EM Match 2025

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GatorCHOMPions

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Predictions? Early signals?
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66 unfilled spots compared to over 100 last year and over 500 in 2023. EM Docs FB group seems happy for the most part. Unless the quality is that of years past I think more unfilled is better. We need market desaturation leading to supply/demand leverage for any hope of better working conditions in the future.
 
GatorCHOMPions said:
66 unfilled spots compared to over 100 last year and over 500 in 2023. EM Docs FB group seems happy for the most part. Unless the quality is that of years past I think more unfilled is better. We need market desaturation leading to supply/demand leverage for any hope of better working conditions in the future.
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Non of this means anything without seeing the match data. I bet the directors just got better at ranking the Caribbean and foreign students who applied to their programs.
 
southerndoc said:
With all the negativity people on here have with EM, why not find another career instead of constantly whining about it?
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There are ways out. Right now (for me) it is a cost benefit analysis - the cost/risk of moving on is slightly more than the benefit. However given the direction of my current situation and the downward trend of job quality/pay, it will be estimated 2-4 years when I leave.

This is sad mind you because I am the last year of residency graduation before COVID. I saw the system/environment/opportunity/autonomy before COVID. I am living the current degraded landscape that is left. The hospitals/CMGs gained too much power, and there is no closing Pandora’s box now.

Spent 3 years undergrad, 4 years of basic science research to get into medical school, 4 years medical school, 3 years residency and only practiced EM for less than 10 years. It is just sad for the system as a whole because this is lost economic/humanity potential by me leaving the field. But I personally feel I have given back to humanity enough after all this time. I have no personal moral qualms with putting down the laryngoscope.

God help us with what and who is left.
 
Porfirio said:
There are ways out. Right now (for me) it is a cost benefit analysis - the cost/risk of moving on is slightly more than the benefit. However given the direction of my current situation and the downward trend of job quality/pay, it will be estimated 2-4 years when I leave.

This is sad mind you because I am the last year of residency graduation before COVID. I saw the system/environment/opportunity/autonomy before COVID. I am living the current degraded landscape that is left. The hospitals/CMGs gained too much power, and there is no closing Pandora’s box now.

Spent 3 years undergrad, 4 years of basic science research to get into medical school, 4 years medical school, 3 years residency and only practiced EM for less than 10 years. It is just sad for the system as a whole because this is lost economic/humanity potential by me leaving the field. But I personally feel I have given back to humanity enough after all this time. I have no personal moral qualms with putting down the laryngoscope.

God help us with what and who is left.
Click to expand...
What escape plans do you have?
 
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WhatJobDoIPick said:
What escape plans do you have?
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I have been working and saving a ton. My days of max saving for retirement are setting, expenses are going down because I don’t need money for down payments and initial life costs (furniture, etc). I can make less money and have the same standard of living. A friend of mine from medical school and I are looking into home health as an option. He already has his home health business up and running and it is a good job (lifestyle, pay is good).
 
The SOAP list is mostly the usual suspects (HCA sites) with tons of small community programs.

Funny enough in addition The Pitt (Allegheny General Hospital) failed to fill in the match.
 
Predictions:

- Record high number of IMG/FMG matches
- Record low number of US Senior MD matches

>100 unfilled spots is absolutely wild given how EM is now a bottom tier speciality.
 
GatorCHOMPions said:
66 unfilled spots compared to over 100 last year and over 500 in 2023. EM Docs FB group seems happy for the most part. Unless the quality is that of years past I think more unfilled is better. We need market desaturation leading to supply/demand leverage for any hope of better working conditions in the future.
Click to expand...

The Facebook group infuriates me.

Somehow filling up the specialty with subpar and mediocre students is considered a celebration.

And i cannot believe how much resistance practicing ER doctors are showing towards making this a 4 year specialty - quite literally in one sweep the entire future of the specialty would be fixed if that happened and every practicing ER attending will be the beneficiary of that.

But no….. these Facebook warriors would rather keep destroying the specialty and over saturate the job market
 
cyanide12345678 said:
The Facebook group infuriates me.

Somehow filling up the specialty with subpar and mediocre students is considered a celebration.

And i cannot believe how much resistance practicing ER doctors are showing towards making this a 4 year specialty - quite literally in one sweep the entire future of the specialty would be fixed if that happened and every practicing ER attending will be the beneficiary of that.

But no….. these Facebook warriors would rather keep destroying the specialty and over saturate the job market
Click to expand...

I left that group circa 2017 because it was full of *****s even then. The founder is a hack.
 
RustedFox said:
It's getting close.
I have to wait for other things and organizations to do their thing.
Click to expand...

Different ****hole or leaving EM entirely?

