Rush vs. UIC-Chicago

Well, I'm in a weird position, since i was accepted at UIC but rejected from Rush (for really no apparent reason I can think of, honestly). I promise though I'm not bitter. I interviewed both places and here's my take on the differences:

UIC - wider diversity/opportunity of clinical experiences. There is just a tremendously long list of the places you can go, in all sorts of areas and communities. I think that's cool. It has a larger class size (300), but that's split up between campuses, so at the chicago campus there are 175 people, which is big but not horrendously huge. Oh yeah, and it's about $15,000 cheaper a year if you're an in-stater, which is a HUGE difference

Rush - being private, they have some nicer facilities, but to be honest I'm not that impressed with their academic building stuff, it seemed pretty comparable to UIC. Smaller class size, and they're really big on the whole "family" thing and being a close-knit group. Seems to be the case but I have no idea how it is when you're actually a student there. One doc I know who used to teach at UIC says that the docs at Rush don't like to teach and are only concerned about money. I can't remark on the validity of that statement, but that's what he told me.

Both are good schools, and you'll get a decent education. And UIC is way cheaper. But good luck deciding.

Well, I'm in a weird position, since i was accepted at UIC but rejected from Rush (for really no apparent reason I can think of, honestly). I promise though I'm not bitter. I interviewed both places and here's my take on the differences:

UIC - wider diversity/opportunity of clinical experiences. There is just a tremendously long list of the places you can go, in all sorts of areas and communities. I think that's cool. It has a larger class size (300), but that's split up between campuses, so at the chicago campus there are 175 people, which is big but not horrendously huge. Oh yeah, and it's about $15,000 cheaper a year if you're an in-stater, which is a HUGE difference. Plus, campus-wise, you have access to the amenities that the UIC undergrads have, like the union, gym, etc. That's definitely a plus.

Rush - being private, they have some nicer facilities, but to be honest I'm not that impressed with their academic building stuff, it seemed pretty comparable to UIC. Smaller class size, and they're really big on the whole "family" thing and being a close-knit group. Seems to be the case but I have no idea how it is when you're actually a student there. One doc I know who used to teach at UIC says that the docs at Rush don't like to teach and are only concerned about money. I can't remark on the validity of that statement, but that's what he told me.

Both are good schools, and you'll get a decent education. And UIC is way cheaper. But good luck deciding.

If accepted to both, the in-state tuition would be the deciding factor, so I would probably go with UIC.

I haven't even applied yet, so my opinions could change, but I have always been frugal!

i'd greatly appreciate if anyone could help me out on a couple questions about UIC:
1. rumor mill: i heard that if you get interviewed at UIC you are pretty much in - any validity with this?
2. is the chicago campus full yet?

thanks in advance

i'm in a similar situation to an above poster as I was accepted at UIC before Halloween and haven't heard a peep from Rush since they told me I was complete back at the end of August.

Going with the rankings, UIC is ranked at least while Rush didn't even make the list I don't believe. They both teach in a lot of the same hospitals, so that's not a huge factor really. Location is identical. I think it kind of comes down to tuition vs. class size...where i'd consider the large class at UIC a negative and the large tuition at Rush a negative, and just about everything else equal.

And, after all that considering, I'm going to Loyola so it doesn't make a huge difference anyways...although i suppose choosing the smaller private school means i would have chosen Rush over UIC if that were the choice for me.

jbrice, I agree with pretty much everything you said, except for the part about the clinical sites. While the campuses where you have class are in the same geographic locations, there is a huge difference in the variety of clinical sites one can go to in 3rd and 4th year. With Rush, you have 3 affiliated sites: Rush University Hospital, Rush North Shore (in Skokie) and Cook County - all of which are either in the city or near it. UIC, on the other hand, is affiliated with more than 25 different facilities all over the state of Illinois - in both metropolitan and more rural areas. So you really can get a wide variety of experiences if that's what you're looking for. The two schools do each have different pros and cons, but in terms of variety of clinical sites, UIC wins hands down.

thinknofu3 said:

jbrice, I agree with pretty much everything you said, except for the part about the clinical sites. While the campuses where you have class are in the same geographic locations, there is a huge difference in the variety of clinical sites one can go to in 3rd and 4th year. With Rush, you have 3 affiliated sites: Rush University Hospital, Rush North Shore (in Skokie) and Cook County - all of which are either in the city or near it. UIC, on the other hand, is affiliated with more than 25 different facilities all over the state of Illinois - in both metropolitan and more rural areas. So you really can get a wide variety of experiences if that's what you're looking for. The two schools do each have different pros and cons, but in terms of variety of clinical sites, UIC wins hands down.

