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Not yet, though I have it on good athourity i'll be doing good next year for that, nothing is garunteed.
Pros and Cons of your DO School
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Not yet, though I have it on good athourity i'll be doing good next year for that, nothing is garunteed.
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So I saw a few pages back that the last KCUMB review was in 2010. I guess I'll give it a crack. I'm a fourth year, so some of the details have may have changed slightly. I tried to include the changes friends behind me have told me about.
Curriculum: systems based for first two years which are divided into 5-6 week sections. First year includes: Foundations of Medicine, Musculoskeletal, Cardiopulmonary 1 & 2, GI, and Renal. Second year includes: Neuroscience 1 & 2, Skin/Blood/Lymph (basically Heme/Onc and derm), Endocrine, and Reproductive. Foundations is basically a lot of basic science to get everyone on the same page before starting into the real meat of the program. It's also probably a bit of what doesn't nicely fit into the other sections. The rest of your didactic years is spent in the system sections. In these, you get everything to do with the particular body system: anatomy/histo, physiology, pharm, pathology, etc. Lectures are held in the morning, usually about 4 one-hour lectures per day. Then you have one or two labs in the afternoon a couple of days a week. Definitely manageable.
You typically have a midterm and a final for each section as well as lab finals for anatomy, pathology, and OMT. Then at the end of the year, you have a cumulative final which is not too high pressure. It is graded pass, fail, honors. When I took it, very few failed it, most did fine and passed, a small handful cared enough to study enough for honors.
I really liked the systems way of doing things. It seemed to give a good overall picture of that part of medicine. If there is a con to the systems based method, it would be that you have all of it at once. So, when studying for step 1, you often have had at least a year since thinking about that material (other than for the cumulative final at the end of the first year).
OMT usually follows the section as closely as possible. For example, we did a lot of ortho testing during musculoskeletal. It's not too hard or a really large time commitment. There is usually a lecture or two per week, a pre-lab reading, and the lab. The OMT practical at the end of each section consists of three stations where you answer questions and demonstrate techniques, a multiple choice section, and a fill in the blank section. Not too bad, you get used to the practical portion and figure out the things the docs are looking for.
There is anatomy, pathology, and OMT tutoring available for first years. Practically everyone takes advantage of it.
Location: I'll split this into two parts: the neighborhood and the city.
The neighborhood is pretty bad, though it seems to be improving. KCUMB is right between a fine part of KC to the west (downtown and the river market) and a bad part of town to the east. On campus you are fine. If you're walking over from Century Towers, you're almost always fine (might need to be more careful at night, i.e. walk with a group or drive). Outside of that, I'd be careful.
There are some great things about the immediate area. First is Cliff Drive. It's a nice park that runs for a couple of miles of wooded area. There is a disc golf course, some ponds. It's a great place to bike or run. I biked there alone, but would probably run with a group. There is a fitness group at the school that has weekly runs and rides that often go through Cliff Drive.
It's also a pretty accessible area. You're very close to the River Market (great fresh produce at the farmer's market most of the year) and downtown/Power & Light. The Plaza is a short drive, usually <10 min. If you want to go farther, the suburbs have some great places to go too, Zona Rosa to the north, Overland Park to the west, Lees Summit and Blue Springs to the East.
Facilities: I was well pleased with the school itself. There is nothing special about the lecture halls, but I hear they are looking to build new ones. Smith hall is a great place to study with small and large rooms you can easily reserve. There is a new library and student center. The library is a great place to study and the staff there is great. The student center has some snacks, TVs, a fitness center, and meeting rooms--your typical thing. The campus looks like a park, very nice if you ask me. The labs are pretty nice. They all have large TVs that make it easy to see what the doc is doing (very nice in anatomy lab). There are enough anatomy tanks for 5-6 students if I remember correctly. They can be kind of crowded up are adequate.
Cost: fairly hefty. I think it's around $42k. But...tuition is supposedly going down next year. Just doing my part to propagate that rumor if it is not true 😀
The financial aid department seems to do pretty well, although they really need a better way of notifying us about potential scholarships. I'm from MO and don't need 10 emails about scholarships for students from some random county in Idaho.
Faculty: for the most part, very good. Usually very willing to answer questions after class and later on. Most are very helpful. One of the phys profs will chat with students online until midnight the night before each final. Some of the adjunct clinical faculty is harder to get ahold of and are less approachable, but for the most part these lectures are the minority.
Administration: most of the admin that the average student will come into contact with are faculty with some admin duties. I've heard good things about the COM Dean though he's new since I left campus for rotations. They are in the process of hiring a new president as the current one went back to FL to the practice he left a few years ago when he took over for what's her name. The four final candidates look like they would be fine. Mostly Deans from elsewhere. One is our current Dean. Another is a past AOA president. The school seems to have gotten its act together on this front. The only con I would say is that there are a couple of admin depts that are all about the bureaucracy of the school, i.e. they make a point to show their structure and where students fit (at the bottom). The faculty administrators are pretty good and approachable.
Reputation: seems good compared to the DO schools. Coming up on our 100th anniversary in 2016. The school has changed over the years, but you probably can't go wrong with one of the original schools.
Clinical Rotations: there is a large variety here--good and bad. About half of the class stays in KC while the rest go to other sites. These include sites in MO, KS, OH, MI, OK, and FL. The biggest concentrations are in Missouri and Michigan. My friends that have done KC rotations have enjoyed them for the most part. The biggest drawback for these is that it's a large metro area, and you will likely have some driving to do. Some rotations are at KU or UMKC. Others are in outlying clinics/hospitals. Seems like rotations are essentially assigned to you during your third year with minimal student choice and chosen during your fourth year with much more choice.
