Where do I go from here? Applying and publications?

[futureapppsy2]

(Sorry for the non-descriptive title T4C--I tried to think of a better one! Really!)


So, I have at the moment a GPA just a hair under 3.8 (psych GPA 3.9+) and a 1250 GRE (660 Q, 590 V, haven't gotten AW back yet). Not a top school, but we have a pretty good balanced clinical program if that counts for anything.

At application time, I'll have 2 years of research experience (2 semesters of multicultural, 3 [hopefully] of neuropsych/assessment, 2 of DV, 2 of child/parenting)--I have some experience in other labs here, but it probably won't make it onto my CV. I'll have theses in multicultural/education (hopefully will be done by app time but that depends on recruitment--had to leave the RA duties in the lab when I picked up the project, as my advisor wouldn't let students do both), substance misuse/personality (should be finished early this fall, all data has been collected and entered), and disability/school (could be done by application time--putting the finishing touches on my prospectus now and will likely defend my proposal this summer). Also, six semesters of psychopharm research, which I'm including just because it's with potential SSRIs, so it seems psych relevant.

Also, I'll have 1 year of a paid RAship in disability/violence psych. I'm an author (though not first) on three publications being submitted this summer, with the vague possibility of a first or second author pub as well (but that's far from set in stone). We also just submitted a poster to a conference on which I'd be second author (if it gets accepted). I'm lacking in the poster department, having only a couple of local ones which probably count for very little (though one did win a prize), so I'm hoping that we'll find additional places to submit posters/presentations. We also are probably submitting more publications this fall, though I'm not sure when or if I'll have authorship.

I'm also the PI on a project in disability/educational psych with a professor at another university. I'm working on the background now, and we hope to get it IRB approved this summer and collect our data in early fall.

Finally, I may be doing an independent study research project in parenting/child psych. Probably not a pub, but maybe a poster out of this...?

I have lots of teaching experience, psych and non-psych, both TAing and as the instructor. I'll have a recommendation that speaks to this as well as research. I'm hoping to have at least two strong LORs but haven't decided who I'll being using as the third recommender.

Clinically, I'll have two years of co-facilitating psychoed/therapy-ish groups for undergraduates for substance misuse (hence my substance misuse thesis) a year long internship at a university disability office. I'll also have more than a year (just under a year at application time) of volunteering with children in an educational setting and a partial summer of volunteering at therapeutic preschool and also at educational youth day camps.

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I have, at this point, no intention of being a full-time researcher or academic, but I would like to practice clinically and be involved with research "on the side." In school psych, people can typically do a three year EdS/PsyS degree or a PhD/PsyD (PsyD's in school psych tend to run like balanced, well-funded PhDs), and while there are a few EdS programs I like, I think I'd prefer a PhD/PsyD, for the broader scope of practice, greater researcher training, and better funding. I also think doctoral programs might put more credance into my research experience (which is related to my research interests) while specialist programs may "ding" me for only having about a year of intensive child experience (I have some intermittent volunteering experience with children for my freshman and sophomore years, but nothing regular). Yet, it may be risky to put all or most of my eggs in the PhD/PsyD basket, so to speak.

My question:
Do non-first author pubs "matter"? I've read varying things--both that they're good and that doctoral programs don't really give them much credance unless thy're first author, so I'm confused. If the latter is the case, applying to doctoral programs seems especially risky.

Also, does it look odd/worrisome to have more publications than presentations/posters?

Thanks!

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[JockNerd]

No grad program would expect applicants to have first author papers at grad school app time, unless they spent years in an RA position after undergrad. Your stats sound outstanding to me; I wouldn't worry. You should have no trouble getting into a balanced funded program.

 

[hopefulpsych]

It's stats like your's that make me very worried about my own applications next year! You sound like you have had amazing experiences, good luck!

 

[Wildcat06]

See! You're psyching out the other applicants (no pun intended)! You'll be just fine.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Well, you can thank the amazing psyching out all the faculty and grad students here engage in for that--such as the person with eight years of professional research experience and a first author publication who applied only to get 10 rejections and 3 waitlists, only one of which became an acceptance. Hearing those stories spooks the bones.

Of course, if all our pubs get rejected that would truly suck, but that seems relatively unlikely given that these are a) either requested articles or b) spring from competitive grant funded research. Here's to hoping for the best, I guess...

 

[JockNerd]

Well, you can thank the amazing psyching out all the faculty and grad students here engage in for that--such as the person with eight years of professional research experience and a first author publication who applied only to get 10 rejections and 3 waitlists, only one of which became an acceptance. Hearing those stories spooks the bones.

Of course, if all our pubs get rejected that would truly suck, but that seems relatively unlikely given that these are a) either requested articles or b) spring from competitive grant funded research. Here's to hoping for the best, I guess...

Your example might be a nice example of the converse of your situation; eight years of research experience with only 1 first-author pub might raise way more flags than applying right out of undergrad without any. And, then, there's all the questions of did your colleague make sure all the profs he/she applied to were actually taking students, did he/she check for fit with the program, etc.

Even without the pubs, your application sounds very competitive to me.

