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Would you start at age 35?
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I would think you'll get multiple offers. I would go to the cheapest school possible so you're underwater as little as possible. I had a few people over 40 in my class and Its a good move if you ask me.
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I agree. Go for it. The oldest person in my class was 44 years old. When we graduated, she was 48. She's doing great now.
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My class of 40 had 5 ex-teachers aged @37, 32, 30, 27 & 23 at the start. All did fine.
A teaching background and teaching credentials will open lots doors in the dental world after you finish dental school.
Word to the wise... Keep your education expenses as low as possible. Large school debt at 27 is a burden. -- Large school debt at 40 will break you.
A teaching background and teaching credentials will open lots doors in the dental world after you finish dental school.
Word to the wise... Keep your education expenses as low as possible. Large school debt at 27 is a burden. -- Large school debt at 40 will break you.
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I can't speak to dental school, but I have been accepted to medical school. I have been a high school science teacher for 19 years. I just turned 42 a couple of weeks ago.
To me, it was worth it. Ask me again in August when school starts and I take out my first student loan that will likely put me $250,000 in debt. Ask me again if I thin it is worth it when I am a resident making $10,000 a year less than I am making right now for about twice the work.
Good luck. Follow your dream. Be happy.
dsoz
To me, it was worth it. Ask me again in August when school starts and I take out my first student loan that will likely put me $250,000 in debt. Ask me again if I thin it is worth it when I am a resident making $10,000 a year less than I am making right now for about twice the work.
Good luck. Follow your dream. Be happy.
dsoz
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To make "real dentist money" you need to be a small business owner. That means you are looking at school debt + practice loan debt. You either have to buy a practice or start your own. Depending on where in the country you decide to practice will affect your ability to repay those loans. There are still parts of the country that need a dentist and you can go out and buy a practice/start your own and start fixing smiles your way from day one. There are other parts where the only jobs available that pay you enough to repay your loans and live are working for chains. The pros and cons of doing that have been discussed on this board in several threads. And then there is Southern California, which is just saturated and then some for the new grad trying to get a job there.
If you think just being a dentist and getting a job is the key to feel fulfilled in fixing teeth and making people smile, well, most dentists do not end up happy working as associates for someone else. I think with age you lose the years of flexibility of working for other doctors to gain experience, speed, figuring out which procedures you love/hate, and saving up for your next move. You need to decide sooner what your next move will be after graduation or else you will spend another 1 - 5 years job shifting before that real opportunity comes along for you.
You can also go to Dental Town and ask this question to practicing dentists to see what they think.
If you think just being a dentist and getting a job is the key to feel fulfilled in fixing teeth and making people smile, well, most dentists do not end up happy working as associates for someone else. I think with age you lose the years of flexibility of working for other doctors to gain experience, speed, figuring out which procedures you love/hate, and saving up for your next move. You need to decide sooner what your next move will be after graduation or else you will spend another 1 - 5 years job shifting before that real opportunity comes along for you.
You can also go to Dental Town and ask this question to practicing dentists to see what they think.
Sprint4
You can do it. Definitely go to least expensive school possible. Your maturity will help in private practice as well. I would plan on working, however, past the age of 62. Even with loans you will likely make more than a teacher after a few years. I am 52 and have been in practice 25 yrs. my question would be why dentistry per se..vs other health fields such as pharm, pa...
You can do it. Definitely go to least expensive school possible. Your maturity will help in private practice as well. I would plan on working, however, past the age of 62. Even with loans you will likely make more than a teacher after a few years. I am 52 and have been in practice 25 yrs. my question would be why dentistry per se..vs other health fields such as pharm, pa...
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My favorite classmates and now colleagues were older when they started dental school. Much more grounded, much more fun. I couldn't imagine it without them - go for it 
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I started dental school at 30 and ended up specializing in ortho, so I was finished at almost 37. Best thing I've ever done. You won't regret it. Just make sure that you are mindful of costs and your debt. Do it!
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At age 35, I do not think the military option is still a possibility, as 35 is the maximum recruitment age.
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What is it about dentistry that interests you?