Outlying sites vary among themselves. I went to a medium sized city with a single residency in town. This is the big difference for several of the outlying sites: one or no residency. This is good for your third year as you will get much more experience. However, some of these sites can have limited pathology to see. Mine did not so I feel like I got a very good education. It was a good balance. Some of the smaller sites are probably pretty lacking, but there are more spots than students. Basically, you'll get a feel of what you want from your rotations and should have no trouble getting into a site that meets those goals.
During rotations, you have quizzes, a log, and assignments. Supposedly these will be done on the iPads too. There are also shelf exams, similar to other schools
Housing: many students live in Century Towers which is right across the street from the school. Very convenient and has some fine amenities. The only downside is that it is an old hospital so you're basically living in an apartment the size of 2-3 hospital rooms. I lived there for the first two years and was modestly pleased but happy to leave. Other students choose to live further away. Driving is fairly easy depending on where you choose to live. Overland Park, Lees Summit, Blue Springs, Shawnee, Olathe, etc. are pretty good places to live.
Tech: apparently students are getting iPads next year? I'm jealous. Sounds like the school is aiming to go as paperless as possible. When I was in the didactic years, we got a sizeable packet of ppt slides on a weekly basis. Now, I guess that will go away and everything will be on the tablet (including texts and exams). Smith hall has computers in the rooms, some with projectors.
Study areas: as I said previously, there are pretty good study areas on campus. So, I'll focus on where people study off of campus. First, my favorite place to study was on the porch at CT. It's on the 5th floor and is a really nice place to go (unless the creepy ice cream truck happens to be in the neighborhood blaring its music). There are also some really nice coffee shops in KC: the Westport Coffeehouse, Scooters, Lattéland and others. You'll often see a KCUMB student or two and usually KU or UMKC students studying in the same places. There are also some good parks down by the Plaza that offer good studying when it's warm.
Social Scene: there's a lot to do in KC. Favorite areas are the Power and Light district/downtown, the Plaza, Zona Rosa, Westport, and Crowne Center. There are also some good museums. KC has several pro teams: the Royals, the Chiefs, the Wizards and some minor league teams. Concerts come through regularly. And if you go to KCUMB, make sure you go to Murray's Ice Cream in Westport; it's amazing.
Local Hospitals: there a quite a few. The other universities are affiliated with hospitals: KU medical center, St. Luke's, Truman. There are also some other smaller hospitals that you might rotate through, for example St. Mary's. KU and St. Luke's are the best. Truman is your typical inner city hospital (ED is called the knife and gun club for a reason).
Board Prep: they did a fair job at encouraging you to study when I went through step 1. Guided us to some programs and gave some resources, but that's about it. Word on the street was that a board prep program might be included in tuition, but I have not heard on this for sure. It seems like most students did DIT. Some of my class did Kaplan's program. Some build their own board study routine. Most use question banks liberally: UWorld, Kaplan, Combank, etc. There is one or two that can be accessed remotely through the library but aren't as good.
All in all, KCUMB is a solid school. There are times when you just cooperate to graduate, but these tend to be few. You'll get a good education and enjoy your time there.
If any other current students want to edit/add, feel free.
Update: the curriculum has changed a bit. Each year of the first two, as I understand it, tackles each system. The first year, you go through the basic science aspects of each system. The second year encompasses the clinical aspects of each system.
Curriculum: systems based for first two years which are divided into 5-6 week sections. First year includes: Foundations of Medicine, Musculoskeletal, Cardiopulmonary 1 & 2, GI, and Renal. Second year includes: Neuroscience 1 & 2, Skin/Blood/Lymph (basically Heme/Onc and derm), Endocrine, and Reproductive. Foundations is basically a lot of basic science to get everyone on the same page before starting into the real meat of the program. It's also probably a bit of what doesn't nicely fit into the other sections. The rest of your didactic years is spent in the system sections. In these, you get everything to do with the particular body system: anatomy/histo, physiology, pharm, pathology, etc. Lectures are held in the morning, usually about 4 one-hour lectures per day. Then you have one or two labs in the afternoon a couple of days a week. Definitely manageable.
You typically have a midterm and a final for each section as well as lab finals for anatomy, pathology, and OMT. Then at the end of the year, you have a cumulative final which is not too high pressure. It is graded pass, fail, honors. When I took it, very few failed it, most did fine and passed, a small handful cared enough to study enough for honors.
I really liked the systems way of doing things. It seemed to give a good overall picture of that part of medicine. If there is a con to the systems based method, it would be that you have all of it at once. So, when studying for step 1, you often have had at least a year since thinking about that material (other than for the cumulative final at the end of the first year).
OMT usually follows the section as closely as possible. For example, we did a lot of ortho testing during musculoskeletal. It's not too hard or a really large time commitment. There is usually a lecture or two per week, a pre-lab reading, and the lab. The OMT practical at the end of each section consists of three stations where you answer questions and demonstrate techniques, a multiple choice section, and a fill in the blank section. Not too bad, you get used to the practical portion and figure out the things the docs are looking for.
There is anatomy, pathology, and OMT tutoring available for first years. Practically everyone takes advantage of it.
Location: I'll split this into two parts: the neighborhood and the city.
The neighborhood is pretty bad, though it seems to be improving. KCUMB is right between a fine part of KC to the west (downtown and the river market) and a bad part of town to the east. On campus you are fine. If you're walking over from Century Towers, you're almost always fine (might need to be more careful at night, i.e. walk with a group or drive). Outside of that, I'd be careful.
There are some great things about the immediate area. First is Cliff Drive. It's a nice park that runs for a couple of miles of wooded area. There is a disc golf course, some ponds. It's a great place to bike or run. I biked there alone, but would probably run with a group. There is a fitness group at the school that has weekly runs and rides that often go through Cliff Drive.
It's also a pretty accessible area. You're very close to the River Market (great fresh produce at the farmer's market most of the year) and downtown/Power & Light. The Plaza is a short drive, usually <10 min. If you want to go farther, the suburbs have some great places to go too, Zona Rosa to the north, Overland Park to the west, Lees Summit and Blue Springs to the East.
