Will physicians be taxed out the a** if Bernie Sanders is president?

[Gandyy]

Depends on how you define legitimate. It really boils down to either taking the position for political gain, or a desire to punish gay people for being gay. It's basically "we know you're going to live as a couple and we can't legally do anything about that, but gosh darn it we can make it as difficult as possible for you."

But WHY would people want to do that? "For God!" Sheesh.

Live and Let Live.

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[el_duderino]

But WHY would people want to do that? "For God!" Sheesh.

Live and Let Live.

Ew, it's icky, I don't like it, so let's punish people who do it.

That's basically it.

 

[Gandyy]

What does a neurosurgeon know about running the country anyway?

He is the least qualified candidate IMHO

His experience may be low, but I bet a neurosurgeon can catch on pretty quick. In the first large GOP debate they were talking about how well he was handling himself for being a total rookie.

 

[Gandyy]

Ew, it's icky, I don't like it, so let's punish people who do it.

That's basically it.

Yep, humans can be so inconsiderate of others. Its disgusting.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

What does a neurosurgeon know about running the country anyway?

He is the least qualified candidate IMHO

we can disagree there lol

as a surgeon he's level headed, used to making important decisions

Also I felt at the gop debate the others were spouting nonsense but he actually answered the questions

 

[allantois]

we can disagree there lol

I can see how a case can be made for a senator/governor/business magnate, but somebody who was stuck at the hospital all his life?

 

[Gandyy]

we can disagree there lol

as a surgeon he's level headed, used to making important decisions

I dont agree with his views on gay marriage, but yea I mean hes a neurosurgeon. No one else on that stage can handle pressure like he can.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

I dont agree with his views on gay marriage, but yea I mean hes a neurosurgeon. No one else on that stage can handle pressure like he can.

he can't be singled out for that--every republican on that stage held the same views

 

[allantois]

I dont agree with his views on gay marriage, but yea I mean hes a neurosurgeon. No one else on that stage can handle pressure like he can.

Yea, right.

 

[Gandyy]

Yea, right.

What a crazy post.

How many candidates in either the GOP candidate list or the democratic party have actually been in the "situation room"?

These guys and gals are mostly governors, senators, and circus clowns in the case of Trump.


Edit: If the President was running for re-election, that would be a different story. Governors/Senators dont deal with that level of stress that your picture is depicting there.

 

[allantois]

What a crazy post.

How many candidates in either the GOP candidate list or the democratic party have actually been in the "situation room"?

These guys and gals are mostly governors, senators, and circus clowns in the case of Trump.


Edit: If the President was running for re-election, that would be a different story. Governors/Senators dont deal with that level of stress that your picture is depicting there.

At least 1, maybe 2.

Also, there has never been a president with no prior government experience.

 

[Gandyy]

At least 1, maybe 2.

Also, there has never been a president with no prior government experience.

Who? name them.

 

[allantois]

Who? name them.

Both on the picture.

 

[el_duderino]

No one in that picture was a participant at the Republican debate.

 

[allantois]

No one in that picture was a participant at the Republican debate.

No; unless you somehow link Bush to it.

 

[Gandyy]

No one in that picture was a participant at the Republican debate.

That was exactly my point.

I'm dumbfounded that allantois posted that picture to make this specific point.

 

[johnston9234]

I dont agree with his views on gay marriage, but yea I mean hes a neurosurgeon. No one else on that stage can handle pressure like he can.

Pretty sure any large scale business deal or the passage of an important piece of legislation is more high stakes than a surgery (depending on what you value a human life at).

 

[Gandyy]

Pretty sure any large scale business deal or the passage of an important piece of legislation is more high stakes than a surgery (depending on what you value a human life at).

passage of important legislation or a large scale business deal is more high stakes than someone's life and the effect that it has on their family?

......

 

[el_duderino]

That was exactly my point.

I'm dumbfounded that allantois posted that picture to make this specific point.

I believe allantois took "on the stage" a little more metaphorically; as in "on the national stage." The rest of the conversation was predictable.

 

[allantois]

passage of important legislation or a large scale business deal is more high stakes than someone's life and the effect that it has on their family?