Be open with this answer. Many of us can help you based on what you perceive to be interested in.
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Sprint, 4, go for it. When I was in dental school, some of my classmates were already in their late 30's, early 40's and we even had a 50 year old. I am 47, now and still practicing and feel better than I did when I was in my 20's and 30's. I was in dental school with other students who had careers in business, nursing and other professions and some were even Stay At Home Moms with law degrees, etc. who up and decided they wanted to go into dentistry. They are now practicing in their own offices. Age is nothing but a number. I also see now that I am wiser and stronger than I was while in dental school years ago. If I were in dental school, now, I'd probably be more focused and handle things differently. Don't look at your age as a disadvantage, ever. Go for it. It's an awesome field and you have much to choose from once you finish training. Don't worry about cost, expenses or debt. There are so many avenues to balancing all that out once you finish. Best wishes.
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Actually, it varies from branch to branch. The Air Force takes dentist up to age 42 and the limit changes almost every year due to the military having a great need.
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You are recommending someone to not consider finances when dental school can cost 250, 300 and up to 400K?
I was older when I started DS; now I am in the residency.
I never regretted my decision.
Go for it!
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I'm mad at myself for not going straight to dental school right after undergrad. I feel like I'm really behind and it's only 1 year [I'll be 23]. Besides that,
I don't think you should start dental school now for 2 reasons:
1 You will be more than 5-10 years "behind". You'll have like 13-15 less years to gain experience and earn $$ to pay off the debt.
2 You only think dentistry will be a great fit for you and said it is likely you will be satisfied. Sounds like you'll get tired of dentistry just like you are tired of the profession you have now.
Have you shadowed or worked with any dentists? Are there any other career paths that interest you?
If you have a family will they be able to manage while you dedicate so much time in school?
Whatever you decide, best wishes to you!
I don't think you should start dental school now for 2 reasons:
1 You will be more than 5-10 years "behind". You'll have like 13-15 less years to gain experience and earn $$ to pay off the debt.
2 You only think dentistry will be a great fit for you and said it is likely you will be satisfied. Sounds like you'll get tired of dentistry just like you are tired of the profession you have now.
Have you shadowed or worked with any dentists? Are there any other career paths that interest you?
If you have a family will they be able to manage while you dedicate so much time in school?
Whatever you decide, best wishes to you!
Actually I don't think age is the issue here. I started dental school at the age of 32, graduated last year, and is just finishing my first year of practice and am doing well and living a good lifestyle. I am competent, in a fit physical shape, and plan on practicing for a very long time, at least well past the age of normal retirement. So I don't think age is a key factor here.
What alarms me a bit is the fact that the OP claims to be professionally unsatisfied even though he claims to have done well and has established himself professionally. This kind of reminds me of some of my dental friends who have done well, get bored, and claim that they want to become a bodyguard or realtor. Unless you have a real convincing reason to do so, it's better to keep your existing cash flow and engage in hobbies to satisfy your intellectual curiosity instead. Dentistry is a good field, but the schooling experience is grueling, the debt steep, and the job itself demanding. Do not underestimate all of these factors for the simple factor of "boredom."
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I would highly suggest that you read my post over again. I did NOT in any way "recommend" that someone NOT consider finances. Please, the answer to the original poster was meant to be for encouragement. Life is filled with challenges and nothing is without struggle, expenses or sacrifices.
No need to. Dentistry is a good field, and working a healthy amount of time keeps ones body and mind sharp. If you already feel so badly about the field as a student the future does not bode well for you.
YES! I've heard off the wall comments by dentists that they wished they perused crazy career paths like becoming a navy seal, construction worker, or plumber... later in the day they shared with me about their business and they were doing very in dentistry (300k+). It's interesting how they have lost their objectivity after experiencing years of success.
Agreed. Add to that the fact the most dental students have never experienced other careers to really know the difference.
The grass is always greener, right............not really.
Heh... I don't get it. The only careers I've considered other than dentistry were medicine or some form of applied math (big data, financial services, etc). I wonder what the appeal is? Most likely the big bills plumbers deal out... that must mean they're rich right?... oh wait!
