Why DPM and Not DO or MD??

[Osteodog]

I know everyone's going to think I'm trying to start a conflagration, but I'm very curious about this. Try and remain civil and don't get too personal.

I'm a DPM (graduated from the old SF school in 1998) and I'm now a 3rd year DO student. I can say without hesitation or embarassment that I never wanted to go to pod school, but I always wanted to be a MD or DO. In my mind, a true physician was someone who could, theoretically, treat a person for any malady without legal or intellectual restriction. To me, this is an MD or DO and not a podiatrist.

I failed to get into either of those types of schools, but got accepted to every single DPM school. The whole time I was in pod school I wondered if I had made the right decision. I resigned myself to the reality that I was already investing money into it and it was unlikely that I could get into DO or MD school the next year or the year after that. Overseas med school was a remote possibility, but it seemed really uncertain.

Frankly, I never once met a person in my class who wanted to be podiatrist instead of an MD or DO. I met MANY students who were waiting for MD or DO responses during our 1st year and a good number of people left in the 2nd year to go to MD or DO school. And, honestly, everyone that I still stay in contact with has said that they would rather have their MD or DO based on some of the struggles they've encountered.

This brings me to my question. I've read several posts where the poster claims to have gotten into MD or DO school, but decided to go to pod school instead. This is mystifying to me. If it's because you wanted to be a foot specialist, you could be an orthopod, make a whole lot more money and have a whole lot more job opportunities and still focus on the foot. It would be easier to get on insurance plans (since there are limitations to how many DPM's can sign on), you would be infinitely more trained in surgery and you could branch off and do any other part of the body you wanted to. The differences are profound. What else is there about podiatry that is more appealing than allopathic or osteopathic medicine??

Just to calm some of you down, I will state that pods are the pre-eminent experts in the foot and ankle and they are a valuable and necessary part of our healthcare system.

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[IlizaRob]

I know everyone's going to think I'm trying to start a conflagration, but I'm very curious about this. Try and remain civil and don't get too personal.

I'm a DPM (graduated from the old SF school in 1998) and I'm now a 3rd year DO student. I can say without hesitation or embarassment that I never wanted to go to pod school, but I always wanted to be a MD or DO. In my mind, a true physician was someone who could, theoretically, treat a person for any malady without legal or intellectual restriction. To me, this is an MD or DO and not a podiatrist.

I failed to get into either of those types of schools, but got accepted to every single DPM school. The whole time I was in pod school I wondered if I had made the right decision. I resigned myself to the reality that I was already investing money into it and it was unlikely that I could get into DO or MD school the next year or the year after that. Overseas med school was a remote possibility, but it seemed really uncertain.

Frankly, I never once met a person in my class who wanted to be podiatrist instead of an MD or DO. I met MANY students who were waiting for MD or DO responses during our 1st year and a good number of people left in the 2nd year to go to MD or DO school. And, honestly, everyone that I still stay in contact with has said that they would rather have their MD or DO based on some of the struggles they've encountered.

This brings me to my question. I've read several posts where the poster claims to have gotten into MD or DO school, but decided to go to pod school instead. This is mystifying to me. If it's because you wanted to be a foot specialist, you could be an orthopod, make a whole lot more money and have a whole lot more job opportunities and still focus on the foot. It would be easier to get on insurance plans (since there are limitations to how many DPM's can sign on), you would be infinitely more trained in surgery and you could branch off and do any other part of the body you wanted to. The differences are profound. What else is there about podiatry that is more appealing than allopathic or osteopathic medicine??

Just to calm some of you down, I will state that pods are the pre-eminent experts in the foot and ankle and they are a valuable and necessary part of our healthcare system.

Wow, interesting post. I have not decided yet whether or not you are a troll especially considering your insinuation that pods are "intellectually restricted". I must point out to you that there is a different between intelligence and knowledge of a specific subject. However, I will indulge you with a response. First, I am not surprised that you never wanted to attend pod school. That would explain a lot ("little man syndrome"). I only hope in the future that students will be intelligent enough to not settle for something they dont see themselves enjoying. That would sure help out our profession.

To answer your question. DO school really isnt that hard to get into (unlike MD school). So I dont know why some seem to think that pod students are there cause they couldnt get in. But nonetheless, you have proved that there are those that exist. For me personally I would not be able to stand to be a family doc. It doesnt appeal to me at all. I wouldnt like to manage chronic conditions and am much more in favor of the fix it now. I also like the idea of being an expert in a certain area rather than a generalist. A combination of conservative and surgical treatment appeals to me where I would be able to get OR and clinic exposure. As far as "why not ortho". Yeah, I think I would enjoy it. Even if I were to specialize in the foot and ankle as an ortho does not mean that its what I would be doing most of the time. I would still do general ortho a lot. Besides that, its extremely difficult to land an ortho residency and the program has a much longer time commitment. Not appealing. I also dont care a bit about not being a "Full licensed" physician. Like I said, I dont want to manage chronic hypertension. Leave that to the FP.

In conclusion, if you dont want to be a podiatrist please dont go to pod school. Lifestyle and income has certainly proven to be worth while with my research but should not supplement any other goal you may have.

Quick question for the OP. Why is it that former pods who choose to go MD/DO still devote much of their limited time trying to rationalize their decision to leave? Its as if you are looking for a confirmation.

 

[jonwill]

I know everyone's going to think I'm trying to start a conflagration, but I'm very curious about this. Try and remain civil and don't get too personal.

I'm a DPM (graduated from the old SF school in 1998) and I'm now a 3rd year DO student. I can say without hesitation or embarassment that I never wanted to go to pod school, but I always wanted to be a MD or DO. In my mind, a true physician was someone who could, theoretically, treat a person for any malady without legal or intellectual restriction. To me, this is an MD or DO and not a podiatrist.

I failed to get into either of those types of schools, but got accepted to every single DPM school. The whole time I was in pod school I wondered if I had made the right decision. I resigned myself to the reality that I was already investing money into it and it was unlikely that I could get into DO or MD school the next year or the year after that. Overseas med school was a remote possibility, but it seemed really uncertain.

Frankly, I never once met a person in my class who wanted to be podiatrist instead of an MD or DO. I met MANY students who were waiting for MD or DO responses during our 1st year and a good number of people left in the 2nd year to go to MD or DO school. And, honestly, everyone that I still stay in contact with has said that they would rather have their MD or DO based on some of the struggles they've encountered.

This brings me to my question. I've read several posts where the poster claims to have gotten into MD or DO school, but decided to go to pod school instead. This is mystifying to me. If it's because you wanted to be a foot specialist, you could be an orthopod, make a whole lot more money and have a whole lot more job opportunities and still focus on the foot. It would be easier to get on insurance plans (since there are limitations to how many DPM's can sign on), you would be infinitely more trained in surgery and you could branch off and do any other part of the body you wanted to. The differences are profound. What else is there about podiatry that is more appealing than allopathic or osteopathic medicine??

Just to calm some of you down, I will state that pods are the pre-eminent experts in the foot and ankle and they are a valuable and necessary part of our healthcare system.

I shadowed a bunch of different docs and podiatric medicine was the one I enjoyed most. I love the clinical/surgical balance. "Theoretics" are just that. At some point, everyone has to choose a specialty. "Frankly, I never once met a person in my class who wanted to be podiatrist instead of an MD or DO" is a pretty idiotic statement. And seeing that many of us have the stats to get into MD/DO programs, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are a troll
Good luck my friend.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I know everyone's going to think I'm trying to start a conflagration, but I'm very curious about this. Try and remain civil and don't get too personal.

I'm a DPM (graduated from the old SF school in 1998) and I'm now a 3rd year DO student. I can say without hesitation or embarassment that I never wanted to go to pod school, but I always wanted to be a MD or DO. In my mind, a true physician was someone who could, theoretically, treat a person for any malady without legal or intellectual restriction. To me, this is an MD or DO and not a podiatrist.

I failed to get into either of those types of schools, but got accepted to every single DPM school. The whole time I was in pod school I wondered if I had made the right decision. I resigned myself to the reality that I was already investing money into it and it was unlikely that I could get into DO or MD school the next year or the year after that. Overseas med school was a remote possibility, but it seemed really uncertain.

Frankly, I never once met a person in my class who wanted to be podiatrist instead of an MD or DO. I met MANY students who were waiting for MD or DO responses during our 1st year and a good number of people left in the 2nd year to go to MD or DO school. And, honestly, everyone that I still stay in contact with has said that they would rather have their MD or DO based on some of the struggles they've encountered.

This brings me to my question. I've read several posts where the poster claims to have gotten into MD or DO school, but decided to go to pod school instead. This is mystifying to me. If it's because you wanted to be a foot specialist, you could be an orthopod, make a whole lot more money and have a whole lot more job opportunities and still focus on the foot. It would be easier to get on insurance plans (since there are limitations to how many DPM's can sign on), you would be infinitely more trained in surgery and you could branch off and do any other part of the body you wanted to. The differences are profound. What else is there about podiatry that is more appealing than allopathic or osteopathic medicine??