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Rush-Copley in Aurora has an FP residency, so I imagine that would be a fourth affiliated hospital that you can get rural experience from. A lot of their doctors go out to Yorkville and a lot of people from the small towns out by Sandwich go to Copley doctors as well.

Megboo said:

Rush-Copley in Aurora has an FP residency, so I imagine that would be a fourth affiliated hospital that you can get rural experience from. A lot of their doctors go out to Yorkville and a lot of people from the small towns out by Sandwich go to Copley doctors as well.

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As Megboo begins to point out, you are rather off in your talk of Rush's sites. My wife is an M4 at Rush, and she's done rotations at a pretty diverse set of hospitals. For starters, there's a surprisingly large difference in the patience populations of Rush and CCH, despite their immediacy. Rush attracts a pretty diverse patient population, from a reasonably wide socioeconomic background. CCH tends to get lower-income patients - a larger percentage of minorities and patients lacking insurance. Rush North Shore has a largely caucasian patient population, and primarily much older patients. Also generally wealthier, given the northern suburban location. My wife did her surgery rotation there. Rush Oak Park is in the near western suburbs, and gives you more experience in a community hospital atmosphere rather than an academic facility. My wife did her OB rotation there. Rush Copley, as mentioned, is in Aurora and gives you more rural experience. My wife did her FP rotation there just a couple months ago, actually.

Additionally, there are numerous smaller sites and clinics at which you can do your rotations. I know there's a Pilsen location my wife could have chosen for FP, but she opted not to because she doesn't speak any Spanish. For those that do, that area would be wildly different from most of the others. From what I can recall, whenever my wife was planning a major rotation, she often had at least a dozen sites to choose from, sometimes more. Between them, they really offered as much diversity as you could want.

The two schools really do have a variety of plusses and minuses. I think you're way off-base though in your estimation of the range of experiences you can get through Rush's rotation sites. There are more sites, and more varied sites, than you think.

i'm not so sure about saving 15,000 per year at uic. it SEEMS to me (can someone pls verify this), that there are three summers where you're hit with an extra tuition bill.

seth03 said:

first of all, its not $15,000--it's over $30,000. Second, yes, but out of state residents have to pay the extra tuition during the final two summers as well.

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$32,487 for 3 semesters (Fall, Spring, Summer) a year at UIC vs. $52,515 for the academic year at Rush.

These are the posted tuition rates on their websites. Going to UIC over Rush will save you $20,028 yearly based on these numbers.

This is without taking into consideration grants or scholarships from either, just raw numbers from the websites. Doesn't include housing either, but since they're close to each other would be about the same.

This is for in-state applicants.

Megboo said:

$32,487 for 3 semesters (Fall, Spring, Summer) a year at UIC vs. $52,515 for the academic year at Rush.

These are the posted tuition rates on their websites. Going to UIC over Rush will save you $20,028 yearly based on these numbers.

This is without taking into consideration grants or scholarships from either, just raw numbers from the websites. Doesn't include housing either, but since they're close to each other would be about the same.

This is for in-state applicants.

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Actually, both those figures include housing and living expenses.

Furthermore, its also worthwhile to keep in mind that UIC charges students for the extra quarter during M3 and M4 (around $8-9,000 more), while the yearly tuition at Rush is essentially the same, give or take a couple thousand, for all four years...regardless of how many quarters youre in school.

CTG said:

I never thought I'd start one of these threads. Ultimately it's my decision, but I wanna hear what everyone has to say. Okay, go!

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Rush: private school with more support to its students for the first two years. It spreads out the first year, I heard, and only only one month off for the summer after first year. Nice facilities, nice library, etc. Clinicals: Cook County, Rush hospital, and other sites as mentioned above. I felt the students I worked with at Rush were very supportive of each other but were less diverse and more cohesive than UIC.

UIC: less student support, three months off for summer after first year. New facilities for labs, classrooms. Great professors for first two years but difficult for students to go to all classes. More diverse student body. More research offered. Clinicals:for Chicago campus- a wide variety of sites from VA, county, to private hospitals, and UIH, clinical sites in all types of areas from Pilsen, Lincoln park, south side, north side, etc. thus, good diverse clinical experiences.

