Yet another new pharmacy school...

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PharmDstudent said:
She's feening for "more" pharmacy schools... big time- so much so that she can't even use whatever brain cells that are left in her head to spell "more" correctly. It's like she's can only "roar" the word "moar".

It's like a vampire screaming "MEET" or "BLUD" or something.

Or it's like their brain has left the building, and their greed and instincts have taken over.

How 'bout that? Does it work for you?
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Indeed. ;)
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PharmDstudent said:
She's feening for "more" pharmacy schools... big time- so much so that she can't even use whatever brain cells that are left in her head to spell "more" correctly. It's like she's can only "roar" the word "moar".

It's like a vampire screaming "MEET" or "BLUD" or something.

Or it's like their brain has left the building, and their greed and instincts have taken over.

How 'bout that? Does it work for you?
Click to expand...

lol

i maybe stepping in controversial waters but this is my insight:

The proliferation of all these schools will continue to exist until the pharmacy profession is no longer perceived as being more lucrative than the efforts needed to obtain the degree, or that in general the job market becomes so saturated that financing such an education would take an enormous risk.

Anyway all this demand and $$$ in terms of professions is more or less emphasized in certain cultures. In East Asian and Indian/South Asian families many parents emphasize their children to enter into fields that are the most financially lucrative/in demand. On the other hand this will cause a problem when some of these families want ALL of their children to only go to pharmacy school, medical school, etc. It's very shortsighted thinking because NOT everyone can be a healthcare professional. You just can't have everyone become doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. because thats not how a functioning society works. Some people just can't expect every member of their family to become pharmacists, that is just overkill. not sure if anyone is getting at my point
 
Well...who is going to organize this protest against more school opening? Did anyone read the most recent AJHP? It acutally addressed our concern about oversupply of pharmacist. At least now the cat is out of the bag. THERE IS NO SHORTAGE. A OVER SUPPLY MAY BE EXPECTED IN THE NEXT 5 TO 10 YRS. By the way...I have no issues..I just hated Clinical pharmacy!
 
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http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/pharmacy/

http://www.ashp.org/import/news/HealthSystemPharmacyNews/newsarticle.aspx?id=3052

There is currently a moderate shortfall of pharmacists. Vacancy rates of 8 percent and higher that were common in the early 2000s have moderated. In 2004 the overall vacancy rate was approximately 5 percent, which is equivalent to a shortfall of approximately 10,400 pharmacists.

Considering that there are 10,400 pharmacist vacancy (even though the report does NOT take into consideration of the recent economic downfalls or this years graduating class), and that this years graduating class is about 9.5k. . . , how do we sustain future pharmacy schools opening and current pharmacy schools increasing class sizes? Keep in mind that a lot of these jobs are also in suburbs and graveyard shifts.
 
Yeah...I'm wondering how many pharmacists have elected to stay in the workforce rather than retire because of the status of their 401/403's. Lots of older folk didn't shift over to bonds/cash funds leading into their retirement years and ended up getting burned.

We're headed toward a surplus, the wild cards are: how many are going to retire once the economy recovers, how many job openings will pop up once the economy roars ahead, changes in federal healthcare policy (popular buzzword: universal healthcare), how will female part-timers augment the workforce, and how will JC, AMA, & other agencies/groups alter the domain of the pharmacist.
 
1234girl said:
Well...who is going to organize this protest against more school opening? Did anyone read the most recent AJHP? It acutally addressed our concern about oversupply of pharmacist. At least now the cat is out of the bag. THERE IS NO SHORTAGE. A OVER SUPPLY MAY BE EXPECTED IN THE NEXT 5 TO 10 YRS. By the way...I have no issues..I just hated Clinical pharmacy!
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No, I haven't read it or have heard people talk about it. Could you post the link of the articule or scan to PDF format and post it here? Thanks!!
 
RNtoPharmD said:
No, I haven't read it or have heard people talk about it. Could you post the link of the articule or scan to PDF format and post it here? Thanks!!
Click to expand...

I provided the links in the posting below his.
 
