Work life balance

[nimbus]

Her comments apply to both men and women. If you want to be a clock puncher, go work at Home Depot. If you want to be a doctor, be a doctor.

http://members.csahq.org/blog/2015/06/22/did-dr-virginia-apgar-worry-about-work-life-balance

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[teeva]

The typical physician works for The Man, serves the customer, spends 1/2 the day staring at a computer console and the other 1/2 doing paperwork and sitting on the phone, much like a Home Depot clerk/cashier.

I don't get your point.

 

[urge]

I don't listen to these old farts of medicine. You can't move forward with backwards thinking.

Their time came and went, and they did things the way they understood was necessary.

The younger generation will do the same.

You have to keep in mind that these guys are the ones responsible for the current debacle in medicine. They neglected their families while spending countless hours in the hospital eliminating patients (that's what you did back then). And these are the guys who want to tell you that they know better.

 

[caligas]

I give away 3 calls for every one of these articles I see.

 

[Twiggidy]

Yeah. I really hate listening to this "back in my day" crap from these old farts. Most of them work like dog because they over-extended themselves with 5000 sq ft houses, continuing to support multiple kids well into adulthood, and supports mutliple divorces BECAUSE they worked like a dog. It's hard for me in an all MD pp to listen to some academic chair who likely has residents/crnas to pawn work off too tell me "don't complain about burnout".

 

[Consigliere]

Keep in mind as well that these old skid marks were well compensated and well respected; both of which are not present in this day and age.

 

[deleted126335]

Keep in mind as well that these old skid marks were well compensated and well respected; both of which are not present in this day and age.

As opposed to you young skid marks? As a group you would not have done any different. If I were a fresh grad I would probably be choosing the work/life balance track that Dr. Sibert laments. As it was, I was incentivized to work very hard and I did. You simply resent us for being dealt a better hand than you.

 

[Twiggidy]

You simply resent us for being dealt a better hand than you.

More like we resent you for creating a culture. Instead of, "Oh this you're off day. I guess I'll figure this out" it's "What do you mean you're off today? Blah Blah Blah back in 1989 would come from his vacation 300 mi away to do my case and then my next 7 for the week".

 

[seinfeld]

Years ago medical school started promoting the fact that were no longer taking just the smartest students but the most well rounded, personable types. Well when you select out people who have multiple interests outside of medicine its no wonder the current day Doc doesn't want to work 60+ hours per week. Add to the fact that the reward just isn't what it used to be and that actually you get penalized from the government by making more than 250K.

I can see both sides here. I am a young person who still believes in a hard work ethic. But i would say that I am more concerned about how hard you work when one is there than the hours they put in. But at the same time, putting your life on emergency mode when you "shift" is scheduled to end is ridiculous. Having an emergency roll in that holds you up 10-15 minutes from your scheduled out time gives you no right as a professional with obligations for the greater good to start a temper tantrum like a 2 year old.

 

[jw3600]

You simply resent us for being dealt a better hand than you.

Not saying this isn't true but I believe you are partly responsible for the hand we were dealt.

 

[deleted126335]

As a group we are.

 

[criticalelement]

Her comments apply to both men and women. If you want to be a clock puncher, go work at Home Depot. If you want to be a doctor, be a doctor.

http://members.csahq.org/blog/2015/06/22/did-dr-virginia-apgar-worry-about-work-life-balance

I agree. But a doctor doesnt listen to a ****in g bureacrat about how to go about practicing medicine. A doctor doesnt listen toa **** ing bureacrat what to put in a medical chart in order to communicate with colleagues. Weve turned the medical record into a exercise in "I dont know what" instead of communication with colleagues. Things are WAAAYY different now

 

[stevesteve123]

Did Dr. Virginia Apgar Worry About Work-Life Balance?































'Apgar never married, and died on August 7, 1974 (age 65) at Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center."


dats a sad lyfe

 

[deleted171991]

Years ago medical school started promoting the fact that were no longer taking just the smartest students but the most well rounded, personable types. Well when you select out people who have multiple interests outside of medicine its no wonder the current day Doc doesn't want to work 60+ hours per week.

I am sorry to vehemently disagree, but the smartest people do have multiple (as in a lot of) intellectual interests. That just comes with the high IQ territory. Some of them are also diagnosed as ADHD by some less intelligent people.

Medicine is a "calling" mostly for people who are not good at other stuff. In many specialties, a doctor can get away with an intelligence level that would disqualify them as an engineer or real scientist. Of course, medicine is much more than just applied intelligence, but the only reason it used to attract the best and brightest was the income level. And they only used to work much more than nowadays because they made incredibly more money.

No other country comes even close to the average hours worked by American doctors, even now, with all these "young and lazy" generations.

