when did your GI bill run out for medical school?

[anonimoose]

Hello,

Basic Question:

For veterans...

1. who have 100% eligibility for the Post 9/11 GI Bill AND
2. who left the service (no further Reserve/Guard/scholarship obligations) AND
3. who attended medical school

...when did your benefits run out?


Background:

Many have said that one's Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits will run out before the end of medical school.

MTGas2B: "And post 9/11 only covers 36 months. Most med schools go year round at some point so you'll need loans to cover the end."

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=958248

ftrflyr29: "I will use the post-9/11 GI Bill benefits for 36 months and suck it up with loans in the last year."

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=688786

AFPILOT: "The GI Bill can only be used for 3 years, but I have been told that you can spread out over 4 years if you do the traditional 2 semester route. The 3 year coverage is supposedly a year round deal so it is really meant to cover 4 years with the summers off like most schools do it."

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=703177

TLAD123: "but this is only for three years. The fourth year is out of pocket/scholarship."

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1012253

However, all of this seems prospective/speculative -- I haven't read any postings on SDN by anyone who's actually completed medical school using the Post 9/11 GI Bill. (I'm sure people have in the past few years, but with internship and residency, they're probably too busy to post on SDN.)

I'm thinking that the conventional wisdom is right, but that the financial situation may be less dire than initially understood. I spoke today to the veterans affairs coordinator at my university; she clarified a number of different points:

1. So long as there's one day of educational benefits remaining when an academic term begins, the Department of Veteran Affairs (VA) will pay the tuition (everything for state schools; up to $19,198.31 for private) for that academic year at the beginning of the academic year

2. So long as there's one day of educational benefits remaining when an academic term begins, the VA will pay said benefits (tuition/books fee, Basic Allowance for Housing [BAH]) for the remainder of the academic term -- thus, benefits can be extended past 36 months, up to 48 months

3. If applicable, Yellow Ribbon payments (both from the university and the VA) are paid at the beginning of the second academic term of an academic year


Analysis:

Based on the conversation, I have prepared the following analysis for a hypothetical veteran beginning medical school in Fall 2014 with 100% of her/his Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits remaining.

2014-08: MS1, tuition payment made, books (partial) paid, BAH paid (month 1/36)
2014-09: MS1, BAH paid (month 2/36)
2014-10: MS1, BAH paid (month 3/36)
2014-11: MS1, BAH paid (month 4/36)
2014-12: MS1, BAH paid (month 5/36)
2015-01: MS1, Yellow Ribbon paid, books (remainder) paid, BAH paid (month 6/36)
2015-02: MS1, BAH paid (month 7/36)
2015-03: MS1, BAH paid (month 8/36)
2015-04: MS1, BAH paid (month 9/36)
2015-05: MS1, BAH paid (month 10/36)
2015-06: MS1, BAH paid (month 11/36)
2015-07: MS1, no BAH paid (no classes)

2015-08: MS2, tuition payment made, books (partial) paid, BAH paid (month 12/36)
2015-09: MS2, BAH paid (month 13/36)
2015-10: MS2, BAH paid (month 14/36)
2015-11: MS2, BAH paid (month 15/36)
2015-12: MS2, BAH paid (month 16/36)
2016-01: MS2, Yellow Ribbon paid, books (remainder) paid, BAH paid (month 17/36)
2016-02: MS2, BAH paid (month 18/36)
2016-03: MS2, BAH paid (month 19/36)
2016-04: MS2, BAH paid (month 20/36)
2016-05: MS2, BAH paid (month 21/36)
2016-06: MS2, BAH paid (month 22/36)

2016-07: MS3, tuition payment made, books (partial) paid, BAH paid (month 23/36)
2016-08: MS3, BAH paid (month 24/36)
2016-09: MS3, BAH paid (month 25/36)
2016-10: MS3, BAH paid (month 26/36)
2016-11: MS3, BAH paid (month 27/36)
2016-12: MS3, BAH paid (month 28/36)
2017-01: MS3, Yellow Ribbon paid, books (remainder) paid, BAH paid (month 29/36)
2017-02: MS3, BAH paid (month 30/36)
2017-03: MS3, BAH paid (month 31/36)
2017-04: MS3, BAH paid (month 32/36)
2017-05: MS3, BAH paid (month 33/36)
2017-06: MS3, BAH paid (month 34/36)

2017-07: MS4, tuition payment made, books (partial) paid, BAH paid (month 35/36)
2017-08: MS4, BAH paid (month 36/36)
2017-09: MS4, BAH paid (month 37/48)
2017-10: MS4, BAH paid (month 38/48)
2017-11: MS4, BAH paid (month 39/48)
2017-12: MS4, BAH paid (month 40/48)
2018-01: MS4, no Yellow Ribbon paid, no books paid, no BAH paid
2018-02: MS4, no BAH paid
2018-03: MS4, no BAH paid
2018-04: MS4, no BAH paid
2018-05: MS4, no BAH paid
2018-06: MS4, no BAH paid


Requests for Information (RFI)s/Unknowns:

1. Is my analysis correct?

2. Does each university have its own policies (e.g. tuition payments split up into two terms instead of one lump sum at beginning of academic year, Yellow Ribbon paid at the beginning of the academic year instead of in the middle, etc)?