Just to calm some of you down, I will state that pods are the pre-eminent experts in the foot and ankle and they are a valuable and necessary part of our healthcare system.

I am one of those "posters who say they choose DPM over DO/MD." You say just become an orthopod. The vast majority of DO/MDs become family practitioners, and if you wanted to become an orthopod you had better be the top in your class. If you were a female or minority, you might have a chance in the political game (my opinion).

Another reason is I want to have a career that includes office interactions and surgery. Many DO/MD surgeons are in the OR all day and never talk to a patient (probably don't want to either). I enjoy having a career that I can mix a little family practice w/ a little surgery. And later in life, (if I'm lucky) I can only do office or only surgery.

But I have always told people that go into podiatry b/c you want a career in podiatry not b/c you are a MD/DO wanna be. You'll never be happy if you settle for something that you never wanted.

I agree w/ Rob. Why would you post here on this topic? Are you looking for validation or just stirring the pot?

 

[Osteodog]

Wow, interesting post. I have not decided yet whether or not you are a troll especially considering your insinuation that pods are "intellectually restricted". I must point out to you that there is a different between intelligence and knowledge of a specific subject. However, I will indulge you with a response. First, I am not surprised that you never wanted to attend pod school. That would explain a lot ("little man syndrome"). I only hope in the future that students will be intelligent enough to not settle for something they dont see themselves enjoying. That would sure help out our profession.

To answer your question. DO school really isnt that hard to get into (unlike MD school). So I dont know why some seem to think that pod students are there cause they couldnt get in. But nonetheless, you have proved that there are those that exist. For me personally I would not be able to stand to be a family doc. It doesnt appeal to me at all. I wouldnt like to manage chronic conditions and am much more in favor of the fix it now. I also like the idea of being an expert in a certain area rather than a generalist. A combination of conservative and surgical treatment appeals to me where I would be able to get OR and clinic exposure. As far as "why not ortho". Yeah, I think I would enjoy it. Even if I were to specialize in the foot and ankle as an ortho does not mean that its what I would be doing most of the time. I would still do general ortho a lot. Besides that, its extremely difficult to land an ortho residency and the program has a much longer time commitment. Not appealing. I also dont care a bit about not being a "Full licensed" physician. Like I said, I dont want to manage chronic hypertension. Leave that to the FP.

In conclusion, if you dont want to be a podiatrist please dont go to pod school. Lifestyle and income has certainly proven to be worth while with my research but should not supplement any other goal you may have.

Quick question for the OP. Why is it that former pods who choose to go MD/DO still devote much of their limited time trying to rationalize their decision to leave? Its as if you are looking for a confirmation.

I figured the 1st post would be defensive in nature.

"intellectual restriction" of course means that you are not as broadly educated as an MD or DO. DPM's are no more or less intelligent than anyone else.

As a DPM, you are not qualified to care for/treat anything that walks in your door. As an FP you can do anything you want. You can treat a sprained ankle, hemorrhoid, depression, irritable bowel syndrome, etc. You can traih yourself in almost anything like botox injections, sclerotherapy, etc. If you're not comfortable with your patient's condition, you refer. I agree that DPM's have the same D.E.A license as MD's and DO's and can, technically, prescribe anything they want (except for schedule 1 drugs). It's also true that orthopods won't Rx cardiac drugs and dermatologists won't prescribe anti-convulsants. The difference is that DO's and MD's have been educated and trained to be full physicians whereas DPM's have been trained to be podiatrists.

As far as "DO school isn't really that hard to get into", just how did you arrive at that opinion? Here's a link for you comparing DO and MD schools in terms of MCAT's and GPA

http://www.eckerd.edu/academics/nas/premed/MCAT_GPA_List.htm#OSTEOPATHIC.

If you check the stats, you'll see that DO schools are, on the average, less competitive than most MD schools. However, if you examine it more closely, you'll see that DO schools have higher or equivalent stats to many of the MD schools. In fact, my 2008 class in Pomona (average GPA of 3.5 and an average MCAT of 9) has stats that are superior to 38 of the MD schools listed. There are at least a dozen more who have statistics that are very close to ours.

Conversely, podiatry school admission requirements are comparatively less stringent.

"The average GPA of matriculants into podiatry schools was about 3.1 and the average science GPA was about 3.0. The average MCAT scores were about 7 in each section."

This is taken from http://www.lynchburg.edu/x3189.xml

As a matter of fact, I'm sure that you are aware that there are schools that will take DAT scores or even GRE scores in lieu of an MCAT score. That's kind of ridiculous if you ask me. Further, John McCord in Podiatry Today recently wrote "We have all heard about the low numbers of applicants to the podiatry schools. At this point, the applicant pool for the colleges is less than 200 for all seven podiatry schools."

http://www.podiatrytoday.com/article/pod_200104d8

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to see that the schools have to lower their standards in order to survive.

I'll say that the product of podiatry is generally competent and professional in what they do. In fact, I'd say, proportionally, DPM's emerge with the same level of competence and professionalism in their specialty as do DO's and MD's. In other words, I think that there are just as many fantastic and incompetent DPM's as there are DO's and MD's.

I've never had to rationalize my decision to leave. I wanted to leave from day one. It just wasn't possible. And, I'll agree with you that landing an ortho residency is no mean feat. There are a lot of ortho residencies in the country, though, and as long as you're not an idiot and have better than average aptitude and attitude, you'll probably get something. It really is easier to get in the back door via podiatry and be able to do some surgery. Also, as a fully licensed physician, you have lots and lots of choices as to what you want to do. You don't have to "manage chronic conditions". It's wide open. In podiatry school, you only have one choice.

 

[beastmaster]

Most physicians are intellectually and legally restricted from branches of medicine in which they don't specialized.

 

[jonwill]

I figured the 1st post would be defensive in nature.

"intellectual restriction" of course means that you are not as broadly educated as an MD or DO. DPM's are no more or less intelligent than anyone else.

As a DPM, you are not qualified to care for/treat anything that walks in your door. As an FP you can do anything you want. You can treat a sprained ankle, hemorrhoid, depression, irritable bowel syndrome, etc. You can traih yourself in almost anything like botox injections, sclerotherapy, etc. If you're not comfortable with your patient's condition, you refer. I agree that DPM's have the same D.E.A license as MD's and DO's and can, technically, prescribe anything they want (except for schedule 1 drugs). It's also true that orthopods won't Rx cardiac drugs and dermatologists won't prescribe anti-convulsants. The difference is that DO's and MD's have been educated and trained to be full physicians whereas DPM's have been trained to be podiatrists.

As far as "DO school isn't really that hard to get into", just how did you arrive at that opinion? Here's a link for you comparing DO and MD schools in terms of MCAT's and GPA

http://www.eckerd.edu/academics/nas/premed/MCAT_GPA_List.htm#OSTEOPATHIC.

If you check the stats, you'll see that DO schools are, on the average, less competitive than most MD schools. However, if you examine it more closely, you'll see that DO schools have higher or equivalent stats to many of the MD schools. In fact, my 2008 class in Pomona (average GPA of 3.5 and an average MCAT of 9) has stats that are superior to 38 of the MD schools listed. There are at least a dozen more who have statistics that are very close to ours.

Conversely, podiatry school admission requirements are comparatively less stringent.

"The average GPA of matriculants into podiatry schools was about 3.1 and the average science GPA was about 3.0. The average MCAT scores were about 7 in each section."

This is taken from http://www.lynchburg.edu/x3189.xml

As a matter of fact, I'm sure that you are aware that there are schools that will take DAT scores or even GRE scores in lieu of an MCAT score. That's kind of ridiculous if you ask me. Further, John McCord in Podiatry Today recently wrote "We have all heard about the low numbers of applicants to the podiatry schools. At this point, the applicant pool for the colleges is less than 200 for all seven podiatry schools."

http://www.podiatrytoday.com/article/pod_200104d8

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to see that the schools have to lower their standards in order to survive.

I'll say that the product of podiatry is generally competent and professional in what they do. In fact, I'd say, proportionally, DPM's emerge with the same level of competence and professionalism in their specialty as do DO's and MD's. In other words, I think that there are just as many fantastic and incompetent DPM's as there are DO's and MD's.

I've never had to rationalize my decision to leave. I wanted to leave from day one. It just wasn't possible. And, I'll agree with you that landing an ortho residency is no mean feat. There are a lot of ortho residencies in the country, though, and as long as you're not an idiot and have better than average aptitude and attitude, you'll probably get something. It really is easier to get in the back door via podiatry and be able to do some surgery. Also, as a fully licensed physician, you have lots and lots of choices as to what you want to do. You don't have to "manage chronic conditions". It's wide open. In podiatry school, you only have one choice.

You're missing the point. You never WANTED to be a podiatrist. Of course you failed! NO DOCTOR CAN TREAT ANYTHING THAT COMES IN HIS DOOR!

-There were actually 700 applicants last year (aacpm.org) for 8 schools.
-The link you posted nicely demonstrates that some of the DO schools have lower standards than podiatric medical schools (not to mention all of the new DO programs starting up).

PLEASE STOP POSTING. You are making a FOOL of yourself.