Leaving was the best decision I've made since I accepted the offer for med school. Wife says I'm an infinitely happier person, which is probably true. Either way, good luck!
 
Porfirio said:
I have been working and saving a ton. My days of max saving for retirement are setting, expenses are going down because I don’t need money for down payments and initial life costs (furniture, etc). I can make less money and have the same standard of living. A friend of mine from medical school and I are looking into home health as an option. He already has his home health business up and running and it is a good job (lifestyle, pay is good).
Click to expand...
Funny enough I've been looking into it but am not really sure where to start. Can't find an existing business for sale that will sell to someone not already in the business.
 
Out of curiosity, is the SOAP list public yet? It's been too long for me to remember the time frame.
 
WhatJobDoIPick said:
Because people have expenses and families to support and can't afford a 100k pay cut and increase in hours worked??
Click to expand...

You're not a single mom struggling to put food on the table. People in EM can absolutely afford the loss of income and risk of switching careers. They just don't want to. All the whining is completely invalidated by how few people actually are willing to leave. Every thread about EM is whining about how awful EM is and every thread about pivoting fields is whining about how people can't possibly go from a 99th percentile income to a 96th percentile even when it comes with nights, weekends, holidays, vacations, professional respect, and physical safety. The majority of people just want to sit in a circle and complain.
 
USCDiver said:
Out of curiosity, is the SOAP list public yet? It's been too long for me to remember the time frame.
Click to expand...
It’s only open to people participating in soap. It’s nothing interesting or surprising. A bunch of garbage Michigan programs and Henry Ford satellites and a bunch of HCA dumpster fires mainly in FL. A few random tiny programs in OK AR PA OH that should have been shut down already.
 
AlmostAnMD said:
Different ****hole or leaving EM entirely?

Leaving was the best decision I've made since I accepted the offer for med school. Wife says I'm an infinitely happier person, which is probably true. Either way, good luck!
Click to expand...

Remind us again what you're doing now?
 
DeadCactus said:
You're not a single mom struggling to put food on the table. People in EM can absolutely afford the loss of income and risk of switching careers. They just don't want to. All the whining is completely invalidated by how few people actually are willing to leave. Every thread about EM is whining about how awful EM is and every thread about pivoting fields is whining about how people can't possibly go from a 99th percentile income to a 96th percentile even when it comes with nights, weekends, holidays, vacations, professional respect, and physical safety. The majority of people just want to sit in a circle and complain.
Click to expand...

Nah it's actually that there are little to no options.

People are leaving in droves, my residents that haven't even graduated yet are planning their escape. The only barrier to full on mass quitting of EM doctors is the barrier to access other careers.

Your victim blaming take is not helpful. There's a reason that our colleagues in this field have full on mental breakdowns and need to take leaves of absence to recover.

I'd be more surprised regarding this take from a fellow EM doc, but I see you've spent prior posts simping for outdated divorce laws, so it's really not all that shocking.
 
southerndoc said:
With all the negativity people on here have with EM, why not find another career instead of constantly whining about it?
Click to expand...
Many do. It's probably the only bulwark we have against a full on recession in the field.


Truthfully, people should be going into a field like EM with their eyes wide open. I like my job some days but honestly, if I knew as a student what I know now I likely would have chosen another specialty.

Sure it gets old, but med students should be fully cognisant of the fact that most emergency physicians practicing today don't actually want to be practicing emergency medicine, and what they are exposed to on their clerkships and sub internships is emphatically not what real clinical practice is like.
 
WhatJobDoIPick said:
Nah it's actually that there are little to no options.

People are leaving in droves, my residents that haven't even graduated yet are planning their escape. The only barrier to full on mass quitting of EM doctors is the barrier to access other careers.

Your victim blaming take is not helpful. There's a reason that our colleagues in this field have full on mental breakdowns and need to take leaves of absence to recover.

I'd be more surprised regarding this take from a fellow EM doc, but I see you've spent prior posts simping for outdated divorce laws, so it's really not all that shocking.
Click to expand...

Maybe take some responsibility for your lack of career options, poor financial situation, and failing marriage? None of these are inherent to emergency medicine. The people who want out, get out. The rest are roleplaying victims.
 
DeadCactus said:
You're not a single mom struggling to put food on the table. People in EM can absolutely afford the loss of income and risk of switching careers. They just don't want to. All the whining is completely invalidated by how few people actually are willing to leave. Every thread about EM is whining about how awful EM is and every thread about pivoting fields is whining about how people can't possibly go from a 99th percentile income to a 96th percentile even when it comes with nights, weekends, holidays, vacations, professional respect, and physical safety. The majority of people just want to sit in a circle and complain.
Click to expand...
Not if you live in a HCOL area caring for your elderly parents, highly taxed while having a high debt load due to PSLF likely being axed.
 
