Which Medical School? The Tough Decision

[premedstudenttt]

I am trying to choose between two medical schools. I have asked medical students, residents, and other knowledgeable individuals. Most will give me an answer, but not with enough justification. One of the schools is relatively new (lets refer to it as School A); thus, most people I have spoken with advise me to choose the other school (School B) because of its longer history, reputation, etc. I have read through the forums on sdn. Many users rank School A last compared to other schools in the same state. I don't really understand how they are reaching this conclusion.

Instead of just asking which school I should go to, I would prefer to better understand how to make the correct decision. So, I would like to know what factors to consider as well as their relative importance. I have listed a few below as an example.

1. Average Step 1 Score
2. Match List
3. Curriculum
4. Research Opportunities
5. Reputation
....

Ideally, if one could list all the potential factors to consider and weight them then that would be useful. Although its an subjective waiting, it still provides more information. An example is below:

1. Average Step 1 Score /100
2. Match List /100
3. Curriculum /70
4. Research Opportunities /50
5. Reputation /40
Total /360

Any help is appreciated.

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[WedgeDawg]

If you don't say which schools you're looking at, you're probably not going to get any meaningful advice.

Edit: also, as many people have said on many threads here, match list and average step 1 score are terrible metrics for deciding which school you should attend.

Edit2: You should figure out what :you: want from your medical school and then decide which school fits your wants more closely.

 

[premedstudenttt]

UTMB and TTUHSC Foster SOM.

What metrics are relevant then?

 

[redpanda]

In no particular order though I feel #1 is rather important:

1. Gut feeling on happiness of the students with the program
2. Supportiveness of the program in reaching your goals (curricular change, electives, aways, clerkships, specialty selection, residency matching)
3. Research opportunities if you want them
4. Location - do you actually want to be in that place for 4 years?
5. Money - are there major financial advantages of being in one place over another?

Notice that Step 1 scores and match list are not actually here.

 

[premedstudenttt]

In no particular order though I feel #1 is rather important:

1. Gut feeling on happiness of the students with the program
2. Supportiveness of the program in reaching your goals (curricular change, electives, aways, clerkships, specialty selection, residency matching)
3. Research opportunities if you want them
4. Location - do you actually want to be in that place for 4 years?
5. Money - are there major financial advantages of being in one place over another?

Notice that Step 1 scores and match list are not actually here.

That helps a lot. Thank you very much!

 

[Catalystik]

1) Which one has the least expensive cost of attendance, after financial aid offers are available?
2) Which is closest to home and/or support system?

After that, consider safety of the area, weather, available recreational/fine arts venues that you might actually use, job availability for SO, curriculum type, grading system, availability of off-site lecture availability/requirement for attending classes

Here is a multi-page thread that discusses other soft-factors: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/application-process-looking-back-as-a-4th-year.104541/

It's for you to decide what factors you care about, to rank them/assign a numerical value, and then fill out a decision grid to see which school comes out ahead, based on what YOU think is important.

 

[qtpai]

Average Step 1 score seems relevant to me, personally.

Being high doesn't necessarily mean the school is where I would want to be: a high Step score may simply mean more qualified students. But being low would set off a red flag: I would suspect low standards in teaching.

As far as research.

There may be slightly better research opportunities at UTMB, but I wouldn't let that affect my decision. Medical school research is unedifying to most students; the reason it is emphasized is that it helps to move the grant machine along for professors and the institution (prestige is often wrongly associated with research dollars).

If your goal is advancement toward an academic career or to a prestigious residency, considerations of research opportunities might be useful. If you simply want to be a great physician, you can do without it. If you are interested in academic medicine or a prestigious residency, you should ask yourself why; if you can give a good reason, then the difference in research opportunities might play some significant role in your decision.

One other consideration, not an unimportant one, is how you felt on your interview. Where was the vibe better? I would argue that it is easier for the interviewee to judge the school, than the school to judge the interviewee, and this should be heeded, in my view.

