Why do a GPR or AEGD?

[SuperC]

I did a quick (not extensive) search on this subject and did not see anything that directly answers this question (mostly GPR vs AEGD).

Therefore my question still stands. Granted, I still have some time before I have to really consider this, but in the name of finals procrastination, I thought I would ask.

Every GP I speak with (in private practice) has had an almost unanimous response. "Don't do it, it is a waste of time!" Certainly, it depends on what the program focuses on, but people seem to think the effort is not worth the reward.

I met a guy the other day who did a GPR in NYC and he had a bunch of cool stories about doing triage on gunshot wounds, and knife lacerations, which is cool in the Grey's Anatomy sense of it all, but if he was applying for a associateship at with a cosmetic dentist. So, was that all for not. Chances of a guy with a gunshot to the face walking into a high end cosmetic practice is what, say 1 in 800 trillion?

I realize that your DMD/DDS is only a "license to learn" but couldn't you take CE courses and learn that way, or by practicing?

So, there it is, why are you guys planning/doing these residencies and what will you gain out if it that you would not gain out of going in to practice?

Thanks,
-C

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[toofshucker]

In my own personal opinion, AEGD and GPR's are a waste of time. I think that if you want to be a general dentist, go be one. I am sure that AEGD's and GPR's can/do give you experience doing a lot of things, but nothing you can't learn on your own/in an associateship.

I think that GPR's are a complete waste of time, due to the fact that unless you plan on working in a hospital as a dentist, most of what you do in a GPR is irrelevant.

AEGD's are a little less unnecessary, but unnecessary none the less. Now, I understand that it gives you confidence, and it can help you build your speed, but I honestly believe that one of the biggest myths (besides the myth that sealants don't work ) in dentistry is that a GPR/AEGD is needed in order to do dentistry. There is always the exception to the rule, but I honestly believe that most students are competent enough to come out of school and be able to hold their own in at least an associateship.

Why work for someone else and make peanuts, when you can do an associateship and make much more? But, this is just my opinion, and some of the reasons why I am not the least bit interested in doing post-grad work. That being said, if you feel differently, that is fine, it is just your opinion.

 

[coursedirector2005]

I did a quick (not extensive) search on this subject and did not see anything that directly answers this question (mostly GPR vs AEGD).

Therefore my question still stands. Granted, I still have some time before I have to really consider this, but in the name of finals procrastination, I thought I would ask.

Every GP I speak with (in private practice) has had an almost unanimous response. "Don't do it, it is a waste of time!" Certainly, it depends on what the program focuses on, but people seem to think the effort is not worth the reward.

I met a guy the other day who did a GPR in NYC and he had a bunch of cool stories about doing triage on gunshot wounds, and knife lacerations, which is cool in the Grey's Anatomy sense of it all, but if he was applying for a associateship at with a cosmetic dentist. So, was that all for not. Chances of a guy with a gunshot to the face walking into a high end cosmetic practice is what, say 1 in 800 trillion?

I realize that your DMD/DDS is only a "license to learn" but couldn't you take CE courses and learn that way, or by practicing?

So, there it is, why are you guys planning/doing these residencies and what will you gain out if it that you would not gain out of going in to practice?

Thanks,
-C

There is a trend now in some states to require a year of postdoctoral training for licensure. In New York State, you no longer have the option to take the boards for first licensure but must do an extra year of training and an AEGD or GPR fills this requirement. As a program director, I hope that other states continue this trend.

 

[toofshucker]

There is a trend now in some states to require a year of postdoctoral training for licensure. In New York State, you no longer have the option to take the boards for first licensure but must do an extra year of training and an AEGD or GPR fills this requirement. As a program director, I hope that other states continue this trend.

This is my point. Please, don't take offense to this, remember it is only my opinion, and I am a nobody (or at least not a doctor....yet )

For some reason, we are being taught that we suck at dentistry and that we won't know how to do anything when we graduate. We think that as dentists, if we can't do a $50,000 full mouth restoration, then we are not qualified to do anything. That is wrong. There is nothing wrong with coming out of dental school, doing restorative, crown and bridge, and perio. Taking a ton of CE and every 2-3 years adding another element to your treatment plan.

For example, you can get out of school, do nothing but prophies, scale and root planing, fillings, and crowns (I know a very respectable doctor that does this and takes home over $300,000 a year). Refer everything else. Take a ton of endo CE. Year three, start to keep your endo cases that you feel comfortable with. Then add implants, then ortho, then whatever else you fancy. I feel, that you will be as good as any doctor out there doing this, and much farther along financially. But my opinion.

