Yet another new pharmacy school...

[powertoold]

Just what I need!!! More responsibility....yeah right....

Pre-pharmers gotta love 'em!

Why not? What's wrong with having more responsibilities? Are you against pharmacists immunizing? That's a new responsibility.

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[Transformer]

Why not? What's wrong with having more responsibilities? Are you against pharmacists immunizing? That's a new responsibility.

It's not so much about MORE responsibilities, but about the type of responsibilities you suggested. Immunization is okay, but prescribing medications?? That's way too much...

One of the reasons why the pharmacy profession was created was to separate the dispensing/consulting drugs duties from the prescribing duties. MDs, DOs, NPs, PAs, etc would give a diagnosis and prescribe medication(s). Pharmacists would check their work and make sure the patients don't get overdosed or underdosed.

What you're asking is for Pharmacists to give a diagnosis, prescribe medications, and check their own work? To me, that really defeats the purpose of separating the dispensing and prescribing duties in the first place.

(Although, I heard there are pharmacists who do prescribe only under the supervision of MDs.)

 

[confettiflyer]

Why not? What's wrong with having more responsibilities? Are you against pharmacists immunizing? That's a new responsibility.

we don't want to be quasi-physicians...what's next, DRE? hell let's throw in screening for retinopathy and performing diabetic foot exams (which i got taught last month oddly enough). let's draw some blood too, shall we?

it's like...well, what's the point of having different careers now?

next time a pt needs anything that requires breaking through skin, i'm calling over the nurse, or whoever has that in their job description. i'll stick to what i'm good at.

 

[KARM12]

Sometimes I would like the ability to change the stupid orders without paging....1000g vancomycin q12h....but in all honesty, I have no desire to prescribe drugs because I have no desire to diagnose pts.

 

[Glycerin]

Residencies won't be required in the near future because there are only enough spots for about 11% of the graduating class.

Except my school, where 30% of my class is doing a residency.

 

[bigpharmD]

It's not so much about MORE responsibilities, but about the type of responsibilities you suggested. Immunization is okay, but prescribing medications?? That's way too much...

One of the reasons why the pharmacy profession was created was to separate the dispensing/consulting drugs duties from the prescribing duties. MDs, DOs, NPs, PAs, etc would give a diagnosis and prescribe medication(s). Pharmacists would check their work and make sure the patients don't get overdosed or underdosed.

What you're asking is for Pharmacists to give a diagnosis, prescribe medications, and check their own work? To me, that really defeats the purpose of separating the dispensing and prescribing duties in the first place.

(Although, I heard there are pharmacists who do prescribe only under the supervision of MDs.)

Yeah these groups should really be prescribing drugs.....riiiight

 

[bigpharmD]

So the consensus is that Pharmacy is a ****ty profession?

Damn, I wish I knew this a year ago

And I'm not at all being facetious.

No not really. You have to remember there is a minute number of practicing pharmacists that even know what SDN is, and a small number of those would ever post. I work with many pharmacists who like their job. Dont always think things are better on the other side. Healthcare in general is in a state of flux right now with many groups pulling for more power and responsibilities. I personally just got done interviewing all over the country, and will have a pretty sweet gig next year.

By the way we need more good pharmacists. There are way too many who dont give a sh"" and suck at their job.

 

[genesis09]

more responsibility=more lawsuits
We have a better chance of seeing a third class of drugs started by the FDA than states actually giving pharmacists limited prescribing ability.
Some states do allow pharmacists to prescribe by protocol.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Just what I need!!! More responsibility....yeah right....

Well... if retail pharmacy wasn't turning into the brokerage of prescriptions by insurance companies and legislators, then maybe a little extra authority wouldn't be bad. Adding prescribing authority would definitely increase business, but it seems like every time the script counts increase so do the number of hoops that you have to jump through just to fill and dispense a script.

For example, someone comes in with a script for Concerta and wants to drop it off. Before they can even leave their script, it will require an ID, a DOB, and that the safe has to be checked to see if Concerta is even in stock before taking the script. After that, a PA might be needed, because it's a brand medication. If it goes through the insurance without any problems, then the customer might complain about the cost while trying to pick it up... but it has to be pulled out of the safe, in some cases, before they can even pick it up.