 

[deleted50478]

I am sorry to vehemently disagree, but the smartest people do have multiple (as in a lot of) intellectual interests. That just comes with the high IQ territory.

Medicine is a "calling" mostly for people who are not good at other stuff. In many specialties, a doctor can get away with an intelligence level that would disqualify them as an engineer or real scientist.

Doctors could have lower IQs and do the job, but we don't have lower IQs because we wouldn't be admitted to medical school.
Doctors have the highest average IQ of any profession because the lower end of the bell curve that exists in other selective fields is mostly eliminated in medicine. The lower 25th percentile medical schools is much more selective than the low end of most PhD or engineering programs.
There's more overlap than difference when comparing IQ in various top professions though.

 

[deleted171991]

Medical schools in America don't select high IQ people. They select personable high-grit people. There is a huge difference.

I rarely find colleagues whose IQ leaves me in awe. You know, the type that will make some incredibly smart associations just from tidbits, even outside their own specialty. Just look at how many doctors are Math-challenged.

 

[repititionition]

Medical schools in America don't select high IQ people. They select personable high-grit people. There is a huge difference.

I rarely find colleagues whose IQ leaves me in awe. You know, the type that will make some incredibly smart associations just from tidbits, even outside their own specialty. Just look at how many doctors are Math-challenged.

The "personable" bit is questionable, though the rest is spot on. I do still stand in awe of the folks that can one-pass cram in 24 hours what takes the rest of a group a month, though. Not true IQ, but some doctors (and doctors-to-be) have truly incredible short-term memory.

I was talking with mentor last night who said "my biggest disappointment when I got to medical school (in the 80's) was that it wasn't full of renaissance men (sic), but people good at taking tests".

 

[Twiggidy]

...people good at taking tests".

yep

 

[deleted50478]

Most people on this board don't know the difference between than and then, how smart can doctors be?

Anecdotes aside, if you search for IQ by profession, you will find doctors at the top. Like I said before, there's more overlap than difference in the ranges, but we're still at the top.

It's not that doctors are geniuses, it's that neither are most people in other professions.

 

[deleted126335]

Most people on this board don't know the difference between than and then, how smart can doctors be?

Anecdotes aside, if you search for IQ by profession, you will find doctors at the top. Like I said before, there's more overlap than difference in the ranges, but we're still at the top.

It's not that doctors are geniuses, it's that neither are most people in other professions.

"The world is run by C students"
- Harry S Truman

"school is a place where former A students teach mostly B students to work for C students"

- Richard Branson

 

[sevoflurane]

Back to the point of this thread: Work life balance is a topic that should be continually thought about throughout our careers.

Had an old partner of mine retire extremely wealthy (think 8 digits). He retired at almost 70 y/o. He now has multiple medical issues. He isn't taking a fraction of that wealth to the grave with him. IMHO, he missed the boat and sacrificed his prime years to the grind.

 

[caligas]

Back to the point of this thread: Work life balance is a topic that should be continually thought about throughout our careers.

Had an old partner of mine retire extremely wealthy (think 8 digits). He retired at almost 70 y/o. He now has multiple medical issues. He isn't taking a fraction of that wealth to the grave with him. IMHO, he missed the boat and sacrificed his prime years to the grind.

I think a lot of these guys dont know how NOT to work, identity too tied up with career and building as much wealth as possible.

 

[nimbus]

I think a lot of these guys dont know how NOT to work, identity too tied up with career and building as much wealth as possible.

Or he enjoyed the grind. At some point, he stopped working for money and was working for other reasons.

I prefer to do an interesting case over many other things like watching most sports or reality TV. But that's just me.

 

[criticalelement]

I prefer to do an interesting case over many other things like watching most sports or reality TV. But that's just me.

I prefer to do many other things like watching sports, reality tv, sticking a needle in my ear drum over an interesting case. But that's just me.

 

[seinfeld]

I am sorry to vehemently disagree, but the smartest people do have multiple (as in a lot of) intellectual interests. That just comes with the high IQ territory. Some of them are also diagnosed as ADHD by some less intelligent people.

Medicine is a "calling" mostly for people who are not good at other stuff. In many specialties, a doctor can get away with an intelligence level that would disqualify them as an engineer or real scientist. Of course, medicine is much more than just applied intelligence, but the only reason it used to attract the best and brightest was the income level. And they only used to work much more than nowadays because they made incredibly more money.

No other country comes even close to the average hours worked by American doctors, even now, with all these "young and lazy" generations.

sorry didn't see this earlier.

I do agree with you FFP. In my mind i was referring to the person who was very intelligent but the sole focus of life was science and medicine. Perhaps I overestimate the change in the admission process to med school. My impression was that more emphasis was being placed on the who the person is and not merely/only how smart they are.