Poll: NYU vs. Hopkins

anothergrub said:

I'm struggling:

NYU: live at home, NYC, pass/fail, hands-on at Bellevue, favorite extracurricular activity available (fencing)

vs.

Hopkins: Baltimore, grades, research-oriented, REPUTATION


(I don't know what I want to specialize in, so that doesn't help either)

Suggestions?

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beetlerum said:

I will not tell you what you should do, but keep in mind that SND has an anti-prestige bias in the sense that most people will tell you not to use reputation as a factor. Whether this advice is good or bad really depends on what your specific career goals are.

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volans said:

👍

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anothergrub said:

I'm struggling:

NYU: live at home, NYC, pass/fail, hands-on at Bellevue, favorite extracurricular activity available (fencing)

vs.

Hopkins: Baltimore, grades, research-oriented, REPUTATION


(I don't know what I want to specialize in, so that doesn't help either)

Suggestions?

Click to expand...

NunoBR said:

Come to NYU with us. It'll be awesome.

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JSK44 said:

NYU! NYU! NYU! 👍 😛

(... I'm sorry, I had to do it!!)

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Nutmeg1621 said:

I live in Maryland and you can get a train ticket that doesn't cost much money to NY. I know people who go to NY one weekend a month. It is about 3 hours and 80 dollars. So you will definately have opportunities to go back home. Also senior year I believe they give you three months off. There is also a Baltimore Fencing Center. They have a website if you are interested. Good luck! And know that you can't make a wrong choice!

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NYMed said:

I'd go to Hopkins if I were you. I loved NYU, and I think NY is great, but in the end, I think you'll get much further coming from Hopkins than NYU. SDNers may look down on this, but I do think reputation matters.

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slackerjock99 said:

Depends. Academic careers rely on reputation of training. If you are not part of that .1% who choose academia, why does reputation matter?

From my personal experience, doctors with medical training in India still make a good living practicing medicine. I would say that the salary of a FMG compared to a Hopkins grad is negligible.

Think about the lifestyle dude. no brainer = NYU. no grades vs grades? NYC vs maryland? Yes, Hopkins match list is amazing, NYU isnt shabby.

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Nexus777 said:

I completely agree. Reputation will not matter, even for getting whatever residency you want. Remember, people from all schools get residencies, even in competitive fields. People will tell you that you will get a better residency from Hopkins, but what is Better??? Does "better" mean a better name residency? The only thing true about a school and residency is what is known as "home school advantage"? What does that mean? Let me clarify...

When you go to a med school, you have an abnormally high chance of staying at that med school, for two reasons. #1) They like you - you got to know them 3rd and 4th year and they know what you can do. #2.) You like them - something that people don't get. You have been living in a place for 4 years, you are comfortable there, you realize that you can do whatever you want there, and you have probably created a life in the area that you don't want to move away from, so you stay. As a result, in the Residency Match process (called MATCH for a reason - your choices are equally weighed against the hospitals' choices), most people stay at their medical school's hospitals. Outside of the home school advantage, there is minimal gain from going to a higher rep school - regardless of rep, most lower-rep schools place about the same amount of people in other schools as higher-rep schools. Which means, even if you think you'll move in 4 years, ask yourself, if you didn't move and instead were to remain living in an area for 8-10 years, where would you pick - the answer to me is obvious (NYU).

Also, to be a good doctor, you should consider what kind of environment will make YOU a good doctor. Do you want an ultacompetitive academic environment where the professors are more focused on disease processes than helping the patient, or a curriculum that is more focused on helping the patient than knowing the nitty-gritty disease process (schools can't even do both, cause there is a lack of time issue there - do you focus your time as a school to learn the processes in depth, or learn about how it appears clinically to depth. Don't think that better rep schools do it any better - in fact, at Harvard from what I hear, their New Pathway curriculum teaches to the latter method whereas their HST curriculum teaches the former, and long term studies have shown that PBL-vs.Lecture have no sigificant differences in them in making a better doctor. Therefore, it is up to you. See which kind of student body you relate to more, as you will probably do better among similar personality types since you are happier. You are in your 20s or 30s now - pick a school that makes you happy during these precious years. Seriously think if you are REALLY going to have an academic life in the future, where you are devoting much of your time to trying to write papers, obtain grants, do experiments, .... AND then practice on the side. That leaves very, very little time for yourself and your family, if you are considering one. You are only getting older - start making decisions that are life beneficial, not just CV beneficial.

