"You're not a real doctor!"

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mclem222 said:
who cares? If I wanted to be a "real doctor" I wouldve gone to med school. I wanted to be an optometrist. I am offended by people in our profession who want so badly to make us into MDs that they try to push confusing terms like Optometric physician etc.. It just annoys the crap out of me. If you wanted to be called a physician you shouldve gone the MD route. That is like a cardiologist for my father introducing himself "I am Dr Klim..I am part of the cardiac surgery team". No M(*@#erF@#@er you are a cardiologist. Why are you trying to mislead people? Be proud of what you trained to be. So annoying...
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Why the hell do you bump up old threads?
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Why not?

I don't think there is a rule, is there? What if someone has some questions that would be suitable for an older thread?
 
There is so much fail in this room it's laughable.

Please, please... take a few minutes to educate yourselves! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title)

If you want to play the stupid historical game, then you better all go apologize to your local preacher because it all started in church scholarship. Then law. And so on and so forth.

In todays time people associate the word doctor, in the US, with physician. It is what it is. However, I'd also say that with the recent trend of making new, silly academic doctorates and handing them out like cheap candy on Halloween, we really shouldn't give a damn.

Like the white coat, it lost it's charm when it became ubiquitous.
 
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imemily said:
Why not?

I don't think there is a rule, is there? What if someone has some questions that would be suitable for an older thread?
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I'm not going to close this thread down yet but it's close to that.

No, there is no rule about resurecting ancient threads if someone has a question relevant to the original thread.

However.....

This thread was not resurected with a new question. It was resurected with a diatribe that added no new information, provided no new insight or perspective, asked no new questions and has significant potential to just turn into one of those tired threads where student doctors needlessly bicker with each other like a bunch of second graders.

And as was easily predictable, it didn't take long for someone to bring up the wikipedia definition of "real doctor" and to point out that the origins of the term doctor where religious and academic scholars and yadda yadda yadda.

So please....if people want to comment on how they specifically handle the question of "are you a real doctor or not" then we'll leave it open. If it's going to not contribute any perspective then let's just leave it be.

In that spirit, I will offer up how I handle it though I've only had to handle it about 5 times in 11 years of practice.

If a person on the street says something like that, I usually say "You're absolutely right. I'm a Doctor like Julius Irving is a Doctor." That usually shuts them up because there's really no response to that.

A couple of times I've said "Yea, that's true but I get paid like a real doctor so I'm cool with it." That also shuts them up because there's no real response to that either.

If a patient says it while they're in my office I say "what are you doing here then? Don't you think you ought to see a real doctor for your eyes?"

That usually startles them enough to make them at least realize how obnoxious they're being. Then it's up to them to decide if they want to stay or not.
 
docwatson said:
A cardiologist is an M.D. or D.O. What do you mean they aren't doctors even though they are physicians anyway? I don't think that's a good example.

Questions:
Are PhDs not doctors even though their degree says "Doctor of Philosophy"?
Are podiatrists doctors even though their degree says "Doctor of Podiatric Medicine"?

So what about optometrists with the degree "Doctor of Optometry"? We aren't doctors? Not that I like replying to tired old threads but come on... :p
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docwatson in da house ...its been awhile :) welcome back !
 
KHE said:
In that spirit, I will offer up how I handle it though I've only had to handle it about 5 times in 11 years of practice.

If a person on the street says something like that, I usually say "You're absolutely right. I'm a Doctor like Julius Irving is a Doctor." That usually shuts them up because there's really no response to that.

A couple of times I've said "Yea, that's true but I get paid like a real doctor so I'm cool with it." That also shuts them up because there's no real response to that either.

If a patient says it while they're in my office I say "what are you doing here then? Don't you think you ought to see a real doctor for your eyes?"

That usually startles them enough to make them at least realize how obnoxious they're being. Then it's up to them to decide if they want to stay or not.
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As a resident I will get this kind of thing myself from time to time. I like your response there, and might use it should the need arise.

Or, in the spirit of the other thread, perhaps something like "you're right, maybe you should see a real doctor for your lortab/xanax".
 
KHE said:
I'm not going to close this thread down yet but it's close to that.

No, there is no rule about resurecting ancient threads if someone has a question relevant to the original thread.

However.....

This thread was not resurected with a new question. It was resurected with a diatribe that added no new information, provided no new insight or perspective, asked no new questions and has significant potential to just turn into one of those tired threads where student doctors needlessly bicker with each other like a bunch of second graders.

And as was easily predictable, it didn't take long for someone to bring up the wikipedia definition of "real doctor" and to point out that the origins of the term doctor where religious and academic scholars and yadda yadda yadda.