So... How could an increase in responsibilities be incorporated smoothly into the hoop jumping contest known as community pharmacy? I don't know that it would be smooth or even pleasant, because there would be so many more things to do before dispensing the prescribed medication. I guess a nurse could be at every prescribing pharmacy to do vital signs and that kind of stuff, but then who would have enough time to give a good diagnosis of some eye problem like if it was an eye infection or if the person is just rubbing their eye because of eye allergies. I don't know...

What happens in the states that allow additional simple diagnosis? How do they handle it? Is it a pleasant or sloppy process? Is it just another set of hoops to jump through?

 

[PharmDstudent]

more responsibility=more lawsuits
We have a better chance of seeing a third class of drugs started by the FDA than states actually giving pharmacists limited prescribing ability.
Some states do allow pharmacists to prescribe by protocol.

A 3rd class of drugs is a good idea, but what happens whenever the FDA tries to mandate it?

I'm afraid that the FDA would just turn it into something more ridiculous. What good would it do if a third class of medications is filtered by the FDA... the same agency that doesn't even want to recognize "nutraceuticals" as a separate class or that herbals are just herbals, not drugs (without additional legislation like DSHEA).

 

[MountainPharmD]

I think we need to fight for more responsibilities. We "recently" won the right to immunize.

The next step is limited prescriptive ability! Any hospital pharmacist would love some prescribing power.

Retail pharmacy is about turning a profit. The corporate chains brilliant plan to make a profit is by filling as many prescriptions as possible with as little help as possible. When they could be doing something smart like standing up to PBMs and refusing to sign there crap contracts.

Pharmacists didn't "win" the right to give immunizations. The only reason immunizations have gained steam is because retail chains figured out they could turn a nice 40% to 50% profit off them. Trust me it wasn't the individual pharmacist screaming please I need more to do with the already inadequate time I have...lets also give immunizations!!!

There is nothing magic about having the ability to write drugs on a piece of paper. The trick is having the knowledge and experience to properly diagnose a patient and determine what is the best drug to write on that little piece of paper we call a prescription. Doctors have this unique training with thier years of combined classroom work and residency. You want to write prescriptions? Go to med school and get the proper training.

 

[Praziquantel86]

Retail pharmacy is about turning a profit. The corporate chains brilliant plan to make a profit is by filling as many prescriptions as possible with as little help as possible. When they could be doing something smart like standing up to PBMs and refusing to sign there crap contracts.

Pharmacists didn't "win" the right to give immunizations. The only reason immunizations have gained steam is because retail chains figured out they could turn a nice 40% to 50% profit off them. Trust me it wasn't the individual pharmacist screaming please I need more to do with the already inadequate time I have...lets also give immunizations!!!

There is nothing magic about having the ability to write drugs on a piece of paper. The trick is having the knowledge and experience to properly diagnose a patient and determine what is the best drug to write on that little piece of paper we call a prescription. Doctors have this unique training with thier years of combined classroom work and residency. You want to write prescriptions? Go to med school and get the proper training.

Keep in mind that independents can also turn that same profit off of immunizations. The vast majority of the drive to immunize came from practicing pharmacists involved in the local and state independent pharmacy organizations. None of the chains have jumped on their newfound ability to have their pharmacists immunize patients (they will eventually, I know, but they're taking their time).

I absolutely agree about prescribing though. It isn't our role and never should be.

 

[fhx06]

We are suppose to be the safeguard that checks the prescriptions, and I'd be perfectly happy simply doing that. I guess the issue would be if we catch an error, should we be allowed to modify the prescription ourselves after consulting with the patient's doctor?

 

[genesis09]

A 3rd class of drugs is a good idea, but what happens whenever the FDA tries to mandate it?

I'm afraid that the FDA would just turn it into something more ridiculous. What good would it do if a third class of medications is filtered by the FDA... the same agency that doesn't even want to recognize "nutraceuticals" as a separate class or that herbals are just herbals, not drugs (without additional legislation like DSHEA).

