Why do OMFS residents get an MD degree?

[schrizto]

Why do some OMFS residents go through two years of medical school during a six-year residency to end up with an MD degree? Looking at the letters after someone's name who comes out of training with these degrees seems like overkill. If OMFS really does employ all the knowledge gained from a dental degree and medical degree, then that is an extraordinary breadth of information, IMO.

I don't hang around the dental forums on SDN a whole lot so please excuse if I don't seem to know much about the topic.

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[armorshell]

Moving to the residency forum

 

[toofache32]

Why do some OMFS residents go through two years of medical school during a six-year residency to end up with an MD degree? Looking at the letters after someone's name who comes out of training with these degrees seems like overkill. If OMFS really does employ all the knowledge gained from a dental degree and medical degree, then that is an extraordinary breadth of information, IMO.

I don't hang around the dental forums on SDN a whole lot so please excuse if I don't seem to know much about the topic.

Quick and dirty version: As a dental specialty, a dental degree is required while a medical degree is optional. About 40% of the programs in the USA offer (or require) a medical degree as part of the residency. Completely optional and depends on your goals.

 

[schrizto]

Quick and dirty version: As a dental specialty, a dental degree is required while a medical degree is optional. About 40% of the programs in the USA offer (or require) a medical degree as part of the residency. Completely optional and depends on your goals.

Thanks for the response. I think what I am trying to ask is, how is the MD degree utilized in this specialty?

 

[gujudentist]

It basically serves as a stepping stone to certain fellowships. For instance, craniofacial surgery, ENT, plastics require an MD. All of these can help certain oral surgeons become more comprehensive head and neck surgeons that is quite useful in certain hospitals/cities. For instance, Im doing my dental work at Pitt and am working with faculty in oral surgery who have dual degrees...Their practice encompasses not only oral surgery procedures (ie. extractions, implants, leforts) but more in depth cases of ENT, craniofacial reconstructions that involves heavy knowledge of neurosurgery, etc.

On the private practice side, the MD (unfairly, in my opinion) allows the docs to admit patients into the hospital with more ease than a 4-yr trained surgeon.

Both are equally capable with respect to the field of oral surgery, but the MD is a stepping stone for fellowships.

I'm sure surgeons can correct/add to what Ive written, but that is my general understanding and I am someone who is considering omfs and confused whether to pursue the 4 or 6 year program.

 

[K Niner]

Thanks for the response. I think what I am trying to ask is, how is the MD degree utilized in this specialty?

I'm not saying the MD oral surgeons are better at oral surgery than the 4-year dudes, but the MD degree is utilized in exactly the same way as any orthopedic surgeon, plastic surgeon, etc. utilizes the degree.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

On the private practice side, the MD allows the docs to admit patients into the hospital with more ease than a 4-yr trained surgeon.

Not really true. Admitting rights for procedures is usually based on Board certification and experience. (MD or DDS both oral surgeons sit for the same "Board Certification" exams)

 

[KlingonDentist]

For most the MD is just glamour and ego. It is a simple truth.

 

[Yahtzee]

For most the MD is just glamour and ego. It is a simple truth.

Is that it? Boy, don't us dual degree guys feel foolish right about now.

 

[K Niner]

Is that it? Boy, don't us dual degree guys feel foolish right about now.

How do you personally utilize the MD degree?

 

[korndoctor]

two questions,
do you have to take MCAT when applying for the 6 year OMFS program?
if so, what if we took mcat twice in undergrad and didnt do well (scored 20 and 19 second time due to poor english/verbal skills....3 on verbal!) but now im predental. will the very low mcat scores in past affect my application later when i apply to OMFS residencies?

 

[sajjy]

two questions,
do you have to take MCAT when applying for the 6 year OMFS program?
if so, what if we took mcat twice in undergrad and didnt do well (scored 20 and 19 second time due to poor english/verbal skills....3 on verbal!) but now im predental. will the very low mcat scores in past affect my application later when i apply to OMFS residencies?

Korn, I think I know who you are. Anyways, for the love of god think of getting into a dental school and then doing great in dental school. Applying for specialty is very very far down the road.