So please....if people want to comment on how they specifically handle the question of "are you a real doctor or not" then we'll leave it open. If it's going to not contribute any perspective then let's just leave it be.

In that spirit, I will offer up how I handle it though I've only had to handle it about 5 times in 11 years of practice.

If a person on the street says something like that, I usually say "You're absolutely right. I'm a Doctor like Julius Irving is a Doctor." That usually shuts them up because there's really no response to that.

A couple of times I've said "Yea, that's true but I get paid like a real doctor so I'm cool with it." That also shuts them up because there's no real response to that either.

If a patient says it while they're in my office I say "what are you doing here then? Don't you think you ought to see a real doctor for your eyes?"

That usually startles them enough to make them at least realize how obnoxious they're being. Then it's up to them to decide if they want to stay or not.
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:laugh:I love that..."I'm a Doctor like Julius Erving is a Doctor" :laugh:
 
Even with an MD I sometimes get attitude about "not being a real doctor." I've introduced myself to patients several times and had them give a little smile and say "Oh, you call yourself 'doctor' eh?" I assume that they were assuming that I was an optometrist, but thats a lot of assuming and who cares. Even if I were an optometrist its pretty ballsy and rude of them to say anything like that.

I pretty much ignore it and just go ahead with the exam, but with time I'm getting more and more jaded and maybe someday I'll think of some snarky comeback to let them know just how I feel about their attitude.
 
Anyone use Dr. as their title for restaurant reservations?
 
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If a patient says it while they're in my office I say "what are you doing here then? Don't you think you ought to see a real doctor for your eyes?"
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This one has always been favorite. I've never actually said it to a patient, but it's what I think every time this comes up.

As far as the term "doctor" goes, I basically never refer to myself as doctor. I introduce myself to patients by my first and last name. When I first got out of school is was always "Dr. Eyestrain", but I'm over it now. I have a lot of patients who just call me by my first name and I'm cool with it.
 
staphaureus said:
it depends... If it's a PhD who did a thesis saying this, then I'd shrink into a corner and agree that he/she is correct. But if it's any other health professional (PharmD, DDS), I'd say "you're not a real doctor either *******", and if it's it's an MD/DO, i'd say "you're not a real either *******s, you just manage to historically steal that title when everyone else in the world makes a distinction between a doctorate (PhD, hence Dr. blah blah) from a MBBS.

And if it's a patient, I'd say "give me your money".
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How ignorant.

The Doctor of Medicine predated the PhD. The only thing that preceded the MD was the theology doctor, by two years.

In any case, doctors in the UK have bachelor degrees (MBBS) and they are still called "doctors" in the UK. The English clinical use of "doctor" has nothing to do with doctorates.

16846 said:
I think the problem comes about because American's seem to have merged the meaning of the word "Doctor" with that of "Physician".
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It's not Americans, it's all English-speaking countries who equate doctor = physician, and it has been this way for hundreds of years, before the US even existed. The concept of homophones in English is apparently too difficult for people on this thread to handle.

A physician doctor is not semantically equivalent to the title Dr.

This thread is like a bad joke in Idiocracy.
 
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What should be questioned when a patient comes in the door is the quality of care, qualifications, and capabilities of who is treating them. A dentist by that terms is "not a real doctor" but we entrust them with our dental needs, so what's the point of this question really. The best incidence we've had at the office where I work (I'm a tech) was when some PhD came in and wrote Dr. so and so, so I asked "are you a physician," to which they replied "No, I'm a physicist but I write Dr so doctors don't speak down to me" :laugh: Just goes to show some people really cling to titles as some kind of real value where the REAL value is what you are offering your patients in terms of the skills you have learned and your experiences treating patients. If you must be prideful and have an ego, at least let it be over your ability to offer outstanding care rather than thinking you deserve respect because of the title in front of your name.
 
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I was expecting to find information where it says that "doctor" was a title reserved for a few professions, and not just doctorate holders but I found the contrary, it seems most countries for some time have generally referred to all academic holders of doctorate degrees as "doctors."

JD holders in the United States are said to be able to use the term "doctor" but generally do not, and choose "attorney at law" or in some cases "Esq." Some professions people choose to use discretion. I heard of at least one academic institution that uses the term "doctor" only for physicians, but this is rare.

