Pros and Cons of your DO School
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ATSU-KCOM
Curriculum: Im two years removed from Kirksville, so this may be a bit dated. Standard systems based curriculum with some PBL type experiences mixed in, especially with the pathology course. OMM during first year was usually 3-4 days per week with an hour or two hours per day, depending on what lab was going on. Strong courses while I was there were OMM, anatomy, phys, biochem, and pharm (they changed the pharm course while we were there to develop a team based learning experience .it was kind of rough but the faculty are really good and I learned a lot.) Courses I would consider weak were mostly limited to Histo, but I dont know if its changed. Other courses were very good also, just not as strong as above. Also, the neurosciences course was very good. Most days consisted of lecture in 8-12, labs or maybe more lecture in the afternoons. Some days you got the afternoons off. Most tests were 7:30 in the morning. Textbooks were rarely needed, never bought one for biochem. Notes are very detailed and noteservice is a very good resource, all lectures are recorded on tape.
Location: Well, what can I say about Kirksville. If youve never been in a small town it may be a culture shock but having also gone to undergrad in Kirksville, its a nice town with plenty of outdoor (i.e. parks) opportunities to get away. 3 hours from St. Louis or Kansas City, 1.5 hours from Columbia, MO. Small town = plenty of time to focus on studies.
Cost: Middle of the road for DO schools, typical private school tuition. It usually goes up every year, but whose doesnt? Id say MO students were in the minority, plenty of good scholarships, just not for MO students in particular.
Faculty: Very good faculty, for the most part. OMM, phys, biochem, anatomy faculty are very good. However, the best anatomy guy I have ever known is leaving to head the department at the new school in the northwest. He headed the anatomy department in Kirksville, the best neuroanatomy teacher you will ever come across. I have never had a better teacher/professor in every course I have ever taken. I dont know about other change. The clinical faculty was good when I was there, but I again dont know if its changed. Perhaps some input from a current OMS I or II?
OMM: Very good faculty, very structured program. It was not my strong suit by any means but they make sure you know your stuff. A very intensive program. I again dont know if theres been any change with the faculty.
Reputation: The original school of osteopathic medicine. Its one of the most respected osteopathic medical schools in the country. Its students are received very well with both allopathic and osteopathic post-graduate training programs. Its constantly ranked very high with regards to primary care medical training, although many students choose other non-primary care specialties with very good success.
Clinical Rotations: Clinical rotations at KCOM is a bit like a pot-luck dinner, lots of options. The base site in Kirksville, MO is Northeast Regional Medical Center. While not the biggest of hospitals, it has a wide referral base as it sits pretty much alone in northeast Missouri. KCOM has a few residencies through the hospital. Kirksville can only support about 10 students from each class for rotations, so the majority of students complete their rotations at other sites across the country. In the winter of second year, KCOM students go through a match to determine where they finish their 3rd and 4th year training. The sites range from a variety of locations throughout Missouri to Arizona, New Jersey, Florida, Iowa, Illinois just to name a few. The school is pretty good about setting up pilot sites for those who want and try to get closer to home for 3rd and 4th year. Some of the rotation sites are small and you dont get the didactic and structured feel like in a larger teaching institution, but you can work one on one with attendings and get a ton of hands on experience. I cant speak for every site and Im sure the experiences differ but you get the chance to research the best option for you before you match. The third year requirements are pretty much set in stone, but there is plenty of opportunity for electives in fourth year.
Housing: There are some apartments located on campus but I strongly advise requesting a reservation as soon as you get accepted as they go quickly. Apartments and houses in Kirksville are extremely cheap but be careful as some landlords in town will take you for a spin in their dump of a dwelling. There are a lot of apartments and duplexes within a short walk of campus.
Study areas: This has changed I am sure as KCOM has just completed a brand new 12.5 million dollar technology center so I am sure there are plenty of good study centers. I also highly advise the library at Truman State University in Kirksville as there are plenty of private desks throughout the library that make for perfect studying.
Social scene: Everyone likes a break now and then. There is a small bar scene in Kirksville to support the undergrad and KCOM community. The number of restaurants is limited but most are pretty good. There is a small rec center for good energy expenditure and there are plenty of good outdoor hiking and biking opportunities. KCOM also puts on a pretty good intramural sports program for all associated with KCOM.
