Work versus Continuing School

[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

Hello Everyone,

I hope everyone is doing well during the pandemic. I am currently enrolled in a general psychology program and have been thinking about my next steps since I graduate in a year. Here are the options:
1) Start the process to become a certified drug and alcohol counselor to get some experience (and start to pay off debt/save money) before moving to a MSW or PsyD program
2) Apply to MSW programs immediately after graduating
3) Apply to PsyD programs immediately after graduating
4) Apply to both types of programs once I graduate

My undergraduate GPA was a 2.6 and so far my graduate GPA Is a 3.65. I would like to someday work with people who have co-occurring mental and substance use disorders and become a professor down the road.

Which option do you think is better? Regarding MSW versus PsyD, which degree do you all think would be better to move into becoming a professor? If I went the MSW route, would I have to get my Doctorate to become a professor? Lastly, since I will already have a masters when I apply, would I have to take the GRE in order to apply to MSW or PsyD programs?

Thank you all for taking the time to read and reply to this forum.

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[WisNeuro]

Do you have any meaningful research experience? Why only PsyD and not also clinically focused PhDs? How much debt are you comfortable taking on?

 

[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

I do not have any research experience. I am willing to take on more debt if I have to. I would love to apply to PhD programs but I thought that they are out of reach for me since I have no research experience. Is it even possible to get into a Clinically focused PhD without any research experience?

 

[summerbabe]

and become a professor down the road

Are you envisioning more like part-time adjunct teaching (while working primarily as a clinician), full-time but not tenure tracked adjunct teaching (would not recommend this path for a variety of reasons), or a tenure track teaching career?

I know people who have adjunct-taught in Social Work and MFT grad/undergrad programs with their masters degree but you probably need a doctorate for tenure rack positions in these fields. Regardless, you'll be teaching in your degree field so that's important to determine now.

Within psychology, a PsyD is generally not a good path for tenure track professorships since it's a clinically oriented degree and while PsyDs do research during grad school, most programs aren't equipped to support putting together the type of research CV needed for highly competitive tenure-track assistant professorships post-graduation.

Without research experience and your current stats, you're probably exclusively looking lower-tier, self-pay PsyDs, which is not the best option financially or professionally. Lots of good info on this recent thread.

But if the goal is to primarily be a clinician who teaches a class or two on the side sometimes, most in the addictions field have bachelors or clinical masters degree so I'd lean toward the MSW. Good luck!

 

[WisNeuro]

I do not have any research experience. I am willing to take on more debt if I have to. I would love to apply to PhD programs but I thought that they are out of reach for me since I have no research experience. Is it even possible to get into a Clinically focused PhD without any research experience?

Well, it's not really feasible to get into a PhD or a reputable PsyD without ANY research experience. It's pretty much only diploma mills at that point.

 

[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

Thank you both for the replies! I think I am leaning more towards the MSW route now since I would like to avoid diploma mills. The dream would be to become a tenure-track professor in social work however I would also be fine with being a adjunct professor part-time. Is there a WAMC thread for MSW programs or would I just have to post in the PsyD/PhD WAMC thread?

Thank you both again

 

[PsyDr]

1) Most people will never go back to school, once they stop. You start making money, you get stuff, you create a social life. Maybe you buy a house, get married, have a kid or eight. It gets hard to quit all of that. It's a variation on the frequent SDN "I don't want to move from my location, but I want to complete a PhD/PsyD.". Sure, there are some outliers that are willing to completely change their lifestyle, but they are uncommon.

2) Frankly, I would not trust anyone that obtained one of those certified drug counselor things. The educational requirements are minimal, the field is nonscientific, the pay is hilariously bad, and it seems like most of that profession is comprised of people with prior substance abuse. I'm sure they are helpful, but science is not based upon personal experience.

3) WHY do you want to be a professor? Are you sure you understand what being a professor entails? Research is a substantial part of that job, arguably more than teaching. The phrase is "publish or perish", it's not "teach 4 classes or perish".

