why is it so hard to get into dermatology?

[VisionaryTics]

What your point?

The orthopods could make the passing score easier for their oral exams and have a 95% pass rate. It belies to your earlier point that the derm boards are so difficult

Ditto with ENT. About an 85-90% combined oral/written boards pass rate.

But then again, it's probably lower than derm because ENT's applicants boards scores aren't as high, so ENT docs aren't as smart as dermatologists.

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[DermViser]

Ditto with ENT. About an 85-90% combined oral/written boards pass rate.

But then again, it's probably lower than derm because ENT's applicants boards scores aren't as high, so ENT docs aren't as smart as dermatologists.

The failure rate has been anywhere from 4.5% to 10% depending on the year, in the past few years.

 

[blizzah]

Ditto with ENT. About an 85-90% combined oral/written boards pass rate.

But then again, it's probably lower than derm because ENT's applicants boards scores aren't as high, so ENT docs aren't as smart as dermatologists.

No. Average ENT board score is most definitely higher than derm.

 

[DermViser]

No. Average ENT board score is most definitely higher than derm.

Derm = 244, ENT = 243
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

That being said, hardly a difference between the two if you're extrapolating USMLE Step 1 score to "smarts", which is iffy in and of itself.

 

[FIREitUP]

Derm = 244, ENT = 243
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

That being said, hardly a difference between the two if you're extrapolating USMLE Step 1 score to "smarts", which is iffy in and of itself.

ENT is was 244 and Derm is 241 as per AAMC careers in medicine in 2013.

 

[username456789]

ENT is was 244 and Derm is 241 as per AAMC careers in medicine in 2013.

****, if that **** drops below 240 I'm gonna have no choice but to switch residencies. RadOnc here I come!

 

[WaylonS]

I haven't looked at the pdf but 95%? Is that not kind of low for a group of pre-selected overachievers?

Jesus tap-dancing Christ, y'all are all being ridiculous, seriously

ENT is was 244 and Derm is 241 as per AAMC careers in medicine in 2013.

There is a sticky in the derm forum where I commented on this. Basically, the applicant numbers in the AAMC data do not add up, so I'm not sure how believable they are.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

There is a sticky in the derm forum where I commented on this. Basically, the applicant numbers in the AAMC data do not add up, so I'm not sure how believable they are.

I just can't imagine why anyone would care. I keep a mental note of what ballpark the average step I score is for my field only so that I can give reasonable accurate advice to our medical students. I could care less if it fluctuated a bit from year to year, or if God forbid another discipline had a higher average. This is Epeen measuring at its finest.

 

[siliso]

Derm is boring as ****. No sour grapes, I had the creds to get into whatever. It's only so many rashes you can out steroids on or aks you can freeze off and put efudex on. Even the "surgeries" are as boring as hell, I guess if your happiness doing surgery is limited to elliptical excisions of benign cysts and curettage/bovieage of skin lesions, but don't kid yourself you're doing some real complex surgery. If you've got the brains and talent to get into derm, there's probably some real field of medicine that can use you better and there will still be plenty of gunners who are actually excited about derm (maybe, or whatever their motivation is). There's no lack of talented people who want to do derm. Think about doing something else equally or more useful with your skills.

 

[username456789]

Derm is boring as ****. No sour grapes, I had the creds to get into whatever. It's only so many rashes you can out steroids on or aks you can freeze off and put efudex on. Even the "surgeries" are as boring as hell, I guess if your happiness doing surgery is limited to elliptical excisions of benign cysts and curettage/bovieage of skin lesions, but don't kid yourself you're doing some real complex surgery. If you've got the brains and talent to get into derm, there's probably some real field of medicine that can use you better and there will still be plenty of gunners who are actually excited about derm (maybe, or whatever their motivation is). There's no lack of talented people who want to do derm. Think about doing something else equally or more useful with your skills.

It's fascinating how hilariously and unnecessarily riled up people get when it comes to Dermatology. You never get to see kids inexplicably fly off the handle when it comes to Pathology or Family Medicine.

While we're on the topic of unsolicited soliloquies of dissatisfaction, I ****ing can't stand people who name their kids anything that rhymes with "Aiden" (Jayden/Kayden/Brayden/Hayden). Also, I can't understand why anyone would eat scrapple.

 

[DermMatch]

I eat scrapple.

You're right, derm is as boring as hell.

 

[DermViser]

Derm is boring as ****. No sour grapes, I had the creds to get into whatever. It's only so many rashes you can out steroids on or aks you can freeze off and put efudex on. Even the "surgeries" are as boring as hell, I guess if your happiness doing surgery is limited to elliptical excisions of benign cysts and curettage/bovieage of skin lesions, but don't kid yourself you're doing some real complex surgery. If you've got the brains and talent to get into derm, there's probably some real field of medicine that can use you better and there will still be plenty of gunners who are actually excited about derm (maybe, or whatever their motivation is). There's no lack of talented people who want to do derm. Think about doing something else equally or more useful with your skills.

o out of 10 for that performance.

You're absolutely right, the people who get into Derm don't like the intellectual content and visual nature of that field whatsoever, and don't want to in any way contribute to the field.

Hope that wine tastes good from those sour grapes. Creds are more than just med school transcript and board scores.

 

[VisionaryTics]

Why wouldn't anyone eat scrapple? I would eat it everyday if it weren't going to kill me.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Derm is boring as ****. No sour grapes, I had the creds to get into whatever. It's only so many rashes you can out steroids on or aks you can freeze off and put efudex on. Even the "surgeries" are as boring as hell, I guess if your happiness doing surgery is limited to elliptical excisions of benign cysts and curettage/bovieage of skin lesions, but don't kid yourself you're doing some real complex surgery. If you've got the brains and talent to get into derm, there's probably some real field of medicine that can use you better and there will still be plenty of gunners who are actually excited about derm (maybe, or whatever their motivation is). There's no lack of talented people who want to do derm. Think about doing something else equally or more useful with your skills.