Board Prep: While I was there, your tuition covers a Kaplan review course, complete with review books and an online Q-book. They bring in guest lecturers to review certain major topics like micro and phys. If you like to study like that, its a good resource. I dont know what the pass rate for our school was this past year, but it was pretty good (the ATSU-KCOM website has more specific info)
Misc: KCOM has expanded to incorporate their new IT center with six robotic patient simulators and a new library, OMM lab, small group rooms, etc. The school has been there for a while, but everything is kept up well and most clinicians that teach have their offices right there on campus. Some of these categories might be somewhat vague, but if you are looking for more specific/honest student info, just send a post and Ill be happy to reply or find out some info. Overall grade for KCOM = A-.
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I'm not trying to correct you, obviously, I just want to clarify the heme/onc part. UMDNJ-SOM is my #1, so I've been on the website a lot. I noticed in the GME section under fellowships, it lists oncology. When you click on it, it brings you to the heme/onc page, which says a fellowship in oncology is going to be starting next year. I guess I'm just wondering if it will be strictly oncology, or will it be a mixture of both?
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Pros: small class size, nice campus, best path professor in nation (Goljan), new full gym on campus, no traffic in Tulsa, vast majority of 4th year is electives, great match lists, great board pass rates, USNews ranking, free USMLE/COMLEX review for step I & II
Cons: school in ghetto, no fast food or restaurants near school, osteopathic hospital & its residency programs in limbo, new attendance policy for classes
Cons: school in ghetto, no fast food or restaurants near school, osteopathic hospital & its residency programs in limbo, new attendance policy for classes
Here's a MS2's perspective on AZCOM. There might be a few rough kinks at first with the increased class size, but they listen to you to fix things.
Curriculum: Excellent. Really difficult, but well worth it. Don't need to buy that many books, and many others are in the library on reserve. Both 1st & 2nd year teachers are really good, and most of their notes are really good.
Location: It doesn't get any nicer. The area is really new, safe, the weather is incredible (except the summer...uh..., but its worth it), spring training baseball games in the spring, awesome. Tons of places to eat nearby, plus right by the freeway to get wherever you need to.
Cost: Lame. It raises about $2000 every year to $43,000 now
Faculty: Really helpful, will do anything to help you. Work hard for students to succeed. Really kind too. Everybody is just in a good mood here, maybe it's the sun, I don't know. Seriously everybody is nice.
OMM: Great laid back faculty, yet we've scored the highest in OMM on the boards in the last few years. The OMM lab rocks.
Reputation: Better than ATSU in Mesa, mixed on comparisons with U of A, Some prefer our students, some don't. Can't really say for sure though, haven't rotated yet.
Clinical Rotations: They got rid of early clinical experiences in MS1 & 2 to make sure they had enough rotations for the doubled class size (and to steal them from U of A before they up their class size). That pretty much stinks, but a lot of the professors and students are ticked about it, so it'll probably change in the next couple years. I haven't rotated yet, so can't say much.
Housing: On campus is convenient, nice. The housing market is so bad down here though, you can get a 3 bedroom house, 2.5 bath, for rent for as much as you'd get a 1 bedroom apartment ($995/ month is what we pay for our house rental). The apartments across the street are WAY nice. They might fill up a little bit early too because of the new dental school that's starting this year.
Study areas: Bad, or will be bad because the new dental school kids. There is a public library nearby if ours gets too crowded. They say they're expanding, but I'll probably never see it. I didn't use the library all that much, mostly studied at home.
Social Scene: I'm married, so the only social scene I get is with other student's families. A good 3rd of the class is married, so that might be a downer for some. Hearing stories from everybody else though, they definitely party, maybe too much.
Local Hospitals: Sweet hospitals, you see everything you'd imagine seeing in a large city. People seem to be more idiotic year-round because there's no winter, so its always busy. We have about 2.5 months off in the 1st year summer (probably because it's so flippin hot), and I did work study research at Maricopa Medical Center in the ER, the main trauma center in the valley. Saw some incredible stuff. You see a lot of interesting cases from Mexico too. You've also got freaken Mayo clinic in Scottsdale, and a ton of others scattered throughout the valley. Also a lot of rural stuff that I don't care much for. Again though, only an MS2 here.
Board Prep: They teach for the boards. One of the interesting things about AZCOM is that we've never have had a board review class, yet the way we're taught keeps us in the top of DO schools for boards. Must be doing something right.