A general dentist making 300k+ a year is far and few between. Don't believe the hype.
This is the bottom line. Dentistry is a grind. I don't care who you are. You will NOT get rich as a dentist. If you want to get rich become a banker. Don't plan on making more than 110 to 120k / year your first few years out. It will only get worse. There is not shortage and new schools keep opening up thus pay is sure to decrease. If I had to do it over I would not have gone to dental school. When I first went it was unheard of to have a dental practice go bankrupt. Over the past 4 years I know of several practices that did. What does that tell you. If you go to an expensive school you will be looking at 3k in loan payment a month. On a 120k salary after taxes you will be left with 6k a month minus your 3k loan, minus your mortgage, utilities, car, retirement savings, health insurance, etc. etc. You may be better off as a teacher.
If I was 35 I would only go to dental school if one I had the hook up and was walking into a great practice day one, second if mommy and daddy were willing to pay tuition or I was already independently wealthy, three if I could guarantee specialty acceptance.
If none of the above apply and you want to go into health care go to medical school. Yes all my physician friends hate medicine. They work long hours but even if you don't get into a fancy specialty you can become a hospitalist, make 200k+ a year with benefits and retirement package. If you want to specialize you can almost be sure you can become and ER physician or go into Anesthesia and make 300k+ with benefits and retirement. You may get sued a few times but that comes with the territory.
If you are not set on health care then rather than taking out student loans take out a small business loan and open a coffee shop. Less time, less money output, just as successful.
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If his educational debt is going to be $158K like he's calculated, then I think the OP could venture ahead with dental school. That is a much more manageable and sane amount of debt than the new grads coming out with $300K+.
This is just my opinion...I am graduating this year and I do love dentistry. Having said that, it is definitely not quite the rosy road a lot of people make it out to be. I honestly don't know if I would do it again. The poster above is correct in a lot of ways. After jumping the 100's of BS hoops through the 4 years( dental school really flat out sucks balls, and its not the studying that bothered me), you pop out owe tons of money, have no house, no practice and its still very tough to find a job, very tough to find the right practice to buy, the places you want to live have way too many dentists, the places that don't...suck, etc. I think a lot of times if I had put just a fraction of the effort I put into dental school in other careers I could be way ahead of where I am now. Maybe, maybe not. I can tell you I owe prob less than most but tuition is rising every year and I won't be convincing many people to go to dental school. Am I happy I did it now? kind of. It is really fun sinking a high speed diamond in a tooth, and I love sticking needles in peoples faces.
I don't know... I keep reading about grads who cannot find jobs, in all fields, and that for many the job prospects will not improve even if the economy does in the future. Having said that... maybe the best option for the OP is the teaching job he currently holds. You know what they say about a bird in the hand...
It has been my experience that this isn't true. Every dentist I've shadowed has been doing extremely well. 5-25 years in practice. It may be geographical because I don't live in a economically depressed area and the housing collapse didn't effect my area too much. This wasn't "hype" because I formed my opinion off of empirical evidence.
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Unfortunately for us J2OS is correct on this one. Your location may an outlier. The average dentist who owns his own practice pockets around $200k, so if you average in the masses of dentists who work corporately you can imagine what %tile you'd have to be to make $300k+.
To the OP: Being that you've got work experience and are mature, I think you'll appreciate dentistry that much more.
It cracks me up when my younger classmates complain about dental school. Can it be challenging? Sure it can. Can it be unfair at times? Yep. But they have absolutely zero perspective. To me, dental school is a welcome challenge to the daily grind of a cubical job with 8 bosses. Doing monotonous work that just about anyone can do.
The opportunity to be your own boss, master a science (and art), and truly impact peoples lives is a reality of this profession. Again, it's all about perspective, and a few of the above posts show little.
Take this quote:
"I think a lot of times if I had put just a fraction of the effort I put into dental school in other careers I could be way ahead of where I am now."
I can assure this person that many people work just as hard, and they will never have the income potential of a dentist. A few will, but most won't. There is a reason this profession will put you in the top 10, or even 5 percentage of incomes.