Facilities: I was well pleased with the school itself. There is nothing special about the lecture halls, but I hear they are looking to build new ones. Smith hall is a great place to study with small and large rooms you can easily reserve. There is a new library and student center. The library is a great place to study and the staff there is great. The student center has some snacks, TVs, a fitness center, and meeting rooms--your typical thing. The campus looks like a park, very nice if you ask me. The labs are pretty nice. They all have large TVs that make it easy to see what the doc is doing (very nice in anatomy lab). There are enough anatomy tanks for 5-6 students if I remember correctly. They can be kind of crowded up are adequate.
Cost: fairly hefty. I think it's around $42k. But...tuition is supposedly going down next year. Just doing my part to propagate that rumor if it is not true 😀
The financial aid department seems to do pretty well, although they really need a better way of notifying us about potential scholarships. I'm from MO and don't need 10 emails about scholarships for students from some random county in Idaho.
Faculty: for the most part, very good. Usually very willing to answer questions after class and later on. Most are very helpful. One of the phys profs will chat with students online until midnight the night before each final. Some of the adjunct clinical faculty is harder to get ahold of and are less approachable, but for the most part these lectures are the minority.
Administration: most of the admin that the average student will come into contact with are faculty with some admin duties. I've heard good things about the COM Dean though he's new since I left campus for rotations. They are in the process of hiring a new president as the current one went back to FL to the practice he left a few years ago when he took over for what's her name. The four final candidates look like they would be fine. Mostly Deans from elsewhere. One is our current Dean. Another is a past AOA president. The school seems to have gotten its act together on this front. The only con I would say is that there are a couple of admin depts that are all about the bureaucracy of the school, i.e. they make a point to show their structure and where students fit (at the bottom). The faculty administrators are pretty good and approachable.
Reputation: seems good compared to the DO schools. Coming up on our 100th anniversary in 2016. The school has changed over the years, but you probably can't go wrong with one of the original schools.
Clinical Rotations: there is a large variety here--good and bad. About half of the class stays in KC while the rest go to other sites. These include sites in MO, KS, OH, MI, OK, and FL. The biggest concentrations are in Missouri and Michigan. My friends that have done KC rotations have enjoyed them for the most part. The biggest drawback for these is that it's a large metro area, and you will likely have some driving to do. Some rotations are at KU or UMKC. Others are in outlying clinics/hospitals. Seems like rotations are essentially assigned to you during your third year with minimal student choice and chosen during your fourth year with much more choice.
Outlying sites vary among themselves. I went to a medium sized city with a single residency in town. This is the big difference for several of the outlying sites: one or no residency. This is good for your third year as you will get much more experience. However, some of these sites can have limited pathology to see. Mine did not so I feel like I got a very good education. It was a good balance. Some of the smaller sites are probably pretty lacking, but there are more spots than students. Basically, you'll get a feel of what you want from your rotations and should have no trouble getting into a site that meets those goals.
During rotations, you have quizzes, a log, and assignments. Supposedly these will be done on the iPads too. There are also shelf exams, similar to other schools
Housing: many students live in Century Towers which is right across the street from the school. Very convenient and has some fine amenities. The only downside is that it is an old hospital so you're basically living in an apartment the size of 2-3 hospital rooms. I lived there for the first two years and was modestly pleased but happy to leave. Other students choose to live further away. Driving is fairly easy depending on where you choose to live. Overland Park, Lees Summit, Blue Springs, Shawnee, Olathe, etc. are pretty good places to live.
Tech: apparently students are getting iPads next year? I'm jealous. Sounds like the school is aiming to go as paperless as possible. When I was in the didactic years, we got a sizeable packet of ppt slides on a weekly basis. Now, I guess that will go away and everything will be on the tablet (including texts and exams). Smith hall has computers in the rooms, some with projectors.
Study areas: as I said previously, there are pretty good study areas on campus. So, I'll focus on where people study off of campus. First, my favorite place to study was on the porch at CT. It's on the 5th floor and is a really nice place to go (unless the creepy ice cream truck happens to be in the neighborhood blaring its music). There are also some really nice coffee shops in KC: the Westport Coffeehouse, Scooters, Lattéland and others. You'll often see a KCUMB student or two and usually KU or UMKC students studying in the same places. There are also some good parks down by the Plaza that offer good studying when it's warm.
Social Scene: there's a lot to do in KC. Favorite areas are the Power and Light district/downtown, the Plaza, Zona Rosa, Westport, and Crowne Center. There are also some good museums. KC has several pro teams: the Royals, the Chiefs, the Wizards and some minor league teams. Concerts come through regularly. And if you go to KCUMB, make sure you go to Murray's Ice Cream in Westport; it's amazing.
Local Hospitals: there a quite a few. The other universities are affiliated with hospitals: KU medical center, St. Luke's, Truman. There are also some other smaller hospitals that you might rotate through, for example St. Mary's. KU and St. Luke's are the best. Truman is your typical inner city hospital (ED is called the knife and gun club for a reason).
Board Prep: they did a fair job at encouraging you to study when I went through step 1. Guided us to some programs and gave some resources, but that's about it. Word on the street was that a board prep program might be included in tuition, but I have not heard on this for sure. It seems like most students did DIT. Some of my class did Kaplan's program. Some build their own board study routine. Most use question banks liberally: UWorld, Kaplan, Combank, etc. There is one or two that can be accessed remotely through the library but aren't as good.
All in all, KCUMB is a solid school. There are times when you just cooperate to graduate, but these tend to be few. You'll get a good education and enjoy your time there.
If any other current students want to edit/add, feel free.
Update: the curriculum has changed a bit. Each year of the first two, as I understand it, tackles each system. The first year, you go through the basic science aspects of each system. The second year encompasses the clinical aspects of each system.