I feel that the "course directors" are pushing the whole "you suck as a doctor if you don't do a residency" for the same reasons Pharmacists, PT's, etc are doctors. You get more tuition, at a higher rate. We all need to justify our jobs, and this is how they do it. "Coming out of school, you know squat and you need to learn how to manage a gun wound to the head to be a competent dentist (GPR)." I completely disagree. I will be disappointed if I ever have to manage a gun wound to the head. That is not what I want to do as a dentist.

Again, my opinion, please don't take it personal.

 

[SuperC]

There is a trend now in some states to require a year of postdoctoral training for licensure. In New York State, you no longer have the option to take the boards for first licensure but must do an extra year of training and an AEGD or GPR fills this requirement. As a program director, I hope that other states continue this trend.

Not to gang up on you Ivy, but that does not answer the question, at all. I would think as a program director, you of all people, would be able to provide some good information as to what you teach your residents, and how this benefits them. Moreover, if you want states to require a residency, how does that impact patients? What studies show that a dentist with a GPR or AEGD is less likely to injure, hurt, maim patients?

I know that I sound like I am anti residency guy, but I am not. I am just looking for someone to give me some valid points as to why this is important.

-C

 

[dentista2012]

great post, I am very interested in responses

 

[Soflex]

Personally, I would really like to get more experience doing endo, implants and dentures before I go into private practice. That is why a VA-affiliated type of GPR sounds appealing to me. It seems to me that you might learn it better this way than just taking a lot of CE.

That is just my opinion...I know I am in the minority here.

 

[gryffindor]

Doing a GPR or AEGD is only worth your time if you will be busy seeing cases that will help you be faster and gain additional skills useful in private practice. This would include things like crown & bridge, implant cases, root canals, perio surgeries. If you spend all year at the GPR doing nothing but dentures and extractions and having to be on call in the ER admitting gun shot wounds, it is cool at first but then starts feeling like a waste of time after a few months. Although my GPR had many positives, preparing me for the types of fixed prostho cases more common in private practice was not one of them. I did more crowns in dental school than I did in my GPR because the patient population at the GPR could not afford them. Even if they could afford a crown, there was too much red tape to fight to actually be able to get the crown done. I also did more endo in my part-time associateship than in my GPR for the same reason. This is why VA GPRs can be good to look into since many of their procedures are covered for their patients.

I think the decision to pursue a GPR or AEGD is somewhat of a reflection of where you went to dental school. At my school (and I think at many Northeast schools) there was a larger push to pursue a GPR or AEGD after graduation. At other schools in other parts of the country, only a minority of students pursue such programs because there is a larger push to go straight to practice. Some of the residents in my GPR who came from that giant dental school in NY really needed that year in the residency because their skills were quite lacking when they started. They told us about classmates they knew who had graduated dental school without ever doing a denture because of loopholes in their clinic system. You would hope those students do go to a GPR. By the end they had been brought up to speed though.

There are GPRs and AEGDs that can be worth your time and help you learn a lot. However, the student has to really research this carefully to find out the patient population that comes to the clinic (can they afford treatment or not), how many patients are seen per day, what kind of dentistry is being done (do the majority of teeth get extracted or saved with root canal/post & core/crown), how much attending coverage and lectures there are, how intense is the on call (is it a trauma 1 center where you have to be in house every 2 nights admitting gun shot wounds, or is it a program where you take call from home and rarely go in) etc.

 

[splint]

I agree with Gryffindor it really depends on the GPR you get into. I'm currently at a VA program and I'm doing a lot of fixed and removable cases. Pretty much all of my cases are complex (a lot of vets neglecting their mouths). While we have to have our complex case plans approved by a staff dentist or director, we pretty much have free reign to do whatever the patients needs. We are getting experience in rehabbing mouths, lots of crowns and bridges, restoring implants, observing placement (possibly placing one or two...i'm not holding my breath on this), and I even have a couple limited ortho patients (mostly setting up cases for fixed). I went to a west coast dental school that has a very busy clinic and I know I got better than average exposure to treating pts, but I'm getting valuable experience treating complex cases every day. We have limited call (haven't had to go in at night once) but I'm at a VA that doesn't take trauma, getting experience extracting teeth, getting exposure to molar endo, and treating some sick patients (I don't think I'll be shocked by any sick patients in private practice after this residency).
Overall I would recommend a GPD to anyone wanting to go out on their own soon after graduation. Talking to my classmates who are associating for their first year most of them are not doing complex treatment and many aren't even doing very much fixed (crowns are taken by the principal dentist).
Down side is less pay, still being treated like a resident, and doing rotations that do not pertain to dentistry (two weeks with anesthesia is a snooze!). If you are motivated to learn and want the extra experience a GPR can give you make sure you research the individual programs thoroughly since they are all not created equal.

