Why can't student loans be dismissed through bankrupcy

[el_duderino]

Insurance would replace the car.

Call up State Farm and see if they'll give you loan insurance.

Of course, insurance wouldn't replace your car if you took a sledgehammer to it because you didn't like it anymore.....

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[PlaqueBuster]

Insurance would replace the car.

You buy a pizza with the money you borrowed from your rommate and as you walk back in the cold, you slip on ice and drop your dinner. Is it unfair that you paid for that pizza but did not get to eat it? Because of your mistake will you not pay back your rommate? some common sense would be helpful.

You don't have money to pay for the rent and your rommate covers you. You decide that you want to move out of the apartment a week into the month. Will you refuse to pay back your rommate after making a comittment?

 

[PlaqueBuster]

Call up State Farm and see if they'll give you loan insurance.

Of course, insurance wouldn't replace your car if you took a sledgehammer to it because you didn't like it anymore.....

They appear if you sing the jingle and will get rid of your debt.

 

[Just kiss me]

I'm sure many people on SDN never have such problems, but school isn't for everyone and sometimes your family pushes you to do something you don't want to by the time you realize it you are not good at it and have already incurred so much debt.

 

[PlaqueBuster]

I'm sure many people on SDN never have such problems, but school isn't for everyone and sometimes your family pushes you to do something you don't want to by the time you realize it you are not good at it and have already incurred so much debt.

Who's problem is that?

 

[Just kiss me]

You buy a pizza with the money you borrowed from your rommate and as you walk back in the cold, you slip on ice and drop your dinner. Is it unfair that you paid for that pizza but did not get to eat it? Because of your mistake will you not pay back your rommate? some common sense would be helpful.

You don't have money to pay for the rent and your rommate covers you. You decide that you want to move out of the apartment a week into the month. Will you refuse to pay back your rommate after making a comittment?

I guess I should pay back, but I was talking about extenuating circumstances, those out of your control, not just a simple change of mind. Wouldn't you have compassion for someone who owes you money but who lost their mom and had to spend so much for the funeral? i would.

 

[cidem2065]

I guess I should pay back, but I was talking about extenuating circumstances, those out of your control, not just a simple change of mind. Wouldn't you have compassion for someone who owes you money but who lost their mom and had to spend so much for the funeral? i would.

Why are you wondering about these ridiculous scenarios again? I'm lost on the point of this thread.

 

[PlaqueBuster]

I guess I should pay back, but I was talking about extenuating circumstances, those out of your control, not just a simple change of mind. Wouldn't you have compassion for someone who owes you money but who lost their mom and had to spend so much for the funeral? i would.

I think you dont understand what "fair" is. You see it only from 1 point of view. If you don't pay back there is another party inolved in all these scenarios that is suffering.

 

[el_duderino]

[deleted]

 

[el_duderino]

I guess I should pay back, but I was talking about extenuating circumstances, those out of your control, not just a simple change of mind. Wouldn't you have compassion for someone who owes you money but who lost their mom and had to spend so much for the funeral? i would.

I have compassion, but *I* don't want to pay your 5 or 6 figure loans.

I doubt if anyone else does either.

Who do YOU think should pay your loans? Someone needs to.

 

[Make Or Break]

I'm sure many people on SDN never have such problems, but school isn't for everyone and sometimes your family pushes you to do something you don't want to by the time you realize it you are not good at it and have already incurred so much debt.

I guess I should pay back, but I was talking about extenuating circumstances, those out of your control, not just a simple change of mind. Wouldn't you have compassion for someone who owes you money but who lost their mom and had to spend so much for the funeral? i would.

Alright now you are not making any sense. You were not even talking about extenuating circumstances. Your rationale for not wanting to pay back loans was if being a physician was just not for you.

 

[xffan624]

You buy a pizza with the money you borrowed from your rommate and as you walk back in the cold, you slip on ice and drop your dinner. Is it unfair that you paid for that pizza but did not get to eat it? Because of your mistake will you not pay back your rommate? some common sense would be helpful.

You don't have money to pay for the rent and your rommate covers you. You decide that you want to move out of the apartment a week into the month. Will you refuse to pay back your rommate after making a comittment?

