When do you call yourself Dr?

[Skydiver]

I was talking to another student today, who will be officially done with Med school end of Feb or Mar. He will be getting married in April. In my school there are several graduation dates but you only walk across the stage and receive your diploma end of May.

The question is, his fiance is working on invitations and she want to put Dr and Mrs. He doesn't want to look like a douche and put Dr. before he walks and has his diploma in hand.

So when can you address yourself, or a better question, when do most people begin to address themselves as Drs?

I say...RUN....RUN FAST

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[silas2642]

I was talking to another student today, who will be officially done with Med school end of Feb or Mar. He will be getting married in April. In my school there are several graduation dates but you only walk across the stage and receive your diploma end of May.

The question is, his fiance is working on invitations and she want to put Dr and Mrs. He doesn't want to look like a douche and put Dr. before he walks and has his diploma in hand.

So when can you address yourself, or a better question, when do most people begin to address themselves as Drs?

I say...RUN....RUN FAST

I believe you call yourself "doctor" when you graduate medical school.

 

[ShyRem]

You aren't a doctor until you graduate. Until that time, you are "student doctor" or "medical student".


Oh - and she's not a Mrs. unless she's married. So she's not Mrs. until AFTER the ceremony. Or can you say Mrs. if you're divorced??

 

[Winged Scapula]

<p>Uhmm....he could tell his fiancee that she should put Mr. and Miss. on the invitations regardless of when he graduates.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>A wedding is a social event, not a professional one.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>(not that I don't see physicians do this ALL the time, but when you don't see wedding invites from Dr. So and So, PhD or Ms. So and So, JD, it seems a bit lame, IMHO).</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Just my two cents...</p>

 

[jbp100]

I have had many attendings this year introduce me as Dr. JBP100 to patients as well as other doctors (which gets a little strange when they ask you what residency program you are in!).

For the most part, I stopped trying to correct them when I was in front of patients, because it was just easier not to. I did have to explain myself in front of other doctors though. As far as written correspondence, I think it is a big no-no until degree is in hand. Just my own humble opinion.

Alternatively, they could push the wedding back til after graduation.

 

[alwaysaangel]

The question is, his fiance is working on invitations and she want to put Dr and Mrs. He doesn't want to look like a douche and put Dr. before he walks and has his diploma in hand.

Yeah this screams gold digger who loves her husband's title more than her husband. Not a good sign.

 

[FutureInternist]

1st day of residency.

 

[Skydiver]

Well that's the thing, in my idiotic school his transcript will say graduation date Mar 2010 , but he won't get the diploma and walk until May. So he will infact have graduated by April.

My personal feeling is "douche" before diploma in hand.

I was though it was amusing when you speak with someone and they say something like "You know her husband is a doctor" Who cares. It's his accomplisments not hers. It's like saying, You know his wife is a cosmetologist???

The other thing that amuses me is when the wife calls the office and asks the receptionist to speak with "the Doctor"

Sorry, I hijacked my own thread
Back to biness


PS. Where is my drive to study for step 2? Has anybody seen it? I really need it back

 

[howelljolly]

Putting Dr. on an invitation sounds silly to me at any point, but to each, his own.

To address the question. At the med school where I did research.... med school graduation was done over two days. Day 1 was graduation from the med school, and day 2 was graduation from the university which the med school was part of. At the med school graduation, the dean made it a point to say that allthough they had graduated med school that day, they could not be called "doctor" until after the following day, when they graduated from the university. (and he joked that he was sure that this technicality wasnt going to stop anyone...) Point is, graduating medical school, and having your degree conferred upon you are two different things.

So, being that somone who graduates med school can't be called 'doctor' until all of the powers-that-be that are officially authorized to grant the degree, do so.... your friend shouldnt be called 'Dr' until he has the diploma.

 

[howelljolly]

Well that's the thing, in my idiotic school his transcript will say graduation date Mar 2010 , but he won't get the diploma and walk until May. So he will infact have graduated by April.

My personal feeling is "douche" before diploma in hand.

I was though it was amusing when you speak with someone and they say something like "You know her husband is a doctor" Who cares. It's his accomplisments not hers. It's like saying, You know his wife is a cosmetologist???