 

[straightwire]

I did a quick (not extensive) search on this subject and did not see anything that directly answers this question (mostly GPR vs AEGD).

Therefore my question still stands. Granted, I still have some time before I have to really consider this, but in the name of finals procrastination, I thought I would ask.

Every GP I speak with (in private practice) has had an almost unanimous response. "Don't do it, it is a waste of time!" Certainly, it depends on what the program focuses on, but people seem to think the effort is not worth the reward.

I met a guy the other day who did a GPR in NYC and he had a bunch of cool stories about doing triage on gunshot wounds, and knife lacerations, which is cool in the Grey's Anatomy sense of it all, but if he was applying for a associateship at with a cosmetic dentist. So, was that all for not. Chances of a guy with a gunshot to the face walking into a high end cosmetic practice is what, say 1 in 800 trillion?

I realize that your DMD/DDS is only a "license to learn" but couldn't you take CE courses and learn that way, or by practicing?

So, there it is, why are you guys planning/doing these residencies and what will you gain out if it that you would not gain out of going in to practice?

Thanks,
-C

This is a good question. I did a year GPR after I finished dental school. I felt that GPR or AEGD program can serve as a bridge between dental school and private practice. I would assume most dental students probably only see about 4-6 patients a day while in private practice a dentist can easily need to see 16-20 patients a day and I know some of my friends see even more than that. So how do you jump from 4-6 patients a day to 16-20 patients a day over night? One of my clinical instructors in dental school told me that "one should get good before you get fast". I think a GPR or AEGD program can just help a new dentist to acheive this goal. Yes, you learned how to do a nice crown prep in school but it probably takes you 2 hours. Can you do the same crown prep in 20 minutes or in even less time while in private practice? Especially when you are already running 20 to 30 minutes behind and the patients in the waiting room is getting mad at you. I think going to GPR or AEGD program can help one to make this transition.

Where you go to dental school seems to make a difference too. I went to dental school in Northeast and I do think most dental students in this area do end up doing GPR or AEGD after graduation. On the other hand, almost none of my friends went to dental school in CA gone to GPR or AEGD program. For some reason, they all been told by their instructors in schools that they are ready for private practice and doing GPR or AEGD is a waste of time. I certainly don't believe that CA schools has better training than schools in the Northeast. But I do think it is pretty easy for one to get over-confident to think that since he or she got very good training from dental school and can do anything after graduation and this can be a very bad thing............

 

[straightwire]

I did a quick (not extensive) search on this subject and did not see anything that directly answers this question (mostly GPR vs AEGD).

Therefore my question still stands. Granted, I still have some time before I have to really consider this, but in the name of finals procrastination, I thought I would ask.

Every GP I speak with (in private practice) has had an almost unanimous response. "Don't do it, it is a waste of time!" Certainly, it depends on what the program focuses on, but people seem to think the effort is not worth the reward.

I met a guy the other day who did a GPR in NYC and he had a bunch of cool stories about doing triage on gunshot wounds, and knife lacerations, which is cool in the Grey's Anatomy sense of it all, but if he was applying for a associateship at with a cosmetic dentist. So, was that all for not. Chances of a guy with a gunshot to the face walking into a high end cosmetic practice is what, say 1 in 800 trillion?

I realize that your DMD/DDS is only a "license to learn" but couldn't you take CE courses and learn that way, or by practicing?

So, there it is, why are you guys planning/doing these residencies and what will you gain out if it that you would not gain out of going in to practice?

Thanks,
-C

This is a good question. I did a year GPR after I finished dental school. I felt that GPR or AEGD program can serve as a bridge between dental school and private practice. I would assume most dental students probably only see about 4-6 patients a day while in private practice a dentist can easily need to see 16-20 patients a day and I know some of my friends see even more than that. So how do you jump from 4-6 patients a day to 16-20 patients a day over night? One of my clinical instructors in dental school told me that "one should get good before you get fast". I think a GPR or AEGD program can just help a new dentist to acheive this goal. Yes, you learned how to do a nice crown prep in school but it probably takes you 2 hours. Can you do the same crown prep in 20 minutes or in even less time while in private practice? Especially when you are already running 20 to 30 minutes behind and the patients in the waiting room is getting mad at you. I think going to GPR or AEGD program can help one to make this transition.

Where you go to dental school seems to make a difference too. I went to dental school in Northeast and I do think most dental students in this area do end up doing GPR or AEGD after graduation. On the other hand, almost none of my friends went to dental school in CA gone to GPR or AEGD program. For some reason, they all been told by their instructors in schools that they are ready for private practice and doing GPR or AEGD is a waste of time. I certainly don't believe that CA schools has better training than schools in the Northeast. But I do think it is pretty easy for one to get over-confident to think that since he or she got very good training from dental school and can do anything after graduation and this can be a very bad thing............