 

[jonwill]

Most physicians are intellectually and legally restricted from branches of medicine in which they don't specialized.

Thank you. My point exactly.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

You're missing the point. You never WANTED to be a podiatrist. Of course you failed! NO DOCTOR CAN TREAT ANYTHING THAT COMES IN HIS DOOR!

-There were actually 700 applicants last year (aacpm.org) for 8 schools.

PLEASE STOP POSTING. You are making a FOOL of yourself.

WOW. I have never seen Jonwill this mad. Jon remember that this guy was in the class of 1998.

 

[jonwill]

WOW. I have never seen Jonwill this mad. Jon remember that this guy was in the class of 1998.

What can I say? I hate ignorance! The funny thing is that I know graduates from that era at CSPM and they are doing very well. I'm betting that this guy is just screwing around. You are right though. From 1998 to now, things have changed quite a bit (residency, scope of practice, hospital privileges, etc). That is what pisses me off. You shouldn't post about things you know nothing about.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

What can I say? I hate ignorance! The funny thing is that I know graduates from that era at CSPM and they are doing very well. I'm betting that this guy is just screwing around. You are right though. From 1998 to now, things have changed quite a bit (residency, scope of practice, hospital privileges, etc). That is what pisses me off. You shouldn't post about things you know nothing about.

If we had a dollar for every poster that makes an dumb statement, we'd all be rich. The name changes but the b.s. is the same. I'm just ignoring them now. I'll post a quick comment but I'm no longer going to beat the dead horse. They post these comments to get people fired up. I'm sure this is Billclinton or one of those other jokers. They started a new name and need some entertainment.

 

[jonwill]

If we had a dollar for every poster that makes an dumb statement, we'd all be rich. The name changes but the b.s. is the same. I'm just ignoring them now. I'll post a quick comment but I'm no longer going to beat the dead horse. They post these comments to get people fired up. I'm sure this is Billclinton or one of those other jokers. They started a new name and need some entertainment.

Hey now, I miss Bill Something tells me that, in this case, he'd be on our side!

 

[IlizaRob]

This guy is hilarious. #1, if you use the word "intellectual" it means just that. #2, didnt we all agree that a podiatrist has a limited scope and that we cant treat everything that walks in our door? Isnt that why we wanted to be podiatrists? Again, Im not interested in treating hemorrhoids or irritable bowl syndrome. If I wanted to, I would have gone MD/DO. Hold on, this was my favorite line:

"The difference is that DO's and MD's have been educated and trained to be full physicians whereas DPM's have been trained to be podiatrists."

Duh!! Hence the school. You were the only one who didnt get it.

Ok, this thread has to go down in the record books. I love entertainment.

 

[repeat04]

This thread is so entertaining, I am going to waste my first post on it. Ignorance is bliss till it opens its mouth, then it is just crap.

 

[jonwill]

Whiskers, is that you????????

 

[jonwill]

This thread is so entertaining, I am going to waste my first post on it. Ignorance is bliss till it opens its mouth, then it is just crap.

Funny!

 

[repeat04]

Nope, I'm not wiskers, but lunch at Wendy's was pretty good today.

 

[IlizaRob]

Nope, I'm not wiskers, but lunch at Wendy's was pretty good today.

Hmmmmm.....

 

[ilikeamphibians]

Wow! I'm class of '98....in high school. I still wear my Doc Martins and my "Soccer is life" t-shirt. Oh wait.......no I don't! Time changes buddy.

Thanks. I wasted my first post on you.

 

[IlizaRob]

Wow! I'm class of '98....in high school. I still wear my Doc Martins and my "Soccer is life" t-shirt. Oh wait.......no I don't! Time changes buddy.

Thanks. I wasted my first post on you.

Wow Whiskers, how many different identities do you have?

 

[jonwill]

Wow Whiskers, how many different identities do you have?

 

[ilikeamphibians]

I'm not whiskers i swear! I like old exams!!!

 

[repeat04]

Cowboy's rule, you should figure it out now.

 

[Osteodog]

Too bad, people. I thought that there might be one person amongst you who would be interested in a mature discussion on the topic. My question was why would someone want to be a podiatrist if they had the statistics to get into MD or DO school. Pretty simple. The only legitimate response that I've read was the guy who said that getting an ortho residency is tough. That's true. And, if all you ever wanted to do was some ortho surgery then maybe podiatry is the best choice.

If all you've got is personal insults, save it. It's too easy to call me a troll, but much more challenging to debate me.

As far as the admissions standards - show me some recent stats on podiatry incoming class GPA's and MCAT's. Then compare it with my class. My class is the most recent statistics that I have so that's all I can comment on (3.5 and 9). Show me which podiatry class has higher stats than that. If so, I'll be mightily impressed. And that's only because the stats were nothing less than embarassing when I was a student. And, just for the record, I could give a #^%$ about stats - it just seems to be a popular topic.

Just by virtue of the fact that there were only 700 applicants for 8 schools...you've got to be kidding me!?! This figure is appalling!! My class back in 1998 had about 180 students! If the mantra about the baby boomers is true, you DO NOT have enough applicants to fill the seats!! Forget about QUALIFIED applicants. Doesn't that bother you? This means that the admissions committees across the country MUST take virtually every applicant just to stay in business! What is this going to do to the quality of the students? What about the reputation of the profession? There were several thousand applicants just to my school. They interviewed about 800 and accepted about 200. Please don't tell me that podiatry is anywhere near as competitive as DO school!

And, I'm sorry, any DO or MD CAN treat anything that walks in the door. Legally. A podiatrist cannot go beyond their scope. I'm not saying that any MD or DO is going to be adequately trained to do so but there are certainly cases of FP's in the hinterlands who perform many tasks, including minor surgery. But, just like a podiatrist going out of the scope of their training if a DO or MD does something that they're not qualified to do, they're just as liable.

What are "all of the new DO programs starting up"? Do you mean Touro or Virginia? That's two in the last 10 years. I'll say this - there is definitely going to be a need for more DPM's and DO/MD's in the near future.

And, for anyone that's wondering, things probably were different in my time from 1994-1998. Undoubtedly much worse than what you people are experiencing today. I had next to no clinical training and a "residency" that left me with not much more than a piece of paper. Those are just a couple of the reasons that I decided to quit and start medical school.

And "stirring the pot" is just me defending myself and my comments.

Go ahead. Flame away.

 

[jonwill]

-My schools stats for this year: GPA 3.4 MCAT 24
-467 accepted and 700 applicants = more than enough applicants to fill seats. Remember, podiatry is a much smaller profession so it's difficult to compare direct numbers. I agree that some schools accept people that I deem less than qualified. However, these people generally have a hard time passing boards and placing well into a 3 year surgical residency. That is a criticism I have about my profession. To some deans, it is all about the $$$, not whether someone succeeds or not.
-You have a huge dose of reality coming your way if you believe that MD's can treat anything that comes walking in your door (all theoretics aside). If you do anything other than what you specialize in, you will be sued blind. Each physician has a scope of practice. Hence, referrals!
-You are right in that you are from a different time. I think that is why your opinions differ so much from those on the site. Most pods now do 3 year surgical residencies and go on to work with multispecialty groups, ortho groups, hospitals, or existing private practice groups. It is a booming profession.
-The profession of podiatry had a rough time in the late 80's to mid 90's and it has no one to blame but itself. Those days are over though. To give you an idea, every program that I am going to this next year is in the orthopedics department of a major hospital or university (including the CCPM stronghold of VA New Mexico). And I'd have to say that is why many choose podiatric medicine. We are the premiere foot and ankle surgeons. We are the best at what we do and we enjoy it.
-No one is trying to start a flame war but some of your statements are less than accurate of podiatric medicine TODAY. And I find blanket statements such as "Frankly, I never once met a person in my class who wanted to be podiatrist instead of an MD or DO" extremely hard to believe. There were a few in my class that decided to go the DO route after they decided podiatry was not for them. They simply applied and were accepted to programs the very next year.
-I sincerely hope that you are more successful as a DO than you were as a DPM. Just because it didn't work out for you does not make it a bad profession.

 

[doctor-wanabe]

-My schools stats for this year: GPA 3.4 MCAT 24
-467 accepted and 700 applicants = more than enough applicants to fill seats. Remember, podiatry is a much smaller profession so it's difficult to compare direct numbers. I agree that some schools accept people that I deem less than qualified. However, these people generally have a hard time passing boards and placing well into a 3 year surgical residency. That is a criticism I have about my profession. To some deans, it is all about the $$$, not whether someone succeeds or not.
-You have a huge dose of reality coming your way if you believe that MD's can treat anything that comes walking in your door (all theoretics aside). If you do anything other than what you specialize in, you will be sued blind. Each physician has a scope of practice. Hence, referrals!
-You are right in that you are from a different time. I think that is why your opinions differ so much from those on the site. Most pods now do 3 year surgical residencies and go on to work with multispecialty groups, ortho groups, hospitals, or existing private practice groups. It is a booming profession.
-The profession of podiatry had a rough time in the late 80's to mid 90's and it has no one to blame but itself. Those days are over though. To give you an idea, every program that I am going to this next year is in the orthopedics department of a major hospital or university (including the CCPM stronghold of VA New Mexico). And I'd have to say that is why many choose podiatric medicine. We are the premiere foot and ankle surgeons. We are the best at what we do and we enjoy it.
-No one is trying to start a flame war but some of your statements are less than accurate of podiatric medicine TODAY. And I find blanket statements such as "Frankly, I never once met a person in my class who wanted to be podiatrist instead of an MD or DO" extremely hard to believe. There were a few in my class that decided to go the DO route after they decided podiatry was not for them. They simply applied and were accepted to programs the very next year.
-I sincerely hope that you are more successful as a DO than you were as a DPM. Just because it didn't work out for you does not make it a bad profession.

