How much more difficult is Step 2 as a med student than the MCAT as a premed?

[tunaktunak]

Let me first (try to) clarify what I'm asking.

I definitely understand that the material on Step 2 is way more in-depth and vast than for the MCAT. However, I am talking more about relative difficulty. As a premed, I thought the MCAT was very difficult (I spent 5 months of near constant studying for it, since I'm not a great standardized test taker, and I did relatively well but not superb). I'm sure many current high STEP 2 scorers thought the MCAT was very difficult when they were once a premed. However, a med student studying for STEP, as opposed to a premed studying for the MCAT, is also provided a plethora of resources for studying directly from the school, including dedicated study time.

I guess what I'm asking is, can I compare my experience studying and taking the MCAT as a premed to my future experience taking STEP 2 as a med student? Can I somewhat guess what I might score on STEP 2 CK based on the percentile of my MCAT score?

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[Goro]

I haven't seen any data yet that correlates Step 2 with MCAT score. I think you're engaging in a fool's errand.

 

[GoPenguinsGo]

Don't even go there.

But OP already *went* there!!!

 

[tunaktunak]

Don't even go there.

Lol the only reason I'm asking is to see if I can predict if I'll be able to pursue something like ortho/derm/plastics (with Step 1 going P/F and Step 2 CK being given significantly more weight for residency applications). I'm guessing what you're saying is that Step 2 is a completely different beast compared to the MCAT, even when looking at it relatively?

 

[Banco]

I thought it was “easier” in terms of the dedicated study period. I studied using a QBank for 4 weeks and that was that.

However, you also have to go through clerkship year and take shelf exams for every rotation - this is step 2 material. That’s way harder than any pre-med academic requirements.

Not sure if you’ll be able to correlate your MCAT performance to step 2 though. I wouldn’t go into medical school with that mindset. Pursue what you’re interested in.

 

[Goro]

Lol the only reason I'm asking is to see if I can predict if I'll be able to pursue something like ortho/derm/plastics (with Step 1 going P/F and Step 2 CK being given significantly more weight for residency applications). I'm guessing what you're saying is that Step 2 is a completely different beast compared to the MCAT, even when looking at it relatively?

You have to stop thinking this way. Suppose that you are good at preclinical but bomb the humanistic part of Medicine, ie, your clinicals...No perfect Step score is going to counter that.

 

[LondonVibes]

You have to stop thinking this way. Suppose that you are good at preclinical but bomb the humanistic part of Medicine, ie, your clinicals...No perfect Step score is going to counter that.

Wouldn’t step 2 be given a much higher rating than clinicals because of its objectivity? With clinicals, you’ll always have hospitals and rotations where the residents are grumpier or more biased, but everyone’s Step exams are scored on the same scale.

 

[SmallFish7]

You have to stop thinking this way. Suppose that you are good at preclinical but bomb the humanistic part of Medicine, ie, your clinicals...No perfect Step score is going to counter that.

I mean wouldn't the converse also be true? Suppose that you are good at clinicals but bomb the academic part of Medicine, ie, your Step 2...No perfect clinicals are going to counter that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to see if MCAT scores are predictive of Step 2 in any way, especially when you'll get your Step 2 score so late in the game to pivot if it goes badly.

 

[deleted1025488]

The MCAT is pretty different. It's asking you about a superficial knowledge of countless relatively simple concepts. It also has CARS. Not sure if you can really can, or should, compare the two. At the end of the day hard work will get you what you want; you're not gated by anyone but yourself.

 

[tunaktunak]

I mean wouldn't the converse also be true? Suppose that you are good at clinicals but bomb the academic part of Medicine, ie, your Step 2...No perfect clinicals are going to counter that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to see if MCAT scores are predictive of Step 2 in any way, especially when you'll get your Step 2 score so late in the game to pivot if it goes badly.

This is precisely what I am worried about. Step 2 is so late in the game but also extremely important now. I've talked one on one with current med students who had a dream specialty in mind, but after getting a bad Step 1 score which wasn't competitive enough for that field, they went other routes. With Step 1 going P/F for me and Step 2 CK after 3rd year being the only objective score on my residency app, I'm afraid I won't have enough time to change trajectory in time for residency apps if I need to.

I understand this is a problem for later on, but as I begin getting involved in ECs, research, and leadership positions as a med student, I figured it would be good to set realistic goals for myself.

 

[Lucca]

MCAT and Step exams are not comparable. Not because the difficulty level but because they are completely different kinds of exams. Just dont worry about this until you actually do medical school.