 

[NileBDS]

I did a quick (not extensive) search on this subject and did not see anything that directly answers this question (mostly GPR vs AEGD).

Therefore my question still stands. Granted, I still have some time before I have to really consider this, but in the name of finals procrastination, I thought I would ask.

Every GP I speak with (in private practice) has had an almost unanimous response. "Don't do it, it is a waste of time!" Certainly, it depends on what the program focuses on, but people seem to think the effort is not worth the reward.

I met a guy the other day who did a GPR in NYC and he had a bunch of cool stories about doing triage on gunshot wounds, and knife lacerations, which is cool in the Grey's Anatomy sense of it all, but if he was applying for a associateship at with a cosmetic dentist. So, was that all for not. Chances of a guy with a gunshot to the face walking into a high end cosmetic practice is what, say 1 in 800 trillion?

I realize that your DMD/DDS is only a "license to learn" but couldn't you take CE courses and learn that way, or by practicing?

So, there it is, why are you guys planning/doing these residencies and what will you gain out if it that you would not gain out of going in to practice?

Thanks,
-C

So this has been my experience so far (bear with me here):

GP's who have NOT done AEGD/GPR's, are always the first to say it is a big waste of time when asked. Practitioners who HAVE done one or the other, usually say it is the best thing they have ever done for their career. I'm not talking about all you guys reading this and saying "huh, MY AEGD/GPR SUCKS!", but the ones who were smart/cautious/realistic in picking the right programs to suit their needs.
Which brings me to my second point; why already-worn-out dental students would even consider working their butts off for one or two more years, for less than half the pay of a mediocre associate. Based on my experience, here are some commonly cited reasons (in no particular order):

Speed & patient management (2-4 patients in school, 10-20 in residency)
Comprehensive treatment planning
Medically compromised/complex patient care
Operating room/IV sedation experience
Not enough Endo, OS, Implant experience in school
Specialty program application
Lack of confidence
Living in a big city for a year or two (checking out new places)

The key is in finding a good residency program, which matches YOUR EXPECTATIONS/NEEDS ! If do an AEGD/GPR with hopes of matching endo/ortho next year, and most of what you actually end up doing in that residency is extractions, implants and fixed, how miserable would you be. Plenty. Before applying/interviewing anywhere, YOU NEED TO TALK TO SOME CURRENT/IMMEDIATE PAST RESIDENTS. I really can not emphasize this point enough. This is the only way of getting a good idea of what the program actually has to offer, and whether or not that is what you want to be doing for the next year or so.

All residencies are not created equal. Some AEGD/GPR (like ANY other residency/dental school) are horrible, where you actually risk feeling like you've never left dental school ... others are indispensable.
My idea of an indispensable/ideal PGY-1 is: one that provides YOU the learning environment which allows you to nourish your clinical and critical judgment skills in advanced procedures; for example: a program with Endo/OS/Perio/Prosth faculty on site, where you can feel comfortable pushing your skills to the limit and still find a specialist to bail you out/teach you how to do it better next time when needed. Someone to teach you how to manage patients in the OR, IV sedation, medically compromised patients with a laundry list of Rx medications (with our changing demographics, you will need to see more and more of these patients every day).

Everyone talking about doing associateships being better than a residency, well it may be true ... only if you find a great associateship, and compare that to a crappy residency.
Associateships where the owner is willing to open his/her doors to you, take you in for all your inexperience, teach you, give you good cases (endo, fixed, ... ) and treat you well (autonomy in treatment planning, not delegating work) are waaaaay far and in between. Most quality associateships/high end practices require 3-5 years of experience OR some sort of PGY-1 training.

In my opinion, a good residency is just a smart decision for your career. Look at it as a one year investment in a 30 year career.

 

[I'mFillingFine]

There is a trend now in some states to require a year of postdoctoral training for licensure. In New York State, you no longer have the option to take the boards for first licensure but must do an extra year of training and an AEGD or GPR fills this requirement. As a program director, I hope that other states continue this trend.

May I ask which program you direct? I see that you're in Mass. (Feel free to PM if you prefer.)

 

[toofshucker]

NileDDS - I can read most of your points and see the logic in them and can only say that my opinion differs...you aren't right/wrong, neither am I, we are just different.

The only thing that I don't get is your last sentence about a 1 year investment in a 30 year career. I highly, highly, highly doubt that 30 years into a dentist's career that the best ones all did residencies and the crappy ones did not. Your sentence is my point exactly. I honestly don't believe 15 years into practice that having done/not done a residency makes any bit of a difference. That is why I think the residency is not needed/waste of time. Whether you do or do not do a residency makes little to no difference in your career.

