Heart set on HST

streetlight · Apr 25, 2005

I am currently a senior in high school. I know I have a long way off to go but I'm shooting for a top tier MD/PhD or MSTP school - and of course harvard-mit HST tops it off for me. I've done two summers of research with tuberculosis during high school, which piqued my interest in MD/PhD programs. After attending a few lectures from HST professors, my heart was set on HST. Due to my interests in becoming a medical scientist, I declined the 6 year BA/MD with PennSt/Jefferson and will be attending MIT this fall.

Basically what I want to know is: what does it take to get into HST and similar programs? What kind of students do the adcoms look for? Are there any majors that I should look into? (I really want to do Biological Engineering but it's new this year at MIT and will be selected by a 20 person lottery so I need to look at alternatives). Can anyone give ma a basic track of my undergraduate years that I should follow?

I know my goals can change and I may seem a bit overambitious, but my philosophy is that one can never start too early. So, any advice?

Thanks for the read.

krelian · Apr 25, 2005

Wow, it's still a long way off but if you already know that you want to be HST MSTP, then more power to you. I just feel sorry for your classmates though

.

Anyhow, many HST people did engineering or some hardcore science field in college, but what your major is will not matter much. Your only sure bet for getting into HST will be high quality publications (Nature/Science/Cell, Lancet, NEJM) and solid knowledge of your research.

sandg · Apr 25, 2005

streetlight,

I want to throw this out there before someone else tries to relay the same message albeit in a much less kind way.

There is nothing wrong with having goals and aiming high. I hope, however, you don't let those goals get in the way of what could be the best 4-5 years of your life. As a high schooler, how do you know you will even enjoy research or will want to give up 7-8 years to do an MD/PhD? Do you know what life as a PI or just a regular old clinical doc is like?

During undergrad, you will have the chance to explore things you have never heard of yet and go places you have only dreamed. It would be unfortunate if you sacrificed these opportunities just to get into HST. Furthermore and in a less "significant life experience vain", this is going to be your last chance to stay out way past your bed time, have random conversations over coffee, and see people falling down drunk at parties (assuming students at MIT do such things

). Don't miss it.

MSTP programs in general require extensive research experience. I had no desire to do MSTP, but I can speak about trying to get into the "top" MD schools. It is incredibly tough, and those that ultimately gain admittance bring much to the table besides great grades and MCAT. I would imagine HST would be looking for both great research and these extras.

Overall, life is what you make of it. For every person on SDN who whines or brags about going to the best schools, there are an equal number who have enjoyed their lives and been equally successful at places USNWR doesn't rank as highly. So, live life to its fullest during undergrad...dream, explore, and do stupid things. If HST is still right for you great, if not you'll be just as happy.

synapse lapse · Apr 25, 2005

Yeah, basic track is major in something science oriented (since you want HST and not NP) and get as close to 4.0 as possible. Get the highest MCAT score you can, do research all 4 years, couple that with clinical exposure, conference poster presentations, a few publications. And keep in mind even with all of these things you may not get even an interview, so you ought not set your heart on 1 place. Oh, and have a personality and don't be a geek, do other things not academic and have a life. Be able to talk if you do get an interview, and on a more personal level than just science talk - i.e. get a social life while in school. Do all that and you might get in.

Loco Loki · Apr 25, 2005

Alexander Pink said:
Yeah, basic track is major in something science oriented (since you want HST and not NP) and get as close to 4.0 as possible. Get the highest MCAT score you can, do research all 4 years, couple that with clinical exposure, conference poster presentations, a few publications. And keep in mind even with all of these things you may not get even an interview, so you ought not set your heart on 1 place. Oh, and have a personality and don't be a geek, do other things not academic and have a life. Be able to talk if you do get an interview, and on a more personal level than just science talk - i.e. get a social life while in school. Do all that and you might get in.