 

[Goro]

Wouldn’t step 2 be given a much higher rating than clinicals because of its objectivity? With clinicals, you’ll always have hospitals and rotations where the residents are grumpier or more biased, but everyone’s Step exams are scored on the same scale.

Wouldn’t step 2 be given a much higher rating than clinicals because of its objectivity? With clinicals, you’ll always have hospitals and rotations where the residents are grumpier or more biased, but everyone’s Step exams are scored on the same scale.

And this is why CARS is on the MCAT. Here is what I wrote:

Suppose that you are good at preclinical but bomb the humanistic part of Medicine, ie, your clinicals...No perfect Step score is going to counter that.

The OP is wasting their time trying to link MCAT to Step 2 when
A) no known linkage exists
B) A high Step2 score in and of itself is worthless, and single metrics do not make an app to residency.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

This is precisely what I am worried about. Step 2 is so late in the game but also extremely important now. I've talked one on one with current med students who had a dream specialty in mind, but after getting a bad Step 1 score which wasn't competitive enough for that field, they went other routes. With Step 1 going P/F for me and Step 2 CK after 3rd year being the only objective score on my residency app, I'm afraid I won't have enough time to change trajectory in time for residency apps if I need to.

I understand this is a problem for later on, but as I begin getting involved in ECs, research, and leadership positions as a med student, I figured it would be good to set realistic goals for myself.

This seems like a very valid question. I can't answer but Step 1 being P/F does create the situation where the fork in the specialty choice road is further down the line.

 

[sarcasmrules]

I can say right now, Step 2 is harder than the MCAT. Why? Because you haven't studied for it or taken the classes that expose you to Step 2 material yet because it's an apples and oranges comparison. Take a chill pill and relax.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

I can say right now, Step 2 is harder than the MCAT. Why? Because you haven't studied for it or taken the classes that expose you to Step 2 material yet because it's an apples and oranges comparison. Take a chill pill and relax.

How would you know ? Have you even applied to medical school yet ?

 

[sarcasmrules]

How would you know ? Have you even applied to medical school yet ?

Reread what I said, but slowly.😉

 

[sarcasmrules]

OP, you also need to realize a few things:
1. Statistics applies to populations, not individuals. If you slack off in medical school, you can do poorly on Step 2 but do well on the MCAT.
2. MCAT score and Step 2 score, assuming a correlation exists, does not mean it's a causation. There are 4 reasons for correlation: X causes Y, Y causes X, a third factor impacts the both of them, chance. In this case, it's a third factor: you, your motivation, dedication, etc. Your MCAT score will not impact your Step 2 score at all. What does affect both of these scores? You. So yes, as @Goro said, you're running a fool's errand.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Reread what I said, but slowly.😉

I'm suggesting you are not in a position to inform on this. But I agree with your other post about jumping rope 😉

 

[Tenk]

The test is harder but by the time you get there, you’re basically a lvl100, grandmaster, super saiyan test taker so it is not nearly as bad.

 

[sarcasmrules]

I'm suggesting you are not in a position to inform on this. But I agree with your other post about jumping rope 😉

I'll admit I'm not in a position to give any direct advice about Step 2 but I'm not giving advice on Step 2. I'm explaining the reason for any correlation (if it exists) between the MCAT and Step 2. Also, the reason I said Step 2 is harder was a joke because no premed has been exposed to any material from Step 2. Thus, as of the premed stage, it would be harder. So here's the breakdown:

The setup: I say Step 2 is harder (as if to say I'm in a position to say that when I'm not).

The punch line: It's harder because you haven't studied for it yet, like any other standardized test. Just like how the MCAT is easier for premeds than the LSAT, the GRE, etc because they didn't study for those tests.

A fellow jump rope fanatic! Nice to meet you!

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Step 2 is harder, albeit a completely different beast.

Also remember the test taking pool. On the Step exams you’re competing a against a very accomplished test taking cohort, whereas with the MCAT there are more than a few poor academic takers. Went from ~90th%ile MCAT to 70th%ile Step scores

I think someone already mentioned it but statistical trends from populations have essentially zero bearing on how you will perform as an individual.

 

[Lucca]

Step 2 is harder, albeit a completely different beast.

Also remember the test taking pool. On the Step exams you’re competing a against a very accomplished test taking cohort, whereas with the MCAT there are more than a few poor academic takers. Went from ~90th%ile MCAT to 70th%ile Step scores

I think someone already mentioned it but statistical trends from populations have essentially zero bearing on how you will perform as an individual.