 

[korndoctor]

i am brian kelser, have i met you before? did you go to university of connecticut? i saw somewhere on forums you was BME? i am EE/cse so we would had take sam e classes perhaps?
yes it was very sad situation. i took first mcat and got Biological sci: 8, physical sci: 10, verbal: 2. then i waited 2 months and took them again with no studying and received biological sci: 7, physical sci: 9 verbal: 3
so if my mcat was 20 and 19 when the average is 30, will this hurt me for OMFS? i need to know to decide what speciality i want. so i can pursue others if needed. i did rock the dat's so maybe that enough. got 24 AA, 23 TS and 27 PAT.
let me know what u think sajjy.
and for u info, its not early..3 years down road i will be applying specialty. what speciality are u applying to

 

[biologic_width]

Korn, I think I know who you are. Anyways, for the love of god think of getting into a dental school and then doing great in dental school. Applying for specialty is very very far down the road.

This is not the nicest response, you know...

It's never to early for planning on specializing, especially if you're thinking of OMFS (if you are, more power to you - that residency is tough, tough, TOUGH!).

 

[korndoctor]

i agree biological_width, at least people should provide constructive criticism and how i will go about the process. i'm new here and still pre-dental. it's people like sajjy who have big ego's that ruin it for us

 

[cwebb4]

i am brian kelser, have i met you before? did you go to university of connecticut? i saw somewhere on forums you was BME? i am EE/cse so we would had take sam e classes perhaps?
yes it was very sad situation. i took first mcat and got Biological sci: 8, physical sci: 10, verbal: 2. then i waited 2 months and took them again with no studying and received biological sci: 7, physical sci: 9 verbal: 3
so if my mcat was 20 and 19 when the average is 30, will this hurt me for OMFS? i need to know to decide what speciality i want. so i can pursue others if needed. i did rock the dat's so maybe that enough. got 24 AA, 23 TS and 27 PAT.
let me know what u think sajjy.
and for u info, its not early..3 years down road i will be applying specialty. what speciality are u applying to

MCAT is not gonna hurt your chance when you applied to OMFS. They are not gonna ask you about MCAT score but they are going to ask you about your undergard GPA. It's really surprising to me that u did well on DAT and worse on MCAT. (Did you feel prepared before you took the MCAT??) I took both tests 10 years ago, and I got 35 on the MCAT and 23 on DAT. I thought DAT was harder in my opinion. They ask you about straight facts. I still remember mammal bone question.(WTF)
I think you should still think about why you wanna do dentistry. You will feel like hell if you just apply to dental school because you got the good DAT score and don't like it. AFter I took both tests, I shadowed for like 6 months each area and I realized I liked dentistry more than medicine. SO, you should try and exprience more. Right now, I'm glad I chose dentistry.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

 

[BIGDENT]

It would be VERY foolish for you to go into dental school without a passion for general dentistry. Specializing in dentistry fields is different than any other professional school in that is is extremely competitive in nearly every specialty across the board. Some areas are more competitive than others, but OMFS ranks near the top of that specialty list. I by no means want to question your ability and what hard work can do for someone, but finishing top 5% in your class and scoring an equally impressive boards score is not something anyone should plan their future around. You will find that the people in your dental school class that say that they are going to specialize in the 1st two weeks of school will more often than not be found in the bottom 20% of your class. My dad (who is an OMFS) always says make sure you keep an open mind, but keep that open mind to yourself.

 

[Thunderdome23]

As far as "how to utilize an MD", I never quite know what they mean when predents ask this question. The MD is not something that you either choose to "use" or not. It is a degree that stands for a higher knowledge of medical information that can be "used" at any time without the person knowing they are using it. It allows the dentist to better treat medically complex cases with more ease, have a better understanding of the medical conditions and sequelae associated with them, and just overall gives the dentist an overall larger armarmentarium of medical knowledge in his/her brain to use when needed (i.e. during emergencies, with medically complex cases, understanding medicine as a means of pursuing a personal interest, and helping family members with their general health concerns, etc...). More knowledge is never wasted, and never not used.

 

[servitup]

very well said

 

[armorshell]

As far as "how to utilize an MD", I never quite know what they mean when predents ask this question. The MD is not something that you either choose to "use" or not. It is a degree that stands for a higher knowledge of medical information that can be "used" at any time without the person knowing they are using it. It allows the dentist to better treat medically complex cases with more ease, have a better understanding of the medical conditions and sequelae associated with them, and just overall gives the dentist an overall larger armarmentarium of medical knowledge in his/her brain to use when needed (i.e. during emergencies, with medically complex cases, understanding medicine as a means of pursuing a personal interest, and helping family members with their general health concerns, etc...). More knowledge is never wasted, and never not used.