Thus, it really depends what is important for you. If you can afford Rush and believe you need more student support go to Rush. If you need to do more research and want to be in a diverse student body, then go to UIC.

However, I believe the residencies in internal med, psych, surgery, neuro, ophtho, ortho, ENT, etc, at UIC are better than Rush and do attract better residents and you will be working with them. Also, if you want to go to one of the specialities at UIC such as the named above, I would really encourage you to go to UIC. In my opinion, Rush may have more support for its students and have nicer facilities, it is not at the cutting edge of technology and procedures as is UIC and its hospital. UIC, I admit, is not for someone who expects for them to guide them at each step of one's medical education, but once you get the hang of the system, it's really not that bad. Also, if as a student you can make it through UIC's system, you probably can make it anywhere because the emphasis is on self-learning and direction. I met some really amazing students at UIC. The ones that exceled were truly amazing. They ended up going to Johns Hopkins, Columbia, Mass General for really competitive specialties. Also, the diversity in the student body is just amazing. UIC has one of the largest student bodies of URM's in the nation that is not predominantly made up of URM's. Also, UIC has student groups for almost every religion and ethnicity. UIC also has student-run clinics and a plethora of clinical experiences one can choose from if you want to brush up on your clinical skills outside of clinical rotations. There is much more opportunity at UIC since it is a public and more research oriented institution.You can pursue a MPH while going to UICCOM. Also UIC has an MBA and medical informatics program. The clinical experiences can't be beat at UIC. But, yes, UIC will not hold your hand from the beginning. It is a difficult transition for some but eventually most students make it and become fine doctors!

If I were you, you should not let the tuition be the main factor in choosing a med school. You should choose a school based on your interests and qualities in which you will be HAPPY and excel.

psychedoc2b

Hrm this is a big question for me right now.

UIC:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_med_cost_public_brief.php
$24520 per year

Rush
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_med_cost_private_brief.php
$36702 per year

= about 12 g's a year saved

this translates to about 50k less debt after graduating. also, Rush is not ranked in USNews because they don't report to USNews, not because they didn't "make the list" (as was put forth in a previous post). The question to be answered: is Rush significantly better as a medical school to justify shelling out an additional 50 grand? I'm not so sure at this point. The interview day at UIC has a lot of room for improvement. I.e., they could actually SHOW you the CCH which is right across the street from the admissions office. I thought Rush did a much better job of selling the school on interview day. Anyway, it was heartening to hear about good teaching at UIC the first 2 years. That's something that I'm always looking for. Any current Rush/UIC students who have something to say about this?

Anyone know board average comparisons between UIC and Rush?

i thought the extra summer tuition at uic was true. it's so cheesy how non-forthright so many school websites are when it comes to telling you how much everything is going to cost. so cheesy. to any adcoms out there: it makes me think less of your school.

I have siblings/cousins who graduated from both UIC and Rush, and what I'ge gathered from talking to them is that while Rush is definitely better during the first two years, the clinical opportunities at UIC during M3 and M4 are better. All the UIC grads I know complain about their experiences during M1 and M2...the classes are very hit or miss, a lot are just plain poorly taught, there isnt much in the way of student support, the school's bureaucracy is inefficient and frustrating to deal with, and the facilities are subpar (apparently, its common practice among UIC students to use Rush's library instead of their own). To a certain extent, you end up teaching yourself the material. The consensus seems to be that M1 and M2 are just plain better at Rush (even among the UIC folk). At the same time though, they generally liked the diverse range of hospitals that you can do your clinical rotations at as a UIC student...and quite a few of them are happy that, unlike Rush students, they arent obligated to rotate through Cook County.

Students at Rush seem to be more pampered...though the lack of clinical options and the hefty price tag are definitely problematic for many. Ultimately, people seem pretty divided on which they prefer/recommend...I guess it just comes down to your own priorities and what youre looking for in a med school.

chef_NU said:

Hrm this is a big question for me right now.