I think getting out is hard but the folks who have done it IMO have reached the breaking point. I know people who have gone into concierge medicine, found ways to make good money. Sometimes it isn’t EM type dough at 400k a year but honestly, and I have said this before.. Open up a concierge weight loss / lifestyle practice. You could make very close to EM pay.. work 4 days a week, no nights, weekends etc.. it’s all out there and available. You would have to be flexible as that market will saturate but with eyes wide open you can make good dough. Go to a med spa, IV hydration etc.. those are all fields that can make good money.

I think if you own an Urgent care you could probably make in profit around 300k a year without working a single shift there after you get it up and running.

There are no shortage of options. I tend to agree that people dont want to take any risk, do any work etc.

its really the beauty of medicine we often overlook. The path is made for you. The only decision is what specialty. Then you match into a specialty and the path ahead is very clear and laid out.

Things like entrepreneurship, real estate etc dont have that luxury. They involve some degree of risk. Most docs are not geared for that. I think EM is different because more of us are.

That being said if you hate the job enough you will leave and you will find something else to replace your income and create the life you want.
 
Lexdiamondz said:
Many do. It's probably the only bulwark we have against a full on recession in the field.


Truthfully, people should be going into a field like EM with their eyes wide open. I like my job some days but honestly, if I knew as a student what I know now I likely would have chosen another specialty.

Sure it gets old, but med students should be fully cognisant of the fact that most emergency physicians practicing today don't actually want to be practicing emergency medicine, and what they are exposed to on their clerkships and sub internships is emphatically not what real clinical practice is like.
Click to expand...
I took a 20 minute nap on my rural day shift today.
 
Lexdiamondz said:
Not if you live in a HCOL area caring for your elderly parents, highly taxed while having a high debt load due to PSLF likely being axed.
Click to expand...
Sure.. but choices.. i would agree you cant have everything. Move your elderly parents to a MCOL or LCOL area which usually also has a much higher need for docs and pay is better.

Why a sane human would practice EM in Chicago or NY is beyond me. More and more markets are becoming like that.. Denver etc.. God bless you guys.. it’s not for me. As I have gotten older my tolerance for the craptastic world of EM wanes. If my job goes away.. im out.. done..
 
EctopicFetus said:
I think getting out is hard but the folks who have done it IMO have reached the breaking point. I know people who have gone into concierge medicine, found ways to make good money. Sometimes it isn’t EM type dough at 400k a year but honestly, and I have said this before.. Open up a concierge weight loss / lifestyle practice. You could make very close to EM pay.. work 4 days a week, no nights, weekends etc.. it’s all out there and available. You would have to be flexible as that market will saturate but with eyes wide open you can make good dough. Go to a med spa, IV hydration etc.. those are all fields that can make good money.

I think if you own an Urgent care you could probably make in profit around 300k a year without working a single shift there after you get it up and running.

There are no shortage of options. I tend to agree that people dont want to take any risk, do any work etc.

its really the beauty of medicine we often overlook. The path is made for you. The only decision is what specialty. Then you match into a specialty and the path ahead is very clear and laid out.

Things like entrepreneurship, real estate etc dont have that luxury. They involve some degree of risk. Most docs are not geared for that. I think EM is different because more of us are.

That being said if you hate the job enough you will leave and you will find something else to replace your income and create the life you want.
Click to expand...
I think there's still an issue in urgent care of insurers totally screwing the small players. As in completely refusing to pay claims. I also live in an area where people are pretty attached to our big name health systems.
 
DeadCactus said:
Maybe take some responsibility for your lack of career options, poor financial situation, and failing marriage? None of these are inherent to emergency medicine. The people who want out, get out. The rest are roleplaying victims.
Click to expand...

Bro went on full victim shame mode lmao.

My personal financial situation is great. No student debt, make a lot of money, nice modest house. Many docs here have even better finances.

Your comments about marriage/divorce reveals your boomer simp mentality. Not gonna go further on that.

I work hard in EM still to provide a legacy for my children. I have thresholds for which I would pull the ripcord and leave.

You clearly have no sympathy for the young ones who have 500k in student debt, support family members or have other situations for which "just leave" isn't an option.
 
TooMuchResearch said:
I think there's still an issue in urgent care of insurers totally screwing the small players. As in completely refusing to pay claims. I also live in an area where people are pretty attached to our big name health systems.
Click to expand...

I live in an area where there are many fractured and crumbling health systems. One system is being forced out of network w a major insurer. I think patients are fed the F up. I think there's an opportunity for concierge type practice which I am exploring.
 
WhatJobDoIPick said:
Bro went on full victim shame mode lmao.

