Why not medical school?

[Bell0509]

I am trying to find an answer as to what makes the PA profession so different from being a MD/DO.

If it is not about saving time in terms of education or practice, or about saving money on education, then what separates a Primary Care PA from a Primary Care MD.

I am aware of all the fine print that a PA is dependent on a MD/DO, and I know the duties a PA performs.

Basically, if you went to a PA school interview and they ask why do you want to be a PA instead of an MD, what would you say??

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[PAJenn]

personally what intrigued me were two things...i liked the fact tha PAs could jump from different areas of medicine whereas an MD has to specialize, I like the idea that we focus on patient education and history and physical taking skills and I also liked having a "fast track" into medicine. No part of my decision was based on money for school or my level of education or ability to get into med school. I really like what PAs were about, spending time with patients and educating them. Ive never been to med school but from what I have heard MDs arent focused on H&Ps and education as much as we(PAs) are. I dont know if it helps you much.

When I asked other people they liked the idea of not being fully responsible for a patient, some like not dealing with all the malpractice others like being able to consult an MD at any time and not having to rely soley on their knowledge...it depends on who you ask...

but in the interview I focused on educating the patient and being able to cover as many specialities as I Liked...for instance I want to be involved in womens health as well as emergency medicine and the PA field allows me to do so...

 

[12R34Y]

PAJenn,

It is unfortunate that I have been spending countless hours in our clinical skills class practicing H&P skills for the last 2 years on each other and on standardized patients while in medschool.

That is an awfully big and unnecessary generalization to say that MD's don't focus on H&P's and patient education and PA's do. You can't honestly believe that.

H&P's are the backbone of medicine regardless of how technology changes.

How will you be able to focus on patient education more than an EM doc if you are working in the same emergency department.......You paint the picture of sitting down with every patient in the ED and drawing them diagrams of their illness and because of the fact that you are a PA you will be able to educate them better?!

I mean no disrespect and usually don't write horrendously inflammatory responses to stuff, but i was just kind of shocked that you made that generalization.

later

 

[beatla19]

For me, it is mainly grades. I know many PA's do have the grades to get into med school, but I do not. I'll have a lot of patient care hours by the time I apply, so I think I'll be competitive at some PA schools. As an added bonus, I like having someone to consult with all the time(an MD/D0). I think it would make me more confident that what I am prescribing is the right thing.

 

[deleted6669]

sorry to break this to you but pa school admissions require a decent gpa too. see the ongoing thread on pa vs pharm school admissions on this forum.........

 

[beatla19]

EMEDPA, I understand you need a decent gpa for PA, just not as great as for med school. This is the case for the schools I'm looking at anyway. USC's PA program has an avg GPA of a 3.3. If USC's med school has that I would be shocked to say the least. Off Davis' website, one has to have a 2.7 to be considered "competitive." There's no way that's the case at DavisMed. I don't know if this is the case around the country. Do you have a national average for average entering gpa for PA school?

 

[deleted6669]

there is a big difference between having the minimum and getting in. I can guarantee that no one at davis has a gpa less than 3.2 and that guy probably was an rn for 10 yrs and has a masters in something too. I have worked on pa admission committees for > 10 yrs at several programs. at my pa program they get > 1000 applications for 30 spots. yes, many have low gpa's but the class entering avg every year looks like this:
age 27 +/- 2 yrs
prior b.s.
3-5 yrs health care experience at the rn/paramedic/resp. therapist level
overall gpa> 3.3 with many > 3.6

prereqs from their website:

Bachelor's degree
Minimum of 40 quarter hour or 30 semester hour credits of natural science coursework appropriate to health science majors
General biology with lab (full sequence)
General chemistry with lab (full sequence)
Microbiology with lab
Human anatomy and physiology with lab sequence completed within the past seven years (minimum of 1 semester each of anatomy and physiology or 2 semesters/3 quarters of a combined A & P course)
Upper division natural science course work which might include recommended 300 and 400 level courses in organic chemistry, biochemistry, genetics, pathophysiology, pharmacology, anatomy, physiology, etc.
General or developmental psychology
Statistics
Graduate Record Exam (GRE) - General Test official scores, taken within the past 5 years. Test needs to be taken on or before November 30, 2003, for 2004 admissions.
Health Care Experience - Minimum of one year in a responsible health care position with preference given to those with health care experience involving direct patient care. Please see additional explanation below.
Minimum cumulative overall undergraduate GPA of 2.8, to be competitive most applicants have gpa > 3.2



the big difference between applying to md and pa programs is the amt of experience required by pa programs. the prereqs now are fairly similar. yes, md's take the mcat which is a pain. most pa programs now require the gre. good luck whatever you decide.

