Who do you admit?

[DirkN]

It's the middle of the summer, we're all waiting on responses from schools, and I thought we could play a little activity.

You're a member of the admissions committee for a private school with a slight preference towards in-state students, and the following five students are all applying for your school's final two spots. Who do you take?

Assume all are the same race/ethnicity, come from the same undergraduate university, and impressed in their interviews.

School's Median Stats: 3.7 GPA/35 MCAT

Student A:

3.73 GPA
35 MCAT
500 hours hospital volunteering
500 hours clinical research with a publication
Strong personal statement/Letters of Recommendation
No Leadership Experience
In-State

Student B:

3.62 GPA
38 MCAT
700 Hours Hospital volunteering
700 Hours Lab-based Research, no publication
Strong Personal Statement/Letters of Recommendation
Strong Leadership Experience
Out of State

Student C:

3.82 GPA
31 MCAT
1000 Hours Hospital volunteering
1000 Hours Research with a publication in a major journal
Strong Personal Statement/Letters of Recommendation
Strong Leadership Experience
Out of State

Student D:

3.7 GPA
34 MCAT
2000 Hours Hospital Volunteering
2000 Hours Research with 2 publications
Strong Personal Statement/Letters of Recommendation
Strong Leadership Experience
In-State

Student E:

3.8 GPA
37 MCAT
300 Hours Hospital Volunteering
50 Hours of Research
Decent Personal Statement/Letters of Recommendation
No Leadership Experience
Out of State


Which 2 do you choose?

Feel fee to pose your own scenarios in your responses for others to respond to!

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[lmn]

Depends on the current composition of the class and the desired overall composition as well as what the quality of the applicants are in an interview and the quality of their different experiences and what they bring to the table as a person. Long story short, it depends on a lot more information than what you provided unless you want to just play random black and white picking based off stats.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

What are the school's median stats?

 

[Taco Time]

If all three apply broadly and early, they should get in somewhere. Other than that, it's a crapshoot. The process is seeped in ambiguity. There's no easy way to really determine who will get in--especially at a single university. Applicants with apps like these are in good shape.

 

[gyngyn]

If you are asking who gets an interview, it will vary on the school, its yield in each of theses ranges, and the resources available to the admissions office.

 

[DirkN]

Updated to include median stats and interview abilities! This is just a fun exercise, feel free to state who you would admit based on your own standards

 

[claduva94]

Personally I'd give it to student A and B.
IS has an obvious advantage.
I don't think the extra hours on student C could at all compensate for a 7 point difference on the MCAT.

 

[DrJonesenberg]

The correct answer is A and B. Any other answers are wrong

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Student A + B -- stats FTW

 

[DirkN]

Updated to include a student D. Again, feel free to post your own scenarios!

 

[Mad Jack]

Students A and D, obviously. Unless C is a URM, in which case, C and A.

 

[Lawpy]

A and B win. 1000 hours hospital volunteering is unnecessarily overkill and bland so C is punished. B is lucky the MCAT covered this flaw

Edit: D is also sadly out because of 2000 hours of hospital volunteering (major red flag). A shame because everything else looks great

 

[Theafoni]

In state despite the lack of leadership.

 

[DirkN]

Final update I promise, just want to make it more challenging! Pick any 2 of the 5!

 

[claduva94]

Then I would do B & D but the distinction between A, B and D would be slim.

 

[Lawpy]

E also loses with mediocre ECs.

Final answer: A and B win

 

[Taco Time]

Students A and D, obviously. Unless C is a URM, in which case, C and A.

What if Student C was the first author in a journal like Nature or NEJM? I forgot the applicant, but there was some on SDN who had a similar story either this past cycle or the one before--decent stats, retook a 27 MCAT and got a like a 33, and got a full-ride to UCLA. She credited her acceptance and scholarship in part because the school was impressed with her research.

 

[DirkN]

What if Student C was the first author in a journal like Nature or NEJM? I forgot the applicant, but there was some on SDN who had a similar story either this past cycle or the one before--decent stats, retook a 27 MCAT and got a like a 33, and got a full-ride to UCLA. She credited her acceptance and scholarship in part because the school was impressed with her research.

