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I was wondering about being elected to AOA: do med schools really just elect the top 10-20 students based on class rank? Or are there other factors that matter?
Most schools use grades from years 1 and 2 ( even if P/F they may keep an internal record of them) and 3rd year clerkships. The clinical rotations are the most important factor at most schools, which can be unfortunate considering the subjectivity of evaluations. Some schools also look at boards. If students cannot be selected due to similarities, other factors such as volunteering and research could come into play but that is more an exception than the rule.
Good luck.
It really varies so much. Junior AOA was announced at my school halfway through 3rd year and it seemed like it was only based on preclinical grades. 3rd year grades were essential for senior AOA
Our school's criteria:
Junior AOA: Must be in top 25% of class regarding Step 1 (50%) and preclinical grades (50%). A certain number of students is then selected, factoring in some other criteria, but mostly those two numbers.
Senior AOA: Must be in top 25% of class regarding core clerkships (50%), Step 1 (25%), and preclinical grades (25%). A certain number of students is then selected.
This may be a stupid quesiton, but what's the difference between the two other than the year? Is Junior AOA considered more prestigious when applying for residency?
I was elected to junior AOA and have had the chance to sit in on AOA election meetings, where candidates are discussed and chosen. At our school, you need to meet certain academic requirements, as have been stated above. At the meetings, however, all we are told is that these are the individuals meeting the requirements, and then each student is presented in a powerpoint slide, where their relevant extracurricular activities are discussed. Then the floor is open for fellow AOA students/faculty to add any personal input they have had in their interactions with the student. If the student is well-liked then they are likely to be voted into AOA. My point is to highlight the fact that while the student must meet the academic criteria, this only guarantees discussion at the meeting. But it is actually the extracurriculars/personal vignettes that will lead to election.
I was elected to junior AOA and have had the chance to sit in on AOA election meetings, where candidates are discussed and chosen. At our school, you need to meet certain academic requirements, as have been stated above. At the meetings, however, all we are told is that these are the individuals meeting the requirements, and then each student is presented in a powerpoint slide, where their relevant extracurricular activities are discussed. Then the floor is open for fellow AOA students/faculty to add any personal input they have had in their interactions with the student. If the student is well-liked then they are likely to be voted into AOA. My point is to highlight the fact that while the student must meet the academic criteria, this only guarantees discussion at the meeting. But it is actually the extracurriculars/personal vignettes that will lead to election.
I was elected to junior AOA and have had the chance to sit in on AOA election meetings, where candidates are discussed and chosen. At our school, you need to meet certain academic requirements, as have been stated above. At the meetings, however, all we are told is that these are the individuals meeting the requirements, and then each student is presented in a powerpoint slide, where their relevant extracurricular activities are discussed. Then the floor is open for fellow AOA students/faculty to add any personal input they have had in their interactions with the student. If the student is well-liked then they are likely to be voted into AOA. My point is to highlight the fact that while the student must meet the academic criteria, this only guarantees discussion at the meeting. But it is actually the extracurriculars/personal vignettes that will lead to election.
Several posters following my post on my school's selection process have raised interesting points. I definitely think better looking, more sociable students are favored and also think it helps to have a strong faculty advocate within the election body, thus favoring those with an 'inside' connection. However, despite this arbitrariness to the process, all the discussed candidates meet the minimum academic requirements. While I believe the most fair and objective way to elect candidates would be to strictly look at grades and literally go from the top of the list down, the mission of AOA is to elect student leaders, etc. and this is best captured not only by objective criteria such as grades but also interpersonal qualities that are subjective in nature.
Although I can understand the frustration that a subjective selection can cause, students need to realize that being a good physician is much more than being a good test taker. Don't get me wrong, grades and boards are definitely important, and they are used at most schools to select "selectable" candidates but including other qualities in the election process is not unreasonable.