Actually, in the early to mid 1990s, the FDA was about to start a new program to regulate supplements. The Vitamin/supplement industry got wind of it, and they started a huge campaign to get the law change so the FDA could not regulate them. In short, the law passed Congress, and it makes it illegal for the FDA to regulate vitamin/supplements as drugs.

The FDA is still reviewing the possibility of a third class, aka behind the counter class. We'll have to wait and see what they decide to do.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Actually, in the early to mid 1990s, the FDA was about to start a new program to regulate supplements. The Vitamin/supplement industry got wind of it, and they started a huge campaign to get the law change so the FDA could not regulate them. In short, the law passed Congress, and it makes it illegal for the FDA to regulate vitamin/supplements as drugs.

The FDA is still reviewing the possibility of a third class, aka behind the counter class. We'll have to wait and see what they decide to do.

You're right as always.

I was just trying to say that: 1) the FDA shouldn't regulate vitamins and supplements as if they're drugs 2) it took extra legislation to prevent them from regulating vits/supplements- the DSHEA stuff- as drugs.

I would be afraid of a 3rd class of drugs that are "behind-the-counter", because the FDA can be really weird about what they consider to be what. I'm also afraid of some cheezy class of "pharmacist drugs" that could become associated with pharmacists- the association being that pharmacists are good with certain drugs and nothing else.


Yeah. We'll have to see...

 

[cdhoward]

No kidding. Actually, computer guided IV compounding would be a very reasonable and viable part of a virtual pharmacy. If the compounding materials and equipment are enclosed within a sterile, sealed environment, the threat of contamination, infection, injury would drastically decrease.

Surgeons are already using similar technologies. Check out the da Vinci surgical system.
http://www.intuitivesurgical.com/products/davincissurgicalsystem/index.aspx


My hospital is considering it and their sales representatives brought a machine out for surgeons to look at and they also allowed hospital employees to try it out. I was able to try it out and I must say - it is a very impressive piece of equipment.

If they can do this for surgeries, then I don't see why it can't be done as you have suggested. Maybe it already exists. I haven't heard of it, nor researched it to know if it does.

 

[fhx06]

Surgeons are already using similar technologies. Check out the da Vinci surgical system.
http://www.intuitivesurgical.com/products/davincissurgicalsystem/index.aspx


My hospital is considering it and their sales representatives brought a machine out for surgeons to look at and they also allowed hospital employees to try it out. I was able to try it out and I must say - it is a very impressive piece of equipment.

If they can do this for surgeries, then I don't see why it can't be done as you have suggested. Maybe it already exists. I haven't heard of it, nor researched it to know if it does.

I heard about such technology but never really researched into it to confirm/deny the stories, so thank you for the information. I actually made that post as an attempt at a witty response to the idea of automating pharmacy reducing the need of pharmacists to 1/10 of its current status. The way the OP worded everything seemed to warrant a witty response, and I figured posing the same scenario at one of the highest paid position a doctor can obtain worked.

 

[powertoold]

Regarding limited prescriptive ability, I'm refering to specific situations, e.g. prescribing anticoagulation dosing regiments to stable patients in the CV unit or something to that effect.

But anyway, I don't have enough experience to actually predict the consequences of such a situation. However, I do think we'd be better off with more responsibilities.

 

[ffpickle]

Retail pharmacy is about turning a profit. The corporate chains brilliant plan to make a profit is by filling as many prescriptions as possible with as little help as possible. When they could be doing something smart like standing up to PBMs and refusing to sign there crap contracts.

Pharmacists didn't "win" the right to give immunizations. The only reason immunizations have gained steam is because retail chains figured out they could turn a nice 40% to 50% profit off them. Trust me it wasn't the individual pharmacist screaming please I need more to do with the already inadequate time I have...lets also give immunizations!!!

There is nothing magic about having the ability to write drugs on a piece of paper. The trick is having the knowledge and experience to properly diagnose a patient and determine what is the best drug to write on that little piece of paper we call a prescription. Doctors have this unique training with thier years of combined classroom work and residency. You want to write prescriptions? Go to med school and get the proper training.