My personal financial situation is great. No student debt, make a lot of money, nice modest house. Many docs here have even better finances.

Your comments about marriage/divorce reveals your boomer simp mentality. Not gonna go further on that.

I work hard in EM still to provide a legacy for my children. I have thresholds for which I would pull the ripcord and leave.

You clearly have no sympathy for the young ones who have 500k in student debt, support family members or have other situations for which "just leave" isn't an option.
Click to expand...

"Victim blaming" in a discussion of career options for people in the top percentiles of income and a primary concern of a "legacy for your children" is laughable. The forum is filled with options to get out of emergency medicine every time this topic comes up. Emergency physicians have the resources to make life and career choices based on their priorities. They are not choosing between their loved ones having food, shelter, medical care, or education. They are not risking homelessness to change careers. They are choosing the between the job they can't stop whining about and the luxuries they value. There are plenty of negatives to emergency medicine and I readily lay them out on this forum and elsewhere but I don't need to cosplay an indentured servant to talk about the negatives of this field.
 
WhatJobDoIPick said:
Remind us again what you're doing now?
Click to expand...


system physician advisor

peer to peers, advising other services about level of care, etc. The phrase "you don't know what you don't know until you know what you don't know" is applicable here. There is sooooooooooooo much to learn about insurance, though it's probably not for everyone.

it's pretty chill

between cases now playing elden ring

funny you mention not taking a 100k paycut because that's the exact amount I took

25% income reduction for 99% stress reduction with no liability, WFH, no nights or weekends.....never going back. My EM days were so stressful my scrubs were stinky with my sweat half my shifts...now...bliss
 
AlmostAnMD said:
system physician advisor

peer to peers, advising other services about level of care, etc. The phrase "you don't know what you don't know until you know what you don't know" is applicable here. There is sooooooooooooo much to learn about insurance, though it's probably not for everyone.

it's pretty chill

between cases now playing elden ring

funny you mention not taking a 100k paycut because that's the exact amount I took

25% income reduction for 99% stress reduction with no liability, WFH, no nights or weekends.....never going back. My EM days were so stressful my scrubs were stinky with my sweat half my shifts...now...bliss
Click to expand...

It's definitely on the differential.

What's your Elden ring build? Mage here.

I've come to the conclusion that I kinda suck at souls likes, but I very much appreciate them. I finished the base game (except for Malenia) and got to the boss of the DLC but couldn't hack it.
 
WhatJobDoIPick said:
It's definitely on the differential.

What's your Elden ring build? Mage here.

I've come to the conclusion that I kinda suck at souls likes, but I very much appreciate them. I finished the base game (except for Malenia) and got to the boss of the DLC but couldn't hack it.
Click to expand...
@Tenk will tell you not to get me started on this

greatsword

Greatsword yesterday, greatsword today, greatsword tomorrow and forever

Hit things with heavy metal until they die, repeat
 
Rekt said:
It’s only open to people participating in soap. It’s nothing interesting or surprising. A bunch of garbage Michigan programs and Henry Ford satellites and a bunch of HCA dumpster fires mainly in FL. A few random tiny programs in OK AR PA OH that should have been shut down already.
Click to expand...
They've done a good job keeping the list under wraps. It's usually leaked by now. I guess because it wasn't as egregious as last couple years it's less exciting.
 
TooMuchResearch said:
I think there's still an issue in urgent care of insurers totally screwing the small players. As in completely refusing to pay claims. I also live in an area where people are pretty attached to our big name health systems.
Click to expand...
Perhaps. That being said those are just suggestions. Many ways to skin a cat..
 
DeadCactus said:
"Victim blaming" in a discussion of career options for people in the top percentiles of income and a primary concern of a "legacy for your children" is laughable. The forum is filled with options to get out of emergency medicine every time this topic comes up. Emergency physicians have the resources to make life and career choices based on their priorities. They are not choosing between their loved ones having food, shelter, medical care, or education. They are not risking homelessness to change careers. They are choosing the between the job they can't stop whining about and the luxuries they value. There are plenty of negatives to emergency medicine and I readily lay them out on this forum and elsewhere but I don't need to cosplay an indentured servant to talk about the negatives of this field.
Click to expand...

Why are you white knighting for single moms and people who spent 1/10th the time in education and training as we did?

It's so weird
 
AlmostAnMD said:
@Tenk will tell you not to get me started on this

greatsword

Greatsword yesterday, greatsword today, greatsword tomorrow and forever

Hit things with heavy metal until they die, repeat
Click to expand...

Metroidvania player here (I don't play Elden Ring for very specific reasons).

Greatsword is the way for me, too.
All the arc.
All of it.
 
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