Mortal_Lessons, thanks for the inside scoop. But given you were Junior AOA I was wondering if you also happened to be in the top 6 of your class. Thanks!I was elected to junior AOA and have had the chance to sit in on AOA election meetings, where candidates are discussed and chosen. At our school, you need to meet certain academic requirements, as have been stated above. At the meetings, however, all we are told is that these are the individuals meeting the requirements, and then each student is presented in a powerpoint slide, where their relevant extracurricular activities are discussed. Then the floor is open for fellow AOA students/faculty to add any personal input they have had in their interactions with the student. If the student is well-liked then they are likely to be voted into AOA. My point is to highlight the fact that while the student must meet the academic criteria, this only guarantees discussion at the meeting. But it is actually the extracurriculars/personal vignettes that will lead to election.
Totally agree with 2012mdc.
How can a group of people sitting around the table doing the selection actually even know which ECs every student is involved in? I was never asked to send in my CV. I agree some ECs like being a President of students or certain clubs with community service activities have high visibility but some don't. Being a student IRB member for example, is not an activity with huge visibility but requires a lot of dedication, time, and effort.
If a group of people with no understanding of eligible students' EC activities are making a decision, this is bound to be tilted in favor of students who have 'inside connections' and also indulge in some grovelling as suggested above. How is this an indication of honorable behavior? It seems too biased in my opinion. It should be based on grades + STEP1 score. Not on what their perception of who you are.
I honored all my 1st and 2nd year classes. I have been a student IRB member for 2 years, have tutored 1st year students, am a co-investigator on a research project, and won the only award my school gives to the top performer in Anatomy. Just learned today that despite all this, I have not been selected for AOA. I am convinced that the awarding process is indeed highly subjective.
I was elected to junior AOA and have had the chance to sit in on AOA election meetings, where candidates are discussed and chosen. At our school, you need to meet certain academic requirements, as have been stated above. At the meetings, however, all we are told is that these are the individuals meeting the requirements, and then each student is presented in a powerpoint slide, where their relevant extracurricular activities are discussed. Then the floor is open for fellow AOA students/faculty to add any personal input they have had in their interactions with the student. If the student is well-liked then they are likely to be voted into AOA. My point is to highlight the fact that while the student must meet the academic criteria, this only guarantees discussion at the meeting. But it is actually the extracurriculars/personal vignettes that will lead to election.
No offense, but your school's AOA selection process sounds like a complete joke. Thank you for being candid about the selection process.Several posters following my post on my school's selection process have raised interesting points. I definitely think better looking, more sociable students are favored and also think it helps to have a strong faculty advocate within the election body, thus favoring those with an 'inside' connection. However, despite this arbitrariness to the process, all the discussed candidates meet the minimum academic requirements. While I believe the most fair and objective way to elect candidates would be to strictly look at grades and literally go from the top of the list down, the mission of AOA is to elect student leaders, etc. and this is best captured not only by objective criteria such as grades but also interpersonal qualities that are subjective in nature.
No offense, but your school's AOA selection process sounds like a complete joke. Thank you for being candid about the selection process.
Retracting posts #23 and #25 above for now. Sorry folks. I had received incorrect information from a friend who mentioned to me that he has been notified of AOA. Totally destroyed my Friday, man. Just found out from official sources that for my school, the nominations will not occur until October. Will let you all know how it goes.
So for now, it appears the door is still open for me.
I like your attitude man. Great post. Everyone should keep this in mind.Hey man,
You sound like a hard working cool cat. Don't worry about things like this and don't let it get to you. I know it's easy for me to say that, but truth be told, your record will speak for itself. You sound like a hard working decent guy and you will get what you want if you just kick back and relax.
I remember a quote:
"Does your problem have a solution? - If yes, then why are you worrying about it? If no, then why are you worrying about it."
Good luck with it all and just keep doing what your doing. The only thing to keep in mind, is never let dem bastards ruin your day no matter what. No one should ever have that much control over you.
Yeah, kind of sounds like a popularity contest. The most popular students aren't always the best leaders, even if they were involved in literally everything. Feels like high school all over again...