Yale

[dochopefull]

I hope I am not hallucinating....but is it true that Yale does not look at undergraduate gpa when selecting students for their program??! If this is true, how do they evaluate and choose good candidates??

Thanks

D

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[ramonaquimby]

I hope I am not hallucinating....but is it true that Yale does not look at undergraduate gpa when selecting students for their program??!

not true at all.

 

[liverotcod]

Unfortunately, you're hallucinating.

 

[willthatsall]

I think it is true, which would explain why Yale's average GPA is only 2.8.

 

[dochopefull]

Actually, I just read it in my princeton review "162 best medical schools" that gpa is optional...

I'm a bit confused now....

 

[unfrozencaveman]

Optional? I'm so lost and intrigued by this....

 

[liverotcod]

From here:

In evaluating candidates, the committee takes into consideration many factors including academic record, MCAT scores, record of activities and accomplishments, recommendations from premedical committees and individual science teachers, and personal interviews.

 

[stifler]

"The policy of the School of Medicine regarding nonacademic considerations in the admissions process is available upon request from the Office of Admissions."

 

[amnesia]

Yale does not release average undergraduate GPAs to the media, so willthatsall is wrong to make any assumption.

 

[ElKapitan]

Yale does not release average undergraduate GPAs to the media, so willthatsall is wrong to make any assumption.

This entire conversation is giving me a headache. I was going to address my rather average GPA in my supplemental application. Now I don't know what to think.

 

[dajimmers]

So when the MSAR says Overall 3.75, Science 3.76, they're just making it up?

 

[rugirlie]

Yale does not release average undergraduate GPAs to the media, so willthatsall is wrong to make any assumption.

Dude, I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic! lol Man, pre-meds can't even detect that...

 

[amnesia]

I was at a Yale admissions session two weeks ago. One thing they stress is extracurricular above all else because 90% of all applicants have the excellent GPA and SATs 700+. Now, they also said they don't release GPAs to the media because it's not as important as what you know and that is fosters unnecessary competition.

 

[beponychick]

One of my professors went to Yale med and he stressed that they try to look for an "atypical" candidate. I think a person who has great grades and MCATs and not much else will have a very slim shot of getting in. Im not sure though.

 

[dochopefull]

so who is right and who is wrong?

 

[amnesia]

Essentially, Yale looks for kids with green hair and those who can turn water into wine.

 

[liverotcod]

My quote from the Yale admissions site makes it 100% clear, I should think: Yale looks at academic records as a component of their selection process, just like every other school everywhere.

Some posters on this thread seem to be confusing Yale undergrad admissions with med admissions. But even that is irrelevant. Yale uses high school academic performance as a component for undergrad admissions.

I must say, though, that "Who is right and who is wrong" is a bit of a meaningless question. That's what you have to decide. Anyone who answered would naturally reply "I'm right and those other posters are wrong."

Finally, if you're really concerned, just call the admissions office. I'm sure they can answer all of your questions right off, and then you can post the final word here.

 

[DrBowtie]

Academic record = GPA, courseload etc.
So obviously it is taken into consideration.

 

[TheFlash]

it's so funny reading that Yale looks for atypical candidates. that must be why they had the highest percentage of dermatology candidates of any school's match that i saw in 2004. yes, 2 years in americorps and then suddenly you decide you'll be a pimple popper for the rest of your life. admissions is utter BS.

 

[ablumoon]

dude, don't diss derm

 

[TheFlash]

dude, don't diss derm

what, are you gonna threaten to give me a laser peel?

the point was not to diss dermatology, but to the fact that many "diverse" applicants who go to Yale end up aiming for some of the cushiest specialties instead of using their so called-diversity to expand the horizon of medicine in some way. same could be said for many schools.

 

[liverotcod]

what, are you gonna threaten to give me a laser peel?

I can see it now, the League of Super Specialists

Doctor Derm, with her Moderately Intense Laser!
Doctor Gas, with his Butt-Cam of Doom!
Doctor Onc, with his Dripping Chemotherapeutic Needles!
Doctor Rads, with her X-Ray Vision and Terrifying Feline Sidekick, Scanner the Cat!

 

[MollyMalone]

I can see it now, the League of Super Specialists

Doctor Derm, with her Moderately Intense Laser!
Doctor Gas, with his Butt-Cam of Doom!
Doctor Onc, with his Dripping Chemotherapeutic Needles!
Doctor Rads, with her X-Ray Vision and Terrifying Feline Sidekick, Scanner the Cat!

Dude, you made me spit out my soda!