Just becareful what you say. Your tone of voice seemed haughty and rather arrogant about being a DO. I agree with what you said, podiatry is limited to the foot by law, however, podiatry is a rapidly changing field. Podiatry classes have merged with DO classes and the board exams for ankle or rear foot surgery is rather tough. So, don't put down podiatrists because in the end it's still a rigorous profession. Well, good luck at DO school and congratulations to you getting in. I hope this path leads you to a more fullfilled medical experience.

 

[capo]

Doc-wannabe, jonwill is a DPM not a DO student, first of all. Are you referring to him BEING the DO? He gave a good post with pods being his interest and qualifying the profession. Are you saying he is a DO student?

Osteodoc is the third year DO student. Your post quotes and replies to jonwill, except jonwill IS NOT a DO student -- but rather THE DPM student.

So reading your post, it makes no sense telling him not to sound haughty. He isn't sounding haughty.

 

[IlizaRob]

Doc-wannabe, jonwill is a DPM not a DO student, first of all. Are you referring to him BEING the DO? He gave a good post with pods being his interest and qualifying the profession. Are you saying he is a DO student?

Osteodoc is the third year DO student. Your post quotes and replies to jonwill, except jonwill IS NOT a DO student -- but rather THE DPM student.

So reading your post, it makes no sense telling him not to sound haughty. He isn't sounding haughty.

He replied to the wrong thread. I think he was refering to Osteodog.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Too bad, people. I thought that there might be one person amongst you who would be interested in a mature discussion on the topic. My question was why would someone want to be a podiatrist if they had the statistics to get into MD or DO school. Pretty simple. The only legitimate response that I've read was the guy who said that getting an ortho residency is tough. That's true. And, if all you ever wanted to do was some ortho surgery then maybe podiatry is the best choice.

If all you've got is personal insults, save it. It's too easy to call me a troll, but much more challenging to debate me.

As far as the admissions standards - show me some recent stats on podiatry incoming class GPA's and MCAT's. Then compare it with my class. My class is the most recent statistics that I have so that's all I can comment on (3.5 and 9). Show me which podiatry class has higher stats than that. If so, I'll be mightily impressed. And that's only because the stats were nothing less than embarassing when I was a student. And, just for the record, I could give a #^%$ about stats - it just seems to be a popular topic.

Just by virtue of the fact that there were only 700 applicants for 8 schools...you've got to be kidding me!?! This figure is appalling!! My class back in 1998 had about 180 students! If the mantra about the baby boomers is true, you DO NOT have enough applicants to fill the seats!! Forget about QUALIFIED applicants. Doesn't that bother you? This means that the admissions committees across the country MUST take virtually every applicant just to stay in business! What is this going to do to the quality of the students? What about the reputation of the profession? There were several thousand applicants just to my school. They interviewed about 800 and accepted about 200. Please don't tell me that podiatry is anywhere near as competitive as DO school!

And, I'm sorry, any DO or MD CAN treat anything that walks in the door. Legally. A podiatrist cannot go beyond their scope. I'm not saying that any MD or DO is going to be adequately trained to do so but there are certainly cases of FP's in the hinterlands who perform many tasks, including minor surgery. But, just like a podiatrist going out of the scope of their training if a DO or MD does something that they're not qualified to do, they're just as liable.

What are "all of the new DO programs starting up"? Do you mean Touro or Virginia? That's two in the last 10 years. I'll say this - there is definitely going to be a need for more DPM's and DO/MD's in the near future.

And, for anyone that's wondering, things probably were different in my time from 1994-1998. Undoubtedly much worse than what you people are experiencing today. I had next to no clinical training and a "residency" that left me with not much more than a piece of paper. Those are just a couple of the reasons that I decided to quit and start medical school.

And "stirring the pot" is just me defending myself and my comments.

Go ahead. Flame away.

Of course people will take your comments personally. You came in here and said that your choice in life is a joke, and you want them to be civil? I feel I answered your question in a non-inflammatory way, why not answer mine? Why would you start this post this topic? Are you looking for justification of your choice or just looking to poke the bears?

 

[Osteodog]

Thank you, Jonwill for toning down the rhetoric.

I am truly happy to hear that the educational process and the residency situation has improved. I agree that I shouldn't be assuming things since much has likely changed since my time. Maybe if I were a pod student today I wouldn't feel the urge to jump ship and be a DO.

My education and training was fairly abysmal so I guess I'm coming from a totally different perspective. My 3rd and 4th years were so slipshod and inconsistent, I thought that somehow my actual residency would bail me out. No such luck. You were very fortunate to get a 2 year surgical when I applied and, even if you had good grades and were well liked (me, believe it or not) you were still more likely to get a one year PPMR or RPR. I got the former at USC (which no longer exists - the pod residency) and got a total of 5 months of actual pod training along with 7 months of hospital training. All of that with a 10k stipend for the year. I had to wait tables on my days off just to live. For me, that was the final straw for podiatry. I knew that I was going to get out when I could, but I thought I had to try and make some money before I quit altogether. I found a Medi-Medi mill in Los Angeles that was not entirely on the up and up, but paid relatively well. I stomached that for 3 years and then got accepted to DO school.

Why do you think the application pool is so small? If you're saying 700 applicants and 467 accepted, that still means that, on the average, each school could only support something like 88 students. And, that's if every single applicant is accepted! The classes in the mid-90's all had student populations well over 100. If I remember correctly, the overall applicant pool was several thousand. That's mind boggling to me. Is the profession in danger of disappearing? The interest has clearly waned since my time.

I think we're differing semantically on the issue of a DO/MD being able to treat anything that walks in the door. LEGALLY, they can, but if the condition is beyond their training, they would be advised not to proceed. But there's nothing preventing an FP from doing an appendectomy if they feel that they've had sufficient training. That's a fact. There is plenty of precedent for it. A podiatrist cannot treat anything above the knee. You can prescribe an anticoagulant, but it has to be for the lower extremity. That's the only point I was trying to make. A DO/MD has the medical training to treat anything that walks into the door, but in these medico-legal days, they would be an idiot to try something out just because they have the license.

 

[ProZackMI]

First, I'm an MD, so I just wanted to say that up front. A few points crossed my mind while reading this post.

1) The basic assumption is that NO ONE wants to be a podiatrist, and presumably, a dentist, optometrist, psychologist, pharmacist, veterinarian, etc. Those professionals are simply physician wannabes who couldn't get into medical school. In other words, podiatrists only exist because some student had to "settle for less". That's...um...stupid. There are people out there who don't want to be MDs. Podiatry has a somewhat limited scope of practice, but allows for great professional fulfillment. To assume that no DPM ever wanted to go to pod school is not only fallacious, but generalized stupidity. The OP is obviously projecting his own personal regrets and feelings of inadequacy onto the entire profession. Of course, while in school, and after graduation, he'd gravitate toward others who feel the same way. It's probably true, among practicing DPMs, and DPM students, there are likely those who really wanted to be an MD or DO, but settled. So? What does that prove? There are MDs out there, like me, who really wanted to be lawyers, but settled. There are MDs out there who really wanted to be art historians, but settled. I had a classmate at MSU College of Human Med who finished her MD, decided against finishing her IM residency, and went off to do a PhD in art history.

Life isn't always black and white. What's true for the OP and a few classmates is not true for the podiatric universe. You simply can't extrapolate such vagaries about an entire profession.

2) As an MD, I can tell you that while I can legally perform almost any medical procedure, I cannot ethically do so. I'm a psychiatrist and internist. While I could treat a patient for a detached retina, would I? HELL NO! Would I treat a patient for uterine fibroids? NO! Would I treat attempt to do an ORIF on a comminuted fx of the R tib? Having the legal authority to do something and exercising that authority are two vastly different things. All physicians know their limits and boundaries, professionally and intellectually. Practicing outside the scope of one's training is dangerous and could be career suicide. If you were really an osteo student, you would know that your statement is not based on fact.

If you are a DPM who truly felt as though you made the wrong career move, that says more about you than it does others who decided to stick with it. Once you finish your DO, what will stop you from saying to yourself "Hmm, I should have been an MD. I'm not really respected like an MD is. Maybe I should go to allo med school now!" Once you do that, what's next? "Maybe I should get a PhD because I really want to be a scientist!"