What makes a difference is what you do with CE during your career. Now, I have no problem with anybody doing a GPR/AEGD, but I just don't think they are nearly as important as people make them out to be.

 

[armorshell]

NileDDS - I can read most of your points and see the logic in them and can only say that my opinion differs...you aren't right/wrong, neither am I, we are just different.

The only thing that I don't get is your last sentence about a 1 year investment in a 30 year career. I highly, highly, highly doubt that 30 years into a dentist's career that the best ones all did residencies and the crappy ones did not. Your sentence is my point exactly. I honestly don't believe 15 years into practice that having done/not done a residency makes any bit of a difference. That is why I think the residency is not needed/waste of time. Whether you do or do not do a residency makes little to no difference in your career.

What makes a difference is what you do with CE during your career. Now, I have no problem with anybody doing a GPR/AEGD, but I just don't think they are nearly as important as people make them out to be.

Seems to me like there's probably not really a right answer to this question without considering relativity.

While a GPR/AEGD may be the best situation for someone, it may be absolutely the worst for another.

 

[Cold Front]

For some reason, we are being taught that we suck at dentistry and that we won't know how to do anything when we graduate. We think that as dentists, if we can't do a $50,000 full mouth restoration, then we are not qualified to do anything. That is wrong. There is nothing wrong with coming out of dental school, doing restorative, crown and bridge, and perio. Taking a ton of CE and every 2-3 years adding another element to your treatment plan.

I asked the same question the OP posed in this topic to couple of my clinical professors. Both HIGHLY recommended doing a residency before entering private practice, one even said that only 5% of all graduates are ready for the real world, the rest are just those who catch-up after few years in practice.

They also concurred and emphasized a good AEGD is better than a good GPR, which makes me wonder why my school doesn't have a GPR but an AEGD.

 

[toofshucker]

Seems to me like there's probably not really a right answer to this question without considering relativity.

While a GPR/AEGD may be the best situation for someone, it may be absolutely the worst for another.

I can completely agree with that.

 

[toofshucker]

I asked the same question the OP posed in this topic to couple of my clinical professors. Both HIGHLY recommended doing a residency before entering private practice, one even said that only 5% of all graduates are ready for the real world, the rest are just those who catch-up after few years in practice.

They also concurred and emphasized a good AEGD is better than a good GPR, which makes me wonder why my school doesn't have a GPR but an AEGD.

5%? If that is true, then your school sucks. Sorry. Most of your graduates should be ready to practice when they graduate. AGAIN, you don't have to be able to do full mouth reconstructions to be a good dentist. That why god made specialists. There is no excuse to graduate and not be able to do restorative, some simple crown and bridge, handle most perio cases, and do single root endo. You can make a good living doing just those things. If you can't do those, then you need to take that up with your school.

I do agree that an AEGD is much more pertinent to general dentistry than a GPR. I do not think there is any reason to do a GPR unless you want to work in an hospital.

 

[Cold Front]

5%? If that is true, then your school sucks.

I hope not, I meant 5% of all dental graduates in the country.

 

[rarm1]

There is a trend now in some states to require a year of postdoctoral training for licensure. In New York State, you no longer have the option to take the boards for first licensure but must do an extra year of training and an AEGD or GPR fills this requirement. As a program director, I hope that other states continue this trend.

Delaware has required a residency since 1940(eff 1944)



Here are some fast opinions…

Why a Graduate program? A residency? A GPR? An AEGD?

Opportunities in Post Graduate General Dentistry (GPR/AEGD)

This year may not be needed by all… but the independent Institute of Medicine in a review on the future of dentistry said there should be and spelled out many reasons… The Amer. Assoc. of Dental Educators and the Amer Dental Assoc agreed.

Why? Just to modern after medicine? No… but to fill many gaps.

It is a year to:
Learn more while being paid
Earn 250 credits to AGD
Gain Experience, Confidence, Maturity, Speed
Gain additional Patient contact, especially those you don’t see in dental school
Making mistakes on some one else
Allow you to get offered higher pay when you start practice
Gives you a year to Decide want you want to do, specialty? Group? Solo?
It Takes the pressure off any board exam… many states still require exams if you take a residency.
To serve the community, help with access to care… while learning.

Each program different…
From all dentistry in some AEGDs to all hospital in some GPRs
All are some where in between

Things to look for:
Accreditation
Speak to former residents, current residents
Pay
Will they allow you to meet requirements of various states?
Do they look poorly to those wanting a specialty?
Do they help you reach your potential?
How many they accept?
On- Call Coverage
Do they blend applicants?