I remember when I was an MS1.

 

[Nasrudin]

Derm is both interesting and useful. Particularly to those with a dermatological problem. For whom you might ask yourself who would be more useful. And the broad background required to be able to correlate skin manifestation to other disease processes is not unlike Radiology in that respect.

As to the shaming of others for not having purer intent in medicine.... That's just arming potential manipulators with weapons against yourself.

 

[Reckoner]

Honestly, if a schmuck like me can score higher than all but 8 of the 450 other Derm residents in his PGY class nationally

Dermigod

 

[Dral]

Again...

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(12)01036-1/abstract

But we should be doing something more important and relevant.

 

[@JackShephard]

Derm is boring as ****. No sour grapes, I had the creds to get into whatever. It's only so many rashes you can out steroids on or aks you can freeze off and put efudex on. Even the "surgeries" are as boring as hell, I guess if your happiness doing surgery is limited to elliptical excisions of benign cysts and curettage/bovieage of skin lesions, but don't kid yourself you're doing some real complex surgery. If you've got the brains and talent to get into derm, there's probably some real field of medicine that can use you better and there will still be plenty of gunners who are actually excited about derm (maybe, or whatever their motivation is). There's no lack of talented people who want to do derm. Think about doing something else equally or more useful with your skills.

The problem with this attitude is it's self-serving. What others are doing isn't important... what you do is more useful.

Wrong.

You only believe what you do because you're stuck in a small selfish world. I've yet to meet the dermatologist who thinks what they are doing isn't useful or real.

As you mature, or maybe when you're an old and passing away, you'll realize what you do isn't that important. There's a 99.9999% chance no one will know your name or what you did in 100 years. What's important is how you treat people and how you serve. This can be done in any profession, from the least prestigious to the most.

The best physicians I've worked with value the family med doc, IM doc, psychiatrist, neurosurgeon, orthopedic surgeon, plastic surgeon, and dermatologist equally.

 

[Substance]

Derm has a lot of haters because it is the best specialty in medicine. Good lifestyle, interesting subject matter, the most autonomy of all medical fields, and a pretty good paycheck. What's not to love?

I bet a ton of people in IM/FP/GS and even heavy hitters like PRS and rads regret their decision and wish they had pursued derm while they could have.

That being said, the rat race to get into derm is in my opinion harming it. Would you like most of your colleagues to be brown-nosing back-stabbing mommy-trackers? I know I wouldn't.

 

[@JackShephard]

Derm has a lot of haters because it is the best specialty in medicine.

Haha.

This is just as extreme as the hating, just in the opposite direction.

It's a great field, no doubt.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Derm has a lot of haters because it is the best specialty in medicine. Good lifestyle, interesting subject matter, the most autonomy of all medical fields, and a pretty good paycheck. What's not to love?

God bless em. I had some acne issues as a teen and my dermatologist was awesome. I went back to him ten years later to get a wart taken care of. He does the skin exams for my parents (and my dad grew up in the South in the days before sunscreen existed) - and has picked up a couple of skin cancers in each of them. He has literally a twenty year relationship with my family and my folks always update him on my progress in my own medical career when they see him.

It's a great field. If I had any personal interest in it I certainly would have considered it. I just hate it when people denigrate others' choices. One of the biggest gunners in my class was dumbfounded and openly questioning our class valedictorian's decision to go into neuro - openly deriding it as a "waste". People need to get off their high horses.

 

[Substance]

Haha.

This is just as extreme as the hating, just in the opposite direction.

It's a great field, no doubt.

I like to call it loving.

I am full of love for derm. Derm love. Dove.

 

[Clp321]

I just matched into dermatology this year after spending a year off doing research. The work we are doing in the lab was fundamental to understanding prinicpals of immunology that required us to collaborate with rheumatologists and oncologists. I'd hardly say a disease that only affects the skin has no relevance. This is the kind of dermatologist I intend to be, its not all about fridays off and collecting a paycheck, other than that the nature of the pateints doesn't require rigorous hours. Apparently some of you have never seen photophoresis or an erythrodermic CTCL patient or the entire cohort of blistering diseases. Not to mention during my MS4 rotations I can't begin to tell you how many attendings have told me what a great decision dermatology is. One of the PRS fellows told me he likes the content of MOHS more than plastics while rotating in the clinic. Its easy to look down off your high horse and denigrate a specialty you know nothing about. I mean we all know that Internal Medicine is more than managing blood pressures or Surgery is more than lap/appys. Its ironic for all the negativity I see about dermatology I have yet to her a dermatologist bad mouth another specialty for their ignorance or whatnot.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Its ironic for all the negativity I see about dermatology I have yet to her a dermatologist bad mouth another specialty for their ignorance or whatnot.

Then you clearly haven't read many of dermviser's posts...

 

[Clp321]

Then you clearly haven't read many of dermviser's posts...

I was mainly referring to the people at 3 derm departments I rotated at and the one I spent a year working in. Can't say I'm surprised though at your response, lots of @$%@ gets talked on here!

 

[DermViser]

Then you clearly haven't read many of dermviser's posts...

To be fair, I was talking about General IM that consults at a very high frequency, unlike say General Surgery. My point was consultation for the sake of consultation, and that was on a thread of the OP asking whether his experience with IM sucking so bad was true. Obviously most IM residents agree with me when a huge majority of IM residents subspecialize (at least with AMGs).