The other thing that amuses me is when the wife calls the office and asks the receptionist to speak with "the Doctor"

Sorry, I hijacked my own thread
Back to biness


PS. Where is my drive to study for step 2? Has anybody seen it? I really need it back

If your idiotic school is anything like my idiotic school, the transcript will say that you "graduated" at the end of your rotations. But your degree will not be conferred until May. It takes care of that nonsense about downtime during med school, which apparently is so important that it must be addressed in the Dean Letter....

 

[efex101]

Db

 

[USArmyDoc]

I only do it with patients who are non-compliant during an h&P or a patient that does not want to see a medical student

 

[colbgw02]

I got married a month before graduation, so being Mr. and Miss on the invitations and Mr. and Mrs. after the ceremony were a no brainer.

A classmate of mine got married a week before graduation, and the bride's family convinced the minister to announce the couple as Dr. and Mrs. I'm sure most people either didn't know better or didn't care, but we thought it was pretty douchetastic.

 

[SoCuteMD]

While his transcript may say "March," he shouldn't put Dr. on anything (much less a wedding invitation - see Winged Scapula's point about it being a social invitation) until he has his diploma in hand. I know that my school's board meets to formally "approve" us for graduation about a week and a half beforehand, so even though I'd completed all of my coursework in March, there were still a few steps for the administration to complete shortly before graduation.

In any case, I think it's inappropriate to put Dr. on social stuff. Plus, it just puts a bullseye on you to be pestered by every charity in existence since they really like to hit up doctors.

 

[Doctor Bob]

I have had many attendings this year introduce me as Dr. JBP100 to patients as well as other doctors (which gets a little strange when they ask you what residency program you are in!).

Lots of attendings do that, especially with 4th year students. They're just trying to give the student an ego boost.

I had an attending (when I was a 4th year) tell me "It's ok for me to introduce you as Dr. Bob to people, but not ok for you to do so."

 

[howelljolly]

Lots of attendings do that, especially with 4th year students. They're just trying to give the student an ego boost.

I had an attending (when I was a 4th year) tell me "It's ok for me to introduce you as Dr. Bob to people, but not ok for you to do so."

Its just easier for the attending to do bedside teaching when they introduce you as Dr... It makes the patient feel less like a crash test dummy. So Id agree that it's ok for attending to do so.

I had an attending who would introduce us as Dr. if and when he wanted us to interview or examine the patient in front of the team. (so, if you weren't oblivious, you'd know his M.O.) On rounds one day, one student threw out a few really silly answers, and asked some really silly questions. The patient asked her if she's a doctor... and she simply said "no". That was the end of her. I suppose that she should have qualified it by saying that shes a doctor in training, or a med student....

So, use your brain. Call yourself "dr." when its appropriate (like the first day of residency). IMO, its not appropriate on a wedding invitation when the individual is not, in fact, a doctor. Thats just an ego boost for the individual and the family.

 

[ShyRem]

graduate means "diploma in hand" not "completed coursework but didn't get paperwork". No Dr. until diploma in hand.

 

[TXDO]

Do not make a big deal out of being a Dr. in Wedding day. You'll be called Dr. for the rest of your life, not just for couple hours of wedding ceremony. Since that guy won't graduate until May, he's technically not a doctor yet. Call himself a Dr. before "diploma in hand" day is unneccessary and wrong.

I never thought about this till today when I read this topic.
Dr. and Mrs X--> Dr is Chick Magnet

 

[njbmd]

I don't use the title Doctor unless it has to do with clinical or teaching. In everything else, I am Ms. I certainly would not put Dr. on my wedding invitations as they are not business but social.

I had completed the requirements for my degree in January of my fourth year. I only had to match and pick up my diploma in May (one long nice vacation that I put to good use). Completion of degree requirements does not equal graduation or conferring of degree.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I just graduated. I only plan on being Dr. in the hospital. Not on my mail, any accounts or anything else. Its not relevant, to anything.

 

[howelljolly]

besides, why would you want your friends and family to call you "dr."?