Skills you may not have learned in dental school:
Implants
Nitrous
Emergency dental experience including dental alveolar trauma/avulsed teeth
Emergency management of patients… medical problems
Treatment of the Disabled, mental challenged, medically compromised
Do advance and Difficult treatments
Community/state/national/international service




How to apply varies by program to:
There is a PASS program or some allow direct applications
Some use the MATCH – some are Non MATCH programs – and After the MATCH many get in.

NOW
What Programs look for - YOU
These open the door: Grades, Class standings, National Boards, Recommendations
THESE GET YOU IN: WHO YOU ARE, Extra activities, and the interview




Now ask yourself honestly – have you ever seen an acute tooth fracture, a cellulitis
Have you splinted an avulsed tooth? Diagnosis a fracture? Know when to refer? Treated difficult facial pain cases? How many implants have your restored?
Always have an instructor sign off every step? Ever given a little more independence but have help if you need it…… AND GET PAID for learning….

These are some of the reasons…. The IOM book gave many more…. \\

Delaware reviewed the problems in 1936 and voted to require it in 1940… and we have had no problems… less malpractice and more experience.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is about our program – it is not the best, and we change it every year to try to improve the education and care.

Our program has a split personality - Every Wednesday afternoon is implants and now several Mondays a month. You work with the implant team from treatment planning to final restoration.... just like practice, To avoid evening calls in private practice the GPs often let OS/perio do the surgery and they worry about the esthetics and the profit from the prosthetics.

On Fridays AM we have a pediatric dentist in, Thursday afternoons - perio, Tuesday AM - endo. Like most programs work is limited by cost, but hospital allows us to do pros at lab fees - generally less then dental schools, Especially the implant cases.

We see all patients that are pre cardiac surgery, pre irradiation, pre bisphosphate, pre transplant, etc... We are on multi dispensary teams as equals. You learn to work with, consult with MDs… for your patients best care.

We also see out patient consults - facial pain, oral lesions, etc - typical Oral Medicine type patients.

Residents spend 2 rotations (5 weeks total) on consults with me. For those 10 half days a week - 2-3 are to see their comprehensive patients. 1 - implants; the rest with me - outpt consults/special cases/ helping with clinic emergencies and inpatients and OR cases.

There are 2 rotations (5 weeks total) in OS - 1 half day seeing their comprehensive patients; 1- in implants; 8 - OS

There are also medical rotations to teach you how to handle medical/airway problems in rotations in Emergency Medicine, Anesthesia, and Family Medicine… you are better prepared to avoid problems in your patients.

Our overall goal is to all each to seek their max. potential as a SUPER Generalist, or if they desire - a specialist. Best way to find out is to speak to current and former residents. (Again each program appeals to different people differently)

Our program changes each year - we try to always update -change - More access to care/public health/ community activities - like special Olympics, migrant workers; International dentistry with residents/ attendings going to Viet Nam, Bolivia with Operation Smile.

More esthetics with veneers/implants/bleaching; rotary endo; endo microscope...etc

But also being a team player - hospital started a geriatric program, they included us...

One this about us all WE LOVE DENTISTRY - and try to show that love.

If you are in this area stop by... or give us a call.... we are not in the match so we can get a blended program.
One warning few residents leave the state - the starting salary for new dentists, the tax rate (no sales tax), the schooling, etc Delaware is a well kept secret (and the boards are easy - only rumor has them as hard).

If I can be of any help let me know - call at the hospital - you have those #s, email, or call my cell - 302-530-6788.

The only to see if any program is for you… check it out.

 

[SuperC]

Wow, thank you to everyone who has posted. There is some really good information here on both sides of the fence. It looks like I have some thinking to do.

 

[NileBDS]

NileDDS - I can read most of your points and see the logic in them and can only say that my opinion differs...you aren't right/wrong, neither am I, we are just different.

The only thing that I don't get is your last sentence about a 1 year investment in a 30 year career. I highly, highly, highly doubt that 30 years into a dentist's career that the best ones all did residencies and the crappy ones did not. Your sentence is my point exactly. I honestly don't believe 15 years into practice that having done/not done a residency makes any bit of a difference. That is why I think the residency is not needed/waste of time. Whether you do or do not do a residency makes little to no difference in your career.

What makes a difference is what you do with CE during your career. Now, I have no problem with anybody doing a GPR/AEGD, but I just don't think they are nearly as important as people make them out to be.

This is a great discussion. I'm hoping the OP has a much better idea about AEGD/GPR's, and whether or not this may be something for him to consider.