The question of reputation is a long-debated one. But I don't think there is a substantial difference between the two. Both of them will probably offer a similar quality medical education.

Personally, between UTMB and TTUHSC Foster, I would go for whatever is more inexpensive. Overall, cost would be my chief consideration.

Any decent school should be able to give you the opportunities you need to get a good Step score, to match well, etc. And both UTMB and TTUHSC Foster are decent schools.

Summary.

If research is really important to you, you might look at UTMB; if you are lukewarm about research, I would recommend going for cost. If cost is the same either way, you should weigh your vibe with your research interest. This, at least, is how I would make the decision.

 

[Sportsdude89]

Agree with everything posted so far. Might also consider how much faculty is involved during third and fourth year rotations, how willing faculty are to teach, and how much students are allowed to do.

 

[karayaa]

No one has mentioned clinical factors so far. If you want to be a top clinician, I would ask about responsibilities/scope during ms3/4: can you catch babies, insert lines, do a pap smear? And how much responsibility do you have for patients?
Are there rotations at a county or VA hospital? They tend to offer a greater scope of hands-on training.

Maybe @mimelim has some ideas about how to assess clinical factors.

 

[redpanda]

No one has mentioned clinical factors so far. If you want to be a top clinician, I would ask about responsibilities/scope during ms3/4: can you catch babies, insert lines, do a pap smear? And how much responsibility do you have for patients?
Are there rotations at a county or VA hospital? They tend to offer a greater scope of hands-on training.

Maybe @mimelim has some ideas about how to assess clinical factors.

Honestly, I think I include this in "how happy are the students" part of my post because no one wants to spend half of MS3 shadowing or whatever. A lot of this is talking to MS3/MS4s, which is something that you unfortunately don't get a lot of opportunity to do on interview day (but great for second look). I know that everyone would love some quantitative measure to plug into a spreadsheet to turn out the magic answer (a la making a residency rank list), but I think the decision making is still going to be qualitative and going with one's gut feeling.

 

[Goro]

Here's my take: consider match list, boards scores, curriculum, cost of living, cost of tuition, proximity to home/family/support groups and your fit to the place. Can you be happy there for the next four years? Consider location as well. While most med schools are in big cities, not all are. Would you be happy in, say, Worchester MA vs NYC? vs Philly, PA

I am trying to choose between two medical schools. I have asked medical students, residents, and other knowledgeable individuals. Most will give me an answer, but not with enough justification. One of the schools is relatively new (lets refer to it as School A); thus, most people I have spoken with advise me to choose the other school (School B) because of its longer history, reputation, etc. I have read through the forums on sdn. Many users rank School A last compared to other schools in the same state. I don't really understand how they are reaching this conclusion.

Instead of just asking which school I should go to, I would prefer to better understand how to make the correct decision. So, I would like to know what factors to consider as well as their relative importance. I have listed a few below as an example.

1. Average Step 1 Score
2. Match List
3. Curriculum
4. Research Opportunities
5. Reputation
....

Ideally, if one could list all the potential factors to consider and weight them then that would be useful. Although its an subjective waiting, it still provides more information. An example is below:

1. Average Step 1 Score /100
2. Match List /100
3. Curriculum /70
4. Research Opportunities /50
5. Reputation /40
Total /360

Any help is appreciated.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I would personally choose utmb as I wouldn't want to live in El Paso

 

[karayaa]

Here's my take: consider match list, boards scores, curriculum, cost of living, cost of tuition, proximity to home/family/support groups and your fit to the place. Can you be happy there for the next four years? Consider location as well. While most med schools are in big cities, not all are. Would you be happy in, say, Worchester MA vs NYC? vs Philly, PA

Goro, how do you evaluate match lists? I've heard a lot of criticism about using them as a criterion.

 

[clairephillips]

Having done a lot of reading, the primary reason Foster is ranked so low is location. It is a phenomenal school and all the medical students I've spoken with are very happy with the school. I wouldn't pay much mind to others rankings if the location isn't a big deal to you.

