Unsolicited Jobs Thread

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There are some decent jobs posted on the ASTRO board.
I got my job through "networking", but our practice has posted on ASTRO and is a good single specialty private practice. Location may not be for all, but we got multiple whole foods/trader joes, all the professional sports teams. Seems like the other good large practices (like ROA in DC area) seem to post on ASTRO.

When I was looking for jobs, I only seriously considered a job in a location that had a whole foods. I do not shop there, but that is a good metric for a place that was livable for me and my spouse.
 
yesmaster said:
Hearsay is that Kokomo, Indiana job was surprisingly good. I still regret not applying.
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I know you meant this in earnest but it’s being looked at as a joke.

Let me clarify.

The Kokomo practice is indeed good.

Also I advise people looking at the map. Kokomo is in the Indy metro area. The people that work there live like in Carmel.

If this type of job is being seen as ‘bad’, a lot of you have truly lost the plot.
 
No, it makes the most sense as a joke.
Kokomo, IN is definitely not in the Indianapolis metro, and even if it were this would be a very strange flex.
I have known many docs, myself included that commute over an hour outside of a metro to a rural location. It is brutal even less than 5 days a week. You leave at 6am and get home at 8pm and you are mentally exhausted from the drive so forget about any sort of exercise, social activities, or hobbies in the evening.

That's great if it admin treats the docs there well and pays them well, but be honest, the location of Kokomo would be completely unacceptable for > 90% of rad oncs. Even the central Indianapolis metro would probably be unacceptable to 90% of the peak rad onc cohort.
 
The Kokomo, IN was a good job based on the grapevine.

Anyways, I see the rad onc job market deteriorating further in the coming years for graduating residents. Simple formula for rad onc jobs is:

(A) number of insured patients divided by (B) number of clinical rad onc's

1. The BBB tax bill's cuts to Medicaid will lower the number of insured patients by millions (A drops)
2. NIH cuts research support for academic rad onc's, forcing them to do more clinical work to make up the difference (B rises)
3. Approximately half of states have pending or active legislation allowing FMG's to work in the US without going through residency or fellowship (B rises)
4. AI increases productivity of rad onc's (B rises, effectively)
5. ICE deports millions, disproportionately affecting safety net hospitals in states like California and Texas (A drops)
 
‘the location of Kokomo would be completely unacceptable for > 90% of rad oncs.’

This is so ridiculous

What are we even doing at this point?

So jobs are ONLY good if they are in a major city proper. Suburbs NOT okay?

rad onc never ever ever would have been an acceptable field by that definition

**** it, let the major hostile systems just hire us all.

The field is clearly ripe now for a handful of central rad oncs to just run all the other clinics I guess with an army of PAs and NPs who are willing to live outside the loop of a major top 25 city
 
drowsy12 said:
‘the location of Kokomo would be completely unacceptable for > 90% of rad oncs.’

This is so ridiculous

What are we even doing at this point?

So jobs are ONLY good if they are in a major city proper. Suburbs NOT okay?

rad onc never ever ever would have been an acceptable field by that definition

**** it, let the major hostile systems just hire us all.

The field is clearly ripe now for a handful of central rad oncs to just run all the other clinics I guess with an army of PAs and NPs who are willing to live outside the loop of a major top 25 city
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I think it is fair statement. 15 years ago, it would take 800k+ offer to land a radonc for this job. How much do you think it would take to recruit a urologist or ortho to Kokomo?
 
RickyScott said:
I think it is fair statement. 15 years ago, it would take 800k+ offer to land a radonc for this job. How much do you think it would take to recruit a urologist or ortho to Kokomo?
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This statement would make sense if rad oncs there were making low amounts of money. It’s a good job.
 
I believe you that it is a good job. I have spent most of my career taking these kinds of jobs in place most would not consider. I finally have a good one in a similar place to Kokomo, also. But don't gaslight everyone. There is a reason these jobs are constantly posted and we all get spammed multiple times a day trying to fill places with names that sound like they are made up. There is a reason that they have to pay agencies ridiculous rates to put a warm body there for a few weeks at a time. The vast majority of rad oncs and most specialists want to live in HCOL metro areas. Seriously, these are non-starters for so many because their spouse would instantly divorce them. I'm not sure why you're so worked up. I agree with you that these can be good jobs, but it doesn't affect me because I am willing to drive 3 hours a day and take them. Most aren't/can't.

