot of indigent patients, and all the social issues that go along with that (and can make your life more difficult as a resident or intern, on account of the disposition issues it creates) although I don't know for sure.
If Yale does indeed have a bad rep on SDN (I hadn't noticed if it does...) then other reasons could be if there is a heavy workload as compared to other peer institutions, or that the dept. chair or program director are seen as less supportive or "warm and fuzzy" or that there are things about the hospital that make it a less than ideal work environment (in other words, not good electronic medical records, or interns have to do a lot of scut work like drawing blood, etc.). I don't know if Yale has any of these problems at all. I suspect that there is probably lousy weather, impoverished patients and a rather poor city with high crime rate, and that may be the extent of why it doesn't get a better "rating" on SDN....
Also, the location does tend to be important in how med students and residents perceive different programs. A lot of people like to live in "cool" cities. I have heard New Haven is a rough neighborhood, and probably has harsh winters as well. I would expect there to be a lot of indigent patients, and all the social issues that go along with that (and can make your life more difficult as a resident or intern, on account of the disposition issues it creates) although I don't know for sure.
If Yale does indeed have a bad rep on SDN (I hadn't noticed if it does...) then other reasons could be if there is a heavy workload as compared to other peer institutions, or that the dept. chair or program director are seen as less supportive or "warm and fuzzy" or that there are things about the hospital that make it a less than ideal work environment (in other words, not good electronic medical records, or interns have to do a lot of scut work like drawing blood, etc.). I don't know if Yale has any of these problems at all. I suspect that there is probably lousy weather, impoverished patients and a rather poor city with high crime rate, and that may be the extent of why it doesn't get a better "rating" on SDN....