 

[Ollie123]

Well, you can thank the amazing psyching out all the faculty and grad students here engage in for that--such as the person with eight years of professional research experience and a first author publication who applied only to get 10 rejections and 3 waitlists, only one of which became an acceptance. Hearing those stories spooks the bones.

Of course, if all our pubs get rejected that would truly suck, but that seems relatively unlikely given that these are a) either requested articles or b) spring from competitive grant funded research. Here's to hoping for the best, I guess...

Folks do that because half the "grad school hopefuls" think its like applying to college where anyone with over a 3.0 can get in somewhere, even if they've done nothing else. As JN said, there is almost always more to those stories. They applied to the wrong places, their first author pub was in "Local Psychology Newsletter" and embarassingly bad, they had 8 years of experience where they weren't allowed to do anything but make reminder calls because no one trusted them...etc. You just don't know unless you have the details. You're in better shape than most. And that still doesn't mean you'll get accepted, in which case you suck it up, work for a couple years, and give it another try just like everyone else Applying to doctoral programs is not "risky". You don't lose anything other than some money and time.

 

[cara susanna]

I got in with only 2 years of research experience, so that says something right there. It's all about fit, IMO.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Your example might be a nice example of the converse of your situation; eight years of research experience with only 1 first-author pub might raise way more flags than applying right out of undergrad without any. And, then, there's all the questions of did your colleague make sure all the profs he/she applied to were actually taking students, did he/she check for fit with the program, etc.

Even without the pubs, your application sounds very competitive to me.

Yeah, I think in this case the problem was probably low GPA (3.2) and lack of ability to convey "fit" (prior research experience had no relationship to area of interest). But I guess in the end he did get in, regardless, so...

that still doesn't mean you'll get accepted, in which case you suck it up, work for a couple years, and give it another try just like everyone else

Oh, most definitely. Fortunately, we have at least one three year grant coming in and few others that are TBD, so there's a possibility I could stay at my current RAship. I wouldn't be rolling in the dough by any means, but with some supplementry teaching, it would be liveable.

It's all about fit, IMO

With the exception of a few people I've met who don't "fit" that well with their PIs (I believe some of them may have been under a previous faculty member who moved elsewhere), I agree. People don't really seem to get that--it took about 12 months of explaining "research match" to my mom (in response to "why would you apply to university x...? Why not university z?") for the concept to make sense to her. I think this is more prevelant in psych than a lot of other fields, in part because it such a broad field.

 

[cara susanna]

Tell me about it, everyone I know was like "Are you applying to UW Madison?" and I had to explain clinical vs research focus etc etc.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Yeah, my mom was thrilled when I found a potential research match at our local U. But now she needs to understand the "I probably won't get in there" part.

 

[terpskins10]

Yeah, my mom was thrilled when I found a potential research match at our local U. But now she needs to understand the "I probably won't get in there" part.

Same! She's having a hard time understanding the difference between applying to undergrad vs. applying to grad programs.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Same! She's having a hard time understanding the difference between applying to undergrad vs. applying to grad programs.

Yes, mine, too!

So, back on topic--does anyone have any suggestions, see any potential holes? Potential areas of concern? Things I should focus on?

 

[ClinicalTrainee]

I agree with whoever said it's mostly about fit. It sounds like you have a pretty impressive research background, so (a) apply to people who are good matches for what you want to study and (b) tailor your personal statement to indicate why the experience you've had is relevant for the experiences that you want.

Let me tell you, I think one of the major flaws in personal statements (having just reviewed several) is that people focus too much on what they've done and not enough on what they've taken from those experiences. I would rather hear about what someone has learned or wants to do than be given a laundry list of accomplishments. Absolutely mention your accomplishments, but in the context of how those accomplishments fit in with future goals or lessons learned.

And, for the record, I'm in my 5th year of graduate school and my mom STILL doesn't understand. She always asks me 'what classes are you taking this semester?" and has yet to figure out what internship is. She made me a pair of pants last year with psychadelic crazy faces on them because she thought they looked Freudian (although I'm in a very CBT-based program).

 

[futureapppsy2]

Let me tell you, I think one of the major flaws in personal statements (having just reviewed several) is that people focus too much on what they've done and not enough on what they've taken from those experiences. I would rather hear about what someone has learned or wants to do than be given a laundry list of accomplishments. Absolutely mention your accomplishments, but in the context of how those accomplishments fit in with future goals or lessons learned.

Thanks. This is the approach I've taken to contacting professors (talk about how my previous experience influences my interest in XYZ), and so far, it seems to have done well.

 

[Wildcat06]

Let me tell you, I think one of the major flaws in personal statements (having just reviewed several) is that people focus too much on what they've done and not enough on what they've taken from those experiences. I would rather hear about what someone has learned or wants to do than be given a laundry list of accomplishments. Absolutely mention your accomplishments, but in the context of how those accomplishments fit in with future goals or lessons learned.

This is GREAT advice for applicants. I think sometimes people forget that the admission committee will also have a copy of their CV and thus rehashing your accomplishments is repetitive and wastes your chance to give them more insight about you as a person and would-be psychologist. Don't forget the "personal" part of the personal statement. I think a big part of a successful application is showing them your UNIQUE perspective and talents.