 

[MrBurns10]

besides, why would you want your friends and family to call you "dr."?

I'm going to be like the Maestro in Seinfeld and insist everyone call me doctor at all times, including my significant other during intimate moments.

 

[Cerberus]

I agree with what has been said about it being inappropriate regardless of whether you are formally a doctor yet or not.

As an aside, I've never quite known how to deal with patients calling me doctor. I never introduce myself as doctor (usually I just say "I'm Cerberus, a fourth year medicine student working with blah blah blah" or "I'm Cerberus and I'm working with blah blah blah this month". Anyhow, last week I had a patient who when I was in the room with the attending kept saying "how do you pronounce your name Dr. Cerberus?". I told her how to pronounce my last name but I didn't bother correcting her on the doctor part, because we were leaving the room. Anyhow, I hope that attending doesn't think I'm a douche who goes around introducing himself as doctor...

 

[caffeine37]

what if the wife is the MD? Is it Mr. and Dr. X?

 

[lord_jeebus]

The correct answer regarding anything involving Her Special Day is whatever his future wife wants. If she wants to bestow any inappropriate title - "Dr" or "Sir" or "King," for the sake of a happy marriage, that is not a battle worth fighting.

Of course, as he is not really a doctor, he should stay out of the invitation process and quietly blame it all on his wife if someone notices the technicality.

 

[EagerCraft]

Its just easier for the attending to do bedside teaching when they introduce you as Dr... It makes the patient feel less like a crash test dummy. So Id agree that it's ok for attending to do so.

As an aside, while it may happen, it is not okay for a non-physician to be introduced as "Doctor" for the purposes of convenience -especially to a patient. Patients have the right to know the true title and credentials of individuals who care for them -this is just as fundamental as having the right to know about (or refuse) the care being offered. Patients have a right to refuse care from students (or medical assistants v. nurses) for whatever reasons they might have. If someone is intentionally deceiving the patient (i.e. denying them information they might use to make an informed choice), this would amount to fraud.

I vote "no" for using the "Dr." title in any non-professional setting.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

It's amazing how we can parse these tiny issues, isn't it? I don't think the business/social distinction is very valid. In the United States, it is traditional for doctors of medicine and persons holding a doctorate who are teaching in a university setting to use the title "Doctor" both professionally and socially. If you argued that it's a stupid tradition I wouldn't disagree with you, but it's the convention in this country.

However, "Doctor" is both an academic title and a professional one in the medical context, so its use can be regulated by law - and it is. In my state, the mere fact that you hold the M.D. degree (as in, having graduated and actually owning the piece of paper) does not entitle you to present yourself to the public as "Joe Blow, M.D." or "Dr. Joe Blow" because, in this state, holding yourself out to the public as a Medical Doctor implies that you have a right to practice. So, after graduation, you also need your intern's training license before you can legally change your stationary and your checking account to "Joe Blow, M.D." You might disagree with that also, but that's the law in my state.

 

[colbgw02]

I agree with what has been said about it being inappropriate regardless of whether you are formally a doctor yet or not.

As an aside, I've never quite known how to deal with patients calling me doctor. I never introduce myself as doctor (usually I just say "I'm Cerberus, a fourth year medicine student working with blah blah blah" or "I'm Cerberus and I'm working with blah blah blah this month". Anyhow, last week I had a patient who when I was in the room with the attending kept saying "how do you pronounce your name Dr. Cerberus?". I told her how to pronounce my last name but I didn't bother correcting her on the doctor part, because we were leaving the room. Anyhow, I hope that attending doesn't think I'm a douche who goes around introducing himself as doctor...

I felt the same way early on in internship regarding patients. Believe me, you get over it very quickly. What I thought was more surprising was my early interaction with other non-physician medical personnel. I used to introduce myself as "First name/Last name" to nurses, PAs, techs, etc. until several older physicians took me aside and said that I shouldn't do that. I should always be "Dr. Last Name". At first I thought they were being overly formal, but enough people mentioned it that I eventually took their advice.

 

[Skydiver]

All this talk on the proper use of the word.
The only thing I know for sure, is that at the wedding I'll be throwing around the Doctor word to any young, impressionable and drunk young ladies, as far as the eye can see.