In summary: Be inhumanly perfect. Well, I shouldn't say inhuman, but you get the general idea. Oh, and you still might not be accepted, even if you are the lovechild of Mother Teresa and Albert Einstein, ect ect.

Hey, but people do get in. But with such high competetion, small details are all they can rely on.

Mateodaspy · Apr 25, 2005

streetlight said:
I am currently a senior in high school. I know I have a long way off to go but I'm shooting for a top tier MD/PhD or MSTP school - and of course harvard-mit HST tops it off for me. I've done two summers of research with tuberculosis during high school, which piqued my interest in MD/PhD programs. After attending a few lectures from HST professors, my heart was set on HST. Due to my interests in becoming a medical scientist, I declined the 6 year BA/MD with PennSt/Jefferson and will be attending MIT this fall.

Basically what I want to know is: what does it take to get into HST and similar programs? What kind of students do the adcoms look for? Are there any majors that I should look into? (I really want to do Biological Engineering but it's new this year at MIT and will be selected by a 20 person lottery so I need to look at alternatives). Can anyone give ma a basic track of my undergraduate years that I should follow?

I know my goals can change and I may seem a bit overambitious, but my philosophy is that one can never start too early. So, any advice?

Thanks for the read.

hmmm. first thing's first. get off sdn and go back to lab. you're a high school senior without a single first author publication? :laugh:

good luck.

just kidding. don't worry about it just yet. enjoy college. do research. then see what happens when you apply.

streetlight · Apr 25, 2005

Thanks for your quick feedback.

krelian - would an engineering track undergrad major make things even harder? from what i hear, being an engineering major at mit will plummet your gpa

sandg - i agree with you that undergrad is a time for fun and exploration of fields and such. that's one of the reasons i decided against joint accelerated BA/MD programs that i could have gotten into. however, i have to keep my future in mind, especially for an undertaking such as MD/PhD. i know it's hard enough to get into med school from a grade deflating school like MIT --- i want to try to maximize my chances and if working early on can do that, i'm all up for it. thank you though i'll keep that in mind.

alexander pink, md - thanks for your advice too. i think that my ungeekiness actually is what attracted the mit adcoms. i play in a rock band, am a starting varsity tennis player, and am president of my high school. that may have offset my high school class rank of 18. hopefully i can continue those sorts of activities in college.

mateodaspy - arg, my assays were all negative but i'll give it a shot this summer

haha

anyone else?

CarleneM · Apr 25, 2005

streetlight, I was in a rock band too and HMS seemed to like that (new pathway though.didn't apply to HST).

Anyway, i think its great to have a lofty goal in mind to keep you motivated. just don't be crushed if it doesn't materialize. I would start doing medical research early on in your time at MIT. I got involved in research second semester of freshman year and never looked back. Going to MIT will really help since it will let you make connections with folks involved in the HST program. The bioengineering major you mentioned sounds like a good fit for HST so I would enter the lottery for that. MIT is easily accessible to Longwood so you should also take advantage of the many shadowing opportunities there.

Haybrant · Apr 25, 2005

Best thing is to talk to students that are currently in the program. You would be surprised how little students talk to those whose shoes they want to be in. Id say before starting pretty much anything new in life, esp. academics, it really helps to talk with someone who has gone through it.

streetlight · Apr 28, 2005

are shadowing opportunities hard to come by at longwood? is there a lot of competition for them? how do you go about getting one?

MDub1 · Jul 29, 2010

I was just looking at this thread as I'm trying to decide whether to fill out the HST essay or not and I noticed your MDApps and that you made it into the HST program. You're like Babe Ruth calling your own shots. Good job man!

Trexate · Jul 29, 2010

Harvard and MIT both have a strict 'No Yankees fans' policy. Tough break.

phltz · Jul 29, 2010

The good news is that it's really easy to get fantastically good UROPs at MIT. If you're serious about wanting to do a MSTP program or the like, try to start that as early as possible. Find a good one and stick with it for at least a few years. Do it full time in the summer, and at least a few hours a week in the school year, where possible. If you cultivate a relationship with a good research mentor, it can pay off in spades. It doesn't necessarily have to be directly medically related (although that's obviously a bonus), but it'd be good if it was plausibly relatable to medicine. I'm sure there are plenty of Course VII labs that'd fit the bill.