Would really prefer to hear from those who have actually done it. I realize I'm looking at a very small (and unique) sample size here -- but the insights from your personal experience would clarify, encourage, and enlighten those fellow veterans seeking to follow in your footsteps.

Respectfully,
Moose
(former USMC)

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[Captain Sisko]

Moose,

thanks for your service. I'm not a vet, so I guess you don't really care to hear from me. But I'll respond anyway since it's a free country (thanks again).

Not sure how your funding works, but I gather from your analysis that it pays for when classes are in session only. You should roll into your analysis that you're not in class the summer after first year, which makes MS1 9 months long. 2nd year rolls directly into 3rd year, and 3rd directly into 4th, but you stop 4th year when you graduate, so that's an incomplete year as well.

So while your benefits would run out under this scenario it's probably not as hard-hitting as you think.

sisko

 

[Blue Spoon]

Moose,
Wish I could give you a better answer. I am an MS2 and mine will run out this year, but that is because I used it for 2 years of pre-reqs before starting med school. Based on one of the 4th years last year who was using it his did run out but I don't have more specifics that that. Good luck.

 

[sazerac]

That stinks that they will pay the full cost of a $70,000 state school like Illinois but will shaft you with half the bill if you go to a way cheaper private medical school that costs only $40,000.

 

[xffan624]

OP, don't have the answer as I'm using it now. I have some money saved so one semester is not going to kill me. Also vocational rehabilitation might be an option for you if you have a disability rating. I just got my letter for 40%, but I haven't tried to see if that's an option for me. Maybe if becomes clear that my GI bill benefits will run out I'll seek it out.

Still waiting for my initial post 9/11 benefits as a MS1. Bureaucracy

 

[alpinism]

The quoted posters are correct. The post 9/11 GI Bill covers 36 months worth of school towards a degree. At a normal undergrad, school lasts 9 months out of the year, thus it covers 4 years (not including summers).

During med school, however, M1 and M2 last anywhere from 9 to 11 months depending on the school. In addition, M3 and M4 last almost 12 months. Because of this, even if you had the full 36 months of benefits, you would run out roughly halfway through M4 year.

 

[GreenBlade]

Veterans that entered the military in the Great State of Texas will not have to worry about running out of educational benefits. I am using my Post 9-11 GI Bill for the last two years of undergrad and MS1 &2. The Hazelwood exemption will kick in afterwards and will cover me through the final two years of Medical School. Heck, I can even go for MD/ PhD and probably not pay a dime.

 

[Blue Spoon]

Veterans that entered the military in the Great State of Texas will not have to worry about running out of educational benefits. I am using my Post 9-11 GI Bill for the last two years of undergrad and MS1 &2. The Hazelwood exemption will kick in afterwards and will cover me through the final two years of Medical School. Heck, I can even go for MD/ PhD and probably not pay a dime.

Don't get too cocky. Even with the Post 9/11 GI Bill there are still a number of fees that aren't covered. So you will have less debt but likely still have to take something out.

 

[GreenBlade]

Don't get too cocky. Even with the Post 9/11 GI Bill there are still a number of fees that aren't covered. So you will have less debt but likely still have to take something out.

I saved my money while I was in. I witnessed many goobers blow their money on strippers and booze.

 

[bryce]

That is a sweet deal. I wonder why Kentucky doesn't have a similar program (HA!)? Seriously though, I don't think there's anyway that I'd go back there after having lived on 4 different continents the last 12 years.

I haven't used my post-9/11 yet. Saving it for medical school.

 

[starfar]

Too lazy to read other posts.. So not sure if this was mentioned.. But Post 9/11 only gives as much as your most expensive state school.. So regardless of how many months you have, it ain't going to cover 40k tuition..

This is the reason for the yellow ribbon program.. Where private schools will cover the rest of the portion the Post 9/11 doesn't cover.. But I don't think there are medical schools that participate in the program.

