Which degree for community college professorship?

[alt26]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to figure out what graduate degree I should be pursuing and hear some thoughts or insights into how I can make this dream a reality. My end goal is to teach psychology at a community college. My time at community college was incredible and I want to be like some of the really inspirational professors I had. I think university professorship, while appealing, scares me away a little with the countless anecdotes about publish or parish.

Additionally to this, as a secondary objective, I am interested in clinical work in some capacity. Both because I believe having my foot in clinical will help my ability to teach and be closer to my material, but also because working with and helping others is one of the greatest feelings there is for me.

In a perfect scenario I'd like to get a masters program for counselling or something similar that allows me to learn clinical with the ability to get some kind of teaching experience so I can go into teaching. But I'm not sure if that's even possible since I haven't heard of masters programs allowing for that.

Alternatively there's the psyd/phd route. But I'm hesitant on it. I applied for phd programs two years ago, only got one interview out of 12ish applications and wasn't accepted. Since then I've lost contact with academic references and my new references would just be my supervisors at my current job (I'm an RBT doing aba therapy). So I'm a little nervous about not being accepted. My previous applications were all phd though, and I know psyd are more accepting, but the cost of a psyd and lack of funding comparable to a phd means I'm reaching out here to ask first for anyone's thoughts on all this.

I appreciate any input that can be provided, thank you!

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[AcronymAllergy]

I'll defer to others in academia with more experience in the area, but my initial thoughts: Ph.D. would probably be the safest bet overall as far as getting experience teaching while in training and then being an attractive job applicant afterward, while also being able to provide clinical services. However, I've certainly seen community colleges (and even large universities) have masters-level instructors.

I honestly don't know what the full-time job situation looks like for a community college or how those job hunts would look compared to more traditional academia. I have to think that for the limited number of full-time positions they might have, a doctorate would be preferred, but I honestly have no idea. I imagine many/most community college instructors work on an adjunct/part-time basis, and I know the pay for those positions typically is not stellar.

Edit: adding to what WisNeuro mentioned below, most folks I know who teach at community colleges (much like those who adjunct at larger universities) do it because they enjoy and want to stay involved in teaching rather than to earn a living. They may also get some limited benefits like library access. Last I heard, the pay was usually around a few thousand dollars per course, but that might've changed.

 

[WisNeuro]

Looked at one of the nearby local ones here. Smattering of master's level, diploma mills (including Capella), and one legitimate PhD on faculty. I have seen job postings for both adjunct and FT positions here, though, and neither is something I would reasonably consider, unless I just loved teaching enough to want to take a pretty massive pay cut. There may be some cushier positions out there, but not in this n of 1.

 

[Fluidity of Movement]

(using quotes to signify the job title difference of adjunct instructor vs professor positions, even though adjuncts in many (or all) cases should be considered and referred to as professor).

Not an expert:

My school all you needed is a master's degree. So getting a clinical degree didn't really matter versus a research degree. But adjuncts here are called "instructors" so I don't know what is required to work your way up versus just applying straight to a position.

And yes, adjunct pay is terrible. If you make 3 grand per class consider yourself fortunate. CCs generally won't have a lot of actual "professor" positions as far as I can tell. But I can also say, most of our "professor" positions are not PhDs, to include our department heads / top profs.

I think your plan is a great idea tbh, especially given the flexibility that CC gives and virtual / hybrid / Night class options if you did need to work full time elsewhere to bring in cash and still teach on the side, or vice=versa. Both lend to great amounts of flexibility and WFH options.

 

[Sanman]

My opinion is sit down and think hard about what you really want to do and how much money you want to make. The issue with psychology is that many PhDs like to adjunct. A friend offered me an in years ago because teach two courses and you qualified for health insurance. Many PP folks liked that benefit if they enjoyed adjuncting. Full time teaching means being geographically flexible and being okay with not so great pay.

You can go PhD and be overqualified. You may be able to go LCSW and teach because way fewer PhDs around. You can opt for a non clinical track and have much better chances of landing a teaching gig, bit then you cut out the flexibility and pay of clinical work. Alternatively, get the clinical degree you want and look for adjunct opportunities.

 

[summerbabe]

Agree with the advice to focus on your clinical degree first and foremost. I’d also consider the following:

1. How much of it is an itch to give back/have this experience versus genuine desire to do it the rest of your working career? I’ve had a lot of part time jobs or internships that were cool but I definitely wouldn’t want that as my career.

2. Higher education is 100% a bubble will bust/deflate (it’s already happening in ‘minor’ ways like the heavy shift to cheap adjuncts). I worked in college student affairs about a decade and a half ago and it’s pretty ridiculous how colleges are spending money and over investing in non-educational services like facilities and support staff (I was one of them). Community college enrollments also seem to susceptible to waves so these places are especially sensitive to public funding and tuition dips. I’m not sure if I would want to hitch my career on some of these dynamics, even if the work can be very worthwhile (which speaks to having a clinical degree that should always put a roof over your head).

Good luck!

 

[ClinicalABA]

Lot's of good advice above. I'd add that you should reach out to some of the very same professors/instructors that inspired you and ask them about their experiences, education, what led them to the CC position, etc. That just seems to make the most sense to me- if you want to be like them, go to the source for information on how to achieve that goal. Also, it would be really nice for them to get the feedback that they really had a positive impact on you. It is also good "practice" with the often under-rated skill of networking.