My roommate tried to argue one time because she was on vacation for half the month she should have reduced rent and utilities (for the record I was gone for a good chunk of the month as well). As if you get a discount on rent for not using the place.

 

[Make Or Break]

My roommate tried to argue one time because she was on vacation for half the month she should have reduced rent and utilities (for the record I was gone for a good chunk of the month as well). As if you get a discount on rent for not using the place.

Oh gosh I can't STAND that argument!!

 

[Just kiss me]

Alright now you are not making any sense. You were not even talking about extenuating circumstances. Your rationale for not wanting to pay back loans was if being a physician was just not for you.

it's a similar scenario, if I keep failing and I'm unable to move forward that is an extenuating circumstance that should be considered for forgiveness. If I'm never going to be able to pay back because I don't have a good paying job shouldn't you be compassionate? it's a similar scenario.

 

[Make Or Break]

it's a similar scenario, if I keep failing and I'm unable to move forward that is an extenuating circumstance that should be considered for forgiveness. If I'm ever going to be able to pay back because I don't have a good paying job shouldn't you be compassionate? it's a similar scenario.

Alright I'm done. There is no convincing you... I guess society should fund all of your problems and issues because if you mess up, nothing is your fault.

 

[PlaqueBuster]

it's a similar scenario, if I keep failing and I'm unable to move forward that is an extenuating circumstance that should be considered for forgiveness. If I'm never going to be able to pay back because I don't have a good paying job shouldn't you be compassionate? it's a similar scenario.

I feel like this is trending into the troll category. OP I suggest you don't apply to medical school if you are serious in your claims

 

[Just kiss me]

I feel like this is trending into the troll category. OP I suggest you don't apply to medical school if you are serious in your claims

I have already applied, I'm just scared.

 

[cidem2065]

I have already applied, I'm just scared.

This is a new low in pathetic neuroticism. You're not even in school yet.

It's also a new low for society and its short-sighted sense of entitlement. You don't vote, right?

 

[Just kiss me]

I had a roommate that was in med school and she was studying at least 15 hours a day and she never had time for herself. I'm just really scared I won't survive that lifestyle.

 

[Doug Underhill]

Why? Because capitalism is dependent upon continually having an underclass to exploit, and chains of debt function well enough in a society that views chains of iron dimly.

 

[Make Or Break]

I have already applied, I'm just scared.

Well to sum it all up, this is how it is. Your loans will not be forgiven if something were to happen or if you decided being a physician wasn't for your. So the sooner you accept that, the happier you will be.

 

[el_duderino]

it's a similar scenario, if I keep failing and I'm unable to move forward that is an extenuating circumstance that should be considered for forgiveness. If I'm never going to be able to pay back because I don't have a good paying job shouldn't you be compassionate? it's a similar scenario.

You keep using the term "forgiveness." I'm not sure you understand quite what that means.

It means "someone else shelling out the money for me."

Who should shell out that money on your behalf?

 

[Just kiss me]

I have compassion, but *I* don't want to pay your 5 or 6 figure loans.

I doubt if anyone else does either.

Who do YOU think should pay your loans? Someone needs to.

but what about other debts that get forgiven?

 

[Doctor_Nope]

but what about other debts that get forgiven?

Because the banks have figured out ways to still make money forgiving those debts. They never really eat those costs but just spread it out over all their borrowers. Apparently the banks have figured out they can't do that with student loans and still make enough money.

At the end of the day it's business and there is little 'compassion' involved. Just what will continue to feed the bottom-line.

 

[Just kiss me]

Alright I guess if I get accepted I will think a thousand times before enrolling. I guess life is not always fair, but I like to prepare for the worst, I'm a non traditional student and I had many bad things happen to me throughout college that at some point I withdrew, not expecting bad things to happen again but definitely thinking ahead.

 

[Boolean]

Alright I guess if I get accepted I will think a thousand times before enrolling. I guess life is not always fair, but I like to prepare for the worst, I'm a non traditional student and I had many bad things happen to me throughout college that at some point I withdrew, not expecting bad things to happen again but definitely thinking ahead.

Thinking ahead is always a good plan. Medicine is a serious commitment with respect to time and money, make sure it's the commitment you think is best.