4) An MSW is approximately one year of coursework in mental anything. It is not equivalent to a PsyD. Pay is also different, which you should consider.

 

[Temperance]

I am currently enrolled in a general psychology program and have been thinking about my next steps since I graduate in a year.

What research opportunities does your program offer? Are you expected to write a master's thesis?

 

[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

My program does not have any research opportunities. Instead of a master's thesis, there is a capstone project.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

In my very, very cursory review of social work departments, all of the professors had doctorates. The instructors often had MSWs. So if professorship is a goal, it would seem a doctorate may be a requisite. But I would also second PsyDr's questions of why you would want to be a professor. If you "just" want to teach (quotations because teaching is a huge responsibility), an MSW would be an option if you opt for the social work route. If you actually want to take on acadmic professorship, again, the doctorate seems necessary.

For psychology, you'll likely be at a disadvantage in the academic job market with a Psy.D., fair or not. There are definitely Psy.D.'s on academic faculties across the country, but it's much less common than a Ph.D., likely for a variety of reasons (bias being only one of those). To be competitive for reputable programs, PhD or PsyD, you'll need research experience. If that's absolutely not in the cards for you, unfortunately, a psychology doctorate may not be a viable option.

I would strongly recommend an MSW over a certification in substance abuse. Your career options will be much broader.

 

[Sanman]

You have multiple goals and the best option for each is a little different:

1. If you must go directly to grad school, go get an MSW from a reputable public U. Cheap will help you in the long run. If you simply want a job as a therapist this is your best option as they can see medicare and medicaid patients most easily and can get on insurance panels. Most w-2 jobs are geared towards MSW that I see.

2. If you have time, go get a job as a research assistant or lab manager and get some research, then apply to good balanced PhD or PsyD programs with funding. This is likely the best option if you want better clinical training, want private practice or specialty practice. That said, psychology is not as present in the substance abuse area in geenral. Pick your program properly to get exposure to this area.

3. If you want to be a professor, my guess would be that a Doctorate in Social Work is a likely your best option. As clinicians generally stop with an MSW in that field, there is less competition for slots and likely more jobs.

I would narrow down exactly what you want your career to look like and then see what goals you want to pursue.

 

[R. Matey]

There are Ph.Ds in social welfare, which are typical degrees in MSW programs especially in state schools. You may want to find a social work program that interests you and see if you can get an informational interview with a faculty member or doctoral student in social work.

 

[Goobernut]

Lots of excellent advice in this thread! As a member of the social work profession just wanted to add a few things from my viewpoint.

I’m a first generation non-trad student that popped in and out of school for years due to lots of reasons. Like PsyDr said, I’m probably an outlier. I do think my scenario is a little less unusual in social work (I’ll explain why in a second). I’m an MSW, and currently in a DSW (doctorate of Social Work) program. My goal with the DSW is to teach clinical skills. I think there are several things to know in advance about teaching in social work and the profession. Social work is not everyone’s cup of tea. It’s a different perspective with pros and cons. I suggest you read about it or dip your toe in before committing to it. I was advised to do that by this very forum and I’m actually very grateful for that advice. In my case, I just really enjoyed the perspective and went in with a clear understanding of criticisms of the field.

If you want a doctorate in social work, be warned it works a little different than psychology. Most doctorate programs in social work (both the PhD and the DSW) require you to get an MSW and practice at that level for several years before you can apply to doctorate programs. Some require you to get the LCSW as well. As a result, many social work PhD/DSW programs are approximately 3-4 years (or shorter in accelerated programs — which I have negative personal opinions about). As a result, the road to a doctorate in social work is “modular” if you will. I think this is why it lends itself to a greater variety of age and situations across the “educational spectrum” ha. You have to be prepared/plan to “hop in and out” of the educational world. Most tenured positions desire the PhD, though the DSW is gaining in popularity. You can absolutely adjunct or teach full time (with a modified title) with only a masters.

In-person social work PhDs are usually a fully-funded, similar to any other PhD program. DSW programs are student paid tuition. The cost of the programs VARY GREATLY. There are some unfunded PhD programs in social work too.