Practicing pharmacists do not want greater authority/responsibilites....you're right.

But I think many students (future pharmacists) do feel as though they are competent enough to take on additional responsibilities if given the proper curricular training (clinical and classroom) in Pharm School and during residency programs. They would also want to be compensated for the additional training work, perhaps in a new profession like "Pharmacist Practioner". These PP may help fill some of the void in primary health care?

My point is that pharmacists don't want more authority/responsibility because they aren't currently trained appropriately. But given the right training starting in Pharm School and in residencies, there is no reason why pharmacists can not be utilized to a greater extent to help curb the primary health care shortage crisis. This way, pharmacists are actually using the extent of their acquired knowledge from Pharm School and post-grad training. As of now, I'm sure some pharmacists feel that while it was tough to learn everything they did, they are not applying much of it.

 

[ffpickle]

This thread, and SDN Pharmacy section in general, have caused me to register for the MCAT very soon. Even though I got into "good" PhD and Pharm programs, I'll apply to med schools because SDN has seriiously scared me ****less haha

 

[bigpharmD]

This thread, and SDN Pharmacy section in general, have caused me to register for the MCAT very soon. Even though I got into "good" PhD and Pharm programs, I'll apply to med schools because SDN has seriiously scared me ****less haha

Thats good go read some of the resident forums or ask the transplant sugeon I was rounding with today who said he would never do medicine again if given the choice. He also says he cant understand why any smart young person would do it and cringes everytime he sees them. Not trying to discourage but I am just pointing out the grass isnt always greener.

 

[fhx06]

This thread, and SDN Pharmacy section in general, have caused me to register for the MCAT very soon. Even though I got into "good" PhD and Pharm programs, I'll apply to med schools because SDN has seriiously scared me ****less haha

What's got you scared, though?

 

[Taurus]

My point is that pharmacists don't want more authority/responsibility because they aren't currently trained appropriately. But given the right training starting in Pharm School and in residencies, there is no reason why pharmacists can not be utilized to a greater extent to help curb the primary health care shortage crisis. This way, pharmacists are actually using the extent of their acquired knowledge from Pharm School and post-grad training. As of now, I'm sure some pharmacists feel that while it was tough to learn everything they did, they are not applying much of it.

Even if pharms had the same clinical knowledge as an NP or PA, why would retail or even hospitals hire pharms to do clinical work when they can pay an NP or PA 70k vs >100k for pharms? The current economics do not make sense for pharms to do clinical work.

 

[bigpharmD]

Even if pharms had the same clinical knowledge as an NP or PA, why would retail or even hospitals hire pharms to do clinical work when they can pay an NP or PA 70k vs >100k for pharms? The current economics do not make sense for pharms to do clinical work.

Because they prescribe inappropriate and costly drugs with no regard...look at MD anderson one of the best cancer hospitals in the world. They have over 90 clinical pharmacy specialists with prescriptive authority. Ask them how well that has gone since they keep adding more...they have a specialist in almost every specialty clinic...Taurus just curious what kind of resident are you and geographically where do you practice (east, west, midwest)?

I agree that it would currently not work in the retail setting. And I also agree there are many pharmacists who I would not trust with this authority. But I think it is crazy that we have NPs who have never worked as a nurse going around writing orders.

 

[Taurus]

I agree that it would currently not work in the retail setting. And I also agree there are many pharmacists who I would not trust with this authority.

I agree that script rights make more sense in the hospital and not the retail setting. However, >80% of pharms work in the retail setting. In the retail setting, any drug chain exec can crunch the numbers and realize that it makes more business sense to have NP's or PA's in store clinics doing clinical work than pharms. How many pharms here want to do clinical work and get paid the same as NP's and PA's? I didn't think so.