Like others above, I looked at the faculty at my local CC (where my son just happens to be enrolled too). They list 5 psychology faculty- 4 are Ph.D.s, from respectable university based doctoral programs- clinical, social, and applied psychology. The other is from and LICSW program, so looks like that might be an option too. Those with license-eligible degrees all seemed to have a private practice gig on the side (or as a primary source of income, with the teaching secondary- I really couldn't tell). At least one other listed an affiliation with a local State U (the second tier of state higher education, behind the University-of-Mass system). Take that for what you will, but it could be a sign that these aren't full-time equivalent gigs.

The local State U has a graduate program in clinical social work (where my other child just happens to be enrolling next year!) where the courses are primarily taught by MA level faculty (mix of full time and adjunct) with related degrees in clinical social work. That could also be a way to combine your interest in teaching and having a clinical practice, both with a MA degree.

Please don't do something foolish like enroll in an expense professional school PsyD (or Ph.D.) program and take out crazy loans if your goal is therapy practice and CC instructing!

 

[WisNeuro]

As an aside, I do have an older family member who used to be faculty at a CC with a doctorate. The impression that I get is that these used to be fairly cushy positions, where one could make six figures, with a pension/benefits for just teaching (i.e., little to no research responsibility) when one was their equivalent of tenure. It would appear that this is far from the case for most people getting into these positions now.

OP, if you do talk to people in these positions, I would suggest making sure you talk to some early career folks to get a good idea of what their contracts are like now, as opposed to people who have been doing it for decades and likely have grandfathered contracts.

 

[ClinicalABA]

I was curious and just looked at position listings for the local CC I was talking about above. They have a current opening for a Human Services Department faculty. Position requires a "Master's degree in Human Services, Social Work, Psychology or related discipline." Pay range is 56-70K, depending on experience. Salary is subject to the CBA, so probably not a lot of room for negotiation. That pay rate is not good relative to what full-time doctoral level psychologist could/should make in a clinical job, but might be good for an MA level position. I'm not up on hard-money academia salaries, so don't know how that compares. Depending on the course load, other responsibilities, I'd consider it for an end of career, "I'm done with the real 9-5 clinical job" type of gig- basically teaching 100-200 level courses, some remotely.

 

[calimich]

adding an n of 2 here
Two friends are making a career at the CCs. One is dean of arts & sciences (or a similar title) and has a non-licensable psych phd. Their career trajectory went something like this: began as a research psychologist, got experience writing & managing federal grants, took a job running a 5-yr grant at a small college, became dean at a cc, spends most days on campus. Other is a tenured cc psych prof and has a lucrative forensic-focused private practice, they are a licensed psychologist with a phd in counseling psych. Career path something like: assessment focused practicums during doc school, assessment focused internship, forensic postdoc, straight to cc tenure-track job, licensed in yr 2, opens practice, spends days alternating between teaching on campus, working in pp office, and testifying in court.
Both report being very happy

 

[WisNeuro]

adding an n of 2 here
Two friends are making a career at the CCs. One is dean of arts & sciences (or a similar title) and has a non-licensable psych phd. Their career trajectory went something like this: began as a research psychologist, got experience writing & managing federal grants, took a job running a 5-yr grant at a small college, became dean at a cc, spends most days on campus. Other is a tenured cc psych prof and has a lucrative forensic-focused private practice, they are a licensed psychologist with a phd in counseling psych. Career path something like: assessment focused practicums during doc school, assessment focused internship, forensic postdoc, straight to cc tenure-track job, licensed in yr 2, opens practice, spends days alternating between teaching on campus, working in pp office, and testifying in court.
Both report being very happy

I have to assume that the pp/forensic work is the clear Lion's Share of this person's yearly compensation? IF you just love teaching, or a place miraculously has good benefits, it makes sense to do this. But, I wonder about people whose only jobs are FT faculty at a CC. What is the per hour breakdown of compensation?

 

[Sanman]

I have to assume that the pp/forensic work is the clear Lion's Share of this person's yearly compensation? IF you just love teaching, or a place miraculously has good benefits, it makes sense to do this. But, I wonder about people whose only jobs are FT faculty at a CC. What is the per hour breakdown of compensation?

Looked up some faculty at an old CC near my state college. Assistant prof pay seemed to go from $40-65k for someone with a masters in counseling.$48-75k with a PhD.

 

[MAClinician]

Psychology & Behavioral Science jobs | Community College

 

[ThatPsyGuy]

I have to assume that the pp/forensic work is the clear Lion's Share of this person's yearly compensation? IF you just love teaching, or a place miraculously has good benefits, it makes sense to do this. But, I wonder about people whose only jobs are FT faculty at a CC. What is the per hour breakdown of compensation?

Looked up some faculty at an old CC near my state college. Assistant prof pay seemed to go from $40-65k for someone with a masters in counseling.$48-75k with a PhD.

Was also looking at CC faculty salaries just out of curiosity a couple of weeks ago. Some cities have public Salary Compensation reports.

These are the following for the City Colleges of Chicago: City Colleges of Chicago Employee Salary Data Portal
Most full-time (30hr) tenured Psych/Social Sciences professors are making $120k+ (I'm unsure about if they're all Psych-related credentials however)
Assistant/Associate professors are looking like $80k-$110k.

I'm not really familiar with the pay structure or contracts though. And I probably just looked at a couple of outliers looking at about 30+ salaries. But that's what I see

EDIT: Here's the employee directory if you're interested A considerable amount of full Professors have MAs. And you're able to see their credentials there as well. In general, for tenured faculty, it's looking like $80k-$120k ish. Full-time Instructors/Lecturers $60k-90k.