D.O. that matched allopathic EM programs with COMLEX only?

[Beantown D.O.]

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Hey there...I'm new to the forum. I don't believe this question has been posted yet.

Because I know this will come up..."why don't you just take the USMLE?" This has been discussed agnosium, and I'm not trying to start this debate again.

My situation is that I am a general medical officer in the military planning on applying to allopathic EM programs for geographical reasons. At the time when I took the boards I wasn't concern with taking the USMLE as it was not a requirement for military internship. At this point in time, I am deciding whether to invest the time and money to study for the boards all over again (for USMLE)...It will hurt since I've been out of the med student mentality for > 3yrs and may not do as well as I want to...So, I'm looking for some encouragement. And I realize that board scores probably account 1/5th of selection criteria.

For folks who matched to allopathic programs with COMLEX only, if you don't mind answering a few questions...

1) Where did you match?
2) What were your 3-digit score and percentiles?
3) Interviews offered?

I would appreciate any replies. I know there are many who had >90% on COMLEX, like one of our moderators Dr. Quinn. It would be great to also hear from individuals that had mediocore, yet competitive COMLEX scores who matched allopathic. Thanks and Congratulations to all who matched to EM!

Bean

 

[MasterintuBater]

I had lousy comlex score (50th%). My step II scores were a bit better (75th%). I did not take USMLE. I applied to a lot of programs. 30 I think. I got 14 interviews. I matched to my #1 rank. UofI Peoria. It's a phenomenal program that is less attractive to some because of it's location. But I love it and it was right where I wanted to be. I also rotated here as well as a student. If you have realistic expectations about your scores and the "tier" of the programs that you will competitively considered for, and are willing to be flexible about where you end up, then I would not take the USMLE. Your chances of doing well on it at this point may be pretty tough, and a so-so score will probably not improve your chances in the allo match. I interviewed at 14 programs and not one of them asked anything AT ALL concerning my not taking the USMLE.

 

[SoCuteMD]

.

 

[Beantown D.O.]

Thanks MasterintuBater, your story is very encouraging! I'm happy you matched at your #1! Any other D.O.s out there?

Of no surprise, I am concentrating in the northeast. Since there are plentiful EM residencies in NY, can anyone tell me about their experience on the interview trail, esp concerning D.O. with COMLEX? I'll probably apply to more than 40 programs.

 

[wook]

.

 

[corpsmanUP]

I would just be careful. I met a Navy GMO DO on the trail this year and he was a COMLEX only applicant after a tour in Iraq. For whatever reason, he did not match anywhere. I found him to be somewhat obnoxious though, and looking back, I have friends at some of the places he interviewed and they all thought so as well. He did not get a scramble spot either. In most cases, the GMO thing should be well in your favor.

 

[pushinepi2]

I would just be careful. I met a Navy GMO DO on the trail this year and he was a COMLEX only applicant after a tour in Iraq. For whatever reason, he did not match anywhere. I found him to be somewhat obnoxious though, and looking back, I have friends at some of the places he interviewed and they all thought so as well. He did not get a scramble spot either. In most cases, the GMO thing should be well in your favor.

You can ABSOLUTELY match with COMLEX only scores. However, (and this is a BIG however,) some programs aren't clear on the idea of equivalence. That is to say, it is difficult to directly compare COMLEX and USMLE directly. It's a different exam, tests some different principles, and challenges PD's to look outside of the box. Though I didn't take the USMLE, I made sure to pose this very question to the program directors themselves. Many said that it wasn't an issue, but other residency programs make the USMLE requirement explicitly clear. Colleages of mine, for example, found it very difficult to get into NYC programs without taking the USMLE. Its a huge inconvenience. If you have a marginal application, you really don't have anything to lose by taking USMLE. On the other hand, if you're confident that your LOR's and Dean's letters distinguish you as an attractive candidate, then don't waste your time or money. Anyway, best wishes. Feel free to PM me with more specific questions.

Looking back on the bulk of an intern year (yay),

-PuSh

 

[NMH2001]

So what is the census on whether step II of the USLME should be taken also? Obviously, if Step I wasn't too hot then it would be a good idea, but what about if the step I score was decent?

thoughts?