The bad news is that MIT is a tough school to be premed at. Standard prereqs for med school are two semesters of physics and two semesters of physics lab, two of inorganic chemistry and two semesters of inorganic lab, two semesters of orgo and two semesters of orgo lab. At most schools, this is pretty straightforward. At MIT it is not. The basic classes cover a lot more material, so by the time you've done two semesters of everything you'll have moved into substantially more advanced material than folks at other schools. These classes do not normally include labs at MIT, so to get the required lab component, you may have to take some pretty advanced specialized lab classes. The labs won't just be rolled into some basic intro course.

None of this is bad, it just means you're going to have to go the extra mile, and then some, as compared to premeds at almost any other school. If you're smart and work hard (which, because you're going to MIT I assume is true), you may benefit from this, but realize you're gonna have to do more than everyone else.

Another possible issue is that classes in the fall of your first year are pass/no record, and a lot of med schools will be very cranky if they can't see your prereq grades.

Kick some butt.

orthomyxo · Jul 29, 2010

phltz said:
The good news is that it's really easy to get fantastically good UROPs at MIT. If you're serious about wanting to do a MSTP program or the like, try to start that as early as possible. Find a good one and stick with it for at least a few years. Do it full time in the summer, and at least a few hours a week in the school year, where possible. If you cultivate a relationship with a good research mentor, it can pay off in spades. It doesn't necessarily have to be directly medically related (although that's obviously a bonus), but it'd be good if it was plausibly relatable to medicine. I'm sure there are plenty of Course VII labs that'd fit the bill.

The bad news is that MIT is a tough school to be premed at. Standard prereqs for med school are two semesters of physics and two semesters of physics lab, two of inorganic chemistry and two semesters of inorganic lab, two semesters of orgo and two semesters of orgo lab. At most schools, this is pretty straightforward. At MIT it is not. The basic classes cover a lot more material, so by the time you've done two semesters of everything you'll have moved into substantially more advanced material than folks at other schools. These classes do not normally include labs at MIT, so to get the required lab component, you may have to take some pretty advanced specialized lab classes. The labs won't just be rolled into some basic intro course.

None of this is bad, it just means you're going to have to go the extra mile, and then some, as compared to premeds at almost any other school. If you're smart and work hard (which, because you're going to MIT I assume is true), you may benefit from this, but realize you're gonna have to do more than everyone else.

Another possible issue is that classes in the fall of your first year are pass/no record, and a lot of med schools will be very cranky if they can't see your prereq grades.

Kick some butt.

Just to let you know, this is an old thread and he already got into HST. Check the MDapps lol.

MDub1 · Jul 29, 2010

MDub1 said:
I was just looking at this thread as I'm trying to decide whether to fill out the HST essay or not and I noticed your MDApps and that you made it into the HST program. You're like Babe Ruth calling your own shots. Good job man!

Chops369 said:
Just to let you know, this is an old thread and he already got into HST. Check the MDapps lol.

I apologize guys, I didn't want to resurrect an old thread. I just thought it was really cool that he told everyone what he wanted to do and then he went and did it. Sorry phltz if I deceived you

.

Narmerguy · Jul 30, 2010

MDub1 said:
I apologize guys, I didn't want to resurrect an old thread. I just thought it was really cool that he told everyone what he wanted to do and then he went and did it. Sorry phltz if I deceived you .