The point is that it's a state of how much the rad onc job market sucks when everything that is advertised is some 30k town you have never heard of. You drank the ROCR kool-aid and are cheerleading for the academic centers. It's ok and I don't fault you for that. I mean, I don't know why, but that's your business. But you have to tell the truth and live in reality. The overwhelming majority of rad oncs are not going to be willing to move after residency to lay down roots in Carmel, IN and spend nearly 2 hours a day on the road. At any price.

Also, please quantify just how good this job is. $/RVU, # RVUs, # days/week, PTO, joint venture/profit sharing, etc.
800k 15 years ago is 1.2M today.
 
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And if you have a problem with the fact that 90% of rad oncs want to live in wealthy areas on the coasts or in the mountain west then blame the academics that preferentially filled the specialty with these kinds of gunner med students who were torn between derm, plastic surgery, and rad onc back when the specialty didn't have a joke of a match rate. Nobody cared that I was from a small town and interested in working in a rural community after residency. At all.
 
alwaysbeIMRTing said:
And if you have a problem with the fact that 90% of rad oncs want to live in wealthy areas on the coasts or in the mountain west then blame the academics that preferentially filled the specialty with these kinds of gunner med students who were torn between derm, plastic surgery, and rad onc back when the specialty didn't have a joke of a match rate. Nobody cared that I was from a small town and interested in working in a rural community after residency. At all.
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I mean back then it was more about #pubs and weather or not your dad ran a training program. Rural health? That’s for the birds
 
alwaysbeIMRTing said:
And if you have a problem with the fact that 90% of rad oncs want to live in wealthy areas on the coasts or in the mountain west then blame the academics that preferentially filled the specialty with these kinds of gunner med students who were torn between derm, plastic surgery, and rad onc back when the specialty didn't have a joke of a match rate. Nobody cared that I was from a small town and interested in working in a rural community after residency. At all.
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Can't really publish about a rural rad onc shortage if there isn't one...
 
Ray D. Ayshun said:
Can't really publish about a rural rad onc shortage if there isn't one...
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This is the funny one to me and doesn't get enough attention. Going off memory on some of this, but there is data that a low single percentage number of patients live outside of an hour drive from a linac, and when you spread that out across the whole united states you're going to get populations of very rural locations, think small towns where you know everyone's name and has a single small gas station.

So people use this as a defense of why they need to expand residency positions or virtue signal or whatever makes them feel good. Places would need to completely fund a giant multi million dollar building/machine and pay significant amounts for maintenance and workers to be there, but not many places are willing to take that hit and write it off on their taxes and pat themselves on the back. So they expand positions under a guise and then those people also take jobs at the locoregional North East or California or Miami satellites of 100k populations and never end up in one of those extremely rural positions, partly because they don't exist because there is not a facility there and no one wants to spend the money to build a facility and maintain it and it's employees, and partly because they are recruiting people who don't even want that type of job in the first place or anything that even smells close to that job.

They're trying to recruit people who would love to publish on the needs, but who don't want to do anything to help those needs

They call that a paradox.

 
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It’s messed up — in terms of America’s healthcare system and the dummies that run our academic systems - that installing a LINAC or DaVinci robot in 25-50k town is reasonable, but there’s no decent grocery stores or healthy restaurants in those towns that aren’t Taco Bell, McDonald’s, Panda Express.

But we’ll gladly take out your gallbladder or radiate your rectal cancer because we care.
 
yesmaster said:
It’s messed up — in terms of America’s healthcare system and the dummies that run our academic systems - that installing a LINAC or DaVinci robot in 25-50k town is reasonable, but there’s no decent grocery stores or healthy restaurants in those towns that aren’t Taco Bell, McDonald’s, Panda Express.

But we’ll gladly take out your gallbladder or radiate your rectal cancer because we care.
Click to expand...
You sub black beans into that mexican pizza, you got yourself a deal, good and good for you
 
alwaysbeIMRTing said:
I believe you that it is a good job. I have spent most of my career taking these kinds of jobs in place most would not consider. I finally have a good one in a similar place to Kokomo, also. But don't gaslight everyone. There is a reason these jobs are constantly posted and we all get spammed multiple times a day trying to fill places with names that sound like they are made up. There is a reason that they have to pay agencies ridiculous rates to put a warm body there for a few weeks at a time. The vast majority of rad oncs and most specialists want to live in HCOL metro areas. Seriously, these are non-starters for so many because their spouse would instantly divorce them. I'm not sure why you're so worked up. I agree with you that these can be good jobs, but it doesn't affect me because I am willing to drive 3 hours a day and take them. Most aren't/can't.