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Hahaha probably true. When I copied that format from the PCOM review a few pages back, I didn't pay much attention to the letter grades. I changed a few but spent more time on the prior parts. It's pretty difficult to give a grade to our own medical schools. KCUMB's rep is at probably equal to PCOM's, so if one is off, both are. I'd say few have probably had enough experience at other schools to compare. So it's totally subjective without some sort of standard scale for the letter grade.
See edit.
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I've noticed that in medical school students talk a ton of crap about their own school to each other, but when they talk about their school to people not from their school (or the faculty) they tend to cover up/ignore the things they complain about daily and claim their school is the next Harvard.... or at least thats how it is with my school compared to what people say on here who have rated my school.
Generally the ones rating their schools on the past few pages are people who were very happy with their school and probably dont represent the average student
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I've asked Western students what they think about their school and the general opinion among the 10-15 willing to tell me is pre-clinical, at least at the Pomona campus, is "not that great" with a lot of independent study, which is par for the course for DO schools. Then with clinicals the opinion is Arrowhead is top-end, Chino Valley is absolutely horrrible, and everything in between is a bit of a tossup and varies between students. It gave me the impression that Western students end up doing well in the long run because they matriculated with higher quality stats than most DO schools. The majority of the students and Western alum residents/attendings I've met were legit and knew their ****, though some/many stated it was more due to their own efforts than the schools. I mean I did meet a couple of ****** Western alums at more disreputable hospitals in other states but which school doesn't have those. Obviously correct me if I'm wrong.
Personally I'm from Southern California and passed on the school because of the campus. Ugliest ****ing piece of dirt I've ever seen, that was barely compensated by an adequate inside. Way too far from the good part of SoCal.
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Dang...I should have written a review like this. There are always crappy things about every school, but we get through it. Probably the flaw is how we're writing these pro/con reviews...there is no standardization. At least that's what I've decided...
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It pains me to say this, but Chino Valley isn't necessarily what I would call "the worst." I would rank Arrowhead = Riverside County (granted, the cores we have there is peds and OB, and the OB/Gyn residency at Arrowhead staffs Riverside County) >>Chino>>>>>*. The problem is you'll spend 40-50 hours a week at Arrowhead working your butt off (60-90 hours for surgery) and learning for a pass, then see a classmate who spent 10 hours a week at a different internal med site and get a honors. It seems like the amount of work required for a site is inversely proportional to the average grade for that site.
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can someone do LMU pls.
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I'm a first-year at UNTHSC-TCOM, so my experiences are limited. With that said, here we go:
Curriculum: Systems-based block schedule. We only do one organ system/unit at a time (ex. cardio, neuroscience, immune) and focus on that. We learn the anatomy, physiology, embryology, pharmacology, some pathophysiology, and radiology. The advantage of this is that you don't drag out courses all year (great for ADD types like me) and you don't have to worry about finals. I really, really like that. Gross anatomy lab runs 2-3 afternoons a week from August until March of first year. OMM lab is one afternoon a week for two hours. In addition to your systems courses, there are a few semester-long courses like OMM lecture, medical ethics, clinical interviewing, clinical medicine (learn how to use diagnostic equipment, physical exams, and write charts), community medical resources (learn about Medicare, Medicaid, indigent health care programs, child abuse agencies, women's health services, etc.), and a scattering of geriatrics lectures. Class is a mixture of lectures and MLMs, where faculty present clinical cases and questions which everyone answers via iClicker (not graded). You typically have an exam every two weeks. As an osteopathic school, we have the longest school year of any Texas medical school due to OMM. Most allopathic medical schools have 8-10 weeks off for summer break, we only get 6. That's just the nature of the beast. Second year has fewer lectures/less required class time but you are expected to read/self-teach a lot more. Lectures are audio-recorded which is great. I don't go to lectures if they are recorded, I listen to them at accelerated speed and I get more out of class that way.
Location: The campus is located in the cultural district which is one of the nicest areas of Fort Worth. We are 3-5 minutes from downtown Fort Worth and have easy access to highways to get around the metroplex. There are a lot of restaurants, museums, bars, and parks close-by. Fort Worth is a large city but has a small-town feel. Traffic is minimal (at least for me) and people are friendly. If you move from a big party town you'll probably be disappointed with the amount of nightlife/concerts/festivals, but it is what it is. Dallas is much more active in that regard and is 30-40 miles away. Lots of my classmates go out in Dallas on the weekends to go to bars or see Stars/Mavericks games. The Cowboys and Rangers are in Arlington which is about 20 minutes away.
Facilities: Very good. TCOM's classes are held in a building that's gorgeous and only a few years old. The whole campus has wireless internet connectivity. Buildings are well-maintained. The gym is in a building that is small and older but well-equipped and not very crowded. I've never been unable to find parking, although that may change as class sizes grow and we open our pharmacy school this fall. The campus is about three blocks by two blocks and is easily walkable.
Cost: I understand that TCOM is one of the cheapest (if not the cheapest) DO schools in the country. Cost of attendance is about $44,000 per year for in-state and $60,000 per year for OOS. I'm in-state and that's pretty comparable with Texas allopathic schools which are very cheap compared to other states. Not sure how the OOS cost compares to other schools. TCOM is bound by state law to have at least 90% in-state students, so it's tough to get in if you're OOS.
Faculty: As with any school, we have some great instructors and some not-so-great instructors. I will say that our instructors this semester (spring) seem to be noticeably better than the fall. Objectives are clearly stated in our syllabi and you can expect exam questions to be pulled from those objectives. Faculty tend to be very responsive to questions and TCOM has post-exam reviews to go over questions if students don't know why they missed something or want to state their case for accepting multiple answers. I've had several excellent instructors and only one terrible one, so the good definitely outweighs the bad. Cell science (biochemistry) was mediocre with many heavily-accented instructors and I just didn't enjoy the minutiae. Neuroscience was very challenging due to a terrible lead instructor, I mainly taught myself. I think neuro was the exception to the rule and I hope that that lead instructor will be replaced next year due to numerous student complaints. PhDs are typically very good, clinical faculty (DOs & MDs) are excellent.
