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will programs let you start late?
- Thread starter ga girl117
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i think it depends on the program, but i do know that one of the grounds for breaking the match is if an applicant is unable to start on the right date...
i only heard of this because of visa issues. APD (or anyone who knows...)--what are the applicants' "rights" about this. How flexible are PDs about not starting on time? I'm all set to start should I match but I'm afraid of contracts sent late...and embassy nitpicking!
i only heard of this because of visa issues. APD (or anyone who knows...)--what are the applicants' "rights" about this. How flexible are PDs about not starting on time? I'm all set to start should I match but I'm afraid of contracts sent late...and embassy nitpicking!
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Blade28
Illness in the family? Or something else?
I mean, if it's an illness, that's very understandable, IMHO.
I mean, if it's an illness, that's very understandable, IMHO.
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deleted109597
Wait, you're going to have an emergency in July? It's, uh, February.
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I'd rather not get into specifics but it is a legitimate family issue. I don't think there is any doubt the program would understand the validity of the issue. I am just curious what the policy generally is? APD?? Any input?
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hmmm...i wonder if this played a role in your ranking decision. i honestly wont be sure if I would bring this up during the interviews or post-interview communication unless i know i'm a fabulous candidate whom the PD will want so much...still it would be good to be assured that you can really keep the job you match into...
visa issues aside...that's what i know...the match can be broken if the resident is unable to report to the job on July 1...
if that were me, i'd await the match (nothing to be done now) and talk to the PD asap. since you are so sure that it would be perceived as a valid reason, well, you just really have to get on the good side of the PD then. of course, it would be tough to miss out on the first days...
good luck!
visa issues aside...that's what i know...the match can be broken if the resident is unable to report to the job on July 1...
if that were me, i'd await the match (nothing to be done now) and talk to the PD asap. since you are so sure that it would be perceived as a valid reason, well, you just really have to get on the good side of the PD then. of course, it would be tough to miss out on the first days...
good luck!
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Lemme guess...
you're pregnant.
You've known you were pregnant for many months but choose to not disclose it until you match.
Please don't be insulted, because this is an extremely common scenario, so much so that I am suprised we haven't seen a spate of threads dealing with this very issue.
At any rate, the program is not obligated, regardless of the reason, to allow you to start late. When you enroll in the match, you and your school are verifying that you will be able to start on time. Emergencies aside, your situation is obviously not one and a program doesn't have to allow you to start late.
I think it unlikely that they would void your contract or rescind the offer, but it is a possibility and you must accept that. More likely they will grudgingly agree, perhaps make you take all of your vacation time when you are off and expect you to extend your residency. Consider that if you are thinking about a fellowship, starting residency late means not starting fellowship on time.
you're pregnant.
You've known you were pregnant for many months but choose to not disclose it until you match.
Please don't be insulted, because this is an extremely common scenario, so much so that I am suprised we haven't seen a spate of threads dealing with this very issue.
At any rate, the program is not obligated, regardless of the reason, to allow you to start late. When you enroll in the match, you and your school are verifying that you will be able to start on time. Emergencies aside, your situation is obviously not one and a program doesn't have to allow you to start late.
I think it unlikely that they would void your contract or rescind the offer, but it is a possibility and you must accept that. More likely they will grudgingly agree, perhaps make you take all of your vacation time when you are off and expect you to extend your residency. Consider that if you are thinking about a fellowship, starting residency late means not starting fellowship on time.
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Blade28
Hmmm...interesting!
But then why would she have said:
...because then it sounds like she would be delivering the baby in 4 1/2 months, but only just found out now? The timeline seems a little off.
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Hmmm...interesting!
But then why would she have said:
...because then it sounds like she would be delivering the baby in 4 1/2 months, but only just found out now? The timeline seems a little off.
Hmmm...didn't see that although in my defense you COULD be 4.5 months pregnant and not know it. You've seen those ladies in the ED with "cramps" haven't you?
Besides, just because she can't start on time doesn't mean that she would be delivering in July. Maybe she is a couple of months along and planning on delivering in August. Ok...math still doesn't add up. Just thinking off the top of my head. My apologies to the OP but the rest of my answer still stands.
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Blade28
Fair enough!
Hmmm...didn't see that although in my defense you COULD be 4.5 months pregnant and not know it. You've seen those ladies in the ED with "cramps" haven't you?