D'Youville sounds more like Do-You-ville. I just got accepted to Texas A&M School of Pharmacy Kingsville. Sounds like a decent name I would guess with the A&M in the name.
 
I would venture to say that pharmacy will become more competitive and residencies will become longer. Also pharmacy will become more specialized and will expand to more patient interaction. Like other health professions, it is much more competitive since so many students live and breath MCAT and it is difficult to get into medical school. I myself did not study one day for the PCAT. I believe it may be harder to get a job in the future due to saturation of the market but I think the salary may stay the same because large retail chains see a lot of money in selling drugs. Also, the baby-boomer generation is coming on fast and will need lots of health care.
 
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in a capitalistic society, market forces shape everything. The golden rule of supply and demand holds true. In my opinion, no lobbying of any sort will see a halt in proliferation of these diploma mills.

secondly, pharmacy as a profession is not very cohesive. There is too much role confusion and in-fighting between different pharmacy areas. Further, pharmacists are totally insulated by their six figure salaries to a point that they dont see beyond their noses.

This is a bubble, it will soon burst. Only then will pharmacy come together, reorganize, and hopefully rebuild. This is coming in the next 5-10 years.
 
eightball said:
in a capitalistic society, market forces shape everything. The golden rule of supply and demand holds true. In my opinion, no lobbying of any sort will see a halt in proliferation of these diploma mills.

secondly, pharmacy as a profession is not very cohesive. There is too much role confusion and in-fighting between different pharmacy areas. Further, pharmacists are totally insulated by their six figure salaries to a point that they dont see beyond their noses.

This is a bubble, it will soon burst. Only then will pharmacy come together, reorganize, and hopefully rebuild. This is coming in the next 5-10 years.
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only the smart ones will be able to see this coming.

because six figure jobs just don't pop up out of thin air just because all these schools are opening up (besides working for these diploma mills of course)
 
eightball said:
in a capitalistic society, market forces shape everything. The golden rule of supply and demand holds true. In my opinion, no lobbying of any sort will see a halt in proliferation of these diploma mills.

secondly, pharmacy as a profession is not very cohesive. There is too much role confusion and in-fighting between different pharmacy areas. Further, pharmacists are totally insulated by their six figure salaries to a point that they dont see beyond their noses.

This is a bubble, it will soon burst. Only then will pharmacy come together, reorganize, and hopefully rebuild. This is coming in the next 5-10 years.
Click to expand...

very wise. i agree with you 100%. i do not recommend anyone go into pharmacy. it is indeed a dying profession imo.
 
Praziquantel86 said:
I like how SurveyMonkey is the method used to gather data.

When is the survey that proves they're unnecessary and unwanted coming out?
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Nothing wrong with survey monkey as a tool - it even allows you to use skip logic.

Surveys are all about wording the question correctly - going through validation, linguistics, rewording to assess internal consistency etc

Scientifically valuable surveys are ridiculously hard to get right due to the intricacies of survey design.
 
This is my favorite quote from the pre-pharmacy forum...

"This post may be valid...I had a 2.7 pharmcas gpa, zero volunteer/experience, 55 pcat score, and solid letter of recs. I was accepted to 3 schools and waiting on one more (Xula)."

It is official, anyone can get into pharmacy school. This profession is hosed.
 
BavarianMWE46 said:
This is my favorite quote from the pre-pharmacy forum...

"This post may be valid...I had a 2.7 pharmcas gpa, zero volunteer/experience, 55 pcat score, and solid letter of recs. I was accepted to 3 schools and waiting on one more (Xula)."

It is official, anyone can get into pharmacy school. This profession is hosed.
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wow are you serious? How can that person get into a pharmacy school with that kind of status?
 
meteor2 said:
wow are you serious? How can that person get into a pharmacy school with that kind of status?
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Was this the "don't lost (sic) hope" thread? I think I pressed further and found there were extenuating circumstances and the guy carried a 3.7-4.0 for the last half of undergrad accounting for the GPA. Don't know about the pcat. His acceptances weren't even to new schools....I think he listed them as Midwestern CCP & glendale + washington.
 
The profession's standards are probably tanking as we speak.