......

Just because I want to be a surgeon, does not make me automatically glorify all surgeons. Senators at certain committees directly deal with human lives (in a way that is expected of a commander in chief), as do governors and Trump. The later two make decisions that can affect thousands of families in the most direct ways.

 

[Gandyy]

Just because I want to be a surgeon, does not make me automatically glorify all surgeons. Senators at certain committees directly deal with human lives (in a way that is expected from commander in chief), as do governors and Trump. The later two make decisions that can affect thousands of families in the most direct ways.

We are not talking about glorifying anyone. We are talking about how much stress each individual has to deal with. In my mind it is much more stressful to have to deal with 1 family on such an intimate level as opposed to being a senator or governor who just views the masses as potential voters whom he or she must please with their blanket statements and policies.

 

[allantois]

We are not talking about glorifying anyone. We are talking about how much stress each individual has to deal with. In my mind it is much more stressful to have to deal with 1 family on such an intimate level as opposed to being a senator or governor who just views the masses as potential voters whom he or she must please with their blanket statements and policies.

Maybe. But the president does not deal with people on an individual basis.

Personally, I'm extremely surprised by popularity of Trump, Carson, and Bernie. I guess, people are tired of conventional politics.

 

[Gandyy]

Maybe. But the president does not deal with people on an individual basis.

Personally, I'm extremely surprised by popularity of Trump, Carson, and Bernie. I guess, people are tired of conventional politics.

This I can agree with you on 100 percent.

 

[Tommyguns89]

Funny how preallo is steadfastly Democrat/left wing, while the residents/attendings are strongly Republican/right wing given the nature of this thread and threads in the Lounge and specialty forums. Maybe medical school and its douse of realism plays a role.

All of the doses of realism I have had in my life have pushed me away from the libertarian viewpoint to the liberal one. A lot of it just comes down to what segment of society you notice screwing you over more. Attending and residents are worried about medicine moving to a more socialized form AFTER they spent their lives working toward medicine and a mortgage worth on tuition(or after they got used to the good old days in the case of older Docs). Whereas somebody with a blue collar background like myself has more experience being at odds with the business class.

 

[BornSinner]

What about Jeb, Walker, Paul and Rubio?

Walker's own state is indicting him on chit. And he's the biggest corporate sock puppet the Republicans have, so no he wouldn't get elected.

Jeb is getting dragged through the mud by Trump and is quite ironically turning into the Republican Dukakis with his lack of spine LOL

Paul isn't a Republican or at least one that would win a national election considering he's Libertarian, which isn't actually bad... it's just Libertarian philosophy is just not feasible these days... we're in too deep to look back now imo...

Every time Rubio talks in public, his ratings go down and he comes off throwing tantrums every 2 seconds.


Regardless of these points and whether someone is liberal or conservative, the fact of the matter is Obama, the Democrats and Republicans already sold out our future once the TPP was created, signed and delivered.
(TPP has huge implications for the drug industry as well in that member countries may not be able to use generics in lieu of brand names forcing prices to increase across the board, but hey we don't care about that do we? Oh did I mention SOPA pretty much got snuck through as well along with it?)

The public just likes talking about Taylor Swift being racist or some chit to care about actual important stuff like TPP.

Can you say NAFTA on steroids? RIP

 

[BornSinner]

we can disagree there lol

as a surgeon he's level headed, used to making important decisions

Also I felt at the gop debate the others were spouting nonsense but he actually answered the questions

I don't believe for one second a neurosurgeon like Carson refuses to believe in evolution gay marriage etc... especially one from the University of Michigan ... smh.

Dude has to cater to the crazy right wing religious zealots like Bush and Trump are trying to do and that is what will end up costing the Republicans the election.

Go ahead and win 60% of white males... you'll just lose 60% of white females along with 80%+ of every other ethnic group in the country outside of old Cubans.

LOL

 

[Glazedonutlove]

I don't believe for one second a neurosurgeon like Carson refuses to believe in evolution gay marriage etc... especially one from the University of Michigan ... smh.

Dude has to cater to the crazy right wing religious zealots like Bush and Trump are trying to do.