 

[confettiflyer]

This thread, and SDN Pharmacy section in general, have caused me to register for the MCAT very soon. Even though I got into "good" PhD and Pharm programs, I'll apply to med schools because SDN has seriiously scared me ****less haha

lol, it's not a cake walk over there either. Check out the allo section and discussions of the decline in reimbursement/of the profession from its heydey.

 

[ffpickle]

What's got you scared, though?

Stories, albeit anecdotes, of many new grads unable to find jobs.

All the new schools opening up at a rapid pace, flooding the market with pharmacists.

Automation & increasingly sophisticated robots decreasing the demand for pharmacists.

Techs becoming increasingly well trained and therefore able to absorb more responsibilities for lower pay than a pharmacist.

The fact that some on this board are predicting (at best) stagnant wages

Obviously all of this should be taken with a grain of salt since it is an online forum,......but it did get be thinking/worried....I don't know many pharmacists and I know too many engineers to even count. For many years their (engineers) salaries skyrocketed and the options grew but now many are finding it tough to find a job..

 

[MountainPharmD]

Because they prescribe inappropriate and costly drugs with no regard....

Pretty broad generalization. What makes you think all pharmacists would prescribe appropriately....


I

But I think it is crazy that we have NPs who have never worked as a nurse going around writing orders.

In order to be a nurse practioner you have to be a nurse first. There are qualifications that must be met. The question is; what makes a nurse with a few extra years of training qualified to diagnose and prescribe? To me PA's and NP's not under the immediate and direct supervision of an MD are dangerous.

 

[ffpickle]

Even if pharms had the same clinical knowledge as an NP or PA, why would retail or even hospitals hire pharms to do clinical work when they can pay an NP or PA 70k vs >100k for pharms? The current economics do not make sense for pharms to do clinical work.

To clarify, I'm referring to clinical pharmacists who have been trained to take on additional tasks....not retail pharmacists. The most imp. part of this training would be the (post-grad) residency. For example, not all nurses can work as a nurse anesthesiologist, you have to complete additional training. Something similar may be useful for some pharmacists? Whether or not they would be hired remains to be seen. Wouldn't they be doing 2 jobs, i.e. the job of a PA/NP and the role of a pharmacist? Less personnel to manage.

 

[fhx06]

Stories, albeit anecdotes, of many new grads unable to find jobs.

All the new schools opening up at a rapid pace, flooding the market with pharmacists.

Automation & increasingly sophisticated robots decreasing the demand for pharmacists.

Techs becoming increasingly well trained and therefore able to absorb more responsibilities for lower pay than a pharmacist.

The fact that some on this board are predicting (at best) stagnant wages

Obviously all of this should be taken with a grain of salt since it is an online forum,......but it did get be thinking/worried....I don't know many pharmacists and I know too many engineers to even count. For many years their (engineers) salaries skyrocketed and the options grew but now many are finding it tough to find a job..

Ah I see. Yes, it's definitely a worry but no profession will be immune to stagnant wages, saturated markets, or changes indefinitely. We'll all need to adapt to this evolving profession, and I'm sure other professions in healthcare are evolving as well. If you are more open to change, I think you should be fine.

Anyone agree or am I talking out of my bum?

 

[Taurus]

Wouldn't they be doing 2 jobs, i.e. the job of a PA/NP and the role of a pharmacist?

Reverse it. Why not train an NP or PA to do retail pharm? In some countries like the Philipines I believe, the doctor operates the pharmacy as well. Then you have someone who can diagnose, prescribe, and dispense...oh wait, isn't that why they separated out pharm from medicine? Checks and balances. Especially when it comes to those drugs that can be abused like opiates. Like I said, if pharms want to do clinical work, then be prepared to be paid like an NP or PA.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Pretty broad generalization. What makes you think all pharmacists would prescribe appropriately....


I

In order to be a nurse practioner you have to be a nurse first. There are qualifications that must be met. The question is; what makes a nurse with a few extra years of training qualified to diagnose and prescribe? To me PA's and NP's not under the immediate and direct supervision of an MD are dangerous.

Yes, it is true NPs must finish nursing school bu they do not have work as a nurse to get into an NP program. A couple acquaintances of mine went nursing school directly into NP program. No practical experience, except for some nursing school rotations.