OMM: TCOM is big on OMM because we have the National Osteopathic Research Center. We basically lead every DO school in the country in OMM research. There are several federally-funded OMM research studies going at the moment. You can be a TA for OMM during the second year if you so desire (it's paid). OMM isn't so bad, lab is one afternoon a week for two hours.
Administration: We don't have a ton of interaction with administration; at least I haven't had any. Each TCOM class has a Course Director that is responsible for normal things. If you have a question about the schedule, curriculum, need an excused absence, or have something beyond what an instructor can provide, you go to the Curriculum Director who is assigned to the your class for the whole year. The Dean is pretty responsive to our concerns. Every month there's a monthly Dean's Table Meeting where students can air concerns/issues and try to get them resolved. There has been some turmoil lately between UNTHSC and UNT. The UNT system seems to want to merge with UNTHSC, so the health science center would no longer be a separate university. We will see what happens. I'm not sure that it will affect me while I'm here.
Reputation: TCOM has an excellent reputation in Texas and other states. Last year we had a higher USMLE Step 1 average score than some of the Texas allopathic schools. My friends who are in clinical rotations or have graduated remarked that many of their preceptors really liked TCOM grads and had great things to say about TCOM students. The impression I get is that TCOM students are just as capable as Texas allopathic students if not more so (trying to be humble here).
Clinical Rotations: Again, I'm not there yet. Our clinical sites are Fort Worth, Dallas, Longview, Conroe, Baytown, and Corpus Christi. ROME students (rural medicine scholars) are assigned to smaller, more rural areas throughout the state. The vast majority of TCOM students are assigned to Fort Worth, where you will rotate at JPS, Harris Methodist, Cook Children's, and Plaza. Dallas students go to Methodist Dallas. Conroe students go to Conroe Regional Medical Center. Corpus students go to Christus Spohn, Driscoll Children's, and Bay Area Medical Center. I'm not sure where Baytown students go. Conroe/Baytown spots are hard to get due to the Houston folks that want to go back home. Dallas/Longview/Corpus slots don't seem to be hard to get (from what I hear). I've heard good things about JPS and Harris Methodist. JPS is a level 1 trauma center and the county hospital. Harris Methodist is a level 2 trauma center. Plaza gets mixed reviews, depending on what you're rotating there for. I haven't heard anything about rotations at Cook Children's. JPS and Plaza both have residency programs. Methodist Dallas students seem to be happy/satisfied with their rotations. I can't say anything about Longview, Conroe, or Baytown. I hear awesome things about pediatrics rotations at Driscoll in Corpus Christi.
Housing: There's no on-campus housing so everyone lives off-campus. Housing is pretty reasonable although properties very close to the school can get quite pricy. It's very possible to live within 5 minutes of the campus for $500-700/month if you look early/long enough. There are a multitude of apartments, houses, and condominiums for rent. You can find plenty of places close-by and they tend to get cheaper as you get farther away from the campus. I'm living about 0.75 miles from campus and pay $600/month for a one bedroom apartment.
Technology: Each incoming class will be issued brand-new laptops, the brand/model changes each year in response to feedback from the prior year. Everyone in my class was issued a Dell XPS13 Ultrabook (similar to a Macbook Air) and an iPad 3. The whole campus has wireless internet connectivity. We use iClickers to answer questions in class. The library has desktop computers you can use, if you desire.
Study Areas: Adequate, considering that our campus only has ~2,000 students. The library has three levels. The bottom floor has the circulation desk and some couches and study tables. The middle floor is a group collaborative study area and has a bunch of tables and booths, along with some group study rooms. The top floor is a quiet floor where talking is not allowed. It has tables, couches individual carrels and some study rooms. Also, our class building has 15-20 different study rooms on floors 2 and 4 that can be used if not reserved for a class or meeting. The library building is open 24 hours. It can get crowded when more than one program (TCOM, PA, PT) have an exam looming, but I've always been able to find a table to study at.
Social Scene: Decent. If you went to a larger university or moved from a major metropolitan area, Fort Worth will seem pretty sleepy. We have two modest bar districts close-by (West 7th Street and Downtown). Most of the concerts are for country music. Fort Worth is known as "Cowtown" and the city slogan is "Where the West Begins". There are a few good places around for happy hours and we have an unofficial campus pub which is about a block away from my class building. Fort Worth isn't as happening as other cities but you can definitely go out and have a fun time. Unfortunately, my class isn't super sociable and only tends to go out the night after a test or when we are on break. We have a fairly full schedule but there's definitely time to go out as long as you keep on top of your studies.
Local Hospitals: see "clinical rotations" above. The local Fort Worth hospitals are JPS, Harris Methodist, Plaza, and Cook Children's. There's also Baylor All-Saints but I don't know if we do any rotations there.
Board Prep: Second years just finished class last week (first week of May) to study for boards. The school does not provide any formal board prep like Kaplan, but does provide access to Kaplan USMLE and COMLEX Qbanks. Most students take both the USMLE and COMLEX.. TCOM has been in the top 3 schools for COMLEX scores for the past five years, and has been #1 several times in the past ten years.
Specialty Matching: TCOM places students in great residency programs. About ½ of the class stays in Texas for residency and ½ goes OOS. Most of our students match into ACGME residencies and our latest match list speaks for itself: http://forums.sdn.net/showpost.php?p=13990936&postcount=1276 We do match a lot of students into FM/IM/Peds, but that's because students want to do that and not because they don't have a choice.