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choker said:

I make it a rule never to return to this forum, but I have been procrasturbating quite a bit recently and can not read these painfully inaccurate posts any more and not comment. As a fourth year medical student who has seen the residency process first hand, I can honestly say that where you go to med school is probably the single most important factor in screening applicants for residency. Reputation means 90%. Schools may teach the same thing and your quality of training may be identical, but it's more than coincidency that almost all people from the very top schools end up at the very very most covetted residency spots. Almost all at hopkins matched at the most top places in the country_ and NOT all there were in the very top of the same class. This compares with a more unknown school where only a few end up at the most coveted places. I am not saying that a dude from a lesser known med school can't get into plastics, I'm just saying that he would have to be the number 1 guy in the class and likely lose out to the dude from the middle of the pack at Penn or whatever. i have been through this process, all you talk about in your interviews is "how's so and so... I trained with him." More prestigious schools typically are that way because they're associated with better teaching hospitals, meaning that their attendings probably trained with the attendings at other elite teaching hospitals. The quality of your recs and your accomplishments are only interpreted in the context of

Now NYU has arguably the strongest match list of any school in the 20-40 USNEWS rank range, so the point is not as pertinent. But it really pisses me off when people who really don't know what they're talking about try to make all knowing comments on this board. if you want a real opinion, ask someone in the allopathic or residency thread_ don't ask people who know (or in this case_ don't know) as much as you for advice. After 4 years of med school and a million friends in a million other schools I can conclude this:

1) all curriculae have plusses and minuses. dont choose based on pbl/lecture based as they all work and suck at the same time. the job is to just cram as much in you as possible in 2 years. 3rd/4th year is pretty much identical in all schools.

2) dont choose a school based on "what I felt like on my interview day." Jiving with a school is a temporal thing. you can feel comfortable or uncomfortable anywhere, depending on what you ate that day, the last time you got laid, what the weather was like.

3) the only things that you should consider are a) what city you would like to live in for 4 years or more, and b) reputation of the school.

school reputation means everything. anyone who tells you otherwise has not been through the match process and does not know what he/she is talking about.

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choker said:

I make it a rule never to return to this forum, but I have been procrasturbating quite a bit recently and can not read these painfully inaccurate posts any more and not comment. As a fourth year medical student who has seen the residency process first hand, I can honestly say that where you go to med school is probably the single most important factor in screening applicants for residency. Reputation means 90%. Schools may teach the same thing and your quality of training may be identical, but it's more than coincidency that almost all people from the very top schools end up at the very very most covetted residency spots. Almost all at hopkins matched at the most top places in the country_ and NOT all there were in the very top of the same class. This compares with a more unknown school where only a few end up at the most coveted places. I am not saying that a dude from a lesser known med school can't get into plastics, I'm just saying that he would have to be the number 1 guy in the class and likely lose out to the dude from the middle of the pack at Penn or whatever. i have been through this process, all you talk about in your interviews is "how's so and so... I trained with him." More prestigious schools typically are that way because they're associated with better teaching hospitals, meaning that their attendings probably trained with the attendings at other elite teaching hospitals. The quality of your recs and your accomplishments are only interpreted in the context of

Now NYU has arguably the strongest match list of any school in the 20-40 USNEWS rank range, so the point is not as pertinent. But it really pisses me off when people who really don't know what they're talking about try to make all knowing comments on this board. if you want a real opinion, ask someone in the allopathic or residency thread_ don't ask people who know (or in this case_ don't know) as much as you for advice. After 4 years of med school and a million friends in a million other schools I can conclude this:

1) all curriculae have plusses and minuses. dont choose based on pbl/lecture based as they all work and suck at the same time. the job is to just cram as much in you as possible in 2 years. 3rd/4th year is pretty much identical in all schools.

2) dont choose a school based on "what I felt like on my interview day." Jiving with a school is a temporal thing. you can feel comfortable or uncomfortable anywhere, depending on what you ate that day, the last time you got laid, what the weather was like.

3) the only things that you should consider are a) what city you would like to live in for 4 years or more, and b) reputation of the school.

school reputation means everything. anyone who tells you otherwise has not been through the match process and does not know what he/she is talking about.

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choker said:

True, but you should not decide whether or not you want to go into private practice at this stage. most residents dont decide on private practice vs. academics till chief year anyway. you dont want to restrict your opportunities at this stage just because "i really really liked my interviewer at... and so and so school gave me a really warm feeling."

besides, private practice can be brutally competitive as well, especially if god forbid you have any geographical preference and would like to make more than the average physician, again_ the only thing that matters at that stage as well is the reputation of your program. same with fellowships and_ in many fields_ fellowships are becoming the norm, even for private practice. don't blow off reputation.

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Centinel said:

Choker,

What are your thoughts on debt at this stage in the game? How much more is a top 5 worth over 4 years than, say, a school around #20? $20,000? $50,000? Unquantifiable?

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pekq said:

Interesting, another thing i want to point out is that residency directors don't look at the prestige of a school based on what US News thinks but rather on their past experience with students from that school. They may also favor students from their alma mater and guess which schools have the most alumni serving as faculties at med schools around the country? (Har...)

I think a better evaluation of a school's reputation comes from residency director's eval of a school and the hospital rankings.

That said, your research, clinical grades, networking is far more important than your school's prestige. Of course, if you aim for Mass Gen's derm program then you better be from Harvard cause everyone called for interviews will be perfect and only the chance to network in 3rd and 4th year will help you win.

