Pros and cons of your DO school?

[Doctoscope]

The most recent one of these that I could find was from awhile back, so I was looking to get some newer, more recent perspectives. What do you enjoy and hate about your DO school? Which schools least emphasize the voodoo f***ery that is OMM?

(Also specifically curious about DMU and TUNCOM if current students would like to comment on it.)

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[Dr_Jan_I_Tor]

AZCOM here.

1 hour, 20 mins a week of OMM (which is too much for my liking personally but... DO tax.. and it's probably less than most schools).

Like: that they aren't obsessed with convincing everyone to do family medicine or working in free clinics down by the border. Of course they encourage community service & have the student run clinic but it's not a major deal. The OMS3-4 grapevine says they WANT you to specialize.

Dislike: this is weird and petty but campus doesn't feel like a medical school or even a university. I don't know how to explain it, I guess the buildings are all just blah office-y looking deals.
The price is outrageous too of course.

 

[Goro]

The most recent one of these that I could find was from awhile back, so I was looking to get some newer, more recent perspectives. What do you enjoy and hate about your DO school? Which schools least emphasize the voodoo f***ery that is OMM?

(Also specifically curious about DMU and TUNCOM if current students would like to comment on it.)

I'm curious as to who still requires le ture attendance, and/or a dress code

 

[scoopdaboop]

KCU

likes: omm lab is twice a week? for about 1 -2 hours, forgot already. OMM exams here can be tough, but basically force you to hammer in spine so you never forget which is good for boards.

Tuition is cheap. Started at like 44.5 in 2019, halted cuz covid, then now it's like 48.5? Either way, one of the cheaper private med schools.

The admin listens to students.

Dislikes: Not much, never had an issue. Some people might complain about overly hard exams, but whatever.

 

[Tragal Pointer]

Whatever happened to that catholic DO school in Texas? Sacred Heart School of the Sacred Femur or some such

 

[Real McCoy]

Whatever happened to that catholic DO school in Texas? Sacred Heart School of the Sacred Femur or some such

There is a new one supposedly opening at Benedictine College in Kansas.

New Medical School

 

[MisterMukwa]

Dislikes: the 2 hours of OMM per week and potentially being disrespected by future PDs for the 2 letters behind my name.

That’s it. Other than that, I have had no issues with my school and think they actually do a decent job.

 

[Starbuxian]

Whatever happened to that catholic DO school in Texas? Sacred Heart School of the Sacred Femur or some such

University Of Incarnate Word School Of Osteopathic Medicine​

 

[PhD_to_DO]

UIWSOM

Pros:
1) Class days 8a-12p, Mon-Fri for the first two years
2) P/F - Not terribly competitive student body
3) Good relations with UTSA Long SOM - Access to research
4) Small but growing research footprint on campus
5) Growing scholarship support
6) Cheap to live in SA
7) OMT is about a hour and 20 min weekly
8) Good student support services
9) Policies regarding remediation are very fair

Cons:
1) Mandatory attendance as of Fall 2022
2) Written, free response exams
3) Dress code

Changes:
1) New dean (From COMP-NW)
2) Board-style questions from COMBANK starting this unit; from what I understand, our unit exsm will consist of two blocks of written questions and one of MCQs. The goal is to ultimately transition to 100% board-style MCQs

 

[dontknowwhattodo]

AZCOM here.

1 hour, 20 mins a week of OMM (which is too much for my liking personally but... DO tax.. and it's probably less than most schools).

Like: that they aren't obsessed with convincing everyone to do family medicine or working in free clinics down by the border. Of course they encourage community service & have the student run clinic but it's not a major deal. The OMS3-4 grapevine says they WANT you to specialize.

Dislike: this is weird and petty but campus doesn't feel like a medical school or even a university. I don't know how to explain it, I guess the buildings are all just blah office-y looking deals.
The price is outrageous too of course.

UNECOM has 4 hours of OMM every single week. Consider yourself extremely lucky.