Curriculum: A-
Location: A
Facilities: A+
Cost: A+
Faculty: A-
Reputation: A+
Technology: A
Study Space/Library: B+
Library Technology/Resources: A
Rotations: Can't weigh in, not there yet
Social: B
Hospitals: A
Overall Grade: A+
Curriculum: Systems-based block schedule. We only do one organ system/unit at a time (ex. cardio, neuroscience, immune) and focus on that. We learn the anatomy, physiology, embryology, pharmacology, some pathophysiology, and radiology. The advantage of this is that you don't drag out courses all year (great for ADD types like me) and you don't have to worry about finals. I really, really like that. Gross anatomy lab runs 2-3 afternoons a week from August until March of first year. OMM lab is one afternoon a week for two hours. In addition to your systems courses, there are a few semester-long courses like OMM lecture, medical ethics, clinical interviewing, clinical medicine (learn how to use diagnostic equipment, physical exams, and write charts), community medical resources (learn about Medicare, Medicaid, indigent health care programs, child abuse agencies, women's health services, etc.), and a scattering of geriatrics lectures. Class is a mixture of lectures and MLMs, where faculty present clinical cases and questions which everyone answers via iClicker (not graded). You typically have an exam every two weeks. As an osteopathic school, we have the longest school year of any Texas medical school due to OMM. Most allopathic medical schools have 8-10 weeks off for summer break, we only get 6. That's just the nature of the beast. Second year has fewer lectures/less required class time but you are expected to read/self-teach a lot more. Lectures are audio-recorded which is great. I don't go to lectures if they are recorded, I listen to them at accelerated speed and I get more out of class that way.
Location: The campus is located in the cultural district which is one of the nicest areas of Fort Worth. We are 3-5 minutes from downtown Fort Worth and have easy access to highways to get around the metroplex. There are a lot of restaurants, museums, bars, and parks close-by. Fort Worth is a large city but has a small-town feel. Traffic is minimal (at least for me) and people are friendly. If you move from a big party town you'll probably be disappointed with the amount of nightlife/concerts/festivals, but it is what it is. Dallas is much more active in that regard and is 30-40 miles away. Lots of my classmates go out in Dallas on the weekends to go to bars or see Stars/Mavericks games. The Cowboys and Rangers are in Arlington which is about 20 minutes away.
Facilities: Very good. TCOM's classes are held in a building that's gorgeous and only a few years old. The whole campus has wireless internet connectivity. Buildings are well-maintained. The gym is in a building that is small and older but well-equipped and not very crowded. I've never been unable to find parking, although that may change as class sizes grow and we open our pharmacy school this fall. The campus is about three blocks by two blocks and is easily walkable.
Cost: I understand that TCOM is one of the cheapest (if not the cheapest) DO schools in the country. Cost of attendance is about $44,000 per year for in-state and $60,000 per year for OOS. I'm in-state and that's pretty comparable with Texas allopathic schools which are very cheap compared to other states. Not sure how the OOS cost compares to other schools. TCOM is bound by state law to have at least 90% in-state students, so it's tough to get in if you're OOS.
Faculty: As with any school, we have some great instructors and some not-so-great instructors. I will say that our instructors this semester (spring) seem to be noticeably better than the fall. Objectives are clearly stated in our syllabi and you can expect exam questions to be pulled from those objectives. Faculty tend to be very responsive to questions and TCOM has post-exam reviews to go over questions if students don't know why they missed something or want to state their case for accepting multiple answers. I've had several excellent instructors and only one terrible one, so the good definitely outweighs the bad. Cell science (biochemistry) was mediocre with many heavily-accented instructors and I just didn't enjoy the minutiae. Neuroscience was very challenging due to a terrible lead instructor, I mainly taught myself. I think neuro was the exception to the rule and I hope that that lead instructor will be replaced next year due to numerous student complaints. PhDs are typically very good, clinical faculty (DOs & MDs) are excellent.
OMM: TCOM is big on OMM because we have the National Osteopathic Research Center. We basically lead every DO school in the country in OMM research. There are several federally-funded OMM research studies going at the moment. You can be a TA for OMM during the second year if you so desire (it's paid). OMM isn't so bad, lab is one afternoon a week for two hours.
Administration: We don't have a ton of interaction with administration; at least I haven't had any. Each TCOM class has a Course Director that is responsible for normal things. If you have a question about the schedule, curriculum, need an excused absence, or have something beyond what an instructor can provide, you go to the Curriculum Director who is assigned to the your class for the whole year. The Dean is pretty responsive to our concerns. Every month there's a monthly Dean's Table Meeting where students can air concerns/issues and try to get them resolved. There has been some turmoil lately between UNTHSC and UNT. The UNT system seems to want to merge with UNTHSC, so the health science center would no longer be a separate university. We will see what happens. I'm not sure that it will affect me while I'm here.
Reputation: TCOM has an excellent reputation in Texas and other states. Last year we had a higher USMLE Step 1 average score than some of the Texas allopathic schools. My friends who are in clinical rotations or have graduated remarked that many of their preceptors really liked TCOM grads and had great things to say about TCOM students. The impression I get is that TCOM students are just as capable as Texas allopathic students if not more so (trying to be humble here).
Clinical Rotations: Again, I'm not there yet. Our clinical sites are Fort Worth, Dallas, Longview, Conroe, Baytown, and Corpus Christi. ROME students (rural medicine scholars) are assigned to smaller, more rural areas throughout the state. The vast majority of TCOM students are assigned to Fort Worth, where you will rotate at JPS, Harris Methodist, Cook Children's, and Plaza. Dallas students go to Methodist Dallas. Conroe students go to Conroe Regional Medical Center. Corpus students go to Christus Spohn, Driscoll Children's, and Bay Area Medical Center. I'm not sure where Baytown students go. Conroe/Baytown spots are hard to get due to the Houston folks that want to go back home. Dallas/Longview/Corpus slots don't seem to be hard to get (from what I hear). I've heard good things about JPS and Harris Methodist. JPS is a level 1 trauma center and the county hospital. Harris Methodist is a level 2 trauma center. Plaza gets mixed reviews, depending on what you're rotating there for. I haven't heard anything about rotations at Cook Children's. JPS and Plaza both have residency programs. Methodist Dallas students seem to be happy/satisfied with their rotations. I can't say anything about Longview, Conroe, or Baytown. I hear awesome things about pediatrics rotations at Driscoll in Corpus Christi.