There are students at my school who expect to cruise through pharmacy education by skipping classes and cramming for exams the night before. Students at risk of flunking one of our P1 classes went to the dean to express their concerns and suddenly the dean has "reason" to believe everyone will pull through. Is that supposed to mean our final is going to get dumbed down?

Personally, I'd rather earn a B in that class and be tested to the standard the professor honestly feels is appropriate than to have a bunch of slackers get the entire course "curved" with a dumbed down final and earn an A.

In addition to this BS, the professor in front of class made it clear on many occasions he expects more than what he is getting from the class and the response to this was for the class president to contact the dept chair and send out a mass email to all students basically stating the professor is on "notice" for an attitude problem.

I guess pharmacy students want to turn the Pharm-D degree into a diploma-mill joke. I think the attrition rate needs to jump to around 20-30% to clean up the quality of graduates.
 
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Fuzzychickens said:
The profession's standards are probably tanking as we speak.

There are students at my school who expect to cruise through pharmacy education by skipping classes and cramming for exams the night before.
Click to expand...

This part here has been going on since time immemorial.
 
Fuzzychickens said:
The profession's standards are probably tanking as we speak.

There are students at my school who expect to cruise through pharmacy education by skipping classes and cramming for exams the night before. Students at risk of flunking one of our P1 classes went to the dean to express their concerns and suddenly the dean has "reason" to believe everyone will pull through. Is that supposed to mean our final is going to get dumbed down?

Personally, I'd rather earn a B in that class and be tested to the standard the professor honestly feels is appropriate than to have a bunch of slackers get the entire course "curved" with a dumbed down final and earn an A.
Click to expand...

I don't think people crammint for tests is a harbinger of the end of pharmacy. Get a grip.
 
I rarely went to many classes. If all the professor does is read a powerpoint presentation to you (and many did), I see no reason why a person would go to lecture. It's a waste of everyone's time and it's an insult to my intelligence to expect me to sit there and be read to. I can read the stuff on my own at home.

What even worse are the *******s that put little fill in the blanks in their notes to "make" you go. That's so lame. Your teaching skills are just as vacuous, yet you force everyone to come in and listen to you read powerpoints to us, anyway. Honestly, I can only think of a few examples of profs in pharmacy school that didn't use lame methods. Our med chem teacher was one hell of a teacher. Our hem/onc professor taught via Socratic method (which is the best method). If he can do it, they can do it. But, they chose to make use essentially memorize powerpoint slides...and that's fine...but if that all you care about actually teaching the material, I obliged in kind by not having my time wasted, either.
 
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Praziquantel86 said:
I don't think people crammint for tests is a harbinger of the end of pharmacy. Get a grip.
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Actually it is bad for pharmacy because these same people miscalculated the time needed understand and apply the concepts taught in class - then they want to be rewarded for this and have the class dumbed down so they can pass and it looks like they'll get their way at my school.

It would be a non-issue if the school flunked them because they earned an F - but the dean and the chair are apparently caving into this stupid sense of entitlement to a Pharm-D degree.

Cramming is perfectly fine if you are still capable of learning the material and passing the exams. If not and you still cram - then flunking should be the result.
 
Fuzzychickens said:
The profession's standards are probably tanking as we speak.

There are students at my school who expect to cruise through pharmacy education by skipping classes and cramming for exams the night before. Students at risk of flunking one of our P1 classes went to the dean to express their concerns and suddenly the dean has "reason" to believe everyone will pull through. Is that supposed to mean our final is going to get dumbed down?

Personally, I'd rather earn a B in that class and be tested to the standard the professor honestly feels is appropriate than to have a bunch of slackers get the entire course "curved" with a dumbed down final and earn an A.

In addition to this BS, the professor in front of class made it clear on many occasions he expects more than what he is getting from the class and the response to this was for the class president to contact the dept chair and send out a mass email to all students basically stating the professor is on "notice" for an attitude problem.