 

[Goro]

I'm still learning as to what exactly constitutes a good residency. To my little brain a university hospital impresses me, but I may be way off base. But the Mayo Clinic, for one, or Beth Israel Hospital has to count for something.

My colleagues @mimelim, @DermViser, @gyngyn and @wingedscapula can certainly add to this better than I can.

Goro, how do you evaluate match lists? I've heard a lot of criticism about using them as a criterion.

 

[Silverflash]

They're both good schools, you can't make a poor choice here. I prefer the location of UTMB; El Paso is pretty far away from, well, everything, while Galveston is right next to Houston. I've heard really good things about El Paso's surgical rotations though, so if that's something you're particularly interested in it might be a factor.

 

[ace12345]

Something far too few people told me at this point in the process: Wait to see the cost of attendance AFTER receiving your financial aid package. This radically changed my decision-making process, even after thinking I was well past deciding. Unless money in no object whatsoever, I wouldn't decide anything until that point.

 

[Slack3r]

Go to UTMB. Good reputation outside of Texas, residencies in many competitive fields, Galveston/Houston > El Paso.

I'm assuming since you're in Texas, this schools with both be comparable CoA-wise, assuming you don't get an exorbitant scholarship from one or the other.

 

[premedstudenttt]

Hypothetically if I wanted a competitive residency, what should I be considering?

I know kevinbass mentioned research.

Karayaa mentioned MS3/MS4 experiences.

When speaking with MS3/MS4 students, what should I be looking for specifically?

I have looked at match lists for both schools from 2011 and had the opportunity to see a more recent one from El Paso. I noticed many students were matched to schools like Baylor, Southwestern, and UTH. A few exceptional ones matched at Mayo and even Hopkins (I think its safe to say that UTMB probably has a few exceptional students as well).

So I am a complete noob to match lists. I did notice that a lot of UTMB students matched competitive specialties at UTMB. To me, it seems like if I wanted a competitive specialty then I would more likely get matched at UTMB because they have more specialties there compared to El Paso. There were less students matching to competitive specialties at El Paso. I assume that all Texas medical students compete for those residency spots. Is there any benefit to attending the institution that you intend to match with? For example, do you have the opportunity to interact with someone who makes the decision for orthopedic residency spots during your MS3/MS4 rotations?

As for my gut feeling, its basically a coin toss. I got a slightly, and I emphasize slightly, better vibe at El Paso, but its really hard to justify a decision based solely on a vibe.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm still learning as to what exactly constitutes a good residency. To my little brain a university hospital impresses me, but I may be way off base. But the Mayo Clinic, for one, or Beth Israel Hospital has to count for something.

My colleagues @mimelim, @Dermviserm, @gyngyn and @wingedscapula can certainly add to this better than I can.

What may be unapparent to the outside observer is that well known institutions may have awful residency programs in specific specialties. There are many famous schools known for laughable surgical training. Only insiders know the difference.

 

[Afford]

Go with your gut. They're both good schools.

 

[FutureOncologist]

MS3 here. Let me break it down for you.

First two years will be almost the exact same everywhere else: you're studying, and you're studying HARD. Don't get me wrong, I had free time to do weightlifting and go out a few weekends every two months, but you will be expected to learn a lot in a small block of time. Don't let the whole "all of our lectures are recorded and they have no attendance policy!" sales pitch win you over. That's true at almost every other medical school. Same thing with almost every other aspect.

3rd and 4th year. What you should be looking at is residency programs and their quality. My school did a pretty decent job at keeping us from getting bored (only some scut, let us get hands on a bit, what residency programs are available, etc.) Hell, some programs I applied to didn't have a neuro rotation, which is something I was interested in at the time... If you can contact some medical students you met from the interviews, ask about their residency experience. If they give you mixed/bad reviews in comparison to medical school B, it may interest you to really look at the other school.

I'd say match lists are irrelevant. Just focus on you (as well as your potential partner for couple's match.)