Yup, that's pretty impressive, not going to lie. However, this is also the stuff that can be pretty scary when you consider that there are people out there for whom medical school is a singular goal that they've held since they came out of the womb...and here I am, still deciding my life, still trying different things and trying to discover what it is that is best for me. I hope people leave time for life in this pursuit of ours.

cheesier · Aug 5, 2010

Wow. Inspiring thread

Darthvinder · Aug 5, 2010

Seems like Harvard *puts on sunglasses* does take Yankees fans.

theWUbear · Aug 5, 2010

I love this thread. I feel happy for this guy. His heart was in it. Congratulations

timeflies · Aug 7, 2015

Here's to the 5-year revival of this impressive thread. Congrats! :claps:

Banco · Aug 7, 2015

Sometimes it's refreshing to see someone have a goal and give it their all to get it, even if it sounds insane. It's not bad to aim high. I think that if you truly believe that you can accomplish something, then you always have a shot. Somebody has to be in that statistic of 5% that get accepted right? Obviously most won't make it, but you gotta try.

I can't help but feel that if this was posted today on SDN the dude would get totally chewed out.

mw18 · Aug 7, 2015

Banco said:
Sometimes it's refreshing to see someone have a goal and give it their all to get it, even if it sounds insane. It's not bad to aim high.

I can't help but feel that if this was posted today on SDN the dude would get totally chewed out.

I actually clicked on it to see how badly he was being ripped. Then when I saw 05, I got optimistic that maybe he had beaten the odds. And he has. Pretty cool. I support telling people to enjoy college and see if they circle back to medicine, but it's cool to see this.

Petrichor1 · Aug 7, 2015

This is a general rule of thumb to any senior HS students: if you are a senior you probably haven't even crossed that extent of research to say MD/PhD is your goal. You will lose a lot of opportunities if you blindly go towards MSTP programs. They offer a good incentive but if you ask any professor that you have done research with they will try to moore you towards completing just an MD because they know of all people how useful a PhD component would be.
When I mention opportunity cost, I mean that as a senior you are losing on potential other school programs that can make your life even better. Such being Northwestern's early premed scholars program or Brown's BS/MD program. You need to continue looking at your options because as a senior HS student you have a lot at your disposal that you certainly don't want to overlook.
One of the best advices I would like to give to you at this point in your life: focus on short term goals because by the time you are ready, your long-term goals will not look so far away from your reach. Focus on being happy right now by achieving accolades that are within your reach. Focusing on MSTP is a russian roullette that will stress you too many times for you to even care and for too long a time.

md-2020 · Aug 7, 2015

Petrichor1 said:
if you are a senior you probably haven't even crossed that extent of research to say MD/PhD is your goal. You will lose a lot of opportunities if you blindly go towards MSTP programs. They offer a good incentive but if you ask any professor that you have done research with they will try to moore you towards completing just an MD because they know of all people how useful a PhD component would be.
When I mention opportunity cost, I mean that as a senior you are losing on potential other school programs that can make your life even better. Such being Northwestern's early premed scholars program or Brown's BS/MD program. You need to continue looking at your options because as a senior HS student you have a lot at your disposal that you certainly don't want to overlook.
One of the best advices I would like to give to you at this point in your life: focus on short term goals because by the time you are ready, your long-term goals will not look so far away from your reach. Focus on being happy right now by achieving accolades that are within your reach. Focusing on MSTP is a russian roullette that will stress you too many times for you to even care.

Notice how the thread is from 2005 and the OP got into HST in 2008. Likely about to graduate MD/PhD this year....

Petrichor1 · Aug 7, 2015

md-2020 said:
Notice how the thread is from 2005 and the OP got into HST in 2008. Likely about to graduate MD/PhD this year....

yea that's why I edited it to "every HS senior" lol. But this is awesome that he got into so many great schools; just finished looking at his profile at mdapp.

NotASerialKiller · Aug 7, 2015

streetlight said:
I am currently a senior in high school. I know I have a long way off to go but I'm shooting for a top tier MD/PhD or MSTP school - and of course harvard-mit HST tops it off for me. I've done two summers of research with tuberculosis during high school, which piqued my interest in MD/PhD programs. After attending a few lectures from HST professors, my heart was set on HST. Due to my interests in becoming a medical scientist, I declined the 6 year BA/MD with PennSt/Jefferson and will be attending MIT this fall.