 

[ablumoon]

in 2004 they did have 12 matches in derm, but last year they only had 5. i tihnk it really depends on the class, some of the applicants may have been older and felt that they couldn't handle some of the more 'intense' and time-demanding specialities, like surgery specialities or whatever. moreover, derm is going to be in huge demand, especially in the upcoming years, considering the ozone is thinning and baby boomers are getting closer to retirement age (and will want to look better). theres also a lot of interesing new stuff going on in terms of research in derm, hell i dont know about you, but looking good is important to me, so id want a great skin doctor when im older

 

[Nakhrewali]

in 2004 they did have 12 matches in derm, but last year they only had 5. i tihnk it really depends on the class, some of the applicants may have been older and felt that they couldn't handle some of the more 'intense' and time-demanding specialities, like surgery specialities or whatever. moreover, derm is going to be in huge demand, especially in the upcoming years, considering the ozone is thinning and baby boomers are getting closer to retirement age (and will want to look better). theres also a lot of interesing new stuff going on in terms of research in derm, hell i dont know about you, but looking good is important to me, so id want a great skin doctor when im older

Out of a class of 100, 12 matches = 12% and that's a "HUGE" dermatology match. Most schools are usually lucky to match 3% of their candidates in derm every year. So it doesn't make sense that a lot of top schools like Yale, Harvard, etc. match in derm when the whole premise of their selection process is to pick "influential leaders in medicine."

I've been to several dermatologists myself and I'm not fairly impressed by the nature of their work. One in particular put me on a cocktail of drugs and hoped that something would work for me. Yeah... it was just mayhem after that. Sure they're necessary in this day and age when vanity/superficiality is important and skin cancer is on the rise, but maybe they should have their own specialty schooling so that they're really well-trained. But that's just my two cents.

 

[sven]

So it doesn't make sense that a lot of top schools like Yale, Harvard, etc. match in derm when the whole premise of their selection process is to pick "influential leaders in medicine."
QUOTE]

Actually it makes a lot of sense. If you pick those with the potential to be "influential leaders in medicine," they'll also be competitive enough to match into competitive, lifestyle-friendly specialties like derm in significant numbers. A large percentage of graduates from these schools (something like 20-25%) still choose to go into academic medicine. Also, it's not like there aren't "influential leaders" in derm, even though the field has a high private practice percentage.

 

[PrincetonRocks]

Schools pick applicants who not only survive, but also excel in med school and in the practice of medicine. GPA and MCAT scores may not be perfect indicators of how well an applicant will do in medical school, but they are good indicators. Strong MCAT scores tend to correlate with good board scores....one cannot practice medicine if one fails the USMLE. A high GPA is indicative of good study habits. Extracurriculars in addition to a full course work shows good interpersonal skills, good time management, and strong leadership abilities. All of these factors come into play for med school admissions. Remember, the practice of medicine is more than just "heart." There is no excuse for a low GPA, and there is certainly being a "bad test taker" is not a valid excuse also (afterall, you've chosen a field where tests and standardized tests are in abundance).

 

[Nakhrewali]

So it doesn't make sense that a lot of top schools like Yale, Harvard, etc. match in derm when the whole premise of their selection process is to pick "influential leaders in medicine."
QUOTE]

Actually it makes a lot of sense. If you pick those with the potential to be "influential leaders in medicine," they'll also be competitive enough to match into competitive, lifestyle-friendly specialties like derm in significant numbers. A large percentage of graduates from these schools (something like 20-25%) still choose to go into academic medicine. Also, it's not like there aren't "influential leaders" in derm, even though the field has a high private practice percentage.

Well of COURSE, they have the potential to be influential leaders in medicine, but the point here is that they ultimately are not. Are you trying to convince me that dermatologists across the nation are serious influential leaders in medicine? That's semi-bogus. Of course they've performed well enough in school to match into a competitive, lifestyle-friendly specialties like derm...but please. That doesn't qualify as an influential leader in my book.

 

[TheFlash]

So it doesn't make sense that a lot of top schools like Yale, Harvard, etc. match in derm when the whole premise of their selection process is to pick "influential leaders in medicine."
QUOTE]

Actually it makes a lot of sense. If you pick those with the potential to be "influential leaders in medicine," they'll also be competitive enough to match into competitive, lifestyle-friendly specialties like derm in significant numbers. A large percentage of graduates from these schools (something like 20-25%) still choose to go into academic medicine. Also, it's not like there aren't "influential leaders" in derm, even though the field has a high private practice percentage.

you're missing the big picture. while yale claims to choose "atypical applicants" (thereby trying to pick future leaders in medicine), they end up failling in the respect that their class is full of private practice/specialty gunners like every other school in the country. admissions criteria is ultra suspect, especially when you see the match lists at many so-called "top schools." yale, you're matriculants aren't that special, they're like everyone else. sorry to burst your bubble, guys. if you wanted to save the world, 99% of the time you wouldn't go into derm.