The point is that it's a state of how much the rad onc job market sucks when everything that is advertised is some 30k town you have never heard of. You drank the ROCR kool-aid and are cheerleading for the academic centers. It's ok and I don't fault you for that. I mean, I don't know why, but that's your business. But you have to tell the truth and live in reality. The overwhelming majority of rad oncs are not going to be willing to move after residency to lay down roots in Carmel, IN and spend nearly 2 hours a day on the road. At any price.

Also, please quantify just how good this job is. $/RVU, # RVUs, # days/week, PTO, joint venture/profit sharing, etc.
800k 15 years ago is 1.2M today.
Click to expand...
Alright, so I'm new to all this, so apologies if this is something really basic I don't understand, but why do you need to spend 2 hours a day on the road? Is there no housing available close to the hospital you work at or something? Or you're saying 2 hours because your spouse won't get a job there?
 
allseasons said:
Alright, so I'm new to all this, so apologies if this is something really basic I don't understand, but why do you need to spend 2 hours a day on the road? Is there no housing available close to the hospital you work at or something? Or you're saying 2 hours because your spouse won't get a job there?
Click to expand...
Nobody wants to live in these middle of nowhere places. Esp if spouse needs larger city for a good job
 
allseasons said:
Alright, so I'm new to all this, so apologies if this is something really basic I don't understand, but why do you need to spend 2 hours a day on the road? Is there no housing available close to the hospital you work at or something? Or you're saying 2 hours because your spouse won't get a job there?
Click to expand...
The answer to your question is basically yes to all of it.

And it's not even your spouse. I tried living in one of these 20k population places alone (yes, kokomo is more like 60k, so it won't be as bad but similar challenges will apply). You have a limited grocery store and a handful of dollar general stores. All of your shopping for basic necessities will therefore be done at Wal-Mart (who with the hospital account for the majority of employment in the town). There are few or none reasonable rentals (I literally lived in hospital-owned housing for a year because there was no other choice besides the holiday inn express). So expect your housing to be a 50 year old 1500 sq ft ranch if you ever want a chance of selling it when you move. Recreation and social activities will be limited. You'll either have to drive a few hours to a decent sized airport or you have a local airport with one or two flights a day to a hub, which severely limits your ability to leave for weekend trips. There is lots of poverty and drug problems in these towns due to unemployment and the societal ills that go along with that. And the biggest problem is these small towns can be very inbred, close-minded, and unwelcoming to outsiders. I would not do this again. If there's a reasonable metro nearby, you have to live there and commute in, or you could consider building on acreage in the surrounding country if you plan on sticking around. You do not want to actually live in the town. Some of these hospitals want the doctor to live in the community and to never leave and believe they can offer the same as a suburban practice in a medium or large metro. These are the places that have recruiting and retention problems.
 
drowsy12 said:
‘the location of Kokomo would be completely unacceptable for > 90% of rad oncs.’

This is so ridiculous

What are we even doing at this point?

So jobs are ONLY good if they are in a major city proper. Suburbs NOT okay?

rad onc never ever ever would have been an acceptable field by that definition

**** it, let the major hostile systems just hire us all.

The field is clearly ripe now for a handful of central rad oncs to just run all the other clinics I guess with an army of PAs and NPs who are willing to live outside the loop of a major top 25 city
Click to expand...
Dude/dudette. I'm usually with you, and I don't have a dog in this fight between you and 'AlwaysBeImrting (ABI?)' but checking Google Maps, Kokomo is over an hour from downtown Indianpolis. The only job being you live in ONE specific suburban region of a city and then commute the opposite direction each and every day.... Kokomo is not a suburb. Carmel is 45 minutes away. Round trip, 5 days a week, that is not ideal.

Maybe 90% is a stretch. But many a Rad Onc would not be happy long-term in Kokomo.
 
There are multiple MDACC grads at the Kokomo job. That's how you know it's a good job. 45 minutes from an 'elite' suburb where most of them doctors live is not that bad.

my point is that if this job's location is terrible, then there just aren't many jobs that ARE in good locations.

the vast majority of true metro jobs are in academics.

has anyone looked at where the actual locations are in practices like Tennessee Oncology, the Indianapolis group, Minnesota Oncology, ROC in Chicago? like if you want to be 'in' a city, it's likely youre working in a place like this if youre not in academics

my bigger point is that this is not new to rad onc and has always been like this, so I guess I go back to what I said: The field is clearly ripe now for a handful of central rad oncs to just run all the other clinics I guess with an army of PAs and NPs who are willing to live outside the loop of a major top 25 city
 
drowsy12 said:
There are multiple MDACC grads at the Kokomo job. That's how you know it's a good job. 45 minutes from an 'elite' suburb where most of them doctors live is not that bad.