My assumption has always been when someone asks how you "use" an MD, what they're actually trying to say is "What is the value of an MD"

 

[smogdodger]

When most people look at the dual-degree programs, they are asking, "What is the value of the MD degree itself?" This is because most people (and I'm stating the obvious) are thinking of their career goals. Completion of the MD in OMS training is a personal fulfillment thing for various masochistic folks. In other words, some people simply decide they would like to experience personal enrichment by completing formal medical education, whether or not this translates into furthering their career. It clearly comes at a significant financial price. There are few times in one's life, however, when they can focus all their efforts on becoming more knowledgeable about the human body. Surgical training is sufficiently rigorous that one may spend so much time learning and performing procedures that they don't have time to focus on learning medicine. Most of us have 30-40 yrs of going to work. It just seems like a great benefit to be able to take 2 extra years up front and become a better/more knowledgeable doctor for the duration of your career. My opinion only.

 

[armorshell]

When most people look at the dual-degree programs, they are asking, "What is the value of the MD degree itself?" This is because most people (and I'm stating the obvious) are thinking of their career goals. Completion of the MD in OMS training is a personal fulfillment thing for various masochistic folks. In other words, some people simply decide they would like to experience personal enrichment by completing formal medical education, whether or not this translates into furthering their career. It clearly comes at a significant financial price. There are few times in one's life, however, when they can focus all their efforts on becoming more knowledgeable about the human body. Surgical training is sufficiently rigorous that one may spend so much time learning and performing procedures that they don't have time to focus on learning medicine. Most of us have 30-40 yrs of going to work. It just seems like a great benefit to be able to take 2 extra years up front and become a better/more knowledgeable doctor for the duration of your career. My opinion only.

Well put.

 

[OMSPlayer05]

In my opinion as an OMS, if you are treating a medically complex patient in a hospital environment, you are going to count on Internal Medicine ect.. to manage these complex medical issues even if you are an OMS with a MD. There is no reason to take the risk of managing these issues when you have someone who is clearly more qualified to do so. From a medicolegal standpoint, this is what makes most sense and 99% of OMS's would agree with this. In my five months of practice thus far, I have yet to find any appreciable benefit to having an MD vs. not having one. Just my two cents.

 

[servitup]

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

One must remember that you don't know what you don't know. Therefore, only someone who has received a medical education can truly understand its value. Everybody else is simply unaware of the impact it makes on your day to day decision making and patient evaluation.

 

[KlingonDentist]

There are always good arguments for both sides of the fence. But the majority of the people who decide to go the MD route is cause it looks cool behind their name period. a DDS OMS is just as qualified to do bread and butter OS end of story.

 

[servitup]

There are always good arguments for both sides of the fence. But the majority of the people who decide to go the MD route is cause it looks cool behind their name period. a DDS OMS is just as qualified to do bread and butter OS end of story.

No one in their right mind would choose 2 extra years of training, possible increased student loans, and 2 more years waiting to make money to "look cool"

 

[OMSPlayer05]

I am sure doing an OB-Gyn or Pysch rotation make you a "much better" oral surgeon. I haven't had to perform a Gynecological exam on too many oral surgery patients recently. Also, if OMS's with MD were superior then the MD would be required. Also, OMS is a dental specialty (thank goodness) and not a medical specialty and I hope it stays that way. Also, since most OMS referrals are dental in origin, your referrals could care less what letters are behind your name. To servitup: enjoy those two extra years of training because they will make little difference when you are out practicing. Also, going through a watered down version of medical school and year internship hardly make you an authority on medical decision making and evaluation.

 

[FTW OMFS]

Boy, this is dangerous. I think my medical training has changed how I practice. It was worth the 2 extra years and price, IMO. Also, it's a marketing thing. I've had patient's come to me over other guys because they saw the MD after my name.

 

[anschutz1913]

The value of an MD is two fold:

first, (perhaps most importantly) it allows you to wear a stethoscope into a bar, and tell women you are doctor, AND a dentist.

second, marketing. Many people do not know what a DDS or DMD is, but see the MD and understand.

 

[shabu2]

I am sure doing an OB-Gyn or Pysch rotation make you a "much better" oral surgeon. I haven't had to perform a Gynecological exam on too many oral surgery patients recently. Also, if OMS's with MD were superior then the MD would be required. Also, OMS is a dental specialty (thank goodness) and not a medical specialty and I hope it stays that way. Also, since most OMS referrals are dental in origin, your referrals could care less what letters are behind your name. To servitup: enjoy those two extra years of training because they will make little difference when you are out practicing. Also, going through a watered down version of medical school and year internship hardly make you an authority on medical decision making and evaluation.