 

[Doctor_Nope]

Alright I guess if I get accepted I will think a thousand times before enrolling. I guess life is not always fair, but I like to prepare for the worst, I'm a non traditional student and I had many bad things happen to me throughout college that at some point I withdrew, not expecting bad things to happen again but definitely thinking ahead.

Prepare for the worst but also remember to hope for the best. And NEVER let fear dictate your decisions. Most of us (including me) have some trepidation about the path that lies before. LIFE in general has so many unknowns. But many of us have made the rational decision that medicine is our calling and so we forge on in spite of that fear.

Good luck.

 

[PreciousHamburgers]

I was referencing to a case where you didn't get to finish your education due to extenuating circumstances to qualify for a good paying job to reimburse the loans. There should be some sort of way for people in such circumstances to have the loans excused and discharged.

That's why it is very difficult, but not impossible to discharge student loans in bankruptcy.

http://www.studentloanborrowerassistance.org/bankruptcy/

It seems that living a lifestyle that would qualify you for discharging student loans in bankruptcy would be much worse than just paying for the loan.

 

[Just kiss me]

That's why it is very difficult, but not impossible to discharge student loans in bankruptcy.

http://www.studentloanborrowerassistance.org/bankruptcy/

It seems that living a lifestyle that would qualify you for discharging student loans in bankruptcy would be much worse than just paying for the loan.

"3. A number of courts have granted discharges in cases where the borrower did not benefit from the education or went to a fraudulent school."
Interesting to know thanks.

 

[IlDestriero]

What if you realize after 2 years of med school medicine is not for you you already have 2 years of student loans to pay off, I used to tell myself if that happens I will just file for bankrupcy but I just found out bankrupcy doesn't cover student loans

This is what is wrong with America.
Too bad you can't just borrow $100k and change your mind and walk away. At least when you do this to your mortgage, the bank gets your house.

 

[DrBowtie]

"3. A number of courts have granted discharges in cases where the borrower did not benefit from the education or went to a fraudulent school."
Interesting to know thanks.

Don't count on that clause for medical school debts.

 

[Mad Jack]

It would be too much of a risk for banks to lend money for Student Loans if there was the possibility of the borrower declaring bankruptcy. They would be too afraid of losing money, and rightfully so, since the borrowers have no collateral or even a job. The government would have to guarantee they would be reimbursed.

The federal government guarantees loans in the case of default. The taxpayers would lose out, not the lenders.

 

[Holmwood]

Don't sign a contract without knowing the full details.

And also, loan = / = scholarship. Loaning is a business. Such businesses have been known to take away business, homes, etc. Your college loan is small in comparison.

 

[IlDestriero]

I guess I should pay back, but I was talking about extenuating circumstances, those out of your control, not just a simple change of mind. Wouldn't you have compassion for someone who owes you money but who lost their mom and had to spend so much for the funeral? i would.

No.

 

[Snakes]

"3. A number of courts have granted discharges in cases where the borrower did not benefit from the education or went to a fraudulent school."
Interesting to know thanks.

I'm a bankruptcy lawyer and have seen ONE person get his undergraduate debt discharged through an adversary proceeding--he had had a devastating accident and was a quadriplegic. I have seen countless people lose their adversary proceedings to discharge debt. I have never personally seen a professional (doctor/lawyer/what have you) get their student loans discharged, and I have seen a lot of "good" reasons for discharge.

When you file an adversary proceeding for discharge, the student loan company ALWAYS appears and ALWAYS opposes your adversary proceeding. I have never seen a student loan company settle or agree to a discharge. Not once. Never.

If you're going to go to med school and take on that debt, you've got to do it knowing that you are going to be stuck with that debt until you pay it off or die.

The "fraudulent school" exception is for schools that either could not provide the student a degree and lured the student to enroll without any intention of conferring a degree, or closed before the student could obtain a degree. Fraudulent schools are usually for-profit, fly-by-night outfits offering vo-tec and online classes. These loans can often be cancelled without the borrower having to file for bankruptcy.

 

[MrLogan13]

but what about other debts that get forgiven?

Other borrowers pay for those debts in the form of higher interest rates and stiffer penalties. Not to mention the fact that federally guaranteed loans will be paid for by the tax payer.

 

[link2swim06]

This is a silly argument because...