Specialties: We don't have a good number of Ped spots, so you basically have to commit to peds before you rotate at Phoenix Children's. We don't have a lot of Ward based rotation spots, but if you want them, they'll help you get them, or you can set them up yourself. We have in system rotations in several other states (Michigan, Utah, Alabama (?), Colorado, Cali) that you can do your entire 3rd & 4th year in if you want. Or you can just do them all in phoenix which is what I'm doing.
Misc. I am SO glad I ended up here. Couldn't have worked out better.
Curriculum: A+
Location: A+
Cost: B-
Financial Aid: A
Faculty: A+
Reputation: A
Technology: A-
Study Space/Library: B-
Library technology/Resources: B+
Rotations: A+
Social: A-
Hospitals: A+
Post Grad: A-
Overall Grade: A
Curriculum: Excellent. Really difficult, but well worth it. Don't need to buy that many books, and many others are in the library on reserve. Both 1st & 2nd year teachers are really good, and most of their notes are really good.
Location: It doesn't get any nicer. The area is really new, safe, the weather is incredible (except the summer...uh..., but its worth it), spring training baseball games in the spring, awesome. Tons of places to eat nearby, plus right by the freeway to get wherever you need to.
Cost: Lame. It raises about $2000 every year to $43,000 now
Faculty: Really helpful, will do anything to help you. Work hard for students to succeed. Really kind too. Everybody is just in a good mood here, maybe it's the sun, I don't know. Seriously everybody is nice.
OMM: Great laid back faculty, yet we've scored the highest in OMM on the boards in the last few years. The OMM lab rocks.
Reputation: Better than ATSU in Mesa, mixed on comparisons with U of A, Some prefer our students, some don't. Can't really say for sure though, haven't rotated yet.
Clinical Rotations: They got rid of early clinical experiences in MS1 & 2 to make sure they had enough rotations for the doubled class size (and to steal them from U of A before they up their class size). That pretty much stinks, but a lot of the professors and students are ticked about it, so it'll probably change in the next couple years. I haven't rotated yet, so can't say much.
Housing: On campus is convenient, nice. The housing market is so bad down here though, you can get a 3 bedroom house, 2.5 bath, for rent for as much as you'd get a 1 bedroom apartment ($995/ month is what we pay for our house rental). The apartments across the street are WAY nice. They might fill up a little bit early too because of the new dental school that's starting this year.
Study areas: Bad, or will be bad because the new dental school kids. There is a public library nearby if ours gets too crowded. They say they're expanding, but I'll probably never see it. I didn't use the library all that much, mostly studied at home.
Social Scene: I'm married, so the only social scene I get is with other student's families. A good 3rd of the class is married, so that might be a downer for some. Hearing stories from everybody else though, they definitely party, maybe too much.
Local Hospitals: Sweet hospitals, you see everything you'd imagine seeing in a large city. People seem to be more idiotic year-round because there's no winter, so its always busy. We have about 2.5 months off in the 1st year summer (probably because it's so flippin hot), and I did work study research at Maricopa Medical Center in the ER, the main trauma center in the valley. Saw some incredible stuff. You see a lot of interesting cases from Mexico too. You've also got freaken Mayo clinic in Scottsdale, and a ton of others scattered throughout the valley. Also a lot of rural stuff that I don't care much for. Again though, only an MS2 here.
Board Prep: They teach for the boards. One of the interesting things about AZCOM is that we've never have had a board review class, yet the way we're taught keeps us in the top of DO schools for boards. Must be doing something right.
Specialties: We don't have a good number of Ped spots, so you basically have to commit to peds before you rotate at Phoenix Children's. We don't have a lot of Ward based rotation spots, but if you want them, they'll help you get them, or you can set them up yourself. We have in system rotations in several other states (Michigan, Utah, Alabama (?), Colorado, Cali) that you can do your entire 3rd & 4th year in if you want. Or you can just do them all in phoenix which is what I'm doing.
Misc. I am SO glad I ended up here. Couldn't have worked out better.
Curriculum: A+
Location: A+
Cost: B-
Financial Aid: A
Faculty: A+
Reputation: A
Technology: A-
Study Space/Library: B-
Library technology/Resources: B+
Rotations: A+
Social: A-
Hospitals: A+
Post Grad: A-
Overall Grade: A
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Dang, AZCOM costs more than NYCOM? 😱
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Thought I'd put in a few cents, though I did graduate in 2004 from COMP, but nonetheless maybe things are still the same. If they're different..someone can comment on it and say whether it's better or worse!