BTW, After graduating medical school, I'll be officially changing my first name to Doctor, and like the Maestro, I too will expect all to address me as such.

(Great call on the Maestro )

 

[lilnoelle]

I always just say "Hi, my name is Lisa and I'm the medical student with the XXX team."
Very infrequently I've had attendings introduce me as student doctor (last name). I think I've had once or twice that I've been introduced as Dr. xxx and that made me uncomfortable.

 

[45408]

I always just say "Hi, my name is Lisa and I'm the medical student with the XXX team."
Very infrequently I've had attendings introduce me as student doctor (last name). I think I've had once or twice that I've been introduced as Dr. xxx and that made me uncomfortable.

Same. I don't like being introduced as Dr., because it feels so fake right now. I don't usually correct a patient when they say things on their phone like "Oh, the doctor's in here now." I just tell them I'm a med student with the psych/surgery/medicine team.

 

[Jersey]

I remember a Doctor from North Jersey who's last name was Doktor.

 

[Gold 5]

The correct answer regarding anything involving Her Special Day is whatever his future wife wants. If she wants to bestow any inappropriate title - "Dr" or "Sir" or "King," for the sake of a happy marriage, that is not a battle worth fighting.

Of course, as he is not really a doctor, he should stay out of the invitation process and quietly blame it all on his wife if someone notices the technicality.

Very wise. You sir sound as if you are happily married.

 

[Samoa]

Agree with consensus: no calling yourself Dr. till you get the paper.

As for me, my douchebag landlady put "Dr. Samoa" on my mailbox without my consent, for all to see. I'm sure she did it to enhance the snob factor for prospective tenants, but it's still irritatingly pretentious.

 

[Samoa]

I felt the same way early on in internship regarding patients. Believe me, you get over it very quickly. What I thought was more surprising was my early interaction with other non-physician medical personnel. I used to introduce myself as "First name/Last name" to nurses, PAs, techs, etc. until several older physicians took me aside and said that I shouldn't do that. I should always be "Dr. Last Name". At first I thought they were being overly formal, but enough people mentioned it that I eventually took their advice.

That's funny. It was exactly the opposite at my internship. Everyone was on a first name basis, except the attendings. In fact, we had a visiting resident from another program who insisted on being called "Dr. so-and-so," and it didn't go over well at all.

 

[theKirk]

But what if he was a Doctor of Nurse Practitioner?

...oh, wrong thread. Sorry.




(Doctor on an invitation smacks of being a huge douchebolus, IMHO)

 

[45408]

That's funny. It was exactly the opposite at my internship. Everyone was on a first name basis, except the attendings. In fact, we had a visiting resident from another program who insisted on being called "Dr. so-and-so," and it didn't go over well at all.

in the ER at our main campus, the ER residents all call the attendings by their first names. a little odd to me.

 

[Knicks]

1st day of residency.

This sounds right to me.

 

[BobBarker]

I plan on having my family call me "Dr", it will be an easy transition because I already make them call me "Sir".

 

[ACGator09]

this reminds me... when i shadowed dr's in high school and college some used to tell their patients that i was a med student... and now med students are introduced as doctors?
anyway, ive read somewhere that some physicians will use their formal title dr so-and-so when dealing with a stranger over the phone, like a customer service rep, cuz more often they get their way when introduced as such

 

[slick27]

this reminds me... when i shadowed dr's in high school and college some used to tell their patients that i was a med student... and now med students are introduced as doctors?
anyway, ive read somewhere that some physicians will use their formal title dr so-and-so when dealing with a stranger over the phone, like a customer service rep, cuz more often they get their way when introduced as such

They introduce themself as Dr. since on the phone the person cannot see who they are talking to.

 

[howelljolly]

I suspect that theres a MS-3 in my hospital thats introduces himself as Dr.