This is more along the lines of what I was thinking when I mentioned "major journal"

 

[Lawpy]

The main algorithm in selecting applicants (assuming this is from a Top 20 holistic overview) is GPA, MCAT and research. Hospital volunteering is a joke beyond 150-200 hours, and same with shadowing.

Highest GPA and MCAT with extensive research win, so A and B both win

 

[DirkN]

Lawper really has it out for you if you have more than 1000 hours of hospital volunteering. Beware, applicants.

 

[NYCNative]

B + D

 

[DermViser]

Student B and D. Obviously.

 

[el_duderino]

I don't get how people are not picking D. D is my first choice. It would be tough between C and B after that; it would depend on the rest of the class. I'd lean towards B, but might pick C if we're looking for another person with research experience.

 

[orangeman25]

31 MCAT loses

 

[snowflakes]

D and B.

 

[Ismet]

Just fo fun. B & D. A lot of this depends on the school. If you're at a top 20 research institution, the research experience is a big plus. If you're at a primary care-focused school, it's less of an important factor, and actually the people with a ton of research may not be as likely to matriculate there.

 

[Ismet]

Lawper really has it out for you if you have more than 1000 hours of hospital volunteering. Beware, applicants.

I mean, 1000 hours is an impressive number, but it doesn't really mean you're more cut out for medical school than someone with 500 or someone with 200. 1000 hours is pretty well past the point of diminishing returns. If it's something you're really passionate about, great, go for it. But if you're like most pre-meds and hospital volunteering is just a thing you do because you "have to," there's better things you can do with several hundred of those hours.

 

[allantois]

They are all competitive

 

[Ismet]

They are all competitive

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

 

[Lawpy]

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

Great book

 

[Ismet]

Great book

It's my favorite.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Student E. I'll bet you that he's the only truthful one.

 

[Lawpy]

Ah damn. I mistook D for C. B and D win this, followed by E, A and C (for duping me)

 

[hoihaie]

D and B

 

[LostinLift]

D in the B

 

[drnk12]

B n' D

 

[Lamel]

If I could pick only 1, I'd pick B.

Diminishing returns with 700 hours of something vs. 2000.

 

[Mad Jack]

What if Student C was the first author in a journal like Nature or NEJM? I forgot the applicant, but there was some on SDN who had a similar story either this past cycle or the one before--decent stats, retook a 27 MCAT and got a like a 33, and got a full-ride to UCLA. She credited her acceptance and scholarship in part because the school was impressed with her research.

Totally school dependent. That's why this whole exercise doesn't work- different schools like different things. UCLA may like research, but other schools may have a focus on diversity or non-research ECs.

 

[DirkN]

It sounds like a lot of you value a high MCAT over a high GPA. Is this the case?

 

[el_duderino]

It sounds like a lot of you value a high MCAT over a high GPA. Is this the case?

None of the listed students have low GPAs. The lowest is a 3.62 which is hardly distinguishable from a 3.7 or even a 3.8 given the variability of undergrad institutions. The 38 is a monster score, though. The difference between a 31 and 38 is way, way, way more significant than the difference between a 3.62 and 3.82.

 

[Ismet]

It sounds like a lot of you value a high MCAT over a high GPA. Is this the case?

I wasn't looking at stats honestly. They're all good. All but C are quite competitive for top schools, and even C wouldn't be a complete write off.

 

[Goro]

OK, I'll play. All five are essentially clones of each other. OK, one has a much lower MCAT. But what's the floor for MCAT scores? How does my Dean feel about those numbers? If I like all of them, I'll admit all of them and let the Adcom wrestle with the decision. If the wily old Admissions dean says "You can only pick two, Dr Goro", then it will be the two I like the best. It's a fool's errand to pick only on numbers.

It's the middle of the summer, we're all waiting on responses from schools, and I thought we could play a little activity.

You're a member of the admissions committee for a private school with a slight preference towards in-state students, and the following five students are all applying for your school's final two spots. Who do you take?

Assume all are the same race/ethnicity, come from the same undergraduate university, and impressed in their interviews.