The key to be happy, professionally, is to know yourself. Know your likes/dislikes. Know your threshold for tolerance. Know your heart. If you never wanted to be a podiatrist, why would have you have wasted four years of your life plus all of that money? Why steal someone's place who may have really wanted to be a podiatrist? What does that say about you?

 

[jonwill]

First, I'm an MD, so I just wanted to say that up front. A few points crossed my mind while reading this post.

1) The basic assumption is that NO ONE wants to be a podiatrist, and presumably, a dentist, optometrist, psychologist, pharmacist, veterinarian, etc. Those professionals are simply physician wannabes who couldn't get into medical school. In other words, podiatrists only exist because some student had to "settle for less". That's...um...stupid. There are people out there who don't want to be MDs. Podiatry has a somewhat limited scope of practice, but allows for great professional fulfillment. To assume that no DPM ever wanted to go to pod school is not only fallacious, but generalized stupidity. The OP is obviously projecting his own personal regrets and feelings of inadequacy onto the entire profession. Of course, while in school, and after graduation, he'd gravitate toward others who feel the same way. It's probably true, among practicing DPMs, and DPM students, there are likely those who really wanted to be an MD or DO, but settled. So? What does that prove? There are MDs out there, like me, who really wanted to be lawyers, but settled. There are MDs out there who really wanted to be art historians, but settled. I had a classmate at MSU College of Human Med who finished her MD, decided against finishing her IM residency, and went off to do a PhD in art history.

Life isn't always black and white. What's true for the OP and a few classmates is not true for the podiatric universe. You simply can't extrapolate such vagaries about an entire profession.

2) As an MD, I can tell you that while I can legally perform almost any medical procedure, I cannot ethically do so. I'm a psychiatrist and internist. While I could treat a patient for a detached retina, would I? HELL NO! Would I treat a patient for uterine fibroids? NO! Would I treat attempt to do an ORIF on a comminuted fx of the R tib? Having the legal authority to do something and exercising that authority are two vastly different things. All physicians know their limits and boundaries, professionally and intellectually. Practicing outside the scope of one's training is dangerous and could be career suicide. If you were really an osteo student, you would know that your statement is not based on fact.

If you are a DPM who truly felt as though you made the wrong career move, that says more about you than it does others who decided to stick with it. Once you finish your DO, what will stop you from saying to yourself "Hmm, I should have been an MD. I'm not really respected like an MD is. Maybe I should go to allo med school now!" Once you do that, what's next? "Maybe I should get a PhD because I really want to be a scientist!"

The key to be happy, professionally, is to know yourself. Know your likes/dislikes. Know your threshold for tolerance. Know your heart. If you never wanted to be a podiatrist, why would have you have wasted four years of your life plus all of that money? Why steal someone's place who may have really wanted to be a podiatrist? What does that say about you?

 

[jonwill]

I certainly don’t think podiatric medicine is disappearing! Especially in the past decade (as our training has increased), we are being much more utilized by our medical counterparts. As before stated, we are hired on at hospitals, multispecialty groups, ortho groups, etc. When an infected wound or foot/ankle fx comes into the ER, we get called. As you said, our training is far superior to any other physician when it comes to the foot and ankle. Other physicians (most of them) now realize this and 90% of our business is referrals from them.

Why are application sizes so small? I think it is a few things. First, podiatry is a small branch of medicine. There are about 15,000 practicing podiatrists in the nation and 8 schools. Compare that to MD and DO programs of which there are hundreds. As podiatric medicine has become main-stream, these numbers will slowly increase. Secondly, I would have to site awareness. After the 90’s (more students were taken than residency slots were available and people got screwed), people were terrified of the profession. I hope the profession (and some of the deans in particular) learned their lesson. As training has slowly increased and more people are becoming aware of exactly what a podiatric physician now does, numbers have again increased (this can be seen at AACPM.ORG). However, the true reason I believe that podiatric medicine is small and will remain so is as follows: we have/are evolving into a surgical sub-specialty. If you look at ANY surgical sub-specialty, there just aren’t that many as compared to FP, IM, Peds, etc. They are not needed. You need a handful of highly medically and surgically trained individuals in a specific area and that is it. Again, that goes for any sub-specialty. Can you imagine having as many podiatrists as FP’s? We’d be worse than lawyers!

You are not the only one that got burned by podiatry. There are some pretty bitter individuals from that era and they have a right to be. But what that era needs to realize is that things have greatly changed. For example, residencies are now standardized (majority 3 year and some 2) and pay is on par with any other resident. The following link will take you to the current residency directory (notice the “unfilled” residency slots because there are now more residencies than students): http://www.casprcrip.org/ I believe that there are currently 520 residency slots nationwide.

Let’s just hope that down the road, schools don’t start taking 150 students a piece or history will repeat itself.

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

ProZackMI and jonwill,

Excellent points.

Osteodog,

jonwill's posting acknowledged that DPMs of your era have a right to be upset about the podiatric profession. I agree, wholeheartedly. I know you said you wanted to know why anyone choose DPM over MD/DO. I have done just that. I don't want to be an MD, though I am extremely competitive for some of the good MD programs in the country. I know I want a surgical sub-specialty with a medical aspect, so I don't have to do surgery all day long. I have a significant background in the health sciences and biomedical sciences and know exactly what I want.

I had my reservations about podiatry until I thoroughly examined the updated curriculum of several colleges of podiatric medicine. A lot has changed in terms of legislation and public deference in the realm of podiatric medicine since you were in school. This might be difficult to believe with how little time has passed (eg - less than 10 years) but it is absolutely true. I would not be interested in the podiatry that was offered to your generation. However, I have investigated podiatry thoroughly and have asked literally over a hundred people about their views of podiatrists. Most were healthcare practitioners. I received about 3 negative responses (all from older healthcare practitioners), over 95 responses indicating that these people didn't even know the podiatrist holds a DPM and not an MD. The remaining responses have received excellent podiatric care (or someone in their family). I was overwhelmed at the positive responses. All of these points I took into consideration. This is why I have chosen the DPM over the MD.

AZPOD Rocks

 

[Osteodog]

For our esteemed MD -

There was no assumption with my initial post. Only a question. Why would someone want to go to podiatry school if they had the opportunity to go to MD/DO school. Seems fairly straightforward to me. And, throwing in things like dentistry, vets, psychologists, etc. is really taking some poetic license. Where did I mention any of those? Where did I say that podiatry was an inferior profession. Where did I assume that no DPM wanted to go to pod school? Did I say somewhere that all DO's and MD's are happy with their professions and would not want to do anything else in their lives?? C'mon, friend. I only pointed out my own personal experiences. I never did hear from one person in my class that pod school was their 1st choice. I did hear from a significantly large number of people that they preferred MD or DO school. I didn't speak to every single person in my class on this topic, so there likely was a good number of people who thought pod school and nothing but pod school. I just never met them. You don't have to believe it, but don't extrapolate anything else with your imagination. This bit of drivel is amusing - "The OP is obviously projecting his own personal regrets and feelings of inadequacy onto the entire profession." Is this culled from your psychiatry training? Tell me where to send the check.

As far as the worn out topic on whether or not MD's or DO's can treat anything that walks in the door, why are you disagreeing with me? I stated exactly what you're stating. You have the LEGAL right to do anything you want, but you'd be an IDIOT to diagnose/treat anyone that falls out of your scope of understanding. Was this really necessary? - "If you were really an osteo student, you would know that your statement is not based on fact." What statement are you talking about? The statement in your mind that reflects the exact opposite of what I said about scope of practice and legal ramifications? If you want to engage in an intelligent debate, please get your facts together.

What is this supposed to mean, Frasier? "If you are a DPM who truly felt as though you made the wrong career move, that says more about you than it does others who decided to stick with it." Your medical acumen is truly stunning. This statement led to even more fantasy on your part as to me switching career goals as the wind blows. Terrific analysis. I hope you learned to take a slightly lengthier history in med school before you arrive at assessments for your patients.

"If you never wanted to be a podiatrist, why would have you have wasted four years of your life plus all of that money? Why steal someone's place who may have really wanted to be a podiatrist? What does that say about you?" Gee, I don't know. You've pegged me like a pro so far. Does this mean I'm a sadistic, necrophiliac? Or, maybe I'm a borderline personality who needs urgent meds. What it really says, for your edification, is that I failed to get into DO school when I first applied and took podiatry school as a 2nd choice. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the 1st person to do this. I am certainly among a very few who had the cojones to admit it and do something about it. Call me crazy, but I would think this could be seen as somewhat admirable rather than evil.

Good Luck

 

[Osteodog]

ProZackMI and jonwill,

Excellent points.

Osteodog,

jonwill's posting acknowledged that DPMs of your era have a right to be upset about the podiatric profession. I agree, wholeheartedly. I know you said you wanted to know why anyone choose DPM over MD/DO. I have done just that. I don't want to be an MD, though I am extremely competitive for some of the good MD programs in the country. I know I want a surgical sub-specialty with a medical aspect, so I don't have to do surgery all day long. I have a significant background in the health sciences and biomedical sciences and know exactly what I want.