It's also worth mentioning that a 70th percentile Step score is still a very good score, so there is less pressure to be in the top 1-2% of scorers compared to the MCAT. And of course, now, that is all done away with. A 195, "barely passing" step 1 score is in the bottom 5% of takers currently.

But ya, like everyone has said, I'd agree that "just passing" step 1 is much, much harder than getting a solid MCAT score. Step exams are impossible to pass without a good deal of knowledge. A very good standardized exam taker could get a 500 on the MCAT with very little knowledge.

 

[YCAGA]

I feel the same way. Honestly, I’m scared to dedicate my first 3 years of med school to building a strong app for a competitive specialty when a test at the end of M3 could wipe out any chances I had of matching into said specialty. Because of this, I doubt I’ll seriously consider any competitive specialties, even if they do interest me.

Edit:
It’s especially scary given the very low match rates into certain competitive specialties in 2020 (ortho, NSG, ENT, and plastics were all ~75% for US MD seniors).

They have been around 70-80% for MD seniors for years. Probably decades

 

[YCAGA]

In terms of amount of content, the Step exams blow the MCAT out of the water. The MCAT can be “passed” (500+) with like 3,000 Anki cards worth of facts. The Step 1 decks are like 30,000 cards…

I use 500 as “passing” the MCAT because that’s good enough to get you into many DO schools.

 

[acstylin]

Numbers don’t tell a complete story at this level. Some people can jump in a pool and are naturally fast swimmers. Others learn to be fast by outworking everyone else in the pool. On the day of the swim meet, how do you differentiate the naturally fast swimmers from the workhorses if you only look at the finish time? My point is, high scores are usually showing the results of completely different journeys. Your path can only be dictated by you and you will deservingly earn the score you work for.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Let me first (try to) clarify what I'm asking.

I definitely understand that the material on Step 2 is way more in-depth and vast than for the MCAT. However, I am talking more about relative difficulty. As a premed, I thought the MCAT was very difficult (I spent 5 months of near constant studying for it, since I'm not a great standardized test taker, and I did relatively well but not superb). I'm sure many current high STEP 2 scorers thought the MCAT was very difficult when they were once a premed. However, a med student studying for STEP, as opposed to a premed studying for the MCAT, is also provided a plethora of resources for studying directly from the school, including dedicated study time.

I guess what I'm asking is, can I compare my experience studying and taking the MCAT as a premed to my future experience taking STEP 2 as a med student? Can I somewhat guess what I might score on STEP 2 CK based on the percentile of my MCAT score?

A study of the correlation of the old MCAT and Steps 1 and 2 was actually conducted.
Do MCAT scores predict USMLE scores? An analysis on 5 years of medical student data (nih.gov)

There is in fact a positive but weak correlation between the old MCAT and each of the two Step exams.

 

[Mad Jack]

MCAT felt like more of a slog but they were equally difficult tests in competely different ways

 

[mmchick]

I think Step 1 correlates more with the MCAT than Step 2. Step 1 is more "book" knowledge that is comparable to how you study/the nature of information you study for in the MCAT. Step 2 is more clinical reasoning and asks you to essentially utilize what you've learned in clerkship once you've seen actual patients and had part in managing their care.

You'll be taking tests the rest of your life as a physician. I think it'd be a waste of your energy trying to decide "well how hard is the next one going to be". Save that bridge for when you have to cross it and decide if preparing for hard examinations is going to be something you're up for in your career.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

imo, MCAT is much easier to game as a "good test taker" than the step exams. Testing skills still help a lot for Step, but you really do need that content knowledge. You definitely need strong content for the science sections of the MCAT, but if you're naturally good at things like CARS that can really help carry an MCAT score without any additional studying

 

[Pshalt]

Lol the only reason I'm asking is to see if I can predict if I'll be able to pursue something like ortho/derm/plastics (with Step 1 going P/F and Step 2 CK being given significantly more weight for residency applications). I'm guessing what you're saying is that Step 2 is a completely different beast compared to the MCAT, even when looking at it relatively?

I think I must be old but 25 years ago I barely have any recollection of my Step 2 test or scores. 2 weeks, 2 days, number 2 pencil was how we studied for the Steps. I don't think it played any role in my residency acceptance. AOA, clinical rotations, and LOR do the heavy lifting. I do think its fair to say if you score exceptionally high on MCAT, you are smart and/or work your ass off. You will do fine but focus on more important things than a standardized test.

 

[doomer_md]

Depends on your strengths. The Step exams are mostly memorization while the MCAT is more reasoning skills and data interpretation. Step 2 is probably easier for the people with good memory, short attention spans, and are bad at math.