I'm in the top 10% of my class, and I have had many more stressful, long, and anxiety producing days in the workplace. It's not even close.
And, I guarantee you that as a dentist you will have an easier time finding a job than just about any other career. Some sectors are flat out begging for us....
"But I won't become rich, and I can't practice in SOCAL, yata, yata, yata." Then choose something else if those are your goals.
It cracks me up when my younger classmates complain about dental school. Can it be challenging? Sure it can. Can it be unfair at times? Yep. But they have absolutely zero perspective. To me, dental school is a welcome challenge to the daily grind of a cubical job with 8 bosses. Doing monotonous work that just about anyone can do.
The opportunity to be your own boss, master a science (and art), and truly impact peoples lives is a reality of this profession. Again, it's all about perspective, and a few of the above posts show little.
Take this quote:
"I think a lot of times if I had put just a fraction of the effort I put into dental school in other careers I could be way ahead of where I am now."
I can assure this person that many people work just as hard, and they will never have the income potential of a dentist. A few will, but most won't. There is a reason this profession will put you in the top 10, or even 5 percentage of incomes.
I'm in the top 10% of my class, and I have had many more stressful, long, and anxiety producing days in the workplace. It's not even close.
And, I guarantee you that as a dentist you will have an easier time finding a job than just about any other career. Some sectors are flat out begging for us....
"But I won't become rich, and I can't practice in SOCAL, yata, yata, yata." Then choose something else if those are your goals.
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You left out the important 3 word sentence that followed ha ha "Maybe, maybe not" It just really makes you wonder when your buddies that never graduated college are driving range rovers and taking multiple vacations to the caribbean every year!
Maybe I'm straying off topic. As I said I love a lot of things about dentistry, and if you think you could get out owing 150K or so go for it. I'm a little older, not 40's but if you will always wonder why you didn't do it, then do it, age isn't a factor!
Maybe I'm straying off topic. As I said I love a lot of things about dentistry, and if you think you could get out owing 150K or so go for it. I'm a little older, not 40's but if you will always wonder why you didn't do it, then do it, age isn't a factor!
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The only way you get the benefits of dentistry as a career over something else like teaching is if you own your own practice. When you have your own practice, you won't get downsized, you are the big boss, you set your vacation schedule, you decide what benefits to give yourself, etc. Having your own practice means being a business owner. This concept of "owning a business = real dentist money" was clear to only a very small percent of those graduating from dental school. Most graduated knowing that the DDS means you have great earning potential, but had no idea where you were going to earn that money.
You can be a business owner in any field. The barrier to entry to becoming the business owner of a dental practice is high because you have to be a licensed dentist. But the cost to set up or buy a dental practice is also high. That's why the debt load you bring to the start of your private practice career is making it hard for those with $300K+ debt to realistically be able to consider buying or starting a practice, especially if they think they are never going to leave Southern California. Owning a business comes with a lot of non-dental headaches and a lot of responsibilities. Since we are not prepared for this in school, you are thrown in and go into "sink or survive" mode. Most survive, but for those moments when you think you are sinking, you look at your friends working in other fields and think their jobs just seem so much better - show up, do your job, go home, paycheck automatically deposited every 2 weeks. Take exactly 14 vacation days a year, make retirement contributions, select Plan A or Plan B for your medical benefits. Clock in, clock out.
If you don't buy an existing practice or start your own practice, you go work for someone else. Someone else = another dentist or a corporate dental chain. This is where the suck cycle starts. Very few associateships work out. Some do, but it's not common. You are bound by the owner's rules, their treatment philosophy, their patient base. Working for another dentist is hard because you look at your boss and think "I could be doing the same exact thing but doing it for myself."
At the end of the day, it's just a job like any other job. It's a cool job only if you really love teeth. But the humans attached to those teeth can make it a stressful day or a happy day.