He is a creationist. I'm curious--how would his issues with evolution be a problem other than serve as an easy target for anyone who disagrees with him on any issue? As far as I know, he has never tried to say evolution studies should be banned in education or something

 

[BornSinner]

He is a creationist. I'm curious--how would his issues with evolution be a problem other than serve as an easy target for anyone who disagrees with him on any issue? As far as I know, he has never tried to say evolution studies should be banned in education or something

His creationist views will no doubt affect his policy decisions. Dude thinks the secular progressive movement is ruining this country LOL. You have Republican debates asking dumb questions like what do you think of God? Instead of focusing on **** that's causing problems in this country RIGHT NOW.

Yeah... Given how crucial the next few years will be when it comes to climate change etc... last thing I want is a religious zealot in charge.

Ugh yeah the more I think about it maybe it's not charade and he actually believes the ****.

 

[Lawpy]

I would like to know the age and geographical distribution of SDN attendings.

Considering most went the traditional route, at least 30 years, though many seem to be 40-60ish y/o. Not sure about the geographic distribution but probably concentrated in the eastern side of US

It's actually a cited progression for many. Socially liberal at youth, with a transition to (fiscal) conservatism with age.

The two aren't opposites, since libertarians match both of these categories. But yeah, the trend seems to be quite established in modern history.

I could give you a thorough explanation that would probably piss some people off here as to why that happens. But this time I will not post my thoughts on a topic.

Ah sorry to hear that. Feel free to PM me. I'm not sarcastic or anything, but given the overwhelming left wing sentiment in this thread, it serves as a curious contradiction to right wing sentiment elsewhere on SDN. It's as if SDN is bipolar.

All of the doses of realism I have had in my life have pushed me away from the libertarian viewpoint to the liberal one. A lot of it just comes down to what segment of society you notice screwing you over more. Attending and residents are worried about medicine moving to a more socialized form AFTER they spent their lives working toward medicine and a mortgage worth on tuition(or after they got used to the good old days in the case of older Docs). Whereas somebody with a blue collar background like myself has more experience being at odds with the business class.

I respect that, since blue collar Dems do present important economic considerations regarding wages and labor rights. Life experiences shape people differently, and i personally went in an opposite direction (and got reinforced by reading financial newspapers/magazines). I guess i just inherently oppose all Keynesian theories regarding government interference, since they are deeply flawed and only promote dangerous artificial stimulations. But hey, that's what economics is. To each their own indeed.

Walker's own state is indicting him on chit. And he's the biggest corporate sock puppet the Republicans have, so no he wouldn't get elected.

Jeb is getting dragged through the mud by Trump and is quite ironically turning into the Republican Dukakis with his lack of spine LOL

Paul isn't a Republican or at least one that would win a national election considering he's Libertarian, which isn't actually bad... it's just Libertarian philosophy is just not feasible these days... we're in too deep to look back now imo...

Every time Rubio talks in public, his ratings go down and he comes off throwing tantrums every 2 seconds.


Regardless of these points and whether someone is liberal or conservative, the fact of the matter is Obama, the Democrats and Republicans already sold out our future once the TPP was created, signed and delivered.
(TPP has huge implications for the drug industry as well in that member countries may not be able to use generics in lieu of brand names forcing prices to increase across the board, but hey we don't care about that do we? Oh did I mention SOPA pretty much got snuck through as well along with it?)

The public just likes talking about Taylor Swift being racist or some chit to care about actual important stuff like TPP.

Can you say NAFTA on steroids? RIP

Walker tanked a recall and won the reelection quite handily in a blue state. He's more than fine. And i don't understand the hate of corporations but that's besides the point.

Pfft. That's just temporary distraction. Jeb may be like his father, but Trump isn't another Ross Perot.

Why? Libertarian theories are primarily taught in economics classes for a reason. They work well in practice but the massivr government bureaucracy fractured the economy and created an illusion of government importance. Libertarianism is fine, but the electorate isn't exactly open-minded.

His foreign policy is sound.

TPP is being exaggerated to be a bad thing just like any trade deal, any nuclear deal, and any deal involving a country that is viewed to be an enemy or inferior. I wouldn't buy into that hype.