my point is that if this job's location is terrible, then there just aren't many jobs that ARE in good locations.

the vast majority of true metro jobs are in academics.

has anyone looked at where the actual locations are in practices like Tennessee Oncology, the Indianapolis group, Minnesota Oncology, ROC in Chicago? like if you want to be 'in' a city, it's likely youre working in a place like this if youre not in academics

my bigger point is that this is not new to rad onc and has always been like this, so I guess I go back to what I said: The field is clearly ripe now for a handful of central rad oncs to just run all the other clinics I guess with an army of PAs and NPs who are willing to live outside the loop of a major top 25 city
Click to expand...
Dude/ette, what? Are you serious with that bolded justification?

MDACC grads run the same gamut of being really good or really bad. They train so many every year that the # of not great clinically people they train is probably numerically higher than other small residency programs!

The percentage is the same as all other Rad Onc residencies. Some of the best Rad Onc physicians I've met were MDACC/MSKCC/HROP residency grads. Some of the worst doctors I've met are MDACC/MSKCC/HROP residency grads. This is a very strange appeal to a brand name for an educated Rad Onc physician....

I'm not sure which center in Kokomo is hiring, but is it just because the center has MDACC in the name? Which, I hope we can agree on, that a community hospital paying MDACC $$$$/year to slap their name on your center, is primarily a marketing gimmick and doesn't actually improve outcomes?
 
Pointing out that MD Anderson residents are taking jobs in <checks map> Kokomo, Indiania is not the flex you think it is in terms of current strength of rad onc labor demand. And that you can get to the office from the farthest flung suburb of <checks map> Indianapolis, Indiania, in only 45 minutes if you drive 100 mph and run every red light.
 
The multiple MDACC in a 50k town with another competing hospital is what really got me. But I'm sure it's a good job, I hope it is.

People really think we need mid level encroachment?
 
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I heard Kokomo is a decent job. I don’t know any details.

Big 2 places (MDA/MSKCC) grads do get good placement, generally. I wouldn’t say they consistently land in amazing places, but they do okay as a group. Inherently there is a fair amount of groupthink in places like MDA, that combined with their alumni network and MDA marketing network, and there’s some clumping. Some of their recent grads have gone to City of Hope, is that an amazing job, not sure but likely Percy Lee is pulling strings for them. Paths of least resistance.
 
evilbooyaa said:
Dude/ette, what? Are you serious with that bolded justification?

MDACC grads run the same gamut of being really good or really bad. They train so many every year that the # of not great clinically people they train is probably numerically higher than other small residency programs!

The percentage is the same as all other Rad Onc residencies. Some of the best Rad Onc physicians I've met were MDACC/MSKCC/HROP residency grads. Some of the worst doctors I've met are MDACC/MSKCC/HROP residency grads. This is a very strange appeal to a brand name for an educated Rad Onc physician....

I'm not sure which center in Kokomo is hiring, but is it just because the center has MDACC in the name? Which, I hope we can agree on, that a community hospital paying MDACC $$$$/year to slap their name on your center, is primarily a marketing gimmick and doesn't actually improve outcomes?
Click to expand...

I’m not saying it means they are good docs! Or better than anyone else!!

Im saying that they have access to ‘good’ PP jobs. Theres a Florida practice like that too where they make bank.


Same as how Princeton rad onc historically hired from a few places.
 
I do think the MDA residents have more access and knowledge of the job market than typical residents. Just by sheer numbers, they probably have a better sense of what an average, +1 SD, +2 SD job looks like in academics and community.
 
drowsy12 said:
I’m not saying it means they are good docs! Or better than anyone else!!

Im saying that they have access to ‘good’ PP jobs. Theres a Florida practice like that too where they make bank.


Same as how Princeton rad onc historically hired from a few places.
Click to expand...
I don't know if SERO, the princeton group, INOVA, ROA, and other well-known reputable PPs are all equally comparable to a position in Kokomo, Indiana.

Maybe it is. We'll agree to disagree.
 
Competition heating up for McMurdo air base in antarctica. Free meals and lodging for your family. Shared use of snowmobile. Outdoorsman paradise. Only rad onc on continent maximum RVU potential to make bank. MD Anderson grads strapped in next to me on the cargo plane down to interview. Job market is on fire.