UIC:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_med_cost_public_brief.php
$24520 per year

Rush
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_med_cost_private_brief.php
$36702 per year

= about 12 g's a year saved

this translates to about 50k less debt after graduating. also, Rush is not ranked in USNews because they don't report to USNews, not because they didn't "make the list" (as was put forth in a previous post). The question to be answered: is Rush significantly better as a medical school to justify shelling out an additional 50 grand? I'm not so sure at this point. The interview day at UIC has a lot of room for improvement. I.e., they could actually SHOW you the CCH which is right across the street from the admissions office. I thought Rush did a much better job of selling the school on interview day. Anyway, it was heartening to hear about good teaching at UIC the first 2 years. That's something that I'm always looking for. Any current Rush/UIC students who have something to say about this?

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CCH: one has to have an ID badge and pass security to get into CCH, now called Stroger's.

UIC:
Anatomy: Dr. Lieska: the god of anatomy who wins teaching awards yearly. Down-to-earth person very approachable. Go to saturday reviews= prepares for exams.
Physio: one exam per system. Professors again are approachable and if one does go to class as one should and do as many TLE's then you should pass.
Histo: this is a toughie. Need to study Ross and Romwell on your own probably. Do all slides and know them well. Great professors still and very approachable. Ths best advice is to study, study, and study for this is one of the harder classes.
biochem: just read handouts and do problems given out. go to review sessions.
genetics: just do the problems and go to review sessions.
behavioral science: considered an easy class but is a very interesting class.Just do TLE's if you want to go into more depth read the handouts but it's really hard to read all of them.

Go to all review sessions and do the practice exams given out in class and do TLE's which should be on the web.

If you want more advice just pm me. I probably can go on-and-on.

psychedoc2b

From the materials handed out at the interviews:

Rush tuition only, 2005-2006:
M1 = $39,024
M2 = $38,628
M3 = $36,204
M4 = $36,204

Rush does NOT charge extra for summer tuition. They also seemed to indicate that they have a bit more scholarship/grant money to offer.

Grand total for Rush (ignoring scholarships): $150,060

UIC tuition only, 2005-2006:
M1 - M4 = $12,061*2 semesters = $24,122

UIC *does* charge 2 summers' worth of tuition (M2 & M3), as bon_vivant stated. They didn't specificially break it down for the 2005-2006 year, but for the 2004-2005 year, each summer was $7,891. Since the tuition increased ~7%, I'll estimate the summer tuition increase at the same rate: $8,443, then *2 for 2 summers:$16,886.

Grand total for UIC: $113,374

Difference over 4 years: $36,686

That being said, while money is definitely an important factor in choosing a med school, there are other factors to be considered in concert with tuition. Both schools had very different "vibes" to me, and I could see people being ecstatic or miserable in either place, depending on their personality. Echoing others' impressions, people I've talked to who have thrived at UIC tend to be more independent and appreciated the diversity of their class. Some found the administration to be quite frustrating, but they said that they were pretty much left to do their own thing (a positive or negative, depending on your preferences). People at Rush seemed to really appreciate how nurturing and attentive the administration was, and the cohesiveness of the class.

sanford_w/o_son said:

i thought the extra summer tuition at uic was true. it's so cheesy how non-forthright so many school websites are when it comes to telling you how much everything is going to cost. so cheesy. to any adcoms out there: it makes me think less of your school.

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Yes, it is. If one does research, you can have a discount in your tuition at UIC. Also there are many scholarships to which one can apply. And, even if one does not apply to scholarships, there are economic hardship scholarships given out also.

I guess, one has to go hunting down for info on UIC but it's all there. And, IMO, UIC is overwhelmed with applicants who are knocking down their doors. Thus, they don't seem too interested in selling the place. Of course, it's a public insitution so again if you want the info, you need to find it yourself, unfortunately.

psychedoc2b

cubs08 said:

i'd greatly appreciate if anyone could help me out on a couple questions about UIC:
1. rumor mill: i heard that if you get interviewed at UIC you are pretty much in - any validity with this?
2. is the chicago campus full yet?

thanks in advance

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1. they accept about 65-70% of those they interview, so you are in good shape if you get an interview.

2. as of mid-december, the chicago campus was not filled (and still had plenty of room, to my knowledge). i don't know how this has changed in the last month, though.

chef_NU said:

2. as of mid-december, the chicago campus was not filled (and still had plenty of room, to my knowledge). i don't know how this has changed in the last month, though.