Basically what I want to know is: what does it take to get into HST and similar programs? What kind of students do the adcoms look for? Are there any majors that I should look into? (I really want to do Biological Engineering but it's new this year at MIT and will be selected by a 20 person lottery so I need to look at alternatives). Can anyone give ma a basic track of my undergraduate years that I should follow?

I know my goals can change and I may seem a bit overambitious, but my philosophy is that one can never start too early. So, any advice?

Thanks for the read.

Did you take over a sibling's account or did you actually join SDN when you were 10 years old?

edit: My bad didn't realize that someone bumped a post from 2005.

avgn · Aug 7, 2015

NotASerialKiller said:
Did you take over a sibling's account or did you actually join SDN when you were 10 years old?

edit: My bad didn't realize that someone bumped a post from 2005.

Lol rekt

streetlight · Mar 15, 2019

Sorry to bump once again, but didn't realize that my original post from 2005 has gotten bumped through the years. This is my first time back on SDN in forever and it is pretty funny to look back on my post from almost 14 years ago (feeling olddddd).

As an update, I did end up applying for MSTP but last minute pulled out and applied MD-only after I really thought through my career goals in surgery. I was accepted to my dream at HST and I think all the advice people put in this thread was correct. The coursework at MIT was tough to maintain a high GPA while being distracted by the rest of college, but I had plenty of local opportunities to form strong relationships with research mentors affiliated with HST and probably helped with a "phone call". I also was able to narrate a unique story for myself. I did however see a lot of premeds get decimated through the years by MIT and drop off along the way (I imagine that happens at most schools too, but I only have my n=1 experience). HST opened a lot of doors, and closed some others. I ended up not being a hardcore scientist/researcher but appreciated my exposure to "what's new" in science. Now I'm a senior integrated plastic surgery resident starting to look for my first job.

A few tips:
- Incredibly, I agree with 18 year old me: "my philosophy is that one can never start too early". I still think being overly prepared with all the data in front of you can help make the best decisions. Interestingly enough, when you walk into the entryway of Vanderbilt Hall at HMS, Louis Pasteur's quote is emblazoned on the ceiling: "In the fields of observation, chance favors the prepared mind."
- Use other's negativity as fuel to keep you grinding towards your goals. "That's not the way most people do X" has one of my biggest drivers.
- Create connections and maintain those connections. Medicine and likely your specialty are small worlds - and people are usually willing to help. Help those around you even if they don't ask for it.
- Find mentors wherever you can and help them out when you can. Time is expensive for them, so any skillset you can provide in exchange for their mentorship and support I think is warranted. Don't do total scut work though - your brain has value (I quit a lab on the spot when they told me putting together the new lab printer is a good "learning experience" for me).
- Being a Yankees fan in Boston is really rough. 10 years rough. Also, the dean of HST is a huge Red Sox fan. Luckily I was there in 2009 when the Yankees won the World Series

Good luck everyone! Shoot for the stars, you're doing a disservice to yourself to shoot for anything less.

scrapy · Mar 15, 2019

streetlight said:
Sorry to bump once again, but didn't realize that my original post from 2005 has gotten bumped through the years. This is my first time back on SDN in forever and it is pretty funny to look back on my post from almost 14 years ago (feeling olddddd).

As an update, I did end up applying for MSTP but last minute pulled out and applied MD-only after I really thought through my career goals in surgery. I was accepted to my dream at HST and I think all the advice people put in this thread was correct. The coursework at MIT was tough to maintain a high GPA while being distracted by the rest of college, but I had plenty of local opportunities to form strong relationships with research mentors affiliated with HST and probably helped with a "phone call". I also was able to narrate a unique story for myself. I did however see a lot of premeds get decimated through the years by MIT and drop off along the way (I imagine that happens at most schools too, but I only have my n=1 experience). HST opened a lot of doors, and closed some others. I ended up not being a hardcore scientist/researcher but appreciated my exposure to "what's new" in science. Now I'm a senior integrated plastic surgery resident starting to look for my first job.