The BAH will help tremendously, and in NYC the rates are sweeeeeet! $3258 a month this year

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Too lazy to read other posts.. So not sure if this was mentioned.. But Post 9/11 only gives as much as your most expensive state school.. So regardless of how many months you have, it ain't going to cover 40k tuition..

This is the reason for the yellow ribbon program.. Where private schools will cover the rest of the portion the Post 9/11 doesn't cover.. But I don't think there are medical schools that participate in the program.

The BAH will help tremendously, and in NYC the rates are sweeeeeet! $3258 a month this year

First part is not true. For a state program, it will cover every dime of tuition, regardless of how much that tuition is. It shells out ~$34k per for mine without a whimper.

 

[starfar]

"But Post 9/11 only gives as much as your most expensive state school.."

Which part is untrue?

If you matriculate at your state school, you're good. Private school is going to have to come out of your pocket unless the private school has the same tuition as the state school.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

"But Post 9/11 only gives as much as your most expensive state school.."

Which part is untrue?

If you matriculate at your state school, you're good. Private school is going to have to come out of your pocket unless the private school has the same tuition as the state school.

Because some states have public schools that run around $40k. And it will pay that full amount.

 

[starfar]

ok so your issue was with the number i threw out.. ok
if your most expensive state school is a hundred million dollars it will pay it. if your most expensive state school is 17,000 and you're rejected from that one.. but the private you were accepted to is 50k. you won't be getting 50k unless that school foots the rest of the bill.

 

[xffan624]

ok so your issue was with the number i threw out.. ok
if your most expensive state school is a hundred million dollars it will pay it. if your most expensive state school is 17,000 and you're rejected from that one.. but the private you were accepted to is 50k. you won't be getting 50k unless that school foots the rest of the bill.

The payment for a private school is set at 19.9K for this year regardless of the cost of a state school.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/resources/benefits_resources/rates/CH33/Ch33rates080113.html#TUITION

 

[anonimoose]

Bumping this thread. Is there anyone out there who used the post 9-11 GI Bill for medical school, who is now finished with said schooling? Please refer to the post that started this thread.

 

[trev5150]

Bumping this thread. Is there anyone out there who used the post 9-11 GI Bill for medical school, who is now finished with said schooling? Please refer to the post that started this thread.

Maybe you can get some data/statistics from the V.A. You're not likely to find many of us that haven't blown through all of their benefits in undergrad. There might be the occasional prior officer med students using GI Bill benefits, but more likely they used their VA bennies to pay off their undergrad debt as well.

As for the original post, yes it's highly likely that benefits will run out before med school is over. Longer academic periods cause this. There is 36 months, and once you use a month, it's gone forever, even if it's a pro rata partial month. This is why I'm not certifying for the summer sessions. I don't want to blow those months on six credits when I know i have more than a few 15-17 credit semesters ahead.

You're better served speaking to someone at a VA regional office or a knowledgable school VA liaison.

 

[xffan624]

Bumping this thread. Is there anyone out there who used the post 9-11 GI Bill for medical school, who is now finished with said schooling? Please refer to the post that started this thread.

I had my full 9/11 GI bill when I came in, but I applied to vocational rehab and started in the program second year. I guess I could have answered if I had stayed with the 9/11 bill. I just didn't want to find out if I didn't have to.

 

[mikepremed1987]

This is advice for any vets that find this thread!

Go to a community college for 2 years and pay out of pocket. The tuition is pretty cheap and if you need extra money either work or take out loans. Save your GI bill for when you transfer to a university and medical school.

2 years CC. ~$10k. (Savings/ Loans)
2 years at good private college ~$90k (yes $90k, fully paid for by GI bill) Cost 16 benefit months.

Now I have 20 months of benefits left for MS1- MS2.

Do NOT use your benefits for summer semesters or partial semesters. If you plan on going to graduate school you are wasting your benefit months. The VA does not care if the school costs $500 or $50,000 they go by months in school.

 

[xffan624]

Did you have any difficulty getting voc rehab approved?

Not really, but if you do a search around the forum you will definitely see that other posters have so it's not a guarantee that you'll get it if you apply.

 

[trev5150]

1. VA does not care if the school costs $500 or $50,000 they go by months in school.

A few things here mate,
1. It's well known that prereqs taken at a CC are considered weaker than a 4- year institution, so if you're going to kick it in CC for two years, non-science core stuff only (maths, phych, volleyball, whatever
2. The VA has a spending cap of @20k/year, as they assume in-state and stste school attendance as a benchmark.
3. Not everyone qualifues for Yellow Ribbon, including myself. Had I known this I wouldn't have gotten on that helicopter when they said I could. Now I'm 70%. FML. Still better than a sharp stick in the eye, though.
4. Not every state grants veterans in-stste tuition. I had to apply for a waiver as PA legislation was pending at the time. You may find yourself having to mive to wherever you are officially from, HOR-wise. Not everyone can be from Texas (although it does seem like every third dude in the military is from Texas).