You shouldn't knock what you haven't personally experienced yourself. Only those who have EARNED their MD's can comment on the value of their choice. I don't really encounter many residents who regret getting their MDs, but I have met more than one who regret not getting one.

 

[KlingonDentist]

"It was worth the 2 extra years and price, IMO. Also, it's a marketing thing. I've had patient's come to me over other guys because they saw the MD after my name. "

"The value of an MD is two fold:

first, (perhaps most importantly) it allows you to wear a stethoscope into a bar, and tell women you are doctor, AND a dentist.

second, marketing. Many people do not know what a DDS or DMD is, but see the MD and understand. "


The above 2 posts just confirmed what I've been saying:" Its cool to be an MD/DDS" BUT that is as far as it goes.

 

[KlingonDentist]

I don't really encounter many residents who regret getting their MDs, but I have met more than one who regret not getting one.

Regret not being cool.

 

[KlingonDentist]

No one in their right mind would choose 2 extra years of training, possible increased student loans, and 2 more years waiting to make money to "look cool"

I would. In fact I almost became cool if not for personal issues 7yrs ago.

 

[cgurries]

Can you get an MD faster if you've already done the Oral Surgery Residency?
I am actually not in Dental School yet, but i plan on going through the Army's scholarship program. Then i want to do a residency in OMS, but would also like to get an MD. I dont think the Army offers that residency though and so i want to know if i can get a "Accelerated" MD through any schools after i do my OMS residency and serve for the Army for another 4 years.

 

[OMSPlayer05]

As my bank account grows by vast amounts it could care less whether there is an MD behind my name. Of course, who is going to admit they wasted two years of their life. I love how the 6 year people try to put a positive spin on those two extra years. In fact, it is just the opposite for me: I have met more people who wish they had done a four year program rather then a 6 year program.

 

[yl4lif3]

But on the other hand, what single-degree OMFS is going to admit that they'd be a better doctor had they taken the time to get a proper medical education.
Lest an innocent dental student read this and become disillusioned about dual-degree programs, let me cut/paste my own opinion, which I've shared before...
"Dual degree surgeons can assure themselves and their patients that every educational measure was taken to be able to provide the best care possible; peace of mind knowing that no shortcuts or 'fast-tracks' were taken in order to accommodate personal desires or family obligations. Do a quick search of the American College of Surgeons and see how many single degree OMFSs are Fellows.
Single degree surgeons will always have an inferiority complex, wondering for the rest of their lives if such-and-such patient could have been better medically managed; wondering if they would be better doctors if they had taken the time to get a proper medical education; they will never know."

 

[KlingonDentist]

But on the other hand, what single-degree OMFS is going to admit that they'd be a better doctor had they taken the time to get a proper medical education.
Lest an innocent dental student read this and become disillusioned about dual-degree programs, let me cut/paste my own opinion, which I've shared before...
"Dual degree surgeons can assure themselves and their patients that every educational measure was taken to be able to provide the best care possible; peace of mind knowing that no shortcuts or 'fast-tracks' were taken in order to accommodate personal desires or family obligations. Do a quick search of the American College of Surgeons and see how many single degree OMFSs are Fellows.
Single degree surgeons will always have an inferiority complex, wondering for the rest of their lives if such-and-such patient could have been better medically managed; wondering if they would be better doctors if they had taken the time to get a proper medical education; they will never know."

This is the most Egotistical sentence I've ever seen that really confirms my theory. It is mostly about EGO why one chooses dual degree OS. Yeah, they'll never know how big our ego is...

 

[FTW OMFS]

As my bank account grows by vast amounts it could care less whether there is an MD behind my name. Of course, who is going to admit they wasted two years of their life. I love how the 6 year people try to put a positive spin on those two extra years. In fact, it is just the opposite for me: I have met more people who wish they had done a four year program rather then a 6 year program.

I love the way you put a negative spin on education.

When I got into dental school I stopped attending my college histology class and got a D. The prof asked what happened. When I told him he said, "I understand...but I never regretted learning anything." What a wise man.

It's not about the money - I know I won't make more money with an MD. It's not about ego. It was a personal goal. I didn't know if I wanted to go medical or dental. My dad was an oral surgeon and I liked his lifestyle but I was interested in medicine. When he told me lots of oral surgeons were going to medical school I made my decision.