A few tips:
- Incredibly, I agree with 18 year old me: "my philosophy is that one can never start too early". I still think being overly prepared with all the data in front of you can help make the best decisions. Interestingly enough, when you walk into the entryway of Vanderbilt Hall at HMS, Louis Pasteur's quote is emblazoned on the ceiling: "In the fields of observation, chance favors the prepared mind."
- Use other's negativity as fuel to keep you grinding towards your goals. "That's not the way most people do X" has one of my biggest drivers.
- Create connections and maintain those connections. Medicine and likely your specialty are small worlds - and people are usually willing to help. Help those around you even if they don't ask for it.
- Find mentors wherever you can and help them out when you can. Time is expensive for them, so any skillset you can provide in exchange for their mentorship and support I think is warranted. Don't do total scut work though - your brain has value (I quit a lab on the spot when they told me putting together the new lab printer is a good "learning experience" for me).
- Being a Yankees fan in Boston is really rough. 10 years rough. Also, the dean of HST is a huge Red Sox fan. Luckily I was there in 2009 when the Yankees won the World Series

Good luck everyone! Shoot for the stars, you're doing a disservice to yourself to shoot for anything less.

How old are you? Asking for a friend.

32?

surfsuncali · Mar 15, 2019

streetlight said:
Sorry to bump once again, but didn't realize that my original post from 2005 has gotten bumped through the years. This is my first time back on SDN in forever and it is pretty funny to look back on my post from almost 14 years ago (feeling olddddd).

As an update, I did end up applying for MSTP but last minute pulled out and applied MD-only after I really thought through my career goals in surgery. I was accepted to my dream at HST and I think all the advice people put in this thread was correct. The coursework at MIT was tough to maintain a high GPA while being distracted by the rest of college, but I had plenty of local opportunities to form strong relationships with research mentors affiliated with HST and probably helped with a "phone call". I also was able to narrate a unique story for myself. I did however see a lot of premeds get decimated through the years by MIT and drop off along the way (I imagine that happens at most schools too, but I only have my n=1 experience). HST opened a lot of doors, and closed some others. I ended up not being a hardcore scientist/researcher but appreciated my exposure to "what's new" in science. Now I'm a senior integrated plastic surgery resident starting to look for my first job.

A few tips:
- Incredibly, I agree with 18 year old me: "my philosophy is that one can never start too early". I still think being overly prepared with all the data in front of you can help make the best decisions. Interestingly enough, when you walk into the entryway of Vanderbilt Hall at HMS, Louis Pasteur's quote is emblazoned on the ceiling: "In the fields of observation, chance favors the prepared mind."
- Use other's negativity as fuel to keep you grinding towards your goals. "That's not the way most people do X" has one of my biggest drivers.
- Create connections and maintain those connections. Medicine and likely your specialty are small worlds - and people are usually willing to help. Help those around you even if they don't ask for it.
- Find mentors wherever you can and help them out when you can. Time is expensive for them, so any skillset you can provide in exchange for their mentorship and support I think is warranted. Don't do total scut work though - your brain has value (I quit a lab on the spot when they told me putting together the new lab printer is a good "learning experience" for me).
- Being a Yankees fan in Boston is really rough. 10 years rough. Also, the dean of HST is a huge Red Sox fan. Luckily I was there in 2009 when the Yankees won the World Series

Good luck everyone! Shoot for the stars, you're doing a disservice to yourself to shoot for anything less.

This thread is bonkers, this kind of thing is so rare. Kudos to you, this is really inspiring for someone starting med school next year! :clap:

LizzyM · Mar 15, 2019

Thrilled to see someone who has been on SDN longer than I have. Talk about feeling old!

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