 

[allantois]

he can't be singled out for that--every republican on that stage held the same views

Trump really does not have an issue with gay marriage.

"So anybody that’s making that an issue is doing it for political reasons. The Supreme Court ruled on it."

He also apparently attended a gay wedding.

 

[allantois]

And he is still for "clean air" even if he doesn't outright admit that humans are causing the global warming.
And he "evolved" on the issue of abortions.
And he has been against the war in Iraq all along.
And while he wants to repeal Obamacare, don't forget that he wants to replace it with universal healthcare.

I'm not buying into Trump's appeals to the far right.

 

[BornSinner]

And he is still for "clean air" even if he doesn't outright admit that humans are causing the global warming.

And he "evolved" on the issue of abortions.

And he has been against the war in Iraq all along.

I'm not buying into Trump's appeals to the far right.

Trump is as moderate as they come.. dude openly admitted to buying off politicians as he pleases.

Not to mention his support for universal healthcare (gasp!)

The fact that he's still in this thing is just a testament to how out of whack American politics is. >_<

 

[allantois]

Trump is as moderate as they come.. dude openly admitted to buying off politicians as he pleases.

Not to mention his support for universal healthcare (gasp!)

The fact that he's still in this thing is just a testament to how out of whack American politics is. >_<

I like that him and Bernie are pulling their respective parties to the left.

 

[BornSinner]

I like that him and Bernie are pulling their respective parties to the left.

Yeah if we casually avoid the blatant xenophobia and racism that comes along with Trump's followers...

 

[Gandyy]

I really don't like trump for reals tho

 

[allantois]

Yeah if we casually avoid the blatant xenophobia and racism that comes along with Trump's followers...

Well, there aren't many issues he can use to attract GOP fanatics given his stances on points above.

Perhaps, he would steer away from that rhetoric if he was to get the nomination. I actually think he has the best chance of getting votes from white moderates of all the GOP candidates. Still, he may be permanently damaging his chances with racial minorities.

 

[BornSinner]

Well, there aren't many issues he can use to attract GOP fanatics given his stances on points above.

Perhaps, he would steer away from that rhetoric if he was to get the nomination. I actually think he has the best chance of getting votes from white moderates of all the GOP candidates. Still, he may be permanently damaging his chances with racial minorities.

Not only his chances... The Republican party already has minority issues...last thing I'm sure the establishment wants is for candidates to piss off Latinos/Hispanics... nvm that already happened. Yeah they pretty much ceded all the races/ethnic groups outside of old Cubans.

 

[allantois]

Not only his chances... The Republican party already has minority issues...last thing I'm sure the establishment wants is for candidates to piss off Latinos/Hispanics... nvm that already happened. Yeah they pretty much ceded all the races/ethnic groups outside of old Cubans.

In a way, he is really the best thing to have happened to Democrats.

 

[johnston9234]

passage of important legislation or a large scale business deal is more high stakes than someone's life and the effect that it has on their family?

......

I mean, I hate to break it to you but a human life does have a finite value. We just dont like to talk about it.

 

[efle]

I mean, I hate to break it to you but a human life does have a finite value. We just dont like to talk about it.

It only has finite value in that the resources could be used to save or enhance other lives much more efficiently. The value per QALY is already insanely high and only increases

 

[Glazedonutlove]

you guys are missing the point---all I was pointing out was that as a surgeon, he is accustomed to making important decisions that affects lives (1 at a time, I see it as valuable.)

 

[StudyLater]

I like and dislike Trump simultaneously.

passage of important legislation or a large scale business deal is more high stakes than someone's life and the effect that it has on their family?

......

Business leaders would scoff at this as a ridiculous question.

Off the record in their private board meetings.

I really don't like trump for reals tho

Why, specifically?

Well, there aren't many issues he can use to attract GOP fanatics given his stances on points above.

Perhaps, he would steer away from that rhetoric if he was to get the nomination. I actually think he has the best chance of getting votes from white moderates of all the GOP candidates. Still, he may be permanently damaging his chances with racial minorities.

Other than immigration, what else did you have in mind that would cause him to damage his chances with them?