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pekq said:

Interesting, another thing i want to point out is that residency directors don't look at the prestige of a school based on what US News thinks but rather on their past experience with students from that school. They may also favor students from their alma mater and guess which schools have the most alumni serving as faculties at med schools around the country? (Har...)

I think a better evaluation of a school's reputation comes from residency director's eval of a school and the hospital rankings.

That said, your research, clinical grades, networking is far more important than your school's prestige. Of course, if you aim for Mass Gen's derm program then you better be from Harvard cause everyone called for interviews will be perfect and only the chance to network in 3rd and 4th year will help you win.

Click to expand...

I make it a rule never to return to this forum, but I have been procrasturbating quite a bit recently and can not read these painfully inaccurate posts any more and not comment. As a fourth year medical student who has seen the residency process first hand, I can honestly say that where you go to med school is probably the single most important factor in screening applicants for residency. Reputation means 90%. Schools may teach the same thing and your quality of training may be identical, but it's more than coincidency that almost all people from the very top schools end up at the very very most covetted residency spots. Almost all at hopkins matched at the most top places in the country_ and NOT all there were in the very top of the same class. This compares with a more unknown school where only a few end up at the most coveted places. I am not saying that a dude from a lesser known med school can't get into plastics, I'm just saying that he would have to be the number 1 guy in the class and likely lose out to the dude from the middle of the pack at Penn or whatever. i have been through this process, all you talk about in your interviews is "how's so and so... I trained with him." More prestigious schools typically are that way because they're associated with better teaching hospitals, meaning that their attendings probably trained with the attendings at other elite teaching hospitals. The quality of your recs and your accomplishments are only interpreted in the context of how well known your letter writers are and where you went to med school/trained. in this sense, it can be argued that the hosp dept of the specialty you want to pursue at the med school is more important than the school itself, but that can be debated.

Now NYU has arguably the strongest match list of any school in the 20-40 USNEWS rank range, so the point is not as pertinent. But it really pisses me off when people who really don't know what they're talking about try to make all knowing comments on this board. if you want a real opinion, ask someone in the allopathic or residency thread_ don't ask people who know (or in this case_ don't know) as much as you for advice. After 4 years of med school and a million friends in a million other schools I can conclude this:

1) all curriculae have plusses and minuses. dont choose based on pbl/lecture based as they all work and suck at the same time. the job is to just cram as much in you as possible in 2 years. 3rd/4th year is pretty much identical in all schools.

2) dont choose a school based on "what I felt like on my interview day." Jiving with a school is a temporal thing. you can feel comfortable or uncomfortable anywhere, depending on what you ate that day, the last time you got laid, what the weather was like.

3) the only things that you should consider are a) what city you would like to live in for 4 years or more, and b) reputation of the school.

school reputation means everything. anyone who tells you otherwise has not been through the match process and does not know what he/she is talking about.

Click to expand...

choker said:

I make it a rule never to return to this forum, but I have been procrasturbating quite a bit recently and can not read these painfully inaccurate posts any more and not comment. As a fourth year medical student who has seen the residency process first hand, I can honestly say that where you go to med school is probably the single most important factor in screening applicants for residency. Reputation means 90%. Schools may teach the same thing and your quality of training may be identical, but it's more than coincidency that almost all people from the very top schools end up at the very very most covetted residency spots. Almost all at hopkins matched at the most top places in the country_ and NOT all there were in the very top of the same class. This compares with a more unknown school where only a few end up at the most coveted places. I am not saying that a dude from a lesser known med school can't get into plastics, I'm just saying that he would have to be the number 1 guy in the class and likely lose out to the dude from the middle of the pack at Penn or whatever. i have been through this process, all you talk about in your interviews is "how's so and so... I trained with him." More prestigious schools typically are that way because they're associated with better teaching hospitals, meaning that their attendings probably trained with the attendings at other elite teaching hospitals. The quality of your recs and your accomplishments are only interpreted in the context of how well known your letter writers are and where you went to med school/trained. in this sense, it can be argued that the hosp dept of the specialty you want to pursue at the med school is more important than the school itself, but that can be debated.

Now NYU has arguably the strongest match list of any school in the 20-40 USNEWS rank range, so the point is not as pertinent. But it really pisses me off when people who really don't know what they're talking about try to make all knowing comments on this board. if you want a real opinion, ask someone in the allopathic or residency thread_ don't ask people who know (or in this case_ don't know) as much as you for advice. After 4 years of med school and a million friends in a million other schools I can conclude this:

1) all curriculae have plusses and minuses. dont choose based on pbl/lecture based as they all work and suck at the same time. the job is to just cram as much in you as possible in 2 years. 3rd/4th year is pretty much identical in all schools.

2) dont choose a school based on "what I felt like on my interview day." Jiving with a school is a temporal thing. you can feel comfortable or uncomfortable anywhere, depending on what you ate that day, the last time you got laid, what the weather was like.

3) the only things that you should consider are a) what city you would like to live in for 4 years or more, and b) reputation of the school.

school reputation means everything. anyone who tells you otherwise has not been through the match process and does not know what he/she is talking about.

Click to expand...