I actually do know of an ob/gyn who went to antarctica to work. He really, really hated his wife.
 
alwaysbeIMRTing said:
Competition heating up for McMurdo air base in antarctica. Free meals and lodging for your family. Shared use of snowmobile. Outdoorsman paradise. Only rad onc on continent maximum RVU potential to make bank. MD Anderson grads strapped in next to me on the cargo plane down to interview. Job market is on fire.

I actually do know of an ob/gyn who went to antarctica to work. He really, really hated his wife.
Click to expand...
In all seriousness I remember reading about a family practice doc who diagnosed herself with breast cancer in Antarctica and they couldn’t land (bad time of year) so they air dropped her some neoadjuvant chemo and she treated her own damn self for a few months.
 
There was also the Russian guy who removed his own appendix in the middle of a blizzard. Meanwhile rad oncs are having to hand off imaging checks at the machine and OTV management to "advanced" practitioners. But we memorized the LRR p-value on PORTEC-2 to three decimal points so we earned the big bucks.
 
TheWallnerus said:
In all seriousness I remember reading about a family practice doc who diagnosed herself with breast cancer in Antarctica and they couldn’t land (bad time of year) so they air dropped her some neoadjuvant chemo and she treated her own damn self for a few months.
Click to expand...
Was all over the news at the time

www.cancernetwork.com

Physician Recalls Breast Cancer Battle at the South Pole

NEW YORK-"I’m going to die," Jerri Nielsen, MD, recalled thinking when she discovered a lump in her right breast while she was the physician at the Admundsen-Scott South Pole Station. "I’m going to die here, or I’m going to die after I get off the ice."
www.cancernetwork.com www.cancernetwork.com
 
medgator said:
Was all over the news at the time

www.cancernetwork.com

Physician Recalls Breast Cancer Battle at the South Pole

NEW YORK-"I’m going to die," Jerri Nielsen, MD, recalled thinking when she discovered a lump in her right breast while she was the physician at the Admundsen-Scott South Pole Station. "I’m going to die here, or I’m going to die after I get off the ice."
www.cancernetwork.com www.cancernetwork.com
Click to expand...
When heavy machine mechanics were giving her IVs and chemo… were supervision rules violated? Talk about encroachment!
 
If the radiology assistant role takes off, I also want a APRR pathway, advanced practice rad onc radiologist, the idea is to supplement my interpretation of imaging I order with AI annotation for incidental findings, allowing me to bill for PET/CT’s, MRI’s, bone scans, and the like. Benefits include minimizing delays to patient care and reduced patient anxiety, and reduced demands on the diagnostic rads workforce.
 
yesmaster said:
If a family medicine doc can give herself chemotherapy, can we start giving systemic tx? I call it APRO advanced practice radiation oncologists, we only give routine systemic agents with forgiving side effect profile and high margins.
Click to expand...
RadOncs can only be encroached on, it can not encroach.

What would have happened if a RadOnc got dropped that box?
 
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yesmaster said:
If a family medicine doc can give herself chemotherapy, can we start giving systemic tx? I call it APRO advanced practice radiation oncologists, we only give routine systemic agents with forgiving side effect profile and high margins.
Click to expand...
It is really remarkable how ASTRO is more likely to endorse scope of practice expansion for RTTs than it is to support the physicians expanding our scope of practice into administering radiosensitizing chemotherapy or IO!
 
alwaysbeIMRTing said:
Here are the current job locations:

  • Arizona (Kingman)
  • California (Lodi)
  • Iowa (Dubuque and Carroll)
  • Illinois (Rockford and Warrenville)
  • Indiana (Crawfordsville, Greenfield, Muncie, and Seymour)
  • Kansas (Salina)
  • Michigan (Saginaw)
  • Minnesota (Duluth and Brainerd)
  • Missouri (West Plains)
  • North Carolina (Henderson)
  • Nebraska (Norfolk)
  • Oregon (Coos Bay and Springfield)
  • Texas (Victoria)
  • Washington State (Moses Lake and Silverdale)
  • Wisconsin (Rhinelander)
C6X6Qi7WYAAOE3q.jpg

BarleyBasket.jpg
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does anyone know anything about Kingman AZ?
 
I’ve been saying this for years. We have the opposite mentality of a surgeon. It’s embarrassing how timid our leadership acts. On a side note, I’m busy enough as is so I haven’t used it as much as I intended, but when I hired an NP, I made sure she was credentialed by the hospital to do punch/shave skin biopsies. So many potential skin cancers to be had in follow-ups. We have a derm group in town with one of those bs superficial machines in town that has some x-ray tech burning people up or missing the target and sending me the recurrences. I’d be doing the patient a favor!
 
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