Housing: There's no on-campus housing so everyone lives off-campus. Housing is pretty reasonable although properties very close to the school can get quite pricy. It's very possible to live within 5 minutes of the campus for $500-700/month if you look early/long enough. There are a multitude of apartments, houses, and condominiums for rent. You can find plenty of places close-by and they tend to get cheaper as you get farther away from the campus. I'm living about 0.75 miles from campus and pay $600/month for a one bedroom apartment.
Technology: Each incoming class will be issued brand-new laptops, the brand/model changes each year in response to feedback from the prior year. Everyone in my class was issued a Dell XPS13 Ultrabook (similar to a Macbook Air) and an iPad 3. The whole campus has wireless internet connectivity. We use iClickers to answer questions in class. The library has desktop computers you can use, if you desire.
Study Areas: Adequate, considering that our campus only has ~2,000 students. The library has three levels. The bottom floor has the circulation desk and some couches and study tables. The middle floor is a group collaborative study area and has a bunch of tables and booths, along with some group study rooms. The top floor is a quiet floor where talking is not allowed. It has tables, couches individual carrels and some study rooms. Also, our class building has 15-20 different study rooms on floors 2 and 4 that can be used if not reserved for a class or meeting. The library building is open 24 hours. It can get crowded when more than one program (TCOM, PA, PT) have an exam looming, but I've always been able to find a table to study at.
Social Scene: Decent. If you went to a larger university or moved from a major metropolitan area, Fort Worth will seem pretty sleepy. We have two modest bar districts close-by (West 7th Street and Downtown). Most of the concerts are for country music. Fort Worth is known as "Cowtown" and the city slogan is "Where the West Begins". There are a few good places around for happy hours and we have an unofficial campus pub which is about a block away from my class building. Fort Worth isn't as happening as other cities but you can definitely go out and have a fun time. Unfortunately, my class isn't super sociable and only tends to go out the night after a test or when we are on break. We have a fairly full schedule but there's definitely time to go out as long as you keep on top of your studies.
Local Hospitals: see "clinical rotations" above. The local Fort Worth hospitals are JPS, Harris Methodist, Plaza, and Cook Children's. There's also Baylor All-Saints but I don't know if we do any rotations there.
Board Prep: Second years just finished class last week (first week of May) to study for boards. The school does not provide any formal board prep like Kaplan, but does provide access to Kaplan USMLE and COMLEX Qbanks. Most students take both the USMLE and COMLEX.. TCOM has been in the top 3 schools for COMLEX scores for the past five years, and has been #1 several times in the past ten years.
Specialty Matching: TCOM places students in great residency programs. About ½ of the class stays in Texas for residency and ½ goes OOS. Most of our students match into ACGME residencies and our latest match list speaks for itself: http://forums.sdn.net/showpost.php?p=13990936&postcount=1276 We do match a lot of students into FM/IM/Peds, but that's because students want to do that and not because they don't have a choice.
Curriculum: A-
Location: A
Facilities: A+
Cost: A+
Faculty: A-
Reputation: A+
Technology: A
Study Space/Library: B+
Library Technology/Resources: A
Rotations: Can't weigh in, not there yet
Social: B
Hospitals: A
Overall Grade: A+
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I'm a 2nd year at TCOM, and I just wanted to correct a small point: The school provided us with the Kaplan USMLE and COMLEX Qbanks for free at the beginning of the 2nd year. They also pay for us to take COMSAE. Unless I completely missed out on something, we were not given COMBANK.
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They may have provided different Qbanks in the past, so you may be correct
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just to chime in 44K is pretty middle of the road for DO schools if I'm not mistaken.
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Med students have 10's of thousands of expenses you don't*. Equipment, textbooks, board exams, board prep material, fees for away rotations, travel expenses and lodging for away rotations and interviews, fees to apply to residency, etc.
Not to mention some people have responsibilities beyond being a single person and support children or spouse at least in part.
So no, 28k a year is pretty reasonable average over 4 years.
*next post will probably be "oh but I pirated all my prep materials, only took COMLEX, didn't do any away rotations, applied to only 1 AOA program and am single so blah blah" nobody cares
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It seems like a lot but it gets eaten up pretty fast, depending on your rent and how often you eat out/go out.
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True, I think we're the cheapest for tuition/fees. This is based on 2012 data, courtesy of SDNer ManBroDude:
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Your right, I hadn't thought about all the away rotation plus studying charges. But at the same time I don't think its fair to say that nobody cares. Some people are in that "blah blah blah" situation so it would be valuable to see a more personalized estimate of what to expect for loans.
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No one realistically should be in the blah blah blah zone, you should be taking USMLE and COMLEX both step 1 and 2, you should be paying for good prep materials, you should doing away rotations for a chunk of your fourth year.
And you should absolutely blow 10k on applying to residencies and apply really widely to ACGME programs.
And you should absolutely blow 10k on applying to residencies and apply really widely to ACGME programs.
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Word. You only get one shot at it. Why **** it up to save a few dollars?
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What's wrong with MSUCOM? Why don't they just charge 100,000 per year and be done with it?
And I thought CCOM was expensive. Mind you, their tuition for 2013-2014 is going to be 56k.
And I thought CCOM was expensive. Mind you, their tuition for 2013-2014 is going to be 56k.
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It's for out of state. I believe in state msucom is very reasonable.
Ccom and azcom are real pricey though.
Sent from my Galaxy S4
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and WVSOM for OOS
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G
gmcguitar4
It's funny how these schools aim to train primary care physicians..yet they are more expensive than most medical schools. They should change their mission statements to "we aim to train primary care physicians and ensure you are in debt the rest of your life."