 

[medicineradman]

I guess this is a pretty old thread but I was looking for a sanders thread glad to see the discussion started. People don't like politics on these boards much but there's a reason doctors dont control their own destiny, because of that exact sentiment.

In any case, just wanted to clarify what would happen to physicians if Bernie wins. First is the tax bracket which you probably know would go up, possibly as high as 40-45%. That's just income tax; you can't forget about Medicare, Social security, disability. Then there is this universal Medicare for all program. That would depress wages significantly. So you'll get taxed more and make less, delivering worse care. As pre-allo's this should be of real concern. You guys are paying a lot to go through school bc changes haven't taken effect yet to make Med school faster/cheaper.

Let's say you get a salary of 200k starting, bernie taxes and deductions would reduce this to 80-85k. You have to put 18k pretax to 401k (starting your 401k as an attending is a really bad idea,start now) so now youre closer to 70-75k. maybe you have 500 in loans a month to pay (conservative) now it's 65. You're living on 3k a month after housing, you're left with 30-35k. Hopefully you don't have kids!

Bernie would be a disaster for physicians. Your choice though, but understand when politicians like Bernie talk about the rich disdainfully, they're talking about you. If the above sounds pretty good for the trade off then he's your man.

 

[Lawpy]

I guess this is a pretty old thread but I was looking for a sanders thread glad to see the discussion started. People don't like politics on these boards much but there's a reason doctors dont control their own destiny, because of that exact sentiment.

In any case, just wanted to clarify what would happen to physicians if Bernie wins. First is the tax bracket which you probably know would go up, possibly as high as 40-45%. That's just income tax; you can't forget about Medicare, Social security, disability. Then there is this universal Medicare for all program. That would depress wages significantly. So you'll get taxed more and make less, delivering worse care. As pre-allo's this should be of real concern. You guys are paying a lot to go through school bc changes haven't taken effect yet to make Med school faster/cheaper.

Let's say you get a salary of 200k starting, bernie taxes and deductions would reduce this to 80-85k. You have to put 18k pretax to 401k (starting your 401k as an attending is a really bad idea,start now) so now youre closer to 70-75k. maybe you have 500 in loans a month to pay (conservative) now it's 65. You're living on 3k a month after housing, you're left with 30-35k. Hopefully you don't have kids!

Bernie would be a disaster for physicians. Your choice though, but understand when politicians like Bernie talk about the rich disdainfully, they're talking about you. But if the above sounds pretty good for the trade off then he's your man.

@WedgeDawg plz halp

 

[ZedsDed]

I guess this is a pretty old thread but I was looking for a sanders thread glad to see the discussion started. People don't like politics on these boards much but there's a reason doctors dont control their own destiny, because of that exact sentiment.

In any case, just wanted to clarify what would happen to physicians if Bernie wins. First is the tax bracket which you probably know would go up, possibly as high as 40-45%. That's just income tax; you can't forget about Medicare, Social security, disability. Then there is this universal Medicare for all program. That would depress wages significantly. So you'll get taxed more and make less, delivering worse care. As pre-allo's this should be of real concern. You guys are paying a lot to go through school bc changes haven't taken effect yet to make Med school faster/cheaper.

Let's say you get a salary of 200k starting, bernie taxes and deductions would reduce this to 80-85k. You have to put 18k pretax to 401k (starting your 401k as an attending is a really bad idea,start now) so now youre closer to 70-75k. maybe you have 500 in loans a month to pay (conservative) now it's 65. You're living on 3k a month after housing, you're left with 30-35k. Hopefully you don't have kids!

Bernie would be a disaster for physicians. Your choice though, but understand when politicians like Bernie talk about the rich disdainfully, they're talking about you. If the above sounds pretty good for the trade off then he's your man.

We already have a thread like this in the SPF. @WedgeDawg please don't move this. There's no reason to keep two identical threads open.

 

[WedgeDawg]

@medicineradman

There's a currently active thread in the sociopolitical area of the forum located here: How would a Sanders single-payer healthcare system work?

Let's please keep discussions in that thread!

Since this thread is several months old, I'm going to go ahead and lock it.

(also the report feature is faster just btw)