 

[Freeeedom!]

STTTTOPPPP!

No sense in medical wars.

It is competetive in both fields, but one has to admit that attaining medical school admission straight from undergrad is QUITE and accomplishment...those are the really high GPA folks. The rest of us had the years of medical exposure under our belts to beef up our application...just like ANY PA would. At least 75% of my class were EMT's, para's, RN's, OTs RTs PTs PhD's, MPH's, MS somethings, and mix in a PA.

This type of medical war is no good. I can tell you that medical school admission and residency admission into my field of choice was the hardest thing I had ever done...outweighing any of my previous graduate school and PT accomplishments.

And as per previous discussion...I think we all realize that the PA's that are entering the field today are NOT the PA's of yester-year (yep I used that in a sentence), many have the "fast track to medicine" attitude that is detrimental to the Physician Assistant field.

 

[deleted6669]

as per previous discussion...I think we all realize that the PA's that are entering the field today are NOT the PA's of yester-year (yep I used that in a sentence), many have the "fast track to medicine" attitude that is detrimental to the Physician Assistant field.


COULDN'T AGREE MORE!
when/if I work at a pa program full time I will work on turning back the clock so that prereqs would be:

bs degree
rn/paramedic/resp therapist or similar career professional
3+ years doing above full time

NO EXCEPTIONS....

this would greatly cut down on the # of applicants and give a better pool from which to choose. I know I'm dreaming....there are still a few programs like this but they are rapidly being overtaken by programs with much less stringent standards

 

[Freeeedom!]

I tell ya my man...we agree often...I think you are turning toward the dark side...the D.O. side of the force. If you join, you learn the AT Still Handshake. Join the D.O. side...be an osteopath...EmedPa, it is futile to resist.

 

[deleted6669]

if I go to medschool at this point it will be D.O. or nothing...I made that decision a while ago.....too many gunners in the md world....I hate gunners......and broccoli......

 

[jeffdowjones]

gunners-???? please forgive my ignorance and educate an old fool...=)

 

[deleted6669]

GUNNER= ANAL RETENTIVE, ANTISOCIAL PRE-MD/MED STUDENT SCHMUCK!!!
(STEAL OLD TESTS FROM THE LIBRARY SO NO ONE ELSE CAN SEE THEM, WHINE ABOUT A 98% ON A TOUGH TEST,ETC

 

[jeffdowjones]

thanks emed-yeah, i can think of a few names for those types too-just can't mention them on this family-oriented forum...=)

 

[timerick]

Wow! I can't imagine someone like that getting in; being a team player is an absolute necessity for a PA; no one even remotely like that was accepted in my class.

Do medical schools not care about it so much?

 

[MrBob]

the original question as I read it was what's the difference in the professions.......


Pa's are here to work under the supervision of an MD or DO...not to replace them or compete with them. that's the bottom line...without MD's or DO's there are no PA's. That is not the same case for NP's however and that's an entirely different thread and topic.

if someone askes you why you wanna be a PA tell them...you must have decided something when you applied for admission to a PA program. If you wanna be a PA to work your way into medicine and maybe one day go to med school, tell, them....(they may not like that answer and if that's why you wanna be a PA, I really don't need you as a colleague, there are people who actually want to be PA's and we don't need to waste the slots for our programs on folks who don't want to do this job). If you want to go to PA school because NO ONE would accept you into their medical school then tell them.....(you probably don't need to be a PA then either).

Give your honest answer! you don't need my answer or PAC-DOC's answer or anyone elses. If one hasn't thought about why they wanna be somewhere, the probably don't need to be there.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by emedpa
when/if I work at a pa program full time I will work on turning back the clock so that prereqs would be:

bs degree
rn/paramedic/resp therapist or similar career professional
3+ years doing above full time

NO EXCEPTIONS....

this would greatly cut down on the # of applicants and give a better pool from which to choose. I know I'm dreaming....there are still a few programs like this but they are rapidly being overtaken by programs with much less stringent standards

Wishful thinking... PA schools (and ARNP programs) are a big money maker (almost as big as DO schools!), so it is unlikely that we can stop the # of PA programs that are starting, as well as decrease the class size. If Program A has more stringest requirements like you said (that we wish all programs had), then the applicants will just shuffle over to Ghetto program B and get their degree.

Q, DO

 

[deleted6669]

Q- I agree to some extent with your analysis. yes, they can go elsewhere, but when I review their cv I will choose the guy who went to duke, emory, or medex as a viable candidate to interview and roundfile the guys ap who went to no name community college. after the 1st job it doesn't really matter where you went to school but school rep is important for the 1st job