 

[FutureInternist]

this reminds me... when i shadowed dr's in high school and college some used to tell their patients that i was a med student... and now med students are introduced as doctors?
anyway, ive read somewhere that some physicians will use their formal title dr so-and-so when dealing with a stranger over the phone, like a customer service rep, cuz more often they get their way when introduced as such

One of the residents I was working with did just that. The Black Friday sale was ending at 11, he was post-call & didn't get to leave till noon. So he calls them up, says this is DR. X & sure enough they held an HD TV for him.
I worked at a hotel for 4 years.....& lots of the employees went out of their way to help someone when it said Dr. Y on the reservation as opposed to Mr. Y

 

[QofQuimica]

The correct answer regarding anything involving Her Special Day is whatever his future wife wants. If she wants to bestow any inappropriate title - "Dr" or "Sir" or "King," for the sake of a happy marriage, that is not a battle worth fighting.

Of course, as he is not really a doctor, he should stay out of the invitation process and quietly blame it all on his wife if someone notices the technicality.

Best answer yet.

As an aside, while it may happen, it is not okay for a non-physician to be introduced as "Doctor" for the purposes of convenience -especially to a patient. Patients have the right to know the true title and credentials of individuals who care for them -this is just as fundamental as having the right to know about (or refuse) the care being offered. Patients have a right to refuse care from students (or medical assistants v. nurses) for whatever reasons they might have. If someone is intentionally deceiving the patient (i.e. denying them information they might use to make an informed choice), this would amount to fraud.

That's easy to say, and in the abstract sense, I agree with you completely. There's no conflict when I go into a patient's room and introduce myself as "Q, a medical student with the XXX team." However, being introduced by my attending as "Dr. Quimica" before I have a chance to say anything puts me in a very awkward position. My choices are to go along with the attending's charade, or to contradict my attending in front of him/her and the patient. Not surprisingly, most med students, including myself, choose the former option. Contradicting your attending may herald your doom even if done in private, and it will probably result in the mitigated act of your murder if done in front of a patient. It often doesn't matter how you introduce yourself to patients anyway. I've had patients call me Doctor even after I've just finished telling them that I'm a student.

in the ER at our main campus, the ER residents all call the attendings by their first names. a little odd to me.

Some of the psych and anesthesiology attendings do that here too. I see it as an acknowledgment of the student as their soon-to-be colleague. One attending pointed out that the difference between a med student and an intern was one day.

 

[Pinner Doc]

in the ER at our main campus, the ER residents all call the attendings by their first names. a little odd to me.

we do that too (at my EM program). it's great. i think EM might be one of the least pretentious residencies out there.

 

[ubcredfox]

Here's a guy who called himself Doc on a party invite; maybe you could go for something similar?

His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Sea, and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular

I mean, why stop at Doctor?

 

[chemist157]

Here's a guy who called himself Doc on a party invite; maybe you could go for something similar?

His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Sea, and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular

I mean, why stop at Doctor?

I just got a wedding invite...parent's of "dr" so and so. He's a chiropractor. I wonder how he will feel when people ask him what kind of doctor he is.

 

[DrSno]

I don't use the title Doctor unless it has to do with clinical or teaching. In everything else, I am Ms. I certainly would not put Dr. on my wedding invitations as they are not business but social.

You're thinking of the common rules for PhDs; Dr. is the legal title of MDs and thus the majority use it all the time, as they should. That's why on all sorts of forms it'll have Mr., Ms., or Dr. boxes to check.

 

[Winged Scapula]

You're thinking of the common rules for PhDs; Dr. is the legal title of MDs and thus the majority use it all the time, as they should. That's why on all sorts of forms it'll have Mr., Ms., or Dr. boxes to check.

You're right in terms of the acceptability of MDs and DOs using the title Dr. on social invites. After njbmd and I posted the above, I checked several etiquette sources that stated it was permissible to use the title socially.

As for your assertion that MOST doctors do so I would beg to differ. Most physicians I know do not use the title socially and agree with me that its lame. Those that do are the ones that have license plates with some cutesy phrase including their degree, IMHO.

 

[DrSno]

As for your assertion that MOST doctors do so I would beg to differ. Most physicians I know do not use the title socially and agree with me that its lame.

Can you give me any good reasons why it's lame or have you just been infected with the egalitarian virus?

Is it "lame" when doctors use their title to try and get preferential treatment at restaurants for example?