You can be a business owner in any field. The barrier to entry to becoming the business owner of a dental practice is high because you have to be a licensed dentist. But the cost to set up or buy a dental practice is also high. That's why the debt load you bring to the start of your private practice career is making it hard for those with $300K+ debt to realistically be able to consider buying or starting a practice, especially if they think they are never going to leave Southern California. Owning a business comes with a lot of non-dental headaches and a lot of responsibilities. Since we are not prepared for this in school, you are thrown in and go into "sink or survive" mode. Most survive, but for those moments when you think you are sinking, you look at your friends working in other fields and think their jobs just seem so much better - show up, do your job, go home, paycheck automatically deposited every 2 weeks. Take exactly 14 vacation days a year, make retirement contributions, select Plan A or Plan B for your medical benefits. Clock in, clock out.
If you don't buy an existing practice or start your own practice, you go work for someone else. Someone else = another dentist or a corporate dental chain. This is where the suck cycle starts. Very few associateships work out. Some do, but it's not common. You are bound by the owner's rules, their treatment philosophy, their patient base. Working for another dentist is hard because you look at your boss and think "I could be doing the same exact thing but doing it for myself."
At the end of the day, it's just a job like any other job. It's a cool job only if you really love teeth. But the humans attached to those teeth can make it a stressful day or a happy day.
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Thanks for this post. I had such a hard day with patients today and I really don't think I laughed at all today due to being so stressed out and tired. Thanks for making me laugh. I can now regroup and start over fresh for Monday. Some people have NO idea how hard our jobs can be, but we keep coming back no matter how bad it can be at times.
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Wow, excellent post. Right on the money, literally.
Great post. The only thing I disagree with is that you have to love teeth. Physicians don't have to love vaginas or buttholes.
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I used to teach high school math. I started dental school at 32. Doing a three year residency. No regrets.
I just got in and am starting this year ... was also a teach but for 8 years....turning 32 this christmas....don't worry about debt. You live once and there is no point regretting it when you are 50 and cannot do it any more. Your debt will be paid off and you can merge it with your professional buisiness loan so you won't even notice it. If you buy a practice for 1M or 1.5M that is bringing in good money what is 1.8M comparatively....not much worse on your payments. If you start from scratch go to a developing area so you will have a niche market and you will be fine. Don't let people discourage you. Just don't aim to be in a saturated area obviously....and be good at what you do and the patients will flock to you. Just calculate your future net earnings and compare them to being a teacher at 60k per year. That will show you it is worth the 300k debt....also you are likely to practice longer than you would teach for since you sincerely enjoy doing it.
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The grass is always greener... i come from the exact opposite situation. My dad owns a fairly successful construction company, makes more than most dentists, sets his own schedule, and weathered the storm of a down economy well.
However, growing up, he always told me to go for higher educaiton. Even though he sets his own schedule and hours and makes good money, other factors outweigh the pluses. The demanding physical labor has taken a toll on his body, managing 50+ employees is often difficult and stressful, being at the mercy of deadlines to builders, owners, and other contractors gets old.
Moral of the story... he felt that doctors and dentists who own their own practices could make comparable money, without the demands of labor, and stress of managing such a large company.
This is the best advice i have read in a long time. This applies to my dad... even though he is not satisfied in his job, it provides a great cash flow for him to do things he loves and satisfy him. My family goes on several, nice vacations a year. He goes hunting, fishing, snowboarding whenever he wants. He goes to all his kids sports events, dance recitals, and other functions. He was an assistant coach for all my sports teams growing up. He is active in church functions and volunteers regularly. The point is... if he was working for someone else, or didn't make the money he does... he would be miserable in all aspects of life: job, family, and leisure. To enjoy all three is very rare, so if you sacrifice job satisfaction to be happy in the other parts of your life, often it is worth it for people.
I'd shy away from empty rhetoric like "if I can do it, you can do it too," or stuff like"don't let age be a factor." IMHO, the only way to justify undertaking such a serious endeavor such as dental school is knowing, without a doubt, why you are doing it, and ascertaining that the reason is a rock-solid one. You should only fight a war if you know why you are doing it, because when the going gets rough (and it will), its the only thing that will pull you through. At some point in time age will be a factor. I think when I enrolled in dental in dental school at 32, it's just about as late as I judge it can be as "worthy" of the effort. I don't favor blind urgings.
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