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and, there will certainly be more spots opening up as financial aid packets come out from other schools and people holding seats in the chicago campus give up their acceptances.

as soon as my employer gets around to getting my tax forms to me, i'll be giving up my seat at chicago. i'm sure i'm not alone.

chef_NU said:

Anyone know board average comparisons between UIC and Rush?

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Board scores are dependent on the individual. For instance, I have heard the average board scores for Rosalind Franklin University of Health Science are in the 230 range because most of them want to go into high paying specialties or want to go to CA from which a large number of them are from. You have to remember the tuition at RFUHS is sky high though. I believe the board scores at UICCOM are in the 220's and is class dependent. IMO, if you do well in your first two years and take the Kaplan course for Step 1 and do their Qbank, you should do better than just passing. I thought that UIC first two years were like board exam prep. UIC really tries to prepare the students for the Step 1 by making their exams more like the Step 1. Thus, if you do well on the exams at UIC for the first two years, you should not have any problems passing Step 1.

psychedoc2b

Just wanted to set the record straight on a few things (and get away from studying for boards for a while). I'm a fourth year at Rush with only 8 weeks left of medical school. I was also choosing between UIC and Rush, Even though I ultimately ended up at the perfect school for me, I recognize now that I did not know exactly what I should have been looking for while I was applying, what was really important, and what really didn't matter. I'll break it down a bit (without mentioning UIC - they have a great school as well and I have lots of friends there, but I won't talk about schools that I didn't go to).

Preclinical: One of the things Rush does really well is walk you through each step of the way, beginning with the transition to med school. You have no idea how much you would appreciate this until you need it. I have never felt that I was in too far over my head, that I wasn't going to get through med school, that I would fail my boards, etc. They do a great job of letting you know that they are there if you need them at all times. In my first year, I had an issue with sub-par performance in a class and went to the dean's office to schedule an appointment (this was late in the evening, about 7pm). The office was closed and locked, but he saw me at the door and caught me as I was walking away. Apparently, he was about to go home himself, but he opened the office for me, took off his coat, sat down with me, and talked for twenty minutes until we came up with a solution. He even emailed me a few weeks later to see how I was doing. Little things like this pop up all the time, and it's amazing how it changes your attitude over the long haul. Med school is definitely hard enough, my opinion is that anything that makes it easier will allow me to either perform better or relax more. One of the other nice things they have in the first two years is a "tutoring" service that amounts to a second or third year student who meets with small groups of 4-6 and goes through all of the important testable information once a week. Everyone does it, it's paid for by the school, and it really helps (especially for the anatomy practical). As far as the education goes, all of the classes are solid, no deficiencies anywhere. This is really what you are looking for in a preclinical curriculum, and at this stage the content is the content.

Boards: In my class, I believe we had 3/126 fail step I (97.6% pass rate) and our average was 221 or 222 (national average is 217). Financial aid will give you however much extra loan money you need to buy books for boards or take Kaplan. By the way, I would heavily question any claim of a school having an average step I score in the 230s. A board score of 230 is equivalent to 70th percentile, and 240 is 85th percentile. Try as a school might, it would be extremely difficult to get an entire class to all score in the range of 220-250. The reality is that med students are pretty homogenous as a class wherever you go. A few rock stars, a few stragglers, and a lot of people in between (i.e. average).

Clinical: Most people don't realize it until third year, but this is really where you should be critically evaluating a school, not based on their anatomy classes or their boards pass rates. This is what matters the most. We have two main sites, Cook County and Rush. You can do as many or as few rotations at each site as you want. The only exception is for your medicine rotation, where you must do one month at each site. I did all of my rotations at county with the exception of psychiatry (by choice, easier hours). I could just as easily have done them all at Rush. In addition, we have Rush North Shore for surgery and medicine sub-internship, 6-8 different sites for family practice, and west suburban for OB. The best advice I can give is this: what you need to get out of your clinical years is the ability to see patients in three different settings. Tertiary care (this would be Rush), urban/innner city (Cook County), and suburban (Rush North Shore, West Sub, and all of the Family Practice sites). Any school that does not offer some combination of these is, in my opinion, deficient. Rush has their own set of sites, UIC has another - pretty much every school offers some variation of this. I absolutely loved cook county, you see crap there you won't see anywhere else in the city (third stage syphilis, people with feet falling off from 20+ years of undiagnosed diabetes, spinal TB, etc). Rush is great both for bread and butter cases and oddball things that have been fully worked up elsewhere but no one knows what do with. I should also mention that the clinical years are another area where the administration shines. There have been multiple times where I needed really solid advice and help planning rotations, and the administration really came through each and every time with no more than a single days wait. The few times that I've actually had an issue to resolve about a rotation I was on at the moment, I've had complete support by the administration. I could talk about the clinical experience for a long time, I'll stop in the interest of space.