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

ACOM pro: does a pretty good job preparing for clinicals


Con: absolutely ruthless with dismissals, have a super unforgiving policy. You have literally only one chance to repeat a course, a second failure is instant dismissal. Some people only fail one systems course, mess up the remediation test, and are dismissed after literally failing one course. Out of the 210 we started with we're probably down to 170 people from that original group

 

[DO2015CA]

ACOM pro: does a pretty good job preparing for clinicals


Con: absolutely ruthless with dismissals, have a super unforgiving policy. You have literally only one chance to repeat a course, a second failure is instant dismissal. Some people only fail one systems course, mess up the remediation test, and are dismissed after literally failing one course. Out of the 210 we started with we're probably down to 170 people from that original group

Lol that’s wild. Making it basically what my class size was (150+12). Maybe they don’t have the rotations to support 210

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

Lol that’s wild. Making it basically what my class size was (150+12). Maybe they don’t have the rotations to support 210

Nah I think they do which is the weird part

 

[Osminog]

Out of the 210 we started with we're probably down to 170 people from that original group

Impressive. With attrition rates that high, ACOM may very well be on its way to becoming an honorary Caribbean school.

 

[Tragal Pointer]

There is a new one supposedly opening at Benedictine College in Kansas.

New Medical School

"After graduation, new doctors will take part in a residency program for further training."

A bold statement.

 

[Grifalicious]

ACOM pro: does a pretty good job preparing for clinicals


Con: absolutely ruthless with dismissals, have a super unforgiving policy. You have literally only one chance to repeat a course, a second failure is instant dismissal. Some people only fail one systems course, mess up the remediation test, and are dismissed after literally failing one course. Out of the 210 we started with we're probably down to 170 people from that original group

For what it's worth, they did make it a little more forgiving the first semester-- you now have the option to remediate Anatomy or Molec over the summer if you get between a 65 and a 69, rather than having to repeat the first year. The policy with systems courses is definitely pretty harsh. I believe our second year class is somewhere in the mid-190s now (from 210).

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

For what it's worth, they did make it a little more forgiving the first semester-- you now have the option to remediate Anatomy or Molec over the summer if you get between a 65 and a 69, rather than having to repeat the first year. The policy with systems courses is definitely pretty harsh. I believe our second year class is somewhere in the mid-190s now (from 210).

We had a bunch from our class drop down into yours, they doing ok?

 

[Grifalicious]

We had a bunch from our class drop down into yours, they doing ok?

I believe we lost some during the first semester, but it seems like the repeating students are doing well, overall! I'm hoping the school will look into why attrition rates have skyrocketed over the last couple years. Yes, we had COVID and online classes, but there have to be other factors. Some students worked with Dr. Kennedy on research that showed that online classes led to "high performers" doing better, while "low performers" failed at much higher rates (went from a normal bell curve to a bimodal distribution).

To answer the original question:

ACOM Pros: Clinical education, simulation program, board prep resources, community

ACOM Cons: Remediation policy, Attendance policy (though this seems to be changing, but we'll see what happens), A-B-C-F grading

Definitely happy with my decision to attend ACOM! You have to put in the work, but that's true for any med school, especially those which are not P/F.

 

[hellosnd]

WesternU COMP

Pros:
1) Location
2) Strong alumni network
3) Decent/Great (for DO school) local residency matches
4) Rep for being a solid DO program
5) I think our board pass rates are high? School doesn't publish USMLE stats or averages so idk but COMLEX ppl seem to pass fine.

Cons:
1) Clinical Education department is not very helpful
2) Clinical rotation sites are all over the place and huge variances in quality
3) Lack of school set-up rotations in certain specialties. You need to go out of your way to set these up yourself if you are interested
4) Lot of emphasis on OMM, *wasted* 4 weeks in 3rd year doing OMM rotation
5) Limited clinical experience during pre-clinical years
6) Price is absurdly high, I think we are the most indebted medical students in California.

4th year here so I can't speak much about preclinical education anymore, especially post-COVID changes. When I was 1-2 year, I had a few mandatory lectures a week + mandatory OMM/Anatomy Labs. No dress code outside of labs and SP encounters.

 

[Unlucky Asian]

TUNCOM
Pro:
omm is like 1-1.5hrs per week and pretty chill
jewish holidays are pog
free food pretty often

Con:
free food is kosher so no meat + cheese together
common admin things
(rumors that lecture may become mandatory based on how doomed our current 3rd years are)

 

[step2issue]

LECOM-Erie
Pros:
cheap
PBL pathway allows for self-led learning
Some clinical sites are decent with access to residencies in many specialties

Cons:
No individualized support in general
Many clinical sites are terrible and the school doesn't care despite complaints/awareness of this
School is unwilling to accommodate anything for your schedule- this matters when applying to specialties
School doesn't care what specialty you match to- lowest common denominator type of counseling
Dr. Kevin Thomas is a true narcissist and mistreats students and has a lot of interaction with them- defended by school despite countless complaints
Relentless expansion with lack of focus on quality of existing campuses
Unreasonable everyday policies that indicates strong paternal vibes from the school. They "know what's best for you" when you have to dress like an uncomfortable clown to learn, are assigned seats, mandatory attendance, and can't drink water during hours of lectures.