Or you could be hanging out in the ER of your local VA hospital one Sunday morning when a 17-year-old non-English-speaking teen comes rushing in, in full active labor, 10 cm dilated and 100% effaced, begging for help even though she didn't realize that she's at one of the few hospitals in the city without OB/GYN or Peds, and then suddenly discover that not a single ER physician is willing to help deliver the baby, instead opting to wait for a special pediatric-equipped ambulance to take her somewhere else while the baby's head begins to crown!
Oh wait, that happened to me. When I was 6 months into my PGY-2 year. And I delivered the baby.
Or should I say, NSVD, no lacs, APGARs 9/10.
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Or you could be hanging out in the ER of your local VA hospital one Sunday morning when a 17-year-old non-English-speaking teen comes rushing in, in full active labor, 10 cm dilated and 100% effaced, begging for help even though she didn't realize that she's at one of the few hospitals in the city without OB/GYN or Peds, and then suddenly discover that not a single ER physician is willing to help deliver the baby, instead opting to wait for a special pediatric-equipped ambulance to take her somewhere else while the baby's head begins to crown!
Oh wait, that happened to me. When I was 6 months into my PGY-2 year. And I delivered the baby.
Or should I say, NSVD, no lacs, APGARs 9/10.
And you say that all ER calls are bogus consults!
I delivered a couple of approx 18 week old twins last fall.
NSVD, no lacs, APGARS 0/0
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Blade28
And you say that all ER calls are bogus consults!
Except I had to volunteer. Everyone else was too terrified to do anything. I mean, normally "lawsuit" might have crossed my mind, but the damn baby was coming out, damn it!
I delivered a couple of approx 18 week old twins last fall.
NSVD, no lacs, APGARS 0/0
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ga girl, I am sure no one meant any offense. But misunderstandings are very common on internet forums, particularly when the original post is very vague and left open to interpretation. It is very hard to imagine any other type of emergency that you would know about 4-5 months in advance. You say that nothing constructive has been said, but many of the above posts have been quite informative, things I didn't realize. They may not apply to your specific situation completely, but you haven't provided much about your situation. Please try not to take things personally, I am sure people apologize (there was already one apology posted above) if they did offend you.
Here's the problem: If you know about this emergency well in advance, you have to be honest with the program. If they really want you and think you have potential, they will almost certainly agree to work with you on it. They may ask you to work something out with them or take it as vacation time or something, who knows, every situation is probably different. In my program, we had a resident start residency 9 months pregnant and worked two days (of orientation) before having the baby, the first 2-3 months were just used as elective and vacation time, I believe. But if you go to them in may or june and say you can't show up until July 15, especially if it's something you knew about for months, that's a big problem. The first couple of months of residency are often the most critical for orientation purposes and other generalities.
Here's the problem: If you know about this emergency well in advance, you have to be honest with the program. If they really want you and think you have potential, they will almost certainly agree to work with you on it. They may ask you to work something out with them or take it as vacation time or something, who knows, every situation is probably different. In my program, we had a resident start residency 9 months pregnant and worked two days (of orientation) before having the baby, the first 2-3 months were just used as elective and vacation time, I believe. But if you go to them in may or june and say you can't show up until July 15, especially if it's something you knew about for months, that's a big problem. The first couple of months of residency are often the most critical for orientation purposes and other generalities.
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I wonder if the Winged One has ever been called a male chauvinist before.
I thought her answer was very reasonable, considering the information provided.
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I'm sorry if I offended you and no, I'm not male. I've been on SDN for 8 years and while it may not apply to you, it IS extremely common to get posts from female MS4s this time of the year who are pregnant and want to start residency late. And you're right its none of our business why you want to start late but it CAN make a difference in our response to you and how the situation is handled. So again I'm sorry if I jumped to conclusions but I think my question was relevant.
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Or you could be hanging out in the ER of your local VA hospital one Sunday morning when a 17-year-old non-English-speaking teen comes rushing in, in full active labor, 10 cm dilated and 100% effaced, begging for help even though she didn't realize that she's at one of the few hospitals in the city without OB/GYN or Peds, and then suddenly discover that not a single ER physician is willing to help deliver the baby, instead opting to wait for a special pediatric-equipped ambulance to take her somewhere else while the baby's head begins to crown!
Oh wait, that happened to me. When I was 6 months into my PGY-2 year. And I delivered the baby.
Or should I say, NSVD, no lacs, APGARs 9/10.
See, Blade? Didn't delivering that baby give you a nice warm, fuzzy feeling all over?
I delivered a couple of approx 18 week old twins last fall.
NSVD, no lacs, APGARS 0/0
:cry:
"Male chauvinist"? Whoa. Didn't see that one coming!
Actually, I think pretty constructive stuff has been said. I'm sorry that the suggestion that you might be pregnant offended you so much - particularly when the suggestion came from another female.