As long as your are on IRB or Pay as You Earn your payments are not going to impact your life much and you will get the loans discharged in 20 years anyhow.

I don't know many mortgages where you can pay 15% of the balance and magically get the title for the property in 20 years....

 

[Snakes]

Other borrowers pay for those debts in the form of higher interest rates and stiffer penalties.

Banks like to say this, but at least when it comes to credit card debt, most clients I see have been paying near-usurious rates and interest on balances for years before they finally throw in the towel and decide to file. That pizza many of them bought 5 years ago with their Visa might have cost $10, but in real dollars and interest has probably cost them $60 over that 5 year time period. Banks don't lose money on defaulted credit cards. They are some of their biggest money makers. If they did, they wouldn't issue them anymore.

I've seen clients get a bankruptcy discharge and a month later get inundated with new unsecured credit card offers, often from the same banks whose previous credit card debts were just discharged. Why? Because people with fresh bankruptcy discharges are the best credit card clients a bank could ask for. They can charge them tons of interest and they know they can't file for bankruptcy again for 8 years, plus (for now) they're debt-free! At least where credit cards are concerned, I don't exactly have a ton of sympathy for the banks.

 

[Snakes]

By the way, in the case of the quadriplegic who got his undergraduate loans discharged, the student loan company not only opposed his discharge and took it to trial, they presented expert witnesses in career counseling who testified about ways they thought that he could be gainfully employed. It was crazy.

 

[Beargryllz]

If they could be dismissed through bankruptcy I would declare bankruptcy immediately upon graduation because I don't own **** but have one of the most lucrative skill sets in the world. By the time I finish residency, my credit would be almost restored. Spend another couple years and you're goddamn golden with no debt whatsoever.

 

[Just kiss me]

This is a new low in pathetic neuroticism. You're not even in school yet.

It's also a new low for society and its short-sighted sense of entitlement. You don't vote, right?

I'm not republican.

 

[Just kiss me]

No.

wow i'm shocked, i guess there are not many compassionate people out there.

 

[el_duderino]

wow i'm shocked, i guess there are not many compassionate people out there.

"Compassion" doesn't mean "willing to cover someone's 6-figure debt."

 

[Just kiss me]

"Compassion" doesn't mean "willing to cover someone's 6-figure debt."

If you are able to lend I should guess you should be able to live without it whether it's paid back or not, I mean considering the borrower's unexpected circumstances. Let's narrow it and let's say you lend $1000 to someone and somehow the person has difficulties paying back, it wouldn't kill you to just forget it and let it go.

 

[cidem2065]

Smh. Why don't you go lend someone money and see what you think about it?

 

[aalamruad]

I'm not republican.

Obviously...

 

[Make Or Break]

If you are able to lend I should guess you should be able to live without it whether it's paid back or not, I mean considering the borrower's unexpected circumstances. Let's narrow it and let's say you lend $1000 to someone and somehow the person has difficulties paying back, it wouldn't kill you to just forget it and let it go.

Still with the same story? Now you're just trolling. You already know what everyone's opinion is. You are not convincing anyone.

 

[Just kiss me]

Still with the same story? Now you're just trolling. You already know what everyone's opinion is. You are not convincing anyone.

I already know what your opinion is. @PreciousHamburgers posted a very helpful link above that said in some cases these loans can be discharged, you don't have to keep posting here since I already know your opinion.

 

[Make Or Break]

I already know what your opinion is. @PreciousHamburgers posted a very helpful link above that said in some cases these loans can be discharged, you don't have to keep posting here since I already know your opinion.

You're still trying to get people all worked up by saying "1000 dollars can be forgiven and forgotten right?"

 

[Just kiss me]

You're still trying to get people all worked up by saying "1000 dollars can be forgiven and forgotten right?"

Collections of more than $1000 are forgiven through bankrupcy. I was just giving an example you need to read carefully, I was trying to narrow the 6 figure debt with the dept of education to an everyday case. My point was, if a lender such as the department of education can lend any amount it can survive without it, it wouldn't lose much if the debtor couldn't afford to repay, otherwise we wouldn't have bankrupcy. To translate it in better terms I said if you can afford to lend $1000 to someone, that means you even have more than $1000 in your account, so if for some unforeseen circumstances the borrower is unable to repay it wouldn't hurt you much.