I guess pharmacy students want to turn the Pharm-D degree into a diploma-mill joke. I think the attrition rate needs to jump to around 20-30% to clean up the quality of graduates.
Click to expand...

i skipped hundreds of classes, they arent worth it, all they do is read powerpoint slides...i can read those at home

i also just crammed the night b4 (except for math class, i practice thru out the week, and pharmaceutics class, which was unncessarily made ridicously hard)

i came out with 3.6, never got lower than b (id take tests in bout 15 mins, 20 tops, only math ones took longer as i doubled checked those), and i feel like im a qualified retail rph
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
I rarely went to many classes. If all the professor does is read a powerpoint presentation to you (and many did), I see no reason why a person would go to lecture. It's a waste of everyone's time and it's an insult to my intelligence to expect me to sit there and be read to. I can read the stuff on my own at home.

What even worse are the *******s that put little fill in the blanks in their notes to "make" you go. That's so lame. Your teaching skills are just as vacuous, yet you force everyone to come in and listen to you read powerpoints to us, anyway. Honestly, I can only think of a few examples of profs in pharmacy school that didn't use lame methods. Our med chem teacher was one hell of a teacher. Our hem/onc professor taught via Socratic method (which is the best method). If he can do it, they can do it. But, they chose to make use essentially memorize powerpoint slides...and that's fine...but if that all you care about actually teaching the material, I obliged in kind by not having my time wasted, either.
Click to expand...

Funny you mention Socratic method. It happens to be the way our Medicinal Chemistry professor conducts lectures and this approach led to his supposed "attitude" problem. I guess engaging students in conversation and pointing out failures in logic is an "attitude" problem.

Apparently they want him to do what some of the other teachers do - power points that they read off, followed by a study guide. One teacher actually would release a study guide for her section from which exam question directly copied and pasted into her sections on the exam.

Professors who have the guts to uphold standards and engage the class in the subject at hand have my respect. The rest seem too chicken$%* to actually challenge their students.
 
prevacid said:
i skipped hundreds of classes, they arent worth it, all they do is read powerpoint slides...i can read those at home

i also just crammed the night b4 (except for math class, i practice thru out the week, and pharmaceutics class, which was unncessarily made ridicously hard)

i came out with 3.6, never got lower than b (id take tests in bout 15 mins, 20 tops, only math ones took longer as i doubled checked those), and i feel like im a qualified retail rph
Click to expand...

My point isn't so much the act of cramming itself. It's the fact that students who cram and flunk are looking to blame everything but themselves.

My study habits are actually the reverse of yours. I cram for math courses because it always came naturally, but most everything else I would study over time. Cramming for me is perfectly acceptable for math, but I only have myself to blame if I try it in other courses and fail.
 
...and in wanders the not-yet-in-med-school student wondering what pharmacists do. i swear this happens in every thread.


expanded roles...example would be the JC regulation putting pharmacists in the ED, though most institutions didn't adjust their workflow in time to appropriately use their services.
 
Obama admin. is planning to require everyone to have health insurance (according to the news anyway). This may mean lots of new patients. How do you guys think this will affect the demand for pharmacists?

It seems the Obama admin. isn't doing socialized health care but establishing a government health plan that will compete with the others.
 
powertoold said:
Obama admin. is planning to require everyone to have health insurance (according to the news anyway). This may mean lots of new patients. How do you guys think this will affect the demand for pharmacists?

It seems the Obama admin. isn't doing socialized health care but establishing a government health plan that will compete with the others.
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Demand will skyrocket...as will taxes...
 
StaviZFingerZ said:
Ehh.. it's ok. As long as you're willing to move to rural America, you may still find a job..

[/sarcasm]
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But according to the young uns... supply and demand will play out. They will stop opening schools once pharmacy salaries drop to 40k.
 
Lets ignore the fact that there are already three other NC pharmacy schools... The one for Chicago speaks for itself.
 
I went to UNC Greensboro for my freshman year and heard about a possible new pharmacy school from a professor. It pains me to see that they are getting serious (...yea, I really did not like that school). It would be better if UNC-Chapel Hill opened up a partnership program with UNCG in the same way they have some students take classes at Elizabeth State University in eastern NC.
 
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Aznfarmerboi said:
But according to the young uns... supply and demand will play out. They will stop opening schools once pharmacy salaries drop to 40k.
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should i become a nurse or physician assistant next?
 