 

[ortnakas]

@step2issue , is Kevin Thomas at Erie now? “Back in my day” he was at Seton Hill. I graduated 2018 so I’m out of the loop.

Good luck with everything. Life’s better after LECOM.

 

[pbroome]

TUNCOM
Pro:
omm is like 1-1.5hrs per week and pretty chill
jewish holidays are pog
free food pretty often

Con:
free food is kosher so no meat + cheese together
common admin things
(rumors that lecture may become mandatory based on how doomed our current 3rd years are)

Could you explain what you mean about the doomed third years?

 

[parasiteeater13]

CUSOM, just about to finish first year

Pros: OMM - 2 hours per week and is not strongly preached ( tho we have a professor that rejected a IM residency at Harvard, just to do OMT)
No mandatory attendance
Dress is said to be required yet I found myself in scrubs for in-house quizzes/exams most of the time.
A lot of research opportunities outside the school (Duke, Wake Forest, etc.)

Cons: rural (unless you're into this), 3rd year rotation placement seats are starting to be limited at certain sites due to opening of new schools in NC

 

[cantankerous]

Could you explain what you mean about the doomed third years?

High first time fail rates for level 1, several problem students, little bit whiny/snitches (who reports 4th years for going to too manyinterviews during rotation months wtf). School is not feeling great about their match chances since the class haven't been humbled yet with p/f comlex/step1.

TUNCOM
Pros:
- location: good COL near all amenities, cultural/ethnic diversity, nature/hikes, night life
- local rotations: they can keep you in Vegas for all of 3rd and 4th year for rotations if you so desire. Home program is pretty much Valley Hospital and maybe Valley Health System.
- light OMM but plenty of opportunities to expand on it if you're interested
- clinical faculty really have your back. If you end up in the SOAP, several faculty spend the whole time on campus that week to help you with the whole process. Other schools do not do this. When you need it, the school will be there for you.
- mild winter, sunny almost everyday

Cons:
- Not many research opportunities? Las Vegas is not the most academic town..... You can get something but can't be too picky with local offerings. You are close to Socal, Utah if you want to find more higher power researchers
- hot summers
- absolutely hideous campus but idk how much that'll matter after first year
- OB rotations are kinda the pits. There aren't enough OBs in Vegas much less enough to teach for two local med schools. Abunch of third years have to do it virtually.
- Vegas standard of care is a little scary at times but it'll teach you to be adaptable and flexible when you have to in practice no matter your environment.

 

[DO2015CA]

High first time fail rates for level 1, several problem students, little bit whiny/snitches (who reports 4th years for going to too manyinterviews during rotation months wtf). School is not feeling great about their match chances since the class haven't been humbled yet with p/f comlex/step1.

TUNCOM
Pros:
- location: good COL near all amenities, cultural/ethnic diversity, nature/hikes, night life
- local rotations: they can keep you in Vegas for all of 3rd and 4th year for rotations if you so desire. Home program is pretty much Valley Hospital and maybe Valley Health System.
- light OMM but plenty of opportunities to expand on it if you're interested
- clinical faculty really have your back. If you end up in the SOAP, several faculty spend the whole time on campus that week to help you with the whole process. Other schools do not do this. When you need it, the school will be there for you.
- mild winter, sunny almost everyday

Cons:
- Not many research opportunities? Las Vegas is not the most academic town..... You can get something but can't be too picky with local offerings. You are close to Socal, Utah if you want to find more higher power researchers
- hot summers
- absolutely hideous campus but idk how much that'll matter after first year
- OB rotations are kinda the pits. There aren't enough OBs in Vegas much less enough to teach for two local med schools. Abunch of third years have to do it virtually.
- Vegas standard of care is a little scary at times but it'll teach you to be adaptable and flexible when you have to in practice no matter your environment.