Tuition: Yep, it's expensive. The difference ends up being about $30K-$40K over all four years. The nice thing at Rush is that a significant number of students get grants and scholarships. I am a complete outlier, but I got somewhere around $50,000 in total (THIS IS ABNORMAL - MOST PEOPLE GET MUCH LESS - DON'T GO TELLING YOUR FRIENDS THAT EVERYONE AT RUSH GETS 50 GRAND IN GRANTS). Point is, people usually get something (my assumption is that it's more like $5K-$10K over four years). The only thing I can tell you about money is that there is no price I can put on comfort and happiness. The extra money in the long run will not break me by any means, and if it means I'll be a happier and more productive person during the most hectic time of my life, so be it. It always amazes me that people will go and buy a house for an extra $100K to be in a nicer part of the city, or buy a car for an extra $30K that's a little bit fancier, or spend an extra $10K on a more extravagant vacation, but they're reluctant to make the same investment for comfort in this area of their lives. For me, it's money well spent. I would advise anyone who is choosing a school based on tuition to seriously consider whether they have looked at the most important aspects of their decision - the biggest differences between any two schools rarely come down to money.

Big fields at Rush: Off the top of my head, we are best known for our residencies in Med/Psych, Orthopedic Surgery, ENT, and General Surgery. Medicine is a pretty popular (and very large) residency here, and their big selling point to residency applicants is that they place something like 85% of residency graduates into fellowships. The more well regarded fellowships here are geriatrics and nephrology. And for gods sake, no one should care about the US News rankings. Once you start med school, you'll never hear about them again in your life.

People: This is hands down one of the top reasons I should have wanted to come here, but didn't know at the time. I have had a blast with the people here. Lots of fun, laid back people with very diverse interests, always a party to go to, always something going on. From small groups going out to bars, to nearly the entire class drinking with the anatomy faculty at a TGIF party (held about 6-8 times a year at Rush, catered with kegs and wine, and the clinical faculty on call often bartends), there is always something to keep you occupied. It's funny, when I meet Rush grads during residency interviews, they always say something to the extent of "People in this residency are super cool, fun, laid back. It's just like Rush, you'll feel very at home here." Think about the type of people you need to surround yourself with to perform your best and decide which program has these people. This is my best sage wisdom, and it's the number one thing I'm looking at now as I choose a residency.

Research: This is another myth I see perpetuated year after year. I'm not sure why UIC gets associated with lots of research and Rush with difficulty getting research. I've been involved with one major and one minor research project (major during my second year, minor during my third year), and just submitted a case report to a journal where I am first author. There is no end to the research you can participate in. Admittedly, if you are looking for basic bench research, you might have a harder time. Clinical research is absolutely no problem though, and lots of people participate.

Residency prospects: I'm going into ER, and I've had absolutely no problems on the interview trail. Every program outside of Chicago was very familiar with Rush, and most had a grad or two in their residency. Chicago programs were also obviously very familiar with Rush, and everyone commented favorably on their experience with Rush grads. Seriously, though, very few people will get a residency based on where they come from. It plays a very small part, and it's much more about who you know and how active you are in your field during med school. Also, it's probably important to note that while we are a very primary care oriented school, we have a lot of specialty placement as well. Last years class (and it's looking like this year as well) had appx 50-60% go into IM, FM, or Peds; about 20-25% go into surgery or surgical subspecialties (mutiple ortho, 1 or 2 urology, 1-2 neurosurg, etc); and the rest into miscellaneous specialties (7-8 ER, sporadic PM&R, multiple anesthesiology, multiple radiology, etc). I do have a match list from last year somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

I'm sure that even though I've answered some questions, there may be others that I didn't get to. Please feel free to ask away either in this thread or by PM.

rxfudd said:

Just wanted to set the record straight on a few things (and get away from studying for boards for a while). I'm a fourth year at Rush with only 8 weeks left of medical school. I was also choosing between UIC and Rush, Even though I ultimately ended up at the perfect school for me, I recognize now that I did not know exactly what I should have been looking for while I was applying, what was really important, and what really didn't matter. I'll break it down a bit (without mentioning UIC - they have a great school as well and I have lots of friends there, but I won't talk about schools that I didn't go to).