I had my reservations about podiatry until I thoroughly examined the updated curriculum of several colleges of podiatric medicine. A lot has changed in terms of legislation and public deference in the realm of podiatric medicine since you were in school. This might be difficult to believe with how little time has passed (eg - less than 10 years) but it is absolutely true. I would not be interested in the podiatry that was offered to your generation. However, I have investigated podiatry thoroughly and have asked literally over a hundred people about their views of podiatrists. Most were healthcare practitioners. I received about 3 negative responses (all from older healthcare practitioners), over 95 responses indicating that these people didn't even know the podiatrist holds a DPM and not an MD. The remaining responses have received excellent podiatric care (or someone in their family). I was overwhelmed at the positive responses. All of these points I took into consideration. This is why I have chosen the DPM over the MD.

AZPOD Rocks

Excellent, AZPOD! If we only could have started with your post, I think the flaming could have been avoided. Your information is a revelation to me and I'm extremely happy to hear it.

Good Luck

 

[scpod]

There was no assumption with my initial post. Only a question. Why would someone want to go to podiatry school if they had the opportunity to go to MD/DO school. Seems fairly straightforward to me.

It would seem staightforward, except for the fact that you mentioned you had heard people claim that they could have gone MD/DO, but chose DPM instead. The insinuation is that you don't believe them. Whether or not you intended it, it sounds that way. You were, more or less, asking those people to prove to you that they were telling the truth. That does sound awfully insulting, wouldn't you agree?

 

[capo]

For our esteemed MD -

There was no assumption with my initial post. Only a question. Why would someone want to go to podiatry school if they had the opportunity to go to MD/DO school. Seems fairly straightforward to me. And, throwing in things like dentistry, vets, psychologists, etc. is really taking some poetic license. Where did I mention any of those? Where did I say that podiatry was an inferior profession. Where did I assume that no DPM wanted to go to pod school? Did I say somewhere that all DO's and MD's are happy with their professions and would not want to do anything else in their lives?? C'mon, friend. I only pointed out my own personal experiences. I never did hear from one person in my class that pod school was their 1st choice. I did hear from a significantly large number of people that they preferred MD or DO school. I didn't speak to every single person in my class on this topic, so there likely was a good number of people who thought pod school and nothing but pod school. I just never met them. You don't have to believe it, but don't extrapolate anything else with your imagination. This bit of drivel is amusing - "The OP is obviously projecting his own personal regrets and feelings of inadequacy onto the entire profession." Is this culled from your psychiatry training? Tell me where to send the check.

As far as the worn out topic on whether or not MD's or DO's can treat anything that walks in the door, why are you disagreeing with me? I stated exactly what you're stating. You have the LEGAL right to do anything you want, but you'd be an IDIOT to diagnose/treat anyone that falls out of your scope of understanding. Was this really necessary? - "If you were really an osteo student, you would know that your statement is not based on fact." What statement are you talking about? The statement in your mind that reflects the exact opposite of what I said about scope of practice and legal ramifications? If you want to engage in an intelligent debate, please get your facts together.

What is this supposed to mean, Frasier? "If you are a DPM who truly felt as though you made the wrong career move, that says more about you than it does others who decided to stick with it." Your medical acumen is truly stunning. This statement led to even more fantasy on your part as to me switching career goals as the wind blows. Terrific analysis. I hope you learned to take a slightly lengthier history in med school before you arrive at assessments for your patients.

"If you never wanted to be a podiatrist, why would have you have wasted four years of your life plus all of that money? Why steal someone's place who may have really wanted to be a podiatrist? What does that say about you?" Gee, I don't know. You've pegged me like a pro so far. Does this mean I'm a sadistic, necrophiliac? Or, maybe I'm a borderline personality who needs urgent meds. What it really says, for your edification, is that I failed to get into DO school when I first applied and took podiatry school as a 2nd choice. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the 1st person to do this. I am certainly among a very few who had the cojones to admit it and do something about it. Call me crazy, but I would think this could be seen as somewhat admirable rather than evil.

Good Luck

First of all I don't want to make any statement in the interrogative, because I don't want to invite a reply. But I will suggest that you change your meds and get off the thread.

Seriously though, why don't you survey your classmates in DO school and see how MANY of them are MD-wannabes? I'm sure that's a common theme around DO schools as well.

I'm sure this debate could go on forever. But it's true, that in ANY profession you will have disgruntled employees. Do what YOU have a passion to do -- not what society or someone else TELLS you, you SHOULD do.

 

[ProZackMI]

For our esteemed MD -

There was no assumption with my initial post. Only a question. Why would someone want to go to podiatry school if they had the opportunity to go to MD/DO school. Seems fairly straightforward to me. And, throwing in things like dentistry, vets, psychologists, etc. is really taking some poetic license. Where did I mention any of those? Where did I say that podiatry was an inferior profession. Where did I assume that no DPM wanted to go to pod school? Did I say somewhere that all DO's and MD's are happy with their professions and would not want to do anything else in their lives?? C'mon, friend. I only pointed out my own personal experiences. I never did hear from one person in my class that pod school was their 1st choice. I did hear from a significantly large number of people that they preferred MD or DO school. I didn't speak to every single person in my class on this topic, so there likely was a good number of people who thought pod school and nothing but pod school. I just never met them. You don't have to believe it, but don't extrapolate anything else with your imagination. This bit of drivel is amusing - "The OP is obviously projecting his own personal regrets and feelings of inadequacy onto the entire profession." Is this culled from your psychiatry training? Tell me where to send the check.

As far as the worn out topic on whether or not MD's or DO's can treat anything that walks in the door, why are you disagreeing with me? I stated exactly what you're stating. You have the LEGAL right to do anything you want, but you'd be an IDIOT to diagnose/treat anyone that falls out of your scope of understanding. Was this really necessary? - "If you were really an osteo student, you would know that your statement is not based on fact." What statement are you talking about? The statement in your mind that reflects the exact opposite of what I said about scope of practice and legal ramifications? If you want to engage in an intelligent debate, please get your facts together.

What is this supposed to mean, Frasier? "If you are a DPM who truly felt as though you made the wrong career move, that says more about you than it does others who decided to stick with it." Your medical acumen is truly stunning. This statement led to even more fantasy on your part as to me switching career goals as the wind blows. Terrific analysis. I hope you learned to take a slightly lengthier history in med school before you arrive at assessments for your patients.

"If you never wanted to be a podiatrist, why would have you have wasted four years of your life plus all of that money? Why steal someone's place who may have really wanted to be a podiatrist? What does that say about you?" Gee, I don't know. You've pegged me like a pro so far. Does this mean I'm a sadistic, necrophiliac? Or, maybe I'm a borderline personality who needs urgent meds. What it really says, for your edification, is that I failed to get into DO school when I first applied and took podiatry school as a 2nd choice. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the 1st person to do this. I am certainly among a very few who had the cojones to admit it and do something about it. Call me crazy, but I would think this could be seen as somewhat admirable rather than evil.

Good Luck

Thank you for the ad hominem attacks, Osteodog. Your razor-sharp dissection of my clinical skills was refreshing and amusing. First off, I don't think you're the proverbial attention-seeking troll in the true sense of the word. In other words, I don't think you came here to bash podiatry. However, I honestly believe you asked this question for the sole purpose of causing controversy and to receive the attention that it invokes.

Think about your question for a minute, Osteodog. What are you asking the reader to divulge? What specific information are you seeking? You are NOT asking podiatric students and practicing podiatrists why they chose the profession of podiatry. Rather, you ARE asking podiatric medical students and podiatrists why they didn't go to medical school! Think about that for a minute. It's kinda like this. John, MD sits down next to BOB, DPM at the lunch table. "So, Bob, why the hell did you decide to play with feet and not become a REAL doctor? I'm just curious and don't mean any offense!"

The very nature of your question presupposes that allo/osteo med is the penultimate medical profession and any other health care profession, podiatry specifically, (and I used clinical psychology, pharmacy, vet med, optometry, and dentistry as other examples to illustrate my point) is somehow inferior. Read your original post. You created a syllogism of sorts, Osteodog. Your logic goes something like this:

Premise A: I (Osteodog) wanted to be a medical doctor.
Premise B: I (Osteodog), however, did not possess the grades to enter medical school.
Premise C: However, I was accepted to pod school with my inferior grades.
Premise D: I attended pod school even though I wanted to be a medical doctor.
Subconclusion: Since I (Osteodog) wanted to be a medical doctor, but could not get into medical school due to bad grades, but was able to get into podiatry school, other podiatric students most likely wanted to be physicians, but could not get into medical school.

CONCLUSION: Therefore, ALL podiatry students (podiatrists) are people who could not get into medical school and who really wanted to be physicians.

Your question creates this inferred syllogism, does it not? Why did I bring in the vets, psychologists, dentists, etc.? As a psychiatrist, I've heard psychiatrists tell undergrad students who mention they are going to be starting a PhD/PsyD program "Why would you want to be a psychologist when you could be a psychiatrist?" My girlfriend is a clinical pharmacist with a PharmD/MPH and she's told that me that when she was in pharmacy school, many people, especially her parents' friends, were surprised pharm school was a doctorate and she often heard "All that school to be a pill counter and script filler, why not go to medical school?" My sister is a dentist, and she's told me comments that people have made like "Couldn't get into med school, eh?"