 

[ffpickle]

Reverse it. Why not train an NP or PA to do retail pharm? In some countries like the Philipines I believe, the doctor operates the pharmacy as well. Then you have someone who can diagnose, prescribe, and dispense...oh wait, isn't that why they separated out pharm from medicine? Checks and balances. Especially when it comes to those drugs that can be abused like opiates. Like I said, if pharms want to do clinical work, then be prepared to be paid like an NP or PA.

I would not be opposed to that actually. I just thought it might be more practical to additionally train clinical pharmacists (i.e. enhance current residencies, make it 3 yrs if you must & more intensive) who go to school for 4 yrs rather than PA's who go to school for 2 yrs. i.e. additionally training PAs to do pharm may require taking extra classes whereas pharmacists may be additionally trained via clinical or hands-on training since the residency is already in place. I am not talking about changing the entire profession. ...Just a track within the profession which has additional responsibilities...just as you must be an RN before an NP. i.e. you need a PharmD first.

 

[Praziquantel86]

I would not be opposed to that actually. I just thought it might be more practical to additionally train clinical pharmacists (i.e. enhance current residencies, make it 3 yrs if you must & more intensive) who go to school for 4 yrs rather than PA's who go to school for 2 yrs. i.e. additionally training PAs to do pharm may require taking extra classes whereas pharmacists may be additionally trained via clinical or hands-on training since the residency is already in place. I am not talking about changing the entire profession. ...Just a track within the profession which has additional responsibilities...just as you must be an RN before an NP. i.e. you need a PharmD first.

At that rate, why not just go to medical school? It makes no sense for a pharmacist to tack on an additional three years of intense post-graduate residency just to gain similar rights to a PA or NP.

Pharmacy and medicine were seperated to provide a double-check on patient care. Sure, there's overlap at some points (coagulation clinics, antibiotic streamlining, drug therapy consults, etc.), but they are separate professions with different roles. Even in places that allow pharmacists to act as providers, like the VA, pharmacists lose a lot of their other rights.

There are many ways for pharmacy to expand clinically without crossing the line into medicine. That should be left to the physicians.

 

[bigpharmD]

Pretty broad generalization. What makes you think all pharmacists would prescribe appropriately....


I

In order to be a nurse practioner you have to be a nurse first. There are qualifications that must be met. The question is; what makes a nurse with a few extra years of training qualified to diagnose and prescribe? To me PA's and NP's not under the immediate and direct supervision of an MD are dangerous.

I agree but here in sunnyville I know nurses who never worked as a nurse a day in their lives and went straight to NP school. They also dropped out of pharmacy because they couldnt make the grades....go figure

 

[bigpharmD]

At that rate, why not just go to medical school? It makes no sense for a pharmacist to tack on an additional three years of intense post-graduate residency just to gain similar rights to a PA or NP.

Pharmacy and medicine were seperated to provide a double-check on patient care. Sure, there's overlap at some points (coagulation clinics, antibiotic streamlining, drug therapy consults, etc.), but they are separate professions with different roles. Even in places that allow pharmacists to act as providers, like the VA, pharmacists lose a lot of their other rights.

There are many ways for pharmacy to expand clinically without crossing the line into medicine. That should be left to the physicians.

Great post. I am there to make sure patients are on the right stuff, right dose, and no one is dying from drugs. I write orders all the time but it is stuff that they should be already on that no one has put them on yet...PA, NPs have a role (writing progress notes and assessing). The MDs I work with always have a PharmD with them. Just the way it is.

 

[bigpharmD]

Pretty broad generalization. What makes you think all pharmacists would prescribe appropriately....

.

I dont think it is that broad of a statement. Many NPs and PAs just add stuff for no reason. Blood pressure is high increase the metoprolol, anemic just add an ESA. They dont look at why they are doing things, what it costs, and if there is a better way to do things. Not to mention is there another explanation thats leading to the drug needing to be added.

 

[panzer]

Yes! Join the dark side!

I signed up for another year of this crap for the same reason.