My partner is single degree. We don't compare our education or brain power. I ask him questions for the voice of experience. He asks me questions to get a medical perspective. We have yet to hold a pissing contest.

 

[gary_ruska]

This is the most Egotistical sentence I've ever seen that really confirms my theory. It is mostly about EGO why one chooses dual degree OS. Yeah, they'll never know how big our ego is...

Gary "planet-sized ego" Ruska here,

Its not about ego for everyone (some, but not all). The bottom line is that, as a practicing OMFS, you are responsible for a given amount of medical knowledge, regardless of what letters are after your name. Getting the MD is simply one way of acquiring that knowledge - through a dedicated course of study with a fixed amount of time devoted to medicine and standardized assessments to ensure that you have the knowledge. 4-year program graduates are responsible for the same amount of medical knowledge, but learn it in less time, in a less standardized way and without continued assessment of knowledge acquisition.

The end product is likely the same - it all depends on how you like to learn and what route you feel, personally, will result in the best care for your patients.

Also, given that most of the major fellowship areas for OMFS overlap with plastics and ENT, the MD degree puts everyone on relatively equal footing when one is applying for privileges. If you doubt this, ask Esclavo about getting privileges at his hospital and the fuss an ENT put up because he is "just a dentist".

GR is grateful for medical school and the knowledge obtained therein and would echo the sentiment that one cannot put a dollar value on knowledge. In the span of a 30+ year career, 2 years of medical school does not make a huge difference, especially if you feel it makes you a better care provider.

 

[EuroOMFS]

Also, given that most of the major fellowship areas for OMFS overlap with plastics and ENT, the MD degree puts everyone on relatively equal footing when one is applying for privileges. If you doubt this, ask Esclavo about getting privileges at his hospital and the fuss an ENT put up because he is "just a dentist".

It's of course total bu*****t to state that an MD is totally useless to an OMFS. And it has nothing to do with ego either. You're quite simply better of with an MD.

True, you're not going to get better at oral surgery just because you have an MD, and you'll most likely learn enough "medicine" during recidency to function completely fine, working in a hospital with other specialities.

As GR points out in his post, it's the practical aspect of an MD that matter most in the end.

I'm single degree. I work a lot with ENT at my hospital. I do orthognathic cases, iliac crest harvest, TMJ surgery, I work with plastics on reconstruction with vascularized grafts and so on, and nobody gives me a hard time.

For a long time the iliac creast was off imits for the OMFSs at our hospital, but thankfully that has changed, through the hard work of my predicessors. But when it comes to trauma it's a different story. Some of the ENTs don't like "the dentists" doing zygomas or orbits. We do zygomas and orbits, but at the risk of a confrontation with ENT afterwards. However, no ENT at my hospital can raise a a bicoronal flap, so they sometimes call us in to do it for them.

It's double standard and stupid, I know. But without an MD, we're always going to be in a vulnerable position against other specialities, escpially those that cross with OMFS.

If I were a dental student considering a career in OMFS, other than strictly private practice, I'd go with a double degree. No question.

 

[Guy Smiley]

It's of course total bu*****t to state that an MD is totally useless to an OMFS. And it has nothing to do with ego either. You're quite simply better of with an MD.

True, you're not going to get better at oral surgery just because you have an MD, and you'll most likely learn enough "medicine" during recidency to function completely fine, working in a hospital with other specialities.

As GR points out in his post, it's the practical aspect of an MD that matter most in the end.

I'm single degree. I work a lot with ENT at my hospital. I do orthognathic cases, iliac crest harvest, TMJ surgery, I work with plastics on reconstruction with vascularized grafts and so on, and nobody gives me a hard time.

For a long time the iliac creast was off imits for the OMFSs at our hospital, but thankfully that has changed, through the hard work of my predicessors. But when it comes to trauma it's a different story. Some of the ENTs don't like "the dentists" doing zygomas or orbits. We do zygomas and orbits, but at the risk of a confrontation with ENT afterwards. However, no ENT at my hospital can raise a a bicoronal flap, so they sometimes call us in to do it for them.

It's double standard and stupid, I know. But without an MD, we're always going to be in a vulnerable position against other specialities, escpially those that cross with OMFS.

If I were a dental student considering a career in OMFS, other than strictly private practice, I'd go with a double degree. No question.

Why can't ENT do a bicoronal?