 

[sven]

you're missing the big picture. while yale claims to choose "atypical applicants" (thereby trying to pick future leaders in medicine), they end up failling in the respect that their class is full of private practice/specialty gunners like every other school in the country. admissions criteria is ultra suspect, especially when you see the match lists at many so-called "top schools." yale, you're matriculants aren't that special, they're like everyone else. sorry to burst your bubble, guys. if you wanted to save the world, 99% of the time you wouldn't go into derm.

I think that you misunderstand my point.

First off, I don't think that Yale's claiming that it's students are unique or somehow exempt from the pressures to specialize and to earn a good income. Rather, they are willing to bet on candidates with unusual profiles -- as compared to some other similarly ranked schools -- because they believe that these candidates have the potential to become good doctors. And they believe and hope that some of these will become true humanitarians and/or leaders in academic medicine. It's ridiculously naive to assume you can pick a talented class and not have a significant number of students go for the competitive, lifestyle-friendly specialties. Trends in the physician workforce are such that young doctors are increasingly seeking shorter hours and more flexible schedules so that they can spend more time with their families and on other passions in life. And yes, many people -- even those with "unusual profiles" -- will prefer more money to less money.

But despite all of this, Yale does manage to have one of the highest percentages of its graduates go into academic medicine. And from the Yale website re the 2005 Match: "Angoff also noted that this year's graduates are bucking a national trend by choosing residencies in generalist fields–43 students chose internal medicine, primary care or pediatrics" -- so no, not everyone winds up doing derm. No Yale's not unique in terms of the people that it gets. All schools like to trumpet their "special" features because ultimately they have to sell themselves to candidates, but advertising aside I don't think that anyone at Yale would be stupid enough to tell you that it's people walk on water or some s*it like that. You're really not bursting anyone's bubble. Part of their mission is to produce leaders, and they happen to do it a just a little bet better than a number of other schools. And there are certainly a number of schools out there that probably do it a little bit better than Yale.

And c'mon, guys. Some of your peers will choose to go into derm. I personally have no interest in derm, but they're not gonna be fake doctors. They're not all gonna be money grubbers and glorified pimple poppers. Show some professional respect -- because chances are that somewhere down the line you'll be calling in some of these guy and gals for consults for your patients. And yes, there are important leaders in derm just like in all other medical fields. And, shockingly, some even have ethical and humanitarian interests.

 

[TheFlash]

point taken. i'm not picking on derm. i'm glad you agree that serving 2 years in americorps or studying voodoo medicine in haiti (either of which will guarantee you a yale interview) does not exclude you from choosing a cushy specialty with a great lifestyle and limited research potential. and i'm not calling out yale specifically-- rather large academic medical schools who end up popping out tons of future private practioners. you'll always have people interested in lifestyle specialties, regardless of where you go to school. i just see it as a wasted opportunity. if you're at one of the foremost academic centers in the world with tons of research grants funded by MY tax dollars (i.e. yale), i'd wish you to at least initially be inclined to do something more than laissez-faire private practice prescribing rogaine.

i see you're going to yale next year. it figures a premed would get offended. i didn't mean to offend you, it's just a clash of opinions. end of my hijacking this thread.

 

[CerealBox]

ugh...

I haven't posted in a while, and I don't feel like writing anything long and drawn out... but I just wanted to mention that cosmetic derm and pimple popping is NOT all dermatologists too.

Spend time with an academic derm for a day. It's complex and interesting stuff... It is the organ that gives you a lot of first clues to internal problems.. etc etc.

Just watch who you put down. Specialties aren't all black and white.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

ugh...

I haven't posted in a while, and I don't feel like writing anything long and drawn out... but I just wanted to mention that cosmetic derm and pimple popping is NOT all dermatologists too.

Spend time with an academic derm for a day. It's complex and interesting stuff... It is the organ that gives you a lot of first clues to internal problems.. etc etc.

Just watch who you put down. Specialties aren't all black and white.

True that! Aren't these people knocking on specialties being a bit presumptious? Come now. Try knocking derm to an attending and see your self getting smacked.