Among the lay population as well as among health care professionals, there is a disturbingly pervasive sentiment that MD/DO is the top of the food chain and anything else, be it DPM, PhD, PharmD, DVM, OD, DDS, DC (well, okay, this one truly is), DPT, AuD, etc., is less. To make matters worse, not only are these other professions considered "inferior" by many, but appended to that patently false misperception is the idea that all these health care professionals are MD/DO flunkees who couldn't "hack it" in medical school, or worse, couldn't get into medical school.

Go back to your question. Doesn't it feed upon the aforementioned?

Now, as for your specific educational path. Many people have gone to pharmacy school, dental school, podiatry school, vet school, chiro school, optometry school, graduate school, and even nursing school only to later attend medical school. Having a DVM, DPM, OD, or PharmD is a nice stepping stone to get an MD, but it's really overkill, isn't it? I mean, if you didn't want to be a pod, why do it? Why not just go back and get a master's in biomed sciences and fix your grades? Using myself as an example, as an undergrad, I majored in political science and government at UMich. After graduation, I decided to go to medical school, but had no science prereqs, although my GPA was excellent. I attended a post-bac biomed master's program, did exceptionally well, and did well on the MCAT and got into a good (not the best, but good) MD program. You could have done some grade-boosting grad work without having gone through the trouble and time of earning a DPM! You have your reasons and I'm sure you're doing what you think is best, but it's arrogant presumption for you to assume others share your sentiments or that your anecdotal evidence, based on the biased testimony of many fellow pod classmates and chums, is a basis to conclude that choosing pod over allo/osteo med is somehow an anomolous career decision.

 

[IlizaRob]

Thank you for the ad hominem attacks, Osteodog. Your razor-sharp dissection of my clinical skills was refreshing and amusing. First off, I don't think you're the proverbial attention-seeking troll in the true sense of the word. In other words, I don't think you came here to bash podiatry. However, I honestly believe you asked this question for the sole purpose of causing controversy and to receive the attention that it invokes.

Think about your question for a minute, Osteodog. What are you asking the reader to divulge? What specific information are you seeking? You are NOT asking podiatric students and practicing podiatrists why they chose the profession of podiatry. Rather, you ARE asking podiatric medical students and podiatrists why they didn't go to medical school! Think about that for a minute. It's kinda like this. John, MD sits down next to BOB, DPM at the lunch table. "So, Bob, why the hell did you decide to play with feet and not become a REAL doctor? I'm just curious and don't mean any offense!"

The very nature of your question presupposes that allo/osteo med is the penultimate medical profession and any other health care profession, podiatry specifically, (and I used clinical psychology, pharmacy, vet med, optometry, and dentistry as other examples to illustrate my point) is somehow inferior. Read your original post. You created a syllogism of sorts, Osteodog. Your logic goes something like this:

Premise A: I (Osteodog) wanted to be a medical doctor.
Premise B: I (Osteodog), however, did not possess the grades to enter medical school.
Premise C: However, I was accepted to pod school with my inferior grades.
Premise D: I attended pod school even though I wanted to be a medical doctor.
Subconclusion: Since I (Osteodog) wanted to be a medical doctor, but could not get into medical school due to bad grades, but was able to get into podiatry school, other podiatric students most likely wanted to be physicians, but could not get into medical school.

CONCLUSION: Therefore, ALL podiatry students (podiatrists) are people who could not get into medical school and who really wanted to be physicians.

Your question creates this inferred syllogism, does it not? Why did I bring in the vets, psychologists, dentists, etc.? As a psychiatrist, I've heard psychiatrists tell undergrad students who mention they are going to be starting a PhD/PsyD program "Why would you want to be a psychologist when you could be a psychiatrist?" My girlfriend is a clinical pharmacist with a PharmD/MPH and she's told that me that when she was in pharmacy school, many people, especially her parents' friends, were surprised pharm school was a doctorate and she often heard "All that school to be a pill counter and script filler, why not go to medical school?" My sister is a dentist, and she's told me comments that people have made like "Couldn't get into med school, eh?"

Among the lay population as well as among health care professionals, there is a disturbingly pervasive sentiment that MD/DO is the top of the food chain and anything else, be it DPM, PhD, PharmD, DVM, OD, DDS, DC (well, okay, this one truly is), DPT, AuD, etc., is less. To make matters worse, not only are these other professions considered "inferior" by many, but appended to that patently false misperception is the idea that all these health care professionals are MD/DO flunkees who couldn't "hack it" in medical school, or worse, couldn't get into medical school.

Go back to your question. Doesn't it feed upon the aforementioned?

Now, as for your specific educational path. Many people have gone to pharmacy school, dental school, podiatry school, vet school, chiro school, optometry school, graduate school, and even nursing school only to letter attend medical school. Having a DVM, DPM, OD, or PharmD is a nice stepping stone to get an MD, but it's really overkill, isn't it? I mean, if you didn't want to be a pod, why do it? Why not just go back and get a master's in biomed sciences and fix your grades? You have your reasons and I'm sure you're doing what you think is best, but it's arrogant presumption for you to assume others share your sentiments or that your anecdotal evidence, based on the biased testimony of many fellow pod classmates and chums, is a basis to conclude that choosing pod over allo/osteo med is somehow an anomolous career decision.

Wow. That post would have definitely received an A in my logics class in college. You hit it right on the nose. Well done.

 

[doctor-wanabe]

Doc-wannabe, jonwill is a DPM not a DO student, first of all. Are you referring to him BEING the DO? He gave a good post with pods being his interest and qualifying the profession. Are you saying he is a DO student?

Osteodoc is the third year DO student. Your post quotes and replies to jonwill, except jonwill IS NOT a DO student -- but rather THE DPM student.

So reading your post, it makes no sense telling him not to sound haughty. He isn't sounding haughty.

Sorry, I meant Osteodog was being haughty. Thanks for the notice!

 

[doctor-wanabe]

Thank you, Jonwill for toning down the rhetoric.

I am truly happy to hear that the educational process and the residency situation has improved. I agree that I shouldn't be assuming things since much has likely changed since my time. Maybe if I were a pod student today I wouldn't feel the urge to jump ship and be a DO.

My education and training was fairly abysmal so I guess I'm coming from a totally different perspective. My 3rd and 4th years were so slipshod and inconsistent, I thought that somehow my actual residency would bail me out. No such luck. You were very fortunate to get a 2 year surgical when I applied and, even if you had good grades and were well liked (me, believe it or not) you were still more likely to get a one year PPMR or RPR. I got the former at USC (which no longer exists - the pod residency) and got a total of 5 months of actual pod training along with 7 months of hospital training. All of that with a 10k stipend for the year. I had to wait tables on my days off just to live. For me, that was the final straw for podiatry. I knew that I was going to get out when I could, but I thought I had to try and make some money before I quit altogether. I found a Medi-Medi mill in Los Angeles that was not entirely on the up and up, but paid relatively well. I stomached that for 3 years and then got accepted to DO school.

Why do you think the application pool is so small? If you're saying 700 applicants and 467 accepted, that still means that, on the average, each school could only support something like 88 students. And, that's if every single applicant is accepted! The classes in the mid-90's all had student populations well over 100. If I remember correctly, the overall applicant pool was several thousand. That's mind boggling to me. Is the profession in danger of disappearing? The interest has clearly waned since my time.

I think we're differing semantically on the issue of a DO/MD being able to treat anything that walks in the door. LEGALLY, they can, but if the condition is beyond their training, they would be advised not to proceed. But there's nothing preventing an FP from doing an appendectomy if they feel that they've had sufficient training. That's a fact. There is plenty of precedent for it. A podiatrist cannot treat anything above the knee. You can prescribe an anticoagulant, but it has to be for the lower extremity. That's the only point I was trying to make. A DO/MD has the medical training to treat anything that walks into the door, but in these medico-legal days, they would be an idiot to try something out just because they have the license.

These pods are yelling at you because you're generalize the entire profession as "bad." I don't think it's bad because podiatrist play their roll in the medical profession too. I'm a junior at the University of Washington and I've looked at podiatry as an important part of medicine. My dad broke his foot a few months ago and it was a podiatrist that fixed it up. The podiatrist did a great job and I respect him. You know, people still need to walk and take care of their feet, but when you say "there's nothing preventing an FP from doing an appendectomy" it just sounds like you're pegging the MD/DO profession as godly. The reality is that we're all one big team to help patients lead a rich and fullfilled life. A doctor is a doctor, even if he does a specialty early on. Also, your anecdote about the 10,000 dollars/year stipend does sound discouraging and I can see why you're so angry over pod school from 7 years ago. Nowadays, there are pod schools that have merged with the MD/DO school as well: School, AZPOD, Temple... But, still, if you think going the MD/DO route is for you then I wish you the best of luck. Cheers!

 

[doclm]

Thank you for the ad hominem attacks, Osteodog. Your razor-sharp dissection of my clinical skills was refreshing and amusing. First off, I don't think you're the proverbial attention-seeking troll in the true sense of the word. In other words, I don't think you came here to bash podiatry. However, I honestly believe you asked this question for the sole purpose of causing controversy and to receive the attention that it invokes.