 

[EuroOMFS]

Why can't ENT do a bicoronal?

That is, indeed, a good question. Those ENTs at our hospital that are skilled surgeons usually try to involve themselves as little as possible with trauma cases. They're busy doing ablative and reconstructive surgery. The less skilled ones take the trauma cases and none of them have trained to do a bicoronal.

 

[Thunderdome23]

Why stop with an MD, DMD? Why not also get a PhD in oral surgery so you can REALLY be confident that every measure was taken to assure that you are thoroughly educated to provide the best care and knowledge for your patients. And it would also be a good idea to get an MBA to help run the business you own. And an MPH in case your patient has any public health questions for you. COME ON GUYS, CHILL OUT! Oral and maxillofacial surgery is a DENTAL SPECIALTY for crying out load. You need to have a dental degree to do this, and historically this has always been the case. You are a very well trained oral surgeon with a DMD and 4 years of surgical training. you could ALWAYS get more training in anything you choose, and could always make the argument of "hey what's another 2 years? or what's another 3 years..etcc" But you know what? another 2 years is a lot when you keep adding on year after year, THEY ADD THE HELL UP! Many of us did 4 years of undergrad (some more), 4 years of dental school, and then 4 years of surgery. That's 12-13 years of post-high school education. CAN'T WE BE DONE THEn?!! You guys are gonna drive yourselves crazy!

 

[KlingonDentist]

"It's double standard and stupid, I know. But without an MD, we're always going to be in a vulnerable position against other specialities, escpially those that cross with OMFS.

If I were a dental student considering a career in OMFS, other than strictly private practice, I'd go with a double degree. No question. "


Yeah most people go to private practice where they hardly if any do crazy trauma cases.
Even in your own words most private practice OS don't need an MD if at all.

My theory remains, MOST do the dual degree to stroke ones ego.

Like I said there are always reasons why one do this or that but MOST do it for the glory. The more people argue about this the more revealing what the motives are.

If you want to venture into Medicine fine go get your MD.
But OS especially bread and butter OS, please give me a break...You are a DENTIST for crying out loud. YOU serve General Dentists.

For the record I'm a GP and I have confidence in my single dgree OS referal infact sometimes more than my dual degree ones. I say this because even some dual degree are out of touch with dentistry.

 

[ObeG]

Yes we can all agree that the dual OMFS and single degree OMFS practictioners have an equal surgical skill level...that is nothing to debate about.
The issue is that as a dental student applying for an OMFS residency you NEVER really know what kind of OMF surgeon you are going to be after residency. You may go into your residency planning on going into private practice, but realize that you love head and neck cancer, or you love pediatric craniofacial surgery or even cosmetics....Those fields are pretty much excluded to single degree OMFSers...with few exceptions
Hypothetical: if you were given a choice:
1. Attend a 3 year dental school but are only able to do general dentistry or..
2. Attend a 4 year dental school that allows you to apply for any specialty you want
What dental school would you choose???

 

[FTW OMFS]

If I admit I got an MD for my ego will you admit it bothers you because you're jealous?

 

[MODFather]

Personally, I think OMFS absolutely need MD degrees. Think about it. 3rd molars are next to a nerve and blood vessels. They are using very sharp instruments in a small space. A lot can go wrong when taking our impacted molars. They need to be ready with emergency equipment and drugs only real doctors can provide.

You can bet when I got my wisdom teeth out, it was by an MD. Sorry guys, but I'm not gonna put my life in the hands of a dentist. I refer my ortho extractions out to oral surgeons with MD's. Bicupids aren't are dangerous as 3rd molars, but you can never be too careful.

It's just too bad orthodontics doesn't offer a joint MD program as well.

 

[jaiceman]

This last post is in heavy contention for the most ******ed, post EVER in the history of SDN, WOW!! Strong ignorance buddy....lol



******...wow..

 

[KlingonDentist]

I would. In fact I almost became cool if not for personal issues 7yrs ago.

I did admit several post ago that I had a big Ego and wanted the MD, one step ahead of you bud. Am I jealous that I didn't get the MD? For a long time I was bitter, but not anymore. In fact I think I am liberated and happy that it didn't work out that way for me and I couldn't be happier where I am today.
To each his own. All I'm trying to do is to point out the facts that nobody wants to or care to talk about.

 

[GimmeThe301]

wow... i cant believe that someone could actually be ignorant enough to post something like that. hahahahahaahah... i can only laugh at the astonishing ignorance displayed.