=================
Okay, so enough of the bold type.
I can honestly say the first 2 years were great. I could really feel where my money was going (though expensive, I felt I was supported). I was very active on campus with activities and really felt good about being at the school. And it really did feel like our class was a "family".
But I swear the last 2 years it was as if all of a sudden we were on our own and all that tuition was going to deep pockets. I mean, we didn't get much help with rotations, how the match works, how to register for the match, and always the mantra of "do the D.O. match" only philosphy. With the rising cost of tuition, I always wondered what it was going to in my 3rd and 4th years. I do know that the physicians I worked with weren't getting paid for teaching me anything, though they do get CME credit. And I never could get a straight answer about whether hospitals got paid for taking COMP students. And it was during my time when there was some kind of financial "questions" about Pumerantz and his business dealings which led to the "resignation" of our Dean at the time. This was public knowledge and released as news in the local papers.
I'm sure a lot has changed with the new curriculum changes and 3rd year rotation requirements. Maybe someone can comment if the changes have been good or bad.
In then end, work hard, be good to your patients, and do well on boards. Unless you are committed to DO-only residencies, take the USMLE and open up your options!
And it may sound like I am an MD wannabe, but just in case there are doubts, I applied only to DO schools by choice. Entered an MD residency because it's located where I grew up and could give back to the community. And currently I am in a DO sports med fellowship utilizing a lot of OMT for patients.
Hope this helps.
=================
Okay, so enough of the bold type.
I can honestly say the first 2 years were great. I could really feel where my money was going (though expensive, I felt I was supported). I was very active on campus with activities and really felt good about being at the school. And it really did feel like our class was a "family".
But I swear the last 2 years it was as if all of a sudden we were on our own and all that tuition was going to deep pockets. I mean, we didn't get much help with rotations, how the match works, how to register for the match, and always the mantra of "do the D.O. match" only philosphy. With the rising cost of tuition, I always wondered what it was going to in my 3rd and 4th years. I do know that the physicians I worked with weren't getting paid for teaching me anything, though they do get CME credit. And I never could get a straight answer about whether hospitals got paid for taking COMP students. And it was during my time when there was some kind of financial "questions" about Pumerantz and his business dealings which led to the "resignation" of our Dean at the time. This was public knowledge and released as news in the local papers.
I'm sure a lot has changed with the new curriculum changes and 3rd year rotation requirements. Maybe someone can comment if the changes have been good or bad.
In then end, work hard, be good to your patients, and do well on boards. Unless you are committed to DO-only residencies, take the USMLE and open up your options!
And it may sound like I am an MD wannabe, but just in case there are doubts, I applied only to DO schools by choice. Entered an MD residency because it's located where I grew up and could give back to the community. And currently I am in a DO sports med fellowship utilizing a lot of OMT for patients.
Hope this helps.
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Our neuroanatomy professor is awesome..his lectures are a pleasure to grasp and really makes my life so much easier. He too like yours was scouted out of a cali school to become one of our deans. Anatomy faculty are always going to have a tremendous popularity in med schools...
GA-PCOM anyone?
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I'll post one when I don't have to be up in 5 hours for my rotation. I'l try tomorrow if someone doesn't beat me to it.
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That would be awesome!
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I'm a graduating M4 from NSU. I will say flat out I had a great education there. I was well prepared and ready for my clinical rotations.There were great classmates of mine that have matched into places like Yale, Emory, and the Cleveland Clinic. I matched into EM and am quite ecstatic about it. All medical schools are you get what you put in but I also think I had a good knowledge base and I saw some great pathology.
Curriculum: Solid. Your first two years are going to be like drinking out of a fire hose but so is any medical school. They provide a good base to get ready for your 2nd year medical classes. There is integration of physical examination classes and simulated patient exams throughout your didactic years and these simulated exams made sure the COMLEX 2 PE was a breeze.
Gross Anatomy had 4-5 per cadaver and two teams worked on one body, one on Tuesday and one Thursday. I will let you know I had plenty of time to dissect and if I wanted to come back on my off time. I know a lot of incoming students want to know about that. I thought my 2nd year was actually tougher then my 1st but much more "fun". This is where the rubber meets the road so to speak and its all system based. There are a lot of clinical correlations made though the classes that ends up helping you later. I did visiting rotations at bigger academic programs in my 4th year at places such as UNC, Cook County, USC, and University of Tennessee and I felt I had awesome training compared to my fellow peers.