Preclinical: One of the things Rush does really well is walk you through each step of the way, beginning with the transition to med school. You have no idea how much you would appreciate this until you need it. I have never felt that I was in too far over my head, that I wasn't going to get through med school, that I would fail my boards, etc. They do a great job of letting you know that they are there if you need them at all times. In my first year, I had an issue with sub-par performance in a class and went to the dean's office to schedule an appointment (this was late in the evening, about 7pm). The office was closed and locked, but he saw me at the door and caught me as I was walking away. Apparently, he was about to go home himself, but he opened the office for me, took off his coat, sat down with me, and talked for twenty minutes until we came up with a solution. He even emailed me a few weeks later to see how I was doing. Little things like this pop up all the time, and it's amazing how it changes your attitude over the long haul. Med school is definitely hard enough, my opinion is that anything that makes it easier will allow me to either perform better or relax more. One of the other nice things they have in the first two years is a "tutoring" service that amounts to a second or third year student who meets with small groups of 4-6 and goes through all of the important testable information once a week. Everyone does it, it's paid for by the school, and it really helps (especially for the anatomy practical). As far as the education goes, all of the classes are solid, no deficiencies anywhere. This is really what you are looking for in a preclinical curriculum, and at this stage the content is the content.

Boards: In my class, I believe we had 3/126 fail step I (97.6% pass rate) and our average was 221 or 222 (national average is 217). Financial aid will give you however much extra loan money you need to buy books for boards or take Kaplan. By the way, I would heavily question any claim of a school having an average step I score in the 230s. A board score of 230 is equivalent to 70th percentile, and 240 is 85th percentile. Try as a school might, it would be extremely difficult to get an entire class to all score in the range of 220-250. The reality is that med students are pretty homogenous as a class wherever you go. A few rock stars, a few stragglers, and a lot of people in between (i.e. average).

Clinical: Most people don't realize it until third year, but this is really where you should be critically evaluating a school, not based on their anatomy classes or their boards pass rates. This is what matters the most. We have two main sites, Cook County and Rush. You can do as many or as few rotations at each site as you want. The only exception is for your medicine rotation, where you must do one month at each site. I did all of my rotations at county with the exception of psychiatry (by choice, easier hours). I could just as easily have done them all at Rush. In addition, we have Rush North Shore for surgery and medicine sub-internship, 6-8 different sites for family practice, and west suburban for OB. The best advice I can give is this: what you need to get out of your clinical years is the ability to see patients in three different settings. Tertiary care (this would be Rush), urban/innner city (Cook County), and suburban (Rush North Shore, West Sub, and all of the Family Practice sites). Any school that does not offer some combination of these is, in my opinion, deficient. Rush has their own set of sites, UIC has another - pretty much every school offers some variation of this. I absolutely loved cook county, you see crap there you won't see anywhere else in the city (third stage syphilis, people with feet falling off from 20+ years of undiagnosed diabetes, spinal TB, etc). Rush is great both for bread and butter cases and oddball things that have been fully worked up elsewhere but no one knows what do with. I should also mention that the clinical years are another area where the administration shines. There have been multiple times where I needed really solid advice and help planning rotations, and the administration really came through each and every time with no more than a single days wait. The few times that I've actually had an issue to resolve about a rotation I was on at the moment, I've had complete support by the administration. I could talk about the clinical experience for a long time, I'll stop in the interest of space.

Tuition: Yep, it's expensive. The difference ends up being about $30,000 over all four years. The nice thing at Rush is that a significant number of students get grants and scholarships. I am a complete outlier, but I got somewhere around $50,000 in total (THIS IS ABNORMAL - MOST PEOPLE GET MUCH LESS - DON'T GO TELLING YOUR FRIENDS THAT EVERYONE AT RUSH GETS 50 GRAND IN GRANTS). Point is, people usually get something (my assumption is that it's more like $5-10K over four years). The only thing I can tell you about money is that there is no price I can put on comfort and happiness. The extra money in the long run will not break me by any means, and if it means I'll be a happier and more productive person during the most hectic time of my life, so be it. It always amazes me that people will go and buy a house for an extra 100K to be in a nicer part of the city, or buy a car for an extra 30K that's a little bit fancier, or spend an extra 10K on a more extravagant vacation, but they're reluctant to make the same investment for comfort in this area of their lives. For me, it's money well spent. I would advise anyone who is choosing a school based on tuition to seriously consider whether they have looked at the most important aspects of their decision - the biggest differences between any two schools rarely come down to money.