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Here I was thinking my DO school was the only one with some of these problems haha at least you arent alone.... I can definitely vouch my school has these problems
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It's a complete supply and demand issue. Only so many spots at cheaper schools, many of which are also very competitive. Many people want to be doctors, and are willing to pay premium prices to get their goal. It sucks, but it will continue until tuition is 100k a year and when there really is no benefit to pursuing a degree because of the financial and time costs, and really no benefits. At least in family med right now, you get a stable job and can still pay off the debts, no matter how high. Any US DO/MD will at least match a FM program.
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Ha! When I started at KCUMB, its president was a lawyer. Turned out she was embezzling $$$ from the school (on top of her $1.2 million per year salary), with a little tax fraud on the side.
(Though to its credit, KCUMB seems to have gotten its financial house in order. This doesn't appear to be an issue now since they've apparently decreased tuition next year.)
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Thanks for the clarification. That's definitely changed some since my class came down the pike.
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Can you expand a little bit on what you mean by 4th year being messed up in your opinion? You said the same thing in another recent post. Are you referring to the fact that only 2 weeks are given for vacation in June for board studying? 😳
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Well, I'm convinced that who ever designed the study rooms in the new WesternU building never set foot inside a study room before. You know... with a room designed to fit 6-7 people that's barely large enough to do that and 6 electrical plugs... 4 of which is under the table and 2 ethernet ports. Oh, wait... that's right. They added a switch that sits on top of the table now. Make that 10 ehternet ports, but only 5 electrical plugs. Let's not forget that half of these are on an exterior wall, but have no exterior windows.
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Spirituality is for those who have been there.
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You hit nail on the head so hard, theres a little piece of nail poking up somewhere in ChinaDont forget the internet that doesnt work half the time when you are REQUIRED to be in the rooms for small groups and need the internet to look up things
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You're still blaming the school for your poor/mediocre performance? 👍
I will be graduating from NYCOM this weekend. My experience was incredible and I matched. It has everything to do with making the most of every opportunity and never expected anything to be done for me.
I think the problem is there seems to be a large cohort of spoiled crybabies who expected the ceremonial spoon feeding they have experienced their whole lives to carry on through med school. These are the people who troll around "OMG the test was hard!" --> "OMG nobody made my fourth year schedule for me?!" --> "OMG I didn't match?!". It's all about your attitude.
I got every rotation I applied to fourth year. This included Centers of Excellence in NYC, aways across the country, rotations that have never seen a DO rotate, and each Sub-I I wanted in the NYCOMEC system. I submitted all paperwork early and made sure all my away hospitals had received/sent proper materials. When things were not I was prompt and polite. BE PROACTIVE and assume things will go wrong.
NYCOM
PROS:
-Anatomy: of all the MD/DO schools I had interviewed at and visited since, NYCOM has the most impressive anatomy lab and teaching. Hands down. This is the foundation of every medical education.
-Clinical Preparation: My Level 2 PE was a breeeeeze thanks to the 2 years of prep NYCOM provides. While on aways, attendings frequently complimented my clinical skills.
-Technology: all lectures are video streamed, you can watch on your own time 24/7
-Course Layout: systems based, well organized
-OMM: not too little, not too much, enough where you walk away with a truly useful and applicable (read billable) skill set
-Breadth of Clinical rotation sites: You can apply for regional rotations and stay at one hospital (better option, better hospitals, but competitive) or leave it up to a lottery
-Social: tons of clubs, great lunch guest lectures, tons of post-exam parties/dances--- might seem trivial, but they understand that you need time to relax in order to perform well. I can honestly say I had a blast in medical school and was surrounded by great people.
CONS:
-Non-Clinician Professors:if NYCOM has a downfall this is it, too many non-clinicians, this makes for a tougher transition too board studying, I made out just fine with my own supplemental text reading, bringing in more clinicians would bring NYCOM to a whole different level
-"Scholars Program": Program where students take a year off b/w MS3 and MS4 to teach lectures and do research. Another source of non-clinician teaching. How an MS3 teaching you lectures benefits the general student body is beyond me. Only benefits the scholars.
-Career Advisement: There is a retired dentist who advises all students. He has no idea what he is doing. I realized this early on and took things into my own hands, but I don't think this is fair to students. The Dentist has to go.
I would do it all over again.
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I have been told by third year students who are trying to make their fourth year schedules, that the people who schedule fourth year rotations/electives just don't know what they're doing, are very disorganized, forget your requests, are not helpful with processing the necessary paperwork, give you rotations you didn't request, and give you one and then take it away because it didn't "fit" accordingly in the schedule. However, clearly mbe36, who I believe matched into Urology (congratulations!), did not have that experience, so I guess its all relative. As I said before, I'm still a second year so of course my opinion of the school may change once I get into my third and fourth year, and graduate 🙂 But, my opinion of the first two years still stand--especially about the randomness/WTF-type of material depicted on exams, and how they are super non-board relevant.
I agree, I graduated NYCOM. I had my entire 4th year exactly how I wanted it. (and my 3rd year schedule as well) Matched my #1 choice. You can't complain about NYCOMs great match list every year, they must be doing something right. It is a very hard school, but the boards are hard, just need to get used to it.
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Won't get much argument from me on that, I agree to an extent. I'm a third year and supposedly our class did poorly on their step 1 boards compared to other past classes.
As for 4th year schedule, I have run into very few issues, but I admit to not putting anything competitive and traditionally hard to get except for 1-2 specialty rotations within nycomec. However, I made sure to put them towards the ass-end of 4th year so as to not butt heads with auditioning students. Them forgetting requests, I have experienced though with my VSAS, which I had to fix with phone calls. People I know who are having scheduling issues are the ones that either waited until the last minute, and/or were undecided about what they wanted.
any MS3/MS4s want to throw out thoughts on RVU?