 

[Thousandth]

I just got back from SAEM and at least 6 different RD's said that they look at the Step II scores as more important than Step I, this is because it is a clinical knowledge test. They also said that even though it does not tell what kind of doctor you will be they use the Step I as a common denominator because it is the only metric that is across the board, totally sucks.

So I am going to see if I can take Step II without taking Step I. Not sure if it's possible but hell why not try.

 

[Hercules]

I just got back from SAEM and at least 6 different RD's said that they look at the Step II scores as more important than Step I, this is because it is a clinical knowledge test. They also said that even though it does not tell what kind of doctor you will be they use the Step I as a common denominator because it is the only metric that is across the board, totally sucks.

So I am going to see if I can take Step II without taking Step I. Not sure if it's possible but hell why not try.

Every PD I've come in contact with valued Step 1 over Step 2. Granted, Step 2 is clinical, should be more relevant, etc. Unfortunately though, Step 1 is the easier one to compare applicants b/c it's the one where everyone is putting forth their best effort. No one really blows off Step 1. People with average Step 1 scores often see a big bump when they take Step 2. Not to take anything away from anyone who has accomplished this, but these things are graded on a bell curve. The people who see a huge increase probably studied harder and put in a lot of work, but they are also benefitting from the top achievers on Step 1 not competing. That's why I think they feel Step 1 is better for comparing applicants.

 

[Thousandth]

Every PD I've come in contact with valued Step 1 over Step 2. Granted, Step 2 is clinical, should be more relevant, etc. Unfortunately though, Step 1 is the easier one to compare applicants b/c it's the one where everyone is putting forth their best effort. No one really blows off Step 1. People with average Step 1 scores often see a big bump when they take Step 2. Not to take anything away from anyone who has accomplished this, but these things are graded on a bell curve. The people who see a huge increase probably studied harder and put in a lot of work, but they are also benefitting from the top achievers on Step 1 not competing. That's why I think they feel Step 1 is better for comparing applicants.

All I am saying is what the RD's told us at the Medical Student Forum. They said that if someone did good on step 1 and poor on step 2 that would be a big negative, whereas if they did mediocre on step 1 and good on step 2 that the step 2 scores would matter more as they are clinical.

Like I said they admited to using step 1 as a necessary evil, but they told us they put a lot more emphasis on LORs, Clinical rotation grades and step 2 scores.

 

[Seaglass]

Just for your future reference it's ad nauseum not agnosium. My experience with COMLEX scores is limited but from what I know whether or not PDs will look at them is very program specific.

 

[fuegorama]

Just for your future reference it's ad nauseum not agnosium. My experience with COMLEX scores is limited but from what I know whether or not PDs will look at them is very program specific.

Will WF interview and possibly rank a DO?

if so then...

What does Wake want?

 

[Seaglass]

WF, alas, is not DO friendly.

 

[jawicobike]

What about Utah and Denver? Has anyone interviewed there without USMLE? I've heard that the programs out west are slightly more difficult for DO to match, is there any truth to this?

 

[BKN]

What about Utah and Denver? Has anyone interviewed there without USMLE? I've heard that the programs out west are slightly more difficult for DO to match, is there any truth to this?

We treat them equally in El Paso. I don't know about Denver. Utah may not have a long enough track record to judge.

Generally, go to the particular program's website. There's often a list of current residents and graduates.

 

[corpsmanUP]

Denver has a DO in their program right now, and I think it was Dr.Mishka from SDN who interviewed there this year. Some DO on the forum did for sure. My experience across the country was that the only truly impenetrable area was the deep south, including Vandy, Wake, and some of the Carolina programs. Other DO's had different experiences but I think DO's did very well with interviews this year. I got interview offers from some great places that literally surprised me, like Indianapolis, Cinci, UTSW, and many more. But I did take the USMLE 1&2 and was flat out told by several top programs that they decided to interview me because of it. Just take the USMLE...it is worth it I promise you and Step II is so freaking easy as a DO that you can only help yourself in all liklihood.