I think you need to calm down. And I don't understand why the suggestion that you might be pregnant is so offensive?
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Blade28
See, Blade? Didn't delivering that baby give you a nice warm, fuzzy feeling all over?
Yes but only because I was the General Surgery badass that saved the day when no one else in the ER could!
I tell you, I must have a superhero complex. See my cape?
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I tell you, I must have a superhero complex. See my cape?
No! No capes!
Clearly, someone hasn't heard of Isadora Duncan. Or seen The Incredibles. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isadora_Duncan#Death)
(I realize that I just derailed the conversation, but screw it - the OP deleted her posts anyway!)
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Blade28
No! No capes!
Clearly, someone hasn't heard of Isadora Duncan. Or seen The Incredibles. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isadora_Duncan#Death)
I have indeed seen the Incredibles - and think it's one of the top 3 Pixar movies!
But I still like my cape. (After all, the trench coats in the Matrix were basically their cyberpunk/hacker-style way of wearing capes!)
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The Incredibles is one of my favorite movies. They played a few times on TV over Christmas break - and I sat down to watch it each time.
Do you attach the cape to your scrubs? Or did you just order an extra-billowy white coat?
Oh, I forgot about your program's weird ideas about resident white coats...
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Blade28
An outstanding movie, IMHO! I was wrong, it's in the top 4 Pixar movies - up there with Finding Nemo, Ratatouille and Monsters Inc.
I wish! No, I have to wear my superhero outfit underneath my scrubs. I then have to run outside and find a nearby phonebooth before I go back inside to scrub in.
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Yes but only because I was the General Surgery badass that saved the day when no one else in the ER could!
Thank God you were there!
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The EM residents were terrified?
Does the EM program at your hospital make the residents rotate through L&D?
I always had to fight with the EM intern to get deliveries. He wasn't exactly a shining example of a great intern - he'd let everyone else do all the paperwork and grunt work, while he hid out in the lounge, and then he'd jump in and deliver the baby. He wouldn't even write the delivery note, which went over REALLY well with the L&D chief.
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Blade28
The EM residents were terrified?
Does the EM program at your hospital make the residents rotate through L&D?
There were no ER residents, just ER attendings (2 of them) and a few IM moonlighters.
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Whew - it WAS a good thing for that girl (and that baby!) that you were there....
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Blade28
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Sorry for ruining this great thread by getting it back on track.
Programs have every right to terminate any resident who is not present and available to work on July 1st.
Replacing residents is a huge pain, so most programs will delay a resident's start for a short period. This frequently happens with visa problems.
Whether or not a delay will be allowed would depend on:
1. The competitiveness of the program. The more competitive, the easier to fill.
2. Whether the emergency is a "one time event". If it looks to be a long running issue / recurrent issue, then programs may be more nervous.
3. Whether it is truly out of your control, and whether you knew about it when you interviewed.
Since the issue of maternity leave was raised, I might as well comment on that also:
1. Maternity leave fits into the above explanation -- short term, limited time frame, unlikely to be recurrent. There is the "did you know when you interviewed" issue, but federal law is supposed to prevent discrimination based on this issue.
2. You usually can't claim "Maternity leave" if your program offers it. In order to claim a benefit like this, you usually have to work there for some period of time. You can't start on a paid leave (if your program offers paid maternity leaves).
Programs have every right to terminate any resident who is not present and available to work on July 1st.
Replacing residents is a huge pain, so most programs will delay a resident's start for a short period. This frequently happens with visa problems.
Whether or not a delay will be allowed would depend on:
1. The competitiveness of the program. The more competitive, the easier to fill.
2. Whether the emergency is a "one time event". If it looks to be a long running issue / recurrent issue, then programs may be more nervous.
3. Whether it is truly out of your control, and whether you knew about it when you interviewed.
Since the issue of maternity leave was raised, I might as well comment on that also:
1. Maternity leave fits into the above explanation -- short term, limited time frame, unlikely to be recurrent. There is the "did you know when you interviewed" issue, but federal law is supposed to prevent discrimination based on this issue.
2. You usually can't claim "Maternity leave" if your program offers it. In order to claim a benefit like this, you usually have to work there for some period of time. You can't start on a paid leave (if your program offers paid maternity leaves).
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Your current program has every right to insist you stay until June 30.
This is the reason we make our Prelims take the last week of June as vacation so that they can travel to their new program.
You'll have to hope that one of the programs cuts you some slack. If you leave your current program short of fulfilling your contract, they can refuse to give you credit for the year.
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