So, this whole "research" thing...

drfunktacular · Sep 28, 2007

I am an MS3, and ENT is one of the two things I'm trying to decide between for residency. I'm a competitive applicant as far as step 1, grades, etc etc goes, with one glaring exception: no research (at all, ever). I don't really even know what research involves as a medical student.

To be honest, I just don't want to do it, not now, not never; that said, I realize that research is something that is a necessity for an aspiring ENT. In the words of one of the ENT faculty at my school, "just tell the bastards what they want to hear".

So what should I do? I feel unqualified to do any research activities, given that I have a third-year medical student's level of knowledge (i.e., laughable, despite how big some MS3/MS4s' heads get). I can be a lab-monkey/scut-monkey with the best of them if necessary, but if I am going to do that, I want to maximize the return. So should I just ask an active researcher in the department how I can get involved and then just take whatever scraps they throw me? Or ask if they have any case reports that need to be written (if nothing else, I am a decent writer)? Or... what?

Thanks!

chicoborja · Sep 28, 2007

Would a systematic review or meta-analysis meet your research requirement? It's not original research but it is publishable and definitely better than a case study.

Catalyst · Sep 28, 2007

some decent advice on this subject in this thread...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=447583

resxn · Sep 29, 2007

You're right, to get into ENT you've got to do research these days.

Here's what looks good on the old CV, do what you want, but do something:

1 - First Author Prospective, Double-Blind, Placebo Controlled Trial
1.5 - First Author on Original Lab Research Paper
2 - 2-3rd author on any of the above
3 - Meta-Analysis
4 - Review Article
5 - Chart Review/Retrospective study
6 - Case Report
7 - Case Report last author
8 - Any paper where you're an acknowledgement at the end

The general order is there but is in tiers: the first 2 are essentially interchangeable and clearly better than the rest, 2-5 are swappable among themselves as the 2nd tier, and 6-8 are the trash ones.

Something's always better than nothing so I would do it. I think your attending hit the nail on the head.

drfunktacular · Sep 30, 2007

OK, follow-up query:

I didn't mention originally that the other field I'm considering is radiology (and if I did that, I would probably want to look into neuroradiology). As it is, I haven't done a rotation in either, but I will do electives in both later this year (first rads, then ENT).

So... can anyone comment on the risk/benefit of trying to do some neuroradiology work? That will be the first elective I have and our rads department is (apparently) pretty easygoing when it comes to getting students involved in research. Clearly, it's not ENT research per se, but of course the diseases and anatomy can overlap somewhat. And as it is, I am really torn between the two, so I'd hate to do something that would significantly limit either.

Thanks again!

resxn · Sep 30, 2007

For ENT applications, ENT research is better, but as has been said, something is better than nothing.

And I would think that a good neurorad research project is better than a good ob/gyn project if you do end up applying to ENT. I would just make sure you try to get on a good one whatever field it's in.

TheThroat · Oct 20, 2007

I did no research at all until May of my 4th year, then took 10 weeks to help on a bench project from which no paper was published. I got a good LOR from my mentor on the project. I then talked about this project during every interview when asked about my research experience.

So, in summary, you don't have to love research to do research. You DO have to do research to have a good chance of getting into residency. You WILL be asked about research during interviews, and you will need a better answer than "I don't want to do research".

One more thing: the term "research" can scare undergrads, even med students. Think of research as trying to answer unanswered questions. I wasn't too keen on research while in med school, but during residency, tons of questions came up. What's the best treatment for T2 glottic carcinoma? What is the best way to treatment post-tonsillectomy pain? There are tons of unanswered questions and when you answer one question, others pop up. Trying to answer these questions is research.

BoogieGnome · Jan 16, 2008

resxn said:
You're right, to get into ENT you've got to do research these days.

Here's what looks good on the old CV, do what you want, but do something:

1 - First Author Prospective, Double-Blind, Placebo Controlled Trial
1.5 - First Author on Original Lab Research Paper
2 - 2-3rd author on any of the above
3 - Meta-Analysis
4 - Review Article
5 - Chart Review/Retrospective study
6 - Case Report
7 - Case Report last author
8 - Any paper where you're an acknowledgement at the end

The general order is there but is in tiers: the first 2 are essentially interchangeable and clearly better than the rest, 2-5 are swappable among themselves as the 2nd tier, and 6-8 are the trash ones.

Something's always better than nothing so I would do it. I think your attending hit the nail on the head.

Just curious, where would you put doing an oral presentation on that list? I'll be doing a presentation at the Western Student Medical Research Forum for my MS1-2 summer research project (non-ENT, informatics project). Currently don't have any publications, and don't expect that project to put my name on anything.

Faebinder · Jan 16, 2008

BoogieGnome said:
Just curious, where would you put doing an oral presentation on that list? I'll be doing a presentation at the Western Student Medical Research Forum for my MS1-2 summer research project (non-ENT, informatics project). Currently don't have any publications, and don't expect that project to put my name on anything.

Depends on how big the meeting is and how much it matters to your residency...

Presentation at the American College of Surgeons when applying to surgery is the equivilant of #3 or #4.

Presentation at a less reputable meeting... say Southeastern Surgical Congress.... is more like #5 or #6.

Presentation at a non related meeting such as American Psychiatric Association is like #8. (#7 i disagree with cause Last author is senior author is usually as valid as #6 assuming #6 is any author.)

resxn · Jan 16, 2008

Faebinder said:
Depends on how big the meeting is and how much it matters to your residency...

Presentation at the American College of Surgeons when applying to surgery is the equivilant of #3 or #4.

Presentation at a less reputable meeting... say Southeastern Surgical Congress.... is more like #5 or #6.

Presentation at a non related meeting such as American Psychiatric Association is like #8.

I'd agree that's a reasonable assumption.

re: your comment on #7--although "we" know the last author is often the senior and driving author of a paper, if it's "your" name at the end as a medical student (no credentials at the end of your name), we know that is not the same thing--it means you're an afterthought, a shout-out, a hey-this-guy-was-there-part-of-the-time-too sort of thing.

So, this whole "research" thing...

drfunktacular

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