Just curious what you mean by Vegas standard of care. If you have an examples.

 

[sadburrito]

KCU

likes: omm lab is twice a week? for about 1 -2 hours, forgot already. OMM exams here can be tough, but basically force you to hammer in spine so you never forget which is good for boards.

Tuition is cheap. Started at like 44.5 in 2019, halted cuz covid, then now it's like 48.5? Either way, one of the cheaper private med schools.

The admin listens to students.

Dislikes: Not much, never had an issue. Some people might complain about overly hard exams, but whatever.

may i ask which campus you are at?

 

[scoopdaboop]

may i ask which campus you are at?

was at joplin.

 

[Unlucky Asian]

Could you explain what you mean about the doomed third years?

Online exams during covid + 3 attempts to pass = students who didn't have to study at all for their preclin years -> bad board scores/extremely delayed exam dates(some were still taking their exams in august) + bad rotation performance

Thought of another con: "dedicated" is like a month so pretty lame

 

[Cornfed101]

RVUCOM-CO
Pros:

• Lots of rotation opportunities in Denver and the surrounding cities. Most students rotate either in Denver, north Denver, or Colorado Springs.
• NBME shelf exams during 3rd year. I have barely thought about OMM this year
• They typically have a slew of good matches in competitive specialties
• Unparalleled COA if you need it. Having $40k for living expenses is a lot but helpful for someone like myself with 3 kids
• Kristen, my 4th year advisor. She is amazing

Cons:

• Expensive. They raised tuition $2000 during Covid because they “had extra expenses.” Yeah zoom is so expensive
• They don’t pay for anything. You are responsible for literally every resource, background check, drug screen, etc
• They added another campus in Montana and are adding like 50 more students to each campus. Boo
• They often just get in the way of my education. We had a meeting at the beginning of 3rd year that detailed all the stupid rules and restrictions that we need to live by. I just ended up not talking to them. Need to take some time off? Sick day? I never mentioned it to RVU

 

[scoopdaboop]

• They often just get in the way of my education. We had a meeting at the beginning of 3rd year that detailed all the stupid rules and restrictions that we need to live by. I just ended up not talking to them. Need to take some time off? Sick day? I never mentioned it to RVU

this is standard good advice everywhere. don't tell your school you're taking days off etc. lol

 

[Bluesandstuff]

ATSU-SOMA

Pros
- You are generally well prepared for outpatient clinicals
- Faculty are generally receptive to feedback
- Most of the faculty you actually interact with are super supportive
- Local RDMEs are as a group awesome and supportive
- We’re old enough to have a good number of alums opening doors for us at residencies ect
- DOs know AT Still and we get mixed in with KCOM
- Most lectures aren’t mandatory

Cons
- Tuition
- Lots of OMT 4 hrs a week
- BNB is better board prep than anything the school gives you
- The 1 + 3 is actually a bummer. You miss so much of your friends and gain very little by moving for second year.
- We literally had our school hire and remove a Dean of curriculum (A dude we hired from LECOM) and president in under a year. New president is MUCH better. But that bar is low and it basically means they haven’t implemented draconian policies or unreasonable standards for passing.
- CHCs have inconsistent resources. Resources seem spread thin with the number of sites the school has.
- They keep trying to do things to help scores go up that actually just get in the way of people studying.
- The most recent class had 162 day one and is graduating ~130. This stands to improve with the aforementioned benching but still is a bad look.
- Minimal support if you aren’t going into FM, maybe EM or PM&R

 

[officially_apostate]

@step2issue , is Kevin Thomas at Erie now? “Back in my day” he was at Seton Hill. I graduated 2018 so I’m out of the loop.

Good luck with everything. Life’s better after LECOM.

Yep he's at Erie now, had my "interview" this year with LECOM and he was on the Zoom. Talked down to all of us applicants. Left a bad taste in my mouth. I already knew about LECOM's reputation, but this confirmed that it would not be a supportive environment if he's the dean of the Erie campus.

 

[MateoGM416]

Yep he's at Erie now, had my "interview" this year with LECOM and he was on the Zoom. Talked down to all of us applicants. Left a bad taste in my mouth. I already knew about LECOM's reputation, but this confirmed that it would not be a supportive environment if he's the dean of the Erie campus.

I would get used to faculty talking down to you no matter what school you go to lol