I think you misunderstood my last sentence toof (or may be I was a bit vague). I did not mean to say that only those who have completed a PGY-1 would make good dentists 30 years later, and those whom have not, would be middle of the road. What I was alluding to is that at the end of your career, it will not make much of a difference (as far as time lost/income is concerned) when you look back at either:

1 year AEGD/GPR + 29 years practice
OR
0 year AEGD/GPR + 30 years practice

However, those who have completed AEGD/GPR programs are more likely to:

1. Be hired
2. Have a solid foundation
3. More confident doing advanced cases and emergency care earlier into their career
4. More efficient/productive from day 1
5. .................

I say this being a foreign trained dentist with a good deal of experience, having already been through a great AEGD back in Egypt. I know the value of a GOOD residency.
Dentistry here in the US is practiced quite differently than where I completed my previous training, which is why I recognize the benefit of doing another PGY-1 (among many other reasons).

 

[NileBDS]

... But I do think it is pretty easy for one to get over-confident to think that since he or she got very good training from dental school and can do anything after graduation and this can be a very bad thing............

Yes.

 

[NileBDS]

It would also be pretty interesting to post this question on Dentaltown.com, and see what sort of responses practicing dentists 5-10 years into their careers have about this issue. Whether from their own experience, or just from new-grad associates coming in and out of their practices.

 

[NileBDS]

It would also be pretty interesting to post this question on Dentaltown.com, and see what sort of responses practicing dentists 5-10 years into their careers have about this issue. Whether from their own experience, or just from new-grad associates coming in and out of their practices.

Nevermind;


http://www.docere.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=109&t=41246&r=0#Post0

http://www.docere.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=266&t=18768&r=0#Post0

http://www.docere.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=150&t=51861&r=0#Post0

http://www.docere.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=109&t=33097&r=0#Post0

You may need an account to view these links, so if you don't already have one, now would be a good time to register. I highly recommend spending more time on Dentaltown, and less on SDN as you near graduation.
Welcome to real life Dentistry.

 

[toofshucker]

Nile - You make good points, and like you (I think) and others have stated, it is totally a personal choice. For me, I don't think it is worth it. Other's swear by it.

... But I do think it is pretty easy for one to get over-confident to think that since he or she got very good training from dental school and can do anything after graduation and this can be a very bad thing............

The only thing I would say to this is that you can apply the same logic to someone out of an AEGD or GPR. It doesn't matter if you are a GP right out of school, 30 years in practice or a specialist. You need to know your limits, and when to refer no matter where you are in your career. Don't think that just because you graduated you can't do what you can do, and don't think you can do what you can't. Be smart.

 

[rarm1]

Nile - You make good points, and like you (I think) and others have stated, it is totally a personal choice. For me, I don't think it is worth it. Other's swear by it.



The only thing I would say to this is that you can apply the same logic to someone out of an AEGD or GPR. It doesn't matter if you are a GP right out of school, 30 years in practice or a specialist. You need to know your limits, and when to refer no matter where you are in your career. Don't think that just because you graduated you can't do what you can do, and don't think you can do what you can't. Be smart.

That is something great to remember... know what you know, when to ask questions, and when to refer.

At times I wish I could refer... but as an "expert", I am often the last stopping place... 30+ of speciality practice... oh well....<g>

I was not joking... any one with questions can always email me... or call me at the hospital #, or my cell.... yes I am crazy<g>

 

[I'mFillingFine]

one even said that only 5% of all graduates are ready for the real world, the rest are just those who catch-up after few years in practice.

I'm not taking an opinion on the actual debate in this thread, but I just wanted to comment on this thought. I don't really see how a few years in practice is "catching-up." I mean, you're a dentist, ideally doing a relatively wide range of procedures. Hopefully if you're an associate you're not just limited to perio and fillings, but if you're doing some pros, endo, etc. along with it, I don't really see what you have to "catch up" to.

You're never "done" learning and improving, though I doubt that ANY new graduate has the confidence of a 30-year veteran. But why is improving more over your first few years a sign of poor preparation beforehand?

 

[vize]

its not. basically it boils down to this: everyone who has done a gpr/aegd recommends it, and everyone who hasn't does not recommend it. from who I've talked to, if you have a family member who you'll associate with then screw a gpr/aegd, if not then its up to you to find a great mentor who will not care if you're absolute garbage. in regards to myself, im not sure what imma do. I, of course, always feel confident in my abilities, and being I have my dads practice to take over I thnk ill skip a gpr/aegd.

 

[Taxi Driver]

Some dental students have parents or siblings who are already dentists. Others may already have an idea where they are going. Many young dental students will be 100% on their own like those little sea turtles that hatch and must make it to the ocean.

A GPR or AEGD would be a chance for them to "mature" so to speak. A chance to explore a new city to see if it is where they want to practice. Also it is a good way to become familiar with the local dental community or university.