School's Median Stats: 3.7 GPA/35 MCAT

Student A:

3.73 GPA
35 MCAT
500 hours hospital volunteering
500 hours clinical research with a publication
Strong personal statement/Letters of Recommendation
No Leadership Experience
In-State

Student B:

3.62 GPA
38 MCAT
700 Hours Hospital volunteering
700 Hours Lab-based Research, no publication
Strong Personal Statement/Letters of Recommendation
Strong Leadership Experience
Out of State

Student C:

3.82 GPA
31 MCAT
1000 Hours Hospital volunteering
1000 Hours Research with a publication in a major journal
Strong Personal Statement/Letters of Recommendation
Strong Leadership Experience
Out of State

Student D:

3.7 GPA
34 MCAT
2000 Hours Hospital Volunteering
2000 Hours Research with 2 publications
Strong Personal Statement/Letters of Recommendation
Strong Leadership Experience
In-State

Student E:

3.8 GPA
37 MCAT
300 Hours Hospital Volunteering
50 Hours of Research
Decent Personal Statement/Letters of Recommendation
No Leadership Experience
Out of State


Which 2 do you choose?

Feel fee to pose your own scenarios in your responses for others to respond to!

 

[HinduHammer]

It's the middle of the summer, we're all waiting on responses from schools, and I thought we could play a little activity.

You're a member of the admissions committee for a private school with a slight preference towards in-state students, and the following five students are all applying for your school's final two spots. Who do you take?

Assume all are the same race/ethnicity, come from the same undergraduate university, and impressed in their interviews.

School's Median Stats: 3.7 GPA/35 MCAT


Student C:

3.82 GPA
31 MCAT
1000 Hours Hospital volunteering
1000 Hours Research with a publication in a major journal
Strong Personal Statement/Letters of Recommendation
Strong Leadership Experience
Out of State

Student D:

3.7 GPA
34 MCAT
2000 Hours Hospital Volunteering
2000 Hours Research with 2 publications
Strong Personal Statement/Letters of Recommendation
Strong Leadership Experience
In-State

Which 2 do you choose?
!

I would easily choose Students C and D for the following reasons:
1. hospital volunteering is easy to lie about and/or play on your phone for the entire time -- publications and leadership experience, especially as validated by LORs are much harder to falsify IMO.
2. Given that hospital volunteering is BS, both these students demonstrate altruism or at least commitment to getting into med school by spending lots of time getting outside themselves and volunteering their time

Only thing I'd be a slight bit hesitant is the OOS thing, but not really too worried about it. Even if he/she's OOS they would probably come to a school where their stats are less than average, and even if not there are thousands of other candidates who would die for a seat at my school.

PS - it's funny, because I consider myself a candidate with the qualities described above and I have subpar "stats" due to being a non-trad who chose to do medicine 5 years out of undergrad, so I wonder if there is some self-selection bias going on...but I don't think so

 

[Ace Khalifa]

D is the strongest candidate overall taking every factor into account.

I'd pick D first. The choice between B or C next depends on what our hypothetical school values the most. Research or clinical volunteering -> C. GPA+MCAT -> B.

I wouldn't choose A or E because they lack leadership, and E also has the least impressive overall app out of all 5.

Also, where's the answer choice that reflects a candidate with no research experience but lots of community service? Aka people like me?

 

[Lambda Phage]

D>B>A>E>C only because C was rude to the secretary.

I would bump E up if not for their lack of ECs.

 

[LizzyM]

Nothing here about the interview. I could see all of these applicants being interviewed and then I'd use that in part to help make the decision.

 

[ridethecliche]

The one thing I will say is that in the med school sphere, getting a publication into a huge journal is a pretty big function of luck (outside of a few handfuls of people a year).

I've talked to current applicants that have been published in big journals and they really did a bit of research for it and happened to be in a good lab, while I know others with 2nd author publications in lesser journals where they essentially ran a retrospective study from the ground up with their PI doing a bit of supervision. Which of the two is more likely to be able to know the in's and outs of research and analysis? My guess is person 2.