"In the House of Commons of the United Kingdom on January 19, 1996, health minister Gerald Malone noted that the title doctor had never been restricted to either medical practitioners or those with doctoral degrees in the UK, commenting that the word was defined by common usage but that the titles "physician, doctor of medicine, licentiate in medicine and surgery, bachelor of medicine, surgeon, general practitioner and apothecary" did have special protection in law. [1]"

"In guidance issued by Who's Who published by A & C Black,it is noted that in the context of the UK, "not all qualified medical practitioner hold the (M.D.) degree" but that "those ... who have not taken it are addressed as if they had." [1]"

"A & C Black also note that British surgeons - a designation reserved for those who have obtained membership of the Royal College of Surgeons - are addressed as Mr, Mrs or Miss rather than Dr. This custom has been commented on in the British Medical Journal and may stem from the historical origins of the profession. [1]"

I say all in all, I really don't know what they big deal is. It is just a title and doesn't have anything to do with performance, success, skill, or patient care that you have. I thought at first it was just a degree that you have to earn to do the specific job you want to do, but from the threads I have found elsewhere it appears different. I also met several people that said something about having a "white coat" as being a reason for being in a profession. I don't agree with this, and lol, I like having a bit of a fashion sense myself, and some variety, although the white coat is a nice thing.

[1] Wikipedia. Doctor (title).

In addition, I would think some reading of ancient history would help reveal more, but all I found thus far was the term doctor for 1 millennium being used for all doctorate level academic holders, but of course this is quite a debatable topic and I am sure someone will uncover a contradiction.
 
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Thanks for closing my initial post! I enjoyed watching everyone bicker and bitch like a bunch of 5th grade girls...As an update, I reported the optometrist to the state medical board which is filing a grievance with the state optometric board. From what I heard the optometric board is suprisingly "reopening" the file to investigate. Wow..WHAT A SURPRISE? :) Also I am having the local paper in my town write an article about this incident and reported the doctor to the better business bureaa.What I have realized is that optometry is not the same as the medical profession..not only from how this "doctor acted" but how the optometry board responded initially and even how the optometrists on this website responded so defensively to my post. It is just a different profession than traditional medicine and has a lot of issues with how it feels it is percieved and I feel appropriately so. The only person who appropriately respondedd was someone who wrote personal message saying that essentially this can be problem and it is unfortunate and they are sorry. This is an aptly titled post for the optometry forum..You guys need to get your profession in order..it is now just a glorified version of a medical salesman.
 
eyeballmadness said:
Thanks for closing my initial post! I enjoyed watching everyone bicker and bitch like a bunch of 5th grade girls...As an update, I reported the optometrist to the state medical board which is filing a grievance with the state optometric board. From what I heard the optometric board is suprisingly "reopening" the file to investigate. Wow..WHAT A SURPRISE? :) Also I am having the local paper in my town write an article about this incident and reported the doctor to the better business bureaa.What I have realized is that optometry is not the same as the medical profession..not only from how this "doctor acted" but how the optometry board responded initially and even how the optometrists on this website responded so defensively to my post. It is just a different profession than traditional medicine and has a lot of issues with how it feels it is percieved and I feel appropriately so. The only person who appropriately respondedd was someone who wrote personal message saying that essentially this can be problem and it is unfortunate and they are sorry. This is an aptly titled post for the optometry forum..You guys need to get your profession in order..it is now just a glorified version of a medical salesman.
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ok then.....
 
Here we go again. +pity+
 
yushin said:
What a stupid troll. Does trolling make you feel like you are a normal human being instead of a dumb ass you are?
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Rather be a troller than a wannabe who rips off the public selling wares like a shopkeeper....:) Have a great life...losers.
 
eyeballmadness said:
Rather be a troller than a wannabe who rips off the public selling wares like a shopkeeper....:) Have a great life...losers.
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Oh don't you worry.....we will and have a great life: Spent 4 years in OD school, got out in our 20s, enjoyed our life, traveled, interacted with awesome patients, owned great cars, helped the vision of many in our community, enjoyed time with family, friends, pets, and the good times continue. We spent the best days of our lives enjoying our lives, not buried by books in the library at 3am.

I have great respect for the medical profession and physicians, but reading some the arrogant posts of some "doctors" on the forum makes me question my attitude. Doctors like you need to step off your self-proclaimed pedestal and stop embarassing your yourself and your profession. Every health profession has a duty and a role in the society, otherwise it would have gone weeded out years ago. Stop acting like your god, and learn to respect others, and for god's sake learn some professionalism.
 
eyeballmadness said:
Rather be a troller than a wannabe who rips off the public selling wares like a shopkeeper....:) Have a great life...losers.
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And don't you forget that there are good and bad professionals in EVERY field. Wasn't there a case a few years ago of a physician at a hospital who purposely diminished the health of his patients, just so he could save them to bring in more $$$? In my city, numerous friends of mine complain about their family physician and question their credibility. Stop generalizing and stereotyping. It's common sense.
 
optgurl said:
Oh don't you worry.....we will and have a great life: Spent 4 years in OD school, got out in our 20s, enjoyed our life, traveled, interacted with awesome patients, owned great cars, helped the vision of many in our community, enjoyed time with family, friends, pets, and the good times continue. We spent the best days of our lives enjoying our lives, not buried by books in the library at 3am.