Now you have to do residencies like medical school as well even if optional?

 

[xiphoid2010]

Now you have to do residencies like medical school as well even if optional?

It's optional, although there is talk of making it a requirement down the road. But nothing in the future is certain.

 

[ffpickle]

At that rate, why not just go to medical school? It makes no sense for a pharmacist to tack on an additional three years of intense post-graduate residency just to gain similar rights to a PA or NP.

Pharmacy and medicine were seperated to provide a double-check on patient care. Sure, there's overlap at some points (coagulation clinics, antibiotic streamlining, drug therapy consults, etc.), but they are separate professions with different roles. Even in places that allow pharmacists to act as providers, like the VA, pharmacists lose a lot of their other rights.

There are many ways for pharmacy to expand clinically without crossing the line into medicine. That should be left to the physicians.

It's a good point but my response would be to utilize the unique skillset of a pharmacist in a clinical setting.

In an analagous way, one could say to nurses going to become nurse practitioners or nurse anesthesiologists, "Why not just go to medical school?" and I am sure they hear this all the time. Just as not every nurse is forced to become a nurse practitioner, we could develop a rigirous residency (which is optional- to each their own) which a pharmacist may elect to do...i.e. just like nurses do.

 

[Praziquantel86]

It's a good point but my response would be to utilize the unique skillset of a pharmacist in a clinical setting.

In an analagous way, one could say to nurses going to become nurse practitioners or nurse anesthesiologists, "Why not just go to medical school?" and I am sure they hear this all the time. Just as not every nurse is forced to become a nurse practitioner, we could develop a rigirous residency (which is optional- to each their own) which a pharmacist may elect to do...i.e. just like nurses do.

That question is asked to NPs because of the length and intensity of their training. They're trying to gain similar rights to physicians through a sort of back door.

I simply don't see the need to make pharmacy training so similar to that of a physician. Medicine involves much more procedural and diagnostic capabilities than pharmacy, and thus requires far more training. I don't think that a pharmacist's skill set would be increased all that much by adding another year of residency. Learning is a life time process, and continues long after residency ends.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Yes, it is true NPs must finish nursing school bu they do not have work as a nurse to get into an NP program. A couple acquaintances of mine went nursing school directly into NP program. No practical experience, except for some nursing school rotations.

I am not sure what kind of craker jack school allows that. None that I have ever heard of.

University of Kansas School of Nursing
ADMISSION REQUIREMENTS

The Admission Committee considers all available information regarding each applicant. The following criteria are considered:

1. Graduation from a nationally accredited bachelor's program in nursing with an overall grade point average of B or above.

2. License to practice as a registered nurse in one state in the USA.

3. One year of work experience in the clinical area of concentration.

4. Community Health Nursing, Nursing Administration, and Nurse Practitioner require one year's experience in any area of nursing. The Neonatal Nurse Practitioner track requires two years experience in a Level III nursery.

5. Acceptable achievement on the Graduate Record Examination.

6. A college level physical assessment course

7. A graduate level statistics course

At least a few years ago if you only had 1 year of nursing experience you were not even considered. The average was 3 to 5 years experience in the desired field.

 

[Taurus]

Yes, it is true NPs must finish nursing school bu they do not have work as a nurse to get into an NP program. A couple acquaintances of mine went nursing school directly into NP program. No practical experience, except for some nursing school rotations.

This is correct.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

This is correct.

Correct and scary.

 

[Taurus]

Correct and scary.

There are direct BSN-DNP programs as well as online DNP programs. So, someone can graduate with no nursing experience whatsoever, complete an online DNP program, and independently treat pts. Just imagine that. That's what we have come to.

 

[MountainPharmD]

This is correct.

Okay...someone show me the requirements for a nurse practioner program that does not require any prior nursing experience for admission.

Sure everyone knows someone who knows someone who got in straight out of nursing school. I don't argue there may be exceptions made for what they feel are well qualified canidates but....there is know way in the world any respectable program admits a large number of nurses stariaght out of nursing school.

Of course that could explain some of the bone head NP's I have run across.