 

[mikepremed1987]

A few things here mate,
1. It's well known that prereqs taken at a CC are considered weaker than a 4- year institution, so if you're going to kick it in CC for two years, non-science core stuff only (maths, phych, volleyball, whatever
2. The VA has a spending cap of @20k/year, as they assume in-state and stste school attendance as a benchmark.
3. Not everyone qualifues for Yellow Ribbon, including myself. Had I known this I wouldn't have gotten on that helicopter when they said I could. Now I'm 70%. FML. Still better than a sharp stick in the eye, though.
4. Not every state grants veterans in-stste tuition. I had to apply for a waiver as PA legislation was pending at the time. You may find yourself having to mive to wherever you are officially from, HOR-wise. Not everyone can be from Texas (although it does seem like every third dude in the military is from Texas).

Hey I agree on a few points with the exception of the CC. From the adcoms that I have spoken with (3, so may be just their schools) they do NOT care where you took your pre-reqs. The problem they have is when people at universities are taking all their harder classes (physics, organic) at a CC just to avoid the university. They specifically said if you did 2 years at a CC for financial reasons (or any justifiable reason) that is completely fine. This is of course not all schools, but they represented 3 bigger schools in FL.

Sorry you don't qualify for the yellow ribbon. It's a great program and I never knew much about it until I started using it. A lot of medical schools are a part of the yellow ribbon, but most only throw in a few extra thousand instead of matching the whole thing. For folks that qualify http://www.benefits.va.gov/GIBILL/yellow_ribbon/yrp_list_2014.asp lets you see which states offer what kind of yellow ribbon benefits. I know it will be a huge factor in where I go to medical school.

I did not even realize some states grant veterans instate tuition. Is that undergrad only or med? I figured I would just end up with a huge bill if I went out of state!

 

[medic86]

A few things here mate,
1. It's well known that prereqs taken at a CC are considered weaker than a 4- year institution, so if you're going to kick it in CC for two years, non-science core stuff only (maths, phych, volleyball, whatever
2. The VA has a spending cap of @20k/year, as they assume in-state and stste school attendance as a benchmark.
3. Not everyone qualifues for Yellow Ribbon, including myself. Had I known this I wouldn't have gotten on that helicopter when they said I could. Now I'm 70%. FML. Still better than a sharp stick in the eye, though.
4. Not every state grants veterans in-stste tuition. I had to apply for a waiver as PA legislation was pending at the time. You may find yourself having to mive to wherever you are officially from, HOR-wise. Not everyone can be from Texas (although it does seem like every third dude in the military is from Texas).

2. If you're in-state at a public school, they'll cover the whole amount, even if the tuition cost is $75,000 per year.

3. This is entirely dependent upon how many slots a particular medical school signed up for in their Yellow Ribbon participation agreement with the VA. While some schools will have only 1 or 2 spots for a paltry $2,000 (or no slots at all), there are other schools that have unlimited slots for unlimited funding (like Dartmouth, for example).

There is no special qualifier, other than being a veteran on a first come first serve basis (if there are limited slots).

 

[trev5150]

The cap is on private schools. I believe they'll fully cover expensive public medical schools.

Also, see this article for possible in state status changes. http://college.usatoday.com/2015/03...es-will-soon-offer-veterans-in-state-tuition/

The cap is on tuition reimbursement, diesn't differentiate between public and private. I was out-of-pocket a few thousand with Penn State before my waiver was approved and prior to the oassage of veteran in-state tuition.

You have to be eligible for Yellow Ribbon. I got out June 15th, 2003, therefore I didn't have enough time in service after 9/11/01, so I got hosed on the rules of TWO programs that didn't even exist at that point (Post-9/11 GIB didn't exist until 2008).

Oh yeah and Penn State isn't a state school. It's a associated with Pennsylvania, as opposed to, for example, NY's SUNY/CUNY/CC system. Hence the need for the waiver and the leguslation to force the issue in this glorious worker's paradise.

Hosed every time I turn around.

 

[medic86]

The cap is on tuition reimbursement, diesn't differentiate between public and private. I was out-of-pocket a few thousand with Penn State before my waiver was approved and prior to the oassage of veteran in-state tuition.

Ah. So you're not talking about the post-9/11 GI bill.

It's a pretty important distinction.