It's nearly impossible for salaries to go down to $40 k per year. Absolutely no one would invest 8 years of education and dish out 100 k to attain a professional degree to make that kind of money. The PharmD degree would be a joke as compared to other health care professionals with doctorate degrees such as dentists and physicians....these individuals make 6 figures and deserve it; why should pharmacists ever make 40 k? Lol, just the thought of that sends shivers down my spine. :thumbdown:
 
DoctorRx1986 said:
It's nearly impossible for salaries to go down to $40 k per year. Absolutely no one would invest 8 years of education and dish out 100 k to attain a professional degree to make that kind of money. The PharmD degree would be a joke as compared to other health care professionals with doctorate degrees such as dentists and physicians....these individuals make 6 figures and deserve it; why should pharmacists ever make 40 k? Lol, just the thought of that sends shivers down my spine. :thumbdown:
Click to expand...

Yet people dish out 150k to go to law and mba schools coming out with 40k jobs.. or even volunteer law jobs.
 
Here in Chicago, a number of retail pharmacies are not hiring for any Chicago area district. Hospital jobs are rare. As bad as it was for 2009, it'll be nothing compared to 2010.
 
genesis09 said:
Here in Chicago, a number of retail pharmacies are not hiring for any Chicago area district. Hospital jobs are rare. As bad as it was for 2009, it'll be nothing compared to 2010.
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But it's ok...you'll be able to find a job somewhere rural....




[/optimistic pharmacy student]
 
Here is my list of future PharmD mills, please add to it if you hear of new schools. It is getting difficult to keep up with all of them because they are opening everywhere.


possible schools for 2011

Central California SOP- private stand-alone no university affiliation
Samual Merrit (#10 in CA)
St. Joseph College, CT
Roosevelt University, Chicago
Univerity of NC Greensboro

possible schools opening 2010

The University of Maryland Eastern Shores
Drexel
Farleigh Dickinson
D' Youville College
Concordia-Wisconsin-projects a class size of 300.
Presbyterian College-NC
University of South Florida
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine

schools opening 2009

Husson University
New England, University of ME
Notre Dame of Maryland
Regis University

Here are the current schools that are not fully accredited and have not even started pumping out new grads yet.....


Belmont TN -------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Calilfornia Northstate CA -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Charleston WV---------------------------- Candidate**
Chicago State IL --------------------------Pre-Candidate**
East Tennessee State TN ------------------Candidate**
Findlay OH --------------------------------Candidate**
Harding, University of AR -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Hawaii at Hilo HI ---------------------------Candidate**
Incarnate Word TX ------------------------Candidate**
Lipscomb TN ------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
NEOUCOP OH ------------------------------Candidate**
Pacific U. (OR) OR -------------------------Candidate**
Southern Illinois Edwardsville IL -------------Candidate**
Sullivan *** KY ----------------------------PreCandidate
Texas A&M - Kingsville TX -------------------Candidate**
Thomas Jefferson *** PA------------------- Pre-Candidate**
Touro (CA) CA -----------------------------Candidate**
Touro (NY) NY -----------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Union TN ----------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
 
DoctorRx1986 said:
It's nearly impossible for salaries to go down to $40 k per year. Absolutely no one would invest 8 years of education and dish out 100 k to attain a professional degree to make that kind of money. The PharmD degree would be a joke as compared to other health care professionals with doctorate degrees such as dentists and physicians....these individuals make 6 figures and deserve it; why should pharmacists ever make 40 k? Lol, just the thought of that sends shivers down my spine. :thumbdown:
Click to expand...

Salaries aren't about what you deserve. It's a simple supply and demand balance. Oversupply = more people willing to take lower wages => lower wages for everyone. I doubt it'll get to 40k though. Maybe 70k within the next decade.
 
StaviZFingerZ said:
But it's ok...you'll be able to find a job somewhere rural....




[/optimistic pharmacy student]
Click to expand...

They're already trying to get students to go to rural Illinois, Rockford, Peoria, Springfield, or Milwaukee. I've heard from some that NW IN is still hiring.
 
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