 

[BMBiology]

There are direct BSN-DNP programs as well as online DNP programs. So, someone can graduate with no nursing experience whatsoever, complete an online DNP program, and independently treat pts. Just imagine that. That's what we have come to.

You always have to take whatever Taurus say with a huge grain of salt. His intention is to protect his wallet and preventing nurses from going into primary care protects his wallet, but he is fine with PAs because they are under the control of a physician, not because they are better trained than nurses.

 

[bigpharmD]

I am not sure what kind of craker jack school allows that. None that I have ever heard of.

University of Kansas School of Nursing
ADMISSION REQUIREMENTS

The Admission Committee considers all available information regarding each applicant. The following criteria are considered:

1. Graduation from a nationally accredited bachelor's program in nursing with an overall grade point average of B or above.

2. License to practice as a registered nurse in one state in the USA.

3. One year of work experience in the clinical area of concentration.

4. Community Health Nursing, Nursing Administration, and Nurse Practitioner require one year's experience in any area of nursing. The Neonatal Nurse Practitioner track requires two years experience in a Level III nursery.

5. Acceptable achievement on the Graduate Record Examination.

6. A college level physical assessment course

7. A graduate level statistics course

At least a few years ago if you only had 1 year of nursing experience you were not even considered. The average was 3 to 5 years experience in the desired field.

Man...not sure where you are from but these girls (and some guys) are getting the RN and going straight in to NP school and coming out as your primary care provider....trust me down here I fix their stuff on a daily basis...their lack of drug knowledge is frightening.

 

[MountainPharmD]

An example from Texas.

Baylor School of Nursing
MASTER OF SCIENCE IN NURSING

Admission Requirements
For admission to the Nursing Graduate Studies Program, candidates must meet the general requirements set forth by the Graduate School and the Louise Herrington School of Nursing:

1. Bachelor's degree in any field

2. GPA predictive of success in this program

3. Licensure as a registered nurse in the State of Texas

4. Experience as a practicing professional nurse (1-2 years depending upon the selected major)

5. Scores on the General Record Examination General Test (GRE) or Miller Analogies Test (MAT) that are predictive of success in this program

6. Acceptable writing sample

7. Basic statistics course

8. Personal interview

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

An example from Texas.

Baylor School of Nursing
MASTER OF SCIENCE IN NURSING

Admission Requirements
For admission to the Nursing Graduate Studies Program, candidates must meet the general requirements set forth by the Graduate School and the Louise Herrington School of Nursing:

1. Bachelor's degree in any field

2. GPA predictive of success in this program

3. Licensure as a registered nurse in the State of Texas

4. Experience as a practicing professional nurse (1-2 years depending upon the selected major)

5. Scores on the General Record Examination General Test (GRE) or Miller Analogies Test (MAT) that are predictive of success in this program

6. Acceptable writing sample

7. Basic statistics course

8. Personal interview

I just messaged you this one...

School of Nursing: DNP Admission Requirements

• Bachelor of science in nursing or master’s degree in nursing from a school of nursing accredited by an appropriate national nursing accrediting body
• Cumulative G.P.A. of 3.0 or above.
• Completed Graduate School Application form. Click here to download the application form.
• For BSN to DNP applicants: Graduate Record Examination (GRE) with a score of 500 on verbal and 3.5 or above on analytical writing or a score of 50 or greater on the Miller Analogies Test (MAT). Post-master’s applicants are not required to submit GRE or MAT scores.
• TOEFL score of 600 or a IELTS score of 7.5, if native language is not English.
• Current R.N. license to practice nursing in Oregon; Washington licensure is encouraged for increased options for clinical placement.
• A written essay that reflects on the applicant’s understanding of the Family Nurse Practitioner and how it blends with integrative health. Click here to download writing sample form: DNP Writing Sample.
• Three recommendations from persons able to evaluate current competency in nursing and potential for nursing practice at the most advanced level. Click here to download recommendation form.
• A college-level statistics course.
• Ability to use a PC for word processing, e-mail and Internet.
• Current résumé.

An admission interview may be requested.