Big fields at Rush: Off the top of my head, we are best known for our residencies in Med/Psych, Orthopedic Surgery, ENT, and General Surgery. Medicine is a pretty popular (and very large) residency here, and their big selling point to residency applicants is that they place something like 85% of residency graduates into fellowships. The more well regarded fellowships here are geriatrics and nephrology. And for gods sake, no one should care about the US News rankings. Once you start med school, you'll never hear about them again in your life.

People: This is hands down one of the top reasons I should have wanted to come here, but didn't know at the time. I have had a blast with the people here. Lots of fun, laid back people with very diverse interests, always a party to go to, always something going on. From small groups going out to bars, to nearly the entire class drinking with the anatomy faculty at a TGIF party (held about 6-8 times a year at Rush, catered with kegs and wine, and the clinical faculty on call often bartends), there is always something to keep you occupied. It's funny, when I meet Rush grads during residency interviews, they always say something to the extent of "People in this residency are super cool, fun, laid back. It's just like Rush, you'll feel very at home here." Think about the type of people you need to surround yourself with to perform your best and decide which program has these people. This is my best sage wisdom, and it's the number one thing I'm looking at now as I choose a residency.

Research: This is another myth I see perpetuated year after year. I'm not sure why UIC gets associated with lots of research and Rush with difficulty getting research. I've been involved with one major and one minor research project (major during my second year, minor during my third year), and just submitted a case report to a journal where I am first author. There is no end to the research you can participate in. Admittedly, if you are looking for basic bench research, you might have a harder time. Clinical research is absolutely no problem though, and lots of people participate.

Residency prospects: I'm going into ER, and I've had absolutely no problems on the interview trail. Every program outside of Chicago was very familiar with Rush, and most had a grad or two in their residency. Chicago programs were also obviously very familiar with Rush, and everyone commented favorably on their experience with Rush grads. Seriously, though, very few people will get a residency based on where they come from. It plays a very small part, and it's much more about who you know and how active you are in your field during med school. Also, it's probably important to note that while we are a very primary care oriented school, we have a lot of specialty placement as well. Last years class (and it's looking like this year as well) had appx 50-60% go into IM, FM, or Peds; about 20-25% go into surgery or surgical subspecialties (mutiple ortho, 1 or 2 urology, 1-2 neurosurg, etc); and the rest into miscellaneous specialties (7-8 ER, sporadic PM&R, multiple anesthesiology, multiple radiology, etc). I do have a match list from last year somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

I'm sure that even though I've answered some questions, there may be others that I didn't get to. Please feel free to ask away either in this thread or by PM.

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Great post! Thanks much.

Thanks for the great post. I have my int. in about a week, and I'm very excited. I'm an out of stater from New Orleans, and I know there aren't many of us there, but Rush is def. in my top 2 choices provided I get in. Thanks again for the post its really helpful to hear from someone who is already there.

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I'm in the same boat, so if anyone else has any more input it would be greatly appreciated.

Whootman said:

I'm in the same boat, so if anyone else has any more input it would be greatly appreciated.

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As a UIC student I agree with the previous detailed post on Rush. There are many research opportunities there. I found it rather ironic that as a UIC student the first research job I was offered was not from UIC but from Rush.

Clinical is pretty much the same. We use Cook County, Veterans and UIH as our main hospital sites. Rush and UIC are literally on top of each other and all of the hospitals mentioned (including Rush) are about a block apart.

People tend to be a little nicer and A LOT more diverse at Rush. Most people at UIC tend to have been born and raised in Illinois.

UIC is much cheaper though if you are in-state. If you are able to get into a lab as a research assistant, you get a 25% tuition reduction and a meager salary to go along with it.

CTG said:

I never thought I'd start one of these threads. Ultimately it's my decision, but I wanna hear what everyone has to say. Okay, go!

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I am bringing life to this thread despite it being from last year. I think it has quite a bit of pertinent information that is still relevant.

Re-bump.