I have great respect for the medical profession and physicians, but reading some the arrogant posts of some "doctors" on the forum makes me question my attitude. Doctors like you need to step off your self-proclaimed pedestal and stop embarassing your yourself and your profession. Every health profession has a duty and a role in the society, otherwise it would have gone weeded out years ago. Stop acting like your god, and learn to respect others, and for god's sake learn some professionalism.
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Uhh...eyeballmadness is a college student, not a physician.
 
optgurl said:
And don't you forget that there are good and bad professionals in EVERY field. Wasn't there a case a few years ago of a physician at a hospital who purposely diminished the health of his patients, just so he could save them to bring in more $$$? In my city, numerous friends of mine complain about their family physician and question their credibility. Stop generalizing and stereotyping. It's common sense.
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Eyeballmadness is not a physician. He or she is a college student.
 
optgurl said:
Oh don't you worry.....we will and have a great life: Spent 4 years in OD school, got out in our 20s, enjoyed our life, traveled, interacted with awesome patients, owned great cars, helped the vision of many in our community, enjoyed time with family, friends, pets, and the good times continue. We spent the best days of our lives enjoying our lives, not buried by books in the library at 3am.

I have great respect for the medical profession and physicians, but reading some the arrogant posts of some "doctors" on the forum makes me question my attitude. Doctors like you need to step off your self-proclaimed pedestal and stop embarassing your yourself and your profession. Every health profession has a duty and a role in the society, otherwise it would have gone weeded out years ago. Stop acting like your god, and learn to respect others, and for god's sake learn some professionalism.
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Thanks optogurl! Your response was very appropriate. It looks like you have "gone weeded years ago" yourself. I love the fact that you think that I am a doctor without going through the appropriate schooling or training...but oh yeah you are an eye doctor so that is par for the course...As far as you are concerned I might as well be doing surgery on people..after all I did learn alot about the eye on studentdoctor.net....thats got to be the equivalent of surgery. I showed these posts to some of my frat brothers and we laughed our asses off.

It was fun boyz....Keep on grinding those lenses!

Eyeballmadness signing off.
 
eyeballmadness said:
I love the fact that you think that I am a doctor without going through the appropriate schooling or training
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Maybe you should take "Attending" out from under your name. Attending means physician/doctor, ignorant one.
 
I don't think I've ever had any patient actually say to my face, "You're not a real doctor!"

I have had some patients get angry when they thought I was an MD and found out I wasn't. I'd worked for an MD office long ago. One MD had a motor-vehicle accident and had to retire because of brain trauma. I took over his practice. It is not usual and customary for an OD to take over an MD practice, but they had no other person and it was an emergency.

The staff regularly forgot to mention that I was an OD to some of his former patients.

I'd say, "I have a doctorate in optometry. I'm not an MD. I don't do surgery. If I see anything unusual, I'll send you to one of our MD's for a consult. You're free to leave if you wish."

Usually I'd get the comment, "Well, I don't mind if you examine me. I just wish I'd been told when I made the appointment."

And they were right. They should have been told.

If patients get angry, tell them they're free to leave. It usually diffuses the situation.
 
One has to have a thick skin this profession, and it's not surprising we as a group don't get more comments about this. I guess if a patient was being real pushy you could always say an optometrist is more of a doctor than a professor in art history (-:
 
JJones said:
One has to have a thick skin this profession, and it's not surprising we as a group don't get more comments about this. I guess if a patient was being real pushy you could always say an optometrist is more of a doctor than a professor in art history (-:
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KHE still has the best reply I've heard:

"You're absolutely right. I'm a Doctor like Julius Irving is a Doctor."

:laugh:
 
I'm not an Optometrist, but i don't think id mind unless the person was trying to insult me for no reason. In general i think people who say "YOUR NOT A REAL DOCTOR!" are just insecure with themselves and try to make themselves feel better by putting you down.
 
I spoke to a medical student and he said its good that I'm becoming an eye doctor. He said I'm not becoming an eye surgeon but an eye doctor. Also I had to look up Julius Irving because I've never heard of him because I am young. For young people you can say I'm a real Doctor like Dr. Dre.
 
I call everybody with white coats but no flowery scrubs "doctor". It makes them nicer and more likely to give me what I want :D
 
Shnurek said:
I spoke to a medical student and he said its good that I'm becoming an eye doctor. He said I'm not becoming an eye surgeon but an eye doctor. Also I had to look up Julius Irving because I've never heard of him because I am young. For young people you can say I'm a real Doctor like Dr. Dre.
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lol, this is exactly what I was thinking. :p
 
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