Many dentist who open their own practice can find themselves feeling isolated. Dentists usually are not associated with a hospital where you see colleagues everyday.

 

[beanary23]

I did a quick (not extensive) search on this subject and did not see anything that directly answers this question (mostly GPR vs AEGD).

Therefore my question still stands. Granted, I still have some time before I have to really consider this, but in the name of finals procrastination, I thought I would ask.

Every GP I speak with (in private practice) has had an almost unanimous response. "Don't do it, it is a waste of time!" Certainly, it depends on what the program focuses on, but people seem to think the effort is not worth the reward.

I met a guy the other day who did a GPR in NYC and he had a bunch of cool stories about doing triage on gunshot wounds, and knife lacerations, which is cool in the Grey's Anatomy sense of it all, but if he was applying for a associateship at with a cosmetic dentist. So, was that all for not. Chances of a guy with a gunshot to the face walking into a high end cosmetic practice is what, say 1 in 800 trillion?

I realize that your DMD/DDS is only a "license to learn" but couldn't you take CE courses and learn that way, or by practicing?

So, there it is, why are you guys planning/doing these residencies and what will you gain out if it that you would not gain out of going in to practice?

Thanks,
-C

For those students not quite ready to face the hard cold truth of being an associate in the tri-state area, a GPR affords you the opportunity to learn and practice dentistry in a mentorship transitional learning environment. Seriously, who has 2-3 hrs to do a bridge in an insurance based practice and who says that the senior owner that has been doing it for years will let you do it. A GPR lets you sample dentistry as if it was a buffet.

 

[gatorfan99]

You guys are putting a ton of faith on the wonders of doing "good" CE... I did an 1yr AEGD and I absolutely loved it - not just for clinical experience but also because I was exposed (for the first time) to active reading of (dental) scientific articles and how to distinguish between crap vs good research, how to get an idea when you have a decent product vs someone is trying to sell you something, how to distinguish between a good speaker vs someone who's talking way over their head and just spilling out BS..

Here's the thing, looking back, dental school only has enough time to barely make you competent and to expose you to some additional things (btw - if you think just 4yrs of d school are enough for more advanced things like implants, sedation, etc you are seriously mistaken). That extra 1 or 2 years gives you a chance to be PROPERLY trained without (unlike many "good CE" courses) some profit/buy my product motivation behind it. Also, the 1 or 2 yr AEGD/GPR may show you that you truly like perio or endo or ortho etc and it may motivate you into becoming a specialist!

TL,DR: Find a good program and go for it, you don't know what you don't know

 

[setdoc7]

I have been a dentist for over 30 years. I did a GPR back in 1983. It was a good experience, and then I went on for some other training. I have been in private practice since 1986. The things I learned at the GPR, the good habits, the extensive intake, management of emergencies both medical and dental, have lasted a lifetime. I take lots of CE. Some courses are better than others. The really good ones are extremely expensive, and are often in distant locations, so although I am a proponent of lifelong learning, it is not always as easy as it seems. Oh, and I am a GPR program director for the last 12 years. You must have completed a GPR to become a director. I did not know back in 1983 where dentistry would take me. Being a director is both challenging and interesting, and keeps me in touch with new grads and current trends in dental education, both undergrad and post grad. Not completing a GPR, even back in 1983 when it was certainly not required, would have shut the door an what has been an incredibly interesting job.

 

[cmcner]

Every dentist is cocky and think their decision was the right one. Almost anyone who did a residency will say you should do one. Anyone who didn't will say they're garbage. No one in the world took both paths so it's an impossible thing to get an unbiased opinion on.

 

[Justdontblink]

I have a follow up question about GPR/AEGD

If you work in a state for a certain amount of years that does not require a GPR/AEGD, but then move to a state like NY where one is required to have taken a GPR/AEGD can that requirement be circumvented due to your years working in the field?

 

[setdoc7]

One last comment on this, as application season is about to go into full swing, and I am sure many D4's are mulling over this very question. My program admits graduates from many different dental schools from all over the country, not just the northeast. I have had many top students go through the program, at least from a transcript and recommendation perspective. Even these top performers were not always capable of providing every procedure at an above average level. The GPR year allowed them to develop their rudimentary skills. Those of you who believe that coming out of school, you are able to provide top restorative or removable care are incorrect. I will not even go into fixed, implant or endo care. A year in a GPR or AEGD gives you a chance to do more supervised cases, hopefully learning from an experienced faculty. It will also give you a year to see more "out of the box" cases. I agree, a handful of D4's can go straight into private practice and do well, but for most, the extra year is well worth it. I also agree that not all GPR's/AEGD's are worth attending. Choose wisely.