Think about your question for a minute, Osteodog. What are you asking the reader to divulge? What specific information are you seeking? You are NOT asking podiatric students and practicing podiatrists why they chose the profession of podiatry. Rather, you ARE asking podiatric medical students and podiatrists why they didn't go to medical school! Think about that for a minute. It's kinda like this. John, MD sits down next to BOB, DPM at the lunch table. "So, Bob, why the hell did you decide to play with feet and not become a REAL doctor? I'm just curious and don't mean any offense!"

The very nature of your question presupposes that allo/osteo med is the penultimate medical profession and any other health care profession, podiatry specifically, (and I used clinical psychology, pharmacy, vet med, optometry, and dentistry as other examples to illustrate my point) is somehow inferior. Read your original post. You created a syllogism of sorts, Osteodog. Your logic goes something like this:

Premise A: I (Osteodog) wanted to be a medical doctor.
Premise B: I (Osteodog), however, did not possess the grades to enter medical school.
Premise C: However, I was accepted to pod school with my inferior grades.
Premise D: I attended pod school even though I wanted to be a medical doctor.
Subconclusion: Since I (Osteodog) wanted to be a medical doctor, but could not get into medical school due to bad grades, but was able to get into podiatry school, other podiatric students most likely wanted to be physicians, but could not get into medical school.

CONCLUSION: Therefore, ALL podiatry students (podiatrists) are people who could not get into medical school and who really wanted to be physicians.

Your question creates this inferred syllogism, does it not? Why did I bring in the vets, psychologists, dentists, etc.? As a psychiatrist, I've heard psychiatrists tell undergrad students who mention they are going to be starting a PhD/PsyD program "Why would you want to be a psychologist when you could be a psychiatrist?" My girlfriend is a clinical pharmacist with a PharmD/MPH and she's told that me that when she was in pharmacy school, many people, especially her parents' friends, were surprised pharm school was a doctorate and she often heard "All that school to be a pill counter and script filler, why not go to medical school?" My sister is a dentist, and she's told me comments that people have made like "Couldn't get into med school, eh?"

Among the lay population as well as among health care professionals, there is a disturbingly pervasive sentiment that MD/DO is the top of the food chain and anything else, be it DPM, PhD, PharmD, DVM, OD, DDS, DC (well, okay, this one truly is), DPT, AuD, etc., is less. To make matters worse, not only are these other professions considered "inferior" by many, but appended to that patently false misperception is the idea that all these health care professionals are MD/DO flunkees who couldn't "hack it" in medical school, or worse, couldn't get into medical school.

Go back to your question. Doesn't it feed upon the aforementioned?

Now, as for your specific educational path. Many people have gone to pharmacy school, dental school, podiatry school, vet school, chiro school, optometry school, graduate school, and even nursing school only to later attend medical school. Having a DVM, DPM, OD, or PharmD is a nice stepping stone to get an MD, but it's really overkill, isn't it? I mean, if you didn't want to be a pod, why do it? Why not just go back and get a master's in biomed sciences and fix your grades? Using myself as an example, as an undergrad, I majored in political science and government at UMich. After graduation, I decided to go to medical school, but had no science prereqs, although my GPA was excellent. I attended a post-bac biomed master's program, did exceptionally well, and did well on the MCAT and got into a good (not the best, but good) MD program. You could have done some grade-boosting grad work without having gone through the trouble and time of earning a DPM! You have your reasons and I'm sure you're doing what you think is best, but it's arrogant presumption for you to assume others share your sentiments or that your anecdotal evidence, based on the biased testimony of many fellow pod classmates and chums, is a basis to conclude that choosing pod over allo/osteo med is somehow an anomolous career decision.

WOW
You must of rocked your verbal reasoning section of the MCAT.

 

[JMAT]

im gonna get my DPM and start a private cosmetic foot clinic for the rich and famous. any body want in? cosmetic surgery on feet. brilliant!

 

[doctor-wanabe]

Thank you for the ad hominem attacks, Osteodog. Your razor-sharp dissection of my clinical skills was refreshing and amusing. First off, I don't think you're the proverbial attention-seeking troll in the true sense of the word. In other words, I don't think you came here to bash podiatry. However, I honestly believe you asked this question for the sole purpose of causing controversy and to receive the attention that it invokes.

Think about your question for a minute, Osteodog. What are you asking the reader to divulge? What specific information are you seeking? You are NOT asking podiatric students and practicing podiatrists why they chose the profession of podiatry. Rather, you ARE asking podiatric medical students and podiatrists why they didn't go to medical school! Think about that for a minute. It's kinda like this. John, MD sits down next to BOB, DPM at the lunch table. "So, Bob, why the hell did you decide to play with feet and not become a REAL doctor? I'm just curious and don't mean any offense!"

The very nature of your question presupposes that allo/osteo med is the penultimate medical profession and any other health care profession, podiatry specifically, (and I used clinical psychology, pharmacy, vet med, optometry, and dentistry as other examples to illustrate my point) is somehow inferior. Read your original post. You created a syllogism of sorts, Osteodog. Your logic goes something like this:

Premise A: I (Osteodog) wanted to be a medical doctor.
Premise B: I (Osteodog), however, did not possess the grades to enter medical school.
Premise C: However, I was accepted to pod school with my inferior grades.
Premise D: I attended pod school even though I wanted to be a medical doctor.
Subconclusion: Since I (Osteodog) wanted to be a medical doctor, but could not get into medical school due to bad grades, but was able to get into podiatry school, other podiatric students most likely wanted to be physicians, but could not get into medical school.

CONCLUSION: Therefore, ALL podiatry students (podiatrists) are people who could not get into medical school and who really wanted to be physicians.

Your question creates this inferred syllogism, does it not? Why did I bring in the vets, psychologists, dentists, etc.? As a psychiatrist, I've heard psychiatrists tell undergrad students who mention they are going to be starting a PhD/PsyD program "Why would you want to be a psychologist when you could be a psychiatrist?" My girlfriend is a clinical pharmacist with a PharmD/MPH and she's told that me that when she was in pharmacy school, many people, especially her parents' friends, were surprised pharm school was a doctorate and she often heard "All that school to be a pill counter and script filler, why not go to medical school?" My sister is a dentist, and she's told me comments that people have made like "Couldn't get into med school, eh?"

Among the lay population as well as among health care professionals, there is a disturbingly pervasive sentiment that MD/DO is the top of the food chain and anything else, be it DPM, PhD, PharmD, DVM, OD, DDS, DC (well, okay, this one truly is), DPT, AuD, etc., is less. To make matters worse, not only are these other professions considered "inferior" by many, but appended to that patently false misperception is the idea that all these health care professionals are MD/DO flunkees who couldn't "hack it" in medical school, or worse, couldn't get into medical school.

Go back to your question. Doesn't it feed upon the aforementioned?

Now, as for your specific educational path. Many people have gone to pharmacy school, dental school, podiatry school, vet school, chiro school, optometry school, graduate school, and even nursing school only to later attend medical school. Having a DVM, DPM, OD, or PharmD is a nice stepping stone to get an MD, but it's really overkill, isn't it? I mean, if you didn't want to be a pod, why do it? Why not just go back and get a master's in biomed sciences and fix your grades? Using myself as an example, as an undergrad, I majored in political science and government at UMich. After graduation, I decided to go to medical school, but had no science prereqs, although my GPA was excellent. I attended a post-bac biomed master's program, did exceptionally well, and did well on the MCAT and got into a good (not the best, but good) MD program. You could have done some grade-boosting grad work without having gone through the trouble and time of earning a DPM! You have your reasons and I'm sure you're doing what you think is best, but it's arrogant presumption for you to assume others share your sentiments or that your anecdotal evidence, based on the biased testimony of many fellow pod classmates and chums, is a basis to conclude that choosing pod over allo/osteo med is somehow an anomolous career decision.

Way to go, why aren't you a lawyer?

 

[capo]

Just a point of note around here. Why are so many anti-DPM's (or better put those uninterested in podiatry -- either becuase of past experiences or just no experience with the field) on this particular forum, wasting space and time arguing points they have no real interest in?? (Not you ProZack, you seem like a fair and good man )

It seems to me with all there is to do in the world, and medicine specifically, isn't there enough to do to perfect your craft? Why waste valuable study or whatever time, wasting it on a forum/profession you have no ties too? Just wondering what the lure was.

 

[box29]

Osteodog is a DPM who is now in medical school...

 

[Dr_Who]

Hmmm... So, MDs/DOs can treat anything. Can they treat dental disease? (of course they can't, what I actually meant is: are they allowed by law to treat dental disease?) And if they are not, should they rush to their nearest Dental School and get a DDS/DMD before they are 'the doctors of the whole body'?

 

[ProZackMI]

WOW
You must of rocked your verbal reasoning section of the MCAT.

Yep...words are my strong point. Thanks!

 

[ProZackMI]

Way to go, why aren't you a lawyer?

Hopefully, in two weeks, I will be!