 

[RayF]

Just for your future reference it's ad nauseum not agnosium. My experience with COMLEX scores is limited but from what I know whether or not PDs will look at them is very program specific.

yeh, I notice the term ad nauseum is used on SDN very.. well, ad nauseum! Here's my ad hoc advise: Take Comlex I, and then Take ComlexII and USMLE II.. I think that's the best bet because usmle I is a little different than comlex 1 and you might hurt your chances for no good reason.

 

[Apollyon]

Just for your future reference it's ad nauseum not agnosium. My experience with COMLEX scores is limited but from what I know whether or not PDs will look at them is very program specific.

Actually, all you Latin punks, it's "ad nauseam".

That is all.

 

[Seaglass]

Of course. I can't believe my spell check didn't catch that.

 

[Hercules]

Actually, all you Latin punks, it's "ad nauseam".

That is all.

Thanks for the correction. The Classics major in me has been screaming out at the Latin abuse that has gone on in this thread, but I refrained from posting so as not to get deputized into the grammar/spelling police force. 😉

 

[RayF]

Thanks for the correction. The Classics major in me has been screaming out at the Latin abuse that has gone on in this thread, but I refrained from posting so as not to get deputized into the grammar/spelling police force. 😉

I ad-mire your ad-dendum. Ad-mittedly, my latin needs some ad..um, brush-up. 😛

 

[Apollyon]

Well, ipso facto, the colloquium gathered here compos mentis sometimes ends up in media res, and it becomes difficult to tease out the argument even as res ipse loquitur, as the de facto issue is clouded by obfuscatory scrivenery.

Ergo, this thread will continue et. seq, i.e., etc. (a/k/a &c in the UK).

 

[DeLaughterDO]

Well, ipso facto, the colloquium gathered here compos mentis sometimes ends up in media res, and it becomes difficult to tease out the argument even as res ipse loquitur, as the de facto issue is clouded by obfuscatory scrivenery.

Ergo, this thread will continue et. seq, i.e., etc. (a/k/a &c in the UK).

holy fuc|<ing sh|t! That's hilarious!

homo sapiens, dolor, rubor, calor, tumor, functio laesa, and veni vidi vici...

jd

 

[freddy13]

I'm brand spanking new! Finally decide to join the forum.

Here's my question...I'm hoping i can get some sense out of this.

So I have both COMLEX I & II scores, and I've performed above avg. I have the raw score, 2-digit score, and the percentiles. It turns out that the percentile of level I is higher than its 2-digit score. Also, the percentile of level II is lower than its 2-digit score (I did worse on level II, i don't know how?).

Most program directors are not familiar with the COMLEX or with the scoring they get from NBOME. I thought that if I included the percentiles in my application, it may be easier for them to compare between D.O. applicants, or somehow use their own formula to compare D.O. with M.D.

So, I am considering listing my COMLEX scores and percentiles in the ERAS CAF?...maybe in the Awards Section? i don't know, what do you think? Other recommendations on which section to list the scores? Or is this an altogether Bad idea?

 

[docflanny]

I think it's a great idea to put your percentile score in the "awards section" of your ERAS, particularly if it's a competitive score ie. >75th percentile. I am currently at an allopathic residency and it's quite helpful to have a percentile score that is not ambiguous. The raw score is unfamiliar to allopathic PDs. BTW, I'd agree with previous posters if you do well on your COMLEX, USMLE is not needed for most residencies. You'll get plenty of interviews at strong places with good scores and a good application. The board score essentially helps you get the interview...past that, I don't believe residencies use it much to determine their rank.

 

[freddy13]

ok, i was sweating it b/c i was afraid that no one would agree with me.

let's hear from other residents? opinions from any faculty or program directors are welcomed🙂

 

[J.J.]

yeh, I notice the term ad nauseum is used on SDN very.. well, ad nauseum! Here's my ad hoc advise: Take Comlex I, and then Take ComlexII and USMLE II.. I think that's the best bet because usmle I is a little different than comlex 1 and you might hurt your chances for no good reason.

This is the route I took. However, I've received 5 interviews from the 6 Osteopathic programs applied to thus far. I rotated at only one of them. Looking forward to checking out the facilities at all.

JJ