Location: Two words…..SOUTH FLORIDA! This is Miami….this is the white sandy beaches…this is a busy area! The location has beautiful weather and plenty of time to study your histology by the pool in December. The area also has professional hockey, football, baseball, and basketball for you sports fans. There are so many places to eat and have a great time as well as short trips to Orlando or the Keys for a weekend get away when you need to just get away. Point to note though, it can get kinda expensive. Which leads to….
Cost: Honestly I don't remember what it is now. I have instate tuition and pay around 25K or so. (I was paying 22K when I started) I think out of state pays around 33K or so. I will say a decent apartment can run you around 1100-1300. This is easily worked around sharing with a roommate but again that's a pretty steep compared to other parts of the country. Gas is a little higher as well but this comes with being in a heavily populated area.
Faculty: The teaching faculty is pretty good. We have a great anatomy and histology professors. Our physiology professors are decent and I learned from them but they are more interested in research at times. In second year most of the classes are in systems. Almost every one of the lecturers was pretty good. Now of course every now and then there was a snoozer but hey….that's life. There is a Dr. Hasty that is a professor in Internal Medicine that will do anything for the students. He teaches a lot but also takes the time to make sure the students are doing well. Again, didactic wise I had a great education.
Administration: I will be honest. I think our administration could use some work. You'll see the Dean a bit through the first 2 years but honestly I haven't heard much from him since I started my 3rd year. I figure the next time I will hear from them is graduation. I also thought at times the clinical education department was difficult to work with but in the end it all worked out for me. As I said they could use some work and some communication but it had nothing to do with my quality of my education.
OMM: We have some great faculty here including Dr. Wallace and some others for OPP. This class takes its time and makes sure you know slowly how to do things the right way. HVLA is not taught until 2nd year. I am not a OMM kinda guy but I liked the classes in lab ….even cranial…..because I could sleep.
Reputation: Most of the time when people ask where I go to school they go ummmm ok. I do though get through some of my rotations people who know the candidates that come out of NSU and are quite happy. We place candidates throughout the country in a lot of specialties. I think my class had a lot of great placements as well. For the most part I think we put some damn great physicians.
I will say that NSU now is one of the older DO schools. This means there are more alumni and people that are familiar with the program. There are a lot of new programs out there now and I was happy I was at a place that had previous students that are in all sorts of programs though out the country. This in my opinion is a big plus.
Clinical Rotations: There are multiple rotation sites for NSU students. There are a lot of students so they run a lotto for placements throughout Florida for your core 3rd year rotations. Most students get their first choice. The most popular rotations are Broward General, Memorial Hospital, Mt. Sinai, Florida Hospital in Orlando, and Suncoast in Tampa. I was at Broward General which is a large level 1 trauma center in downtown Ft. Lauderdale. I though my rotations were absolutely awesome. One of the reasons I came to NSU was the pathology. There is a great mix of poor, homeless, tropical medicine, and south Florida has a HUGE HIV population. I saw so many funky and weird diseases during my time there. There were residency programs also at the hospital so I had a cushion for learning. There was also a lot of one on one time there so I got a to do a lot of procedures in 3rd year like central lines, chest tubes, IV, abscess drainage, suturing, delivering babies, and being 1st assist on a lot of surgical cases. I know you get a lot of these at other hospitals but I think there I had a great learning opportunity here.
You do have to do rural/underserved rotations in your 4th year. Two they assign to you and one you can do on your own. I choose EM at Cook County in Chicago cause its amazingly underserved. Others choose to do international rotations in Africa or India. They pay a stipend and provide housing for those on your rurals.
Housing: Again, can get expensive. I would say get a place near school and walk to class if you can. If you want a nicer place with a 15-20 drive I suggest Plantation which has some great apartments and you get a little more for the same price.
Study areas: Great in my opinion. There is a HPD library which is decent but tends to get quite busy since there are so many programs at the school. There are a lot of private study rooms and if you don't want to be at the HPD there is a MASSIVE library on campus that is really clean and modern. I had NO problems finding a place to study….just the motivation.
Social Scene: Its South Beach. Nuff said. There is always something to go do or see here. Sports, beach, drinking, cruises…..Miami has it all if you have the money.
Board Prep: They pay for Kaplan and you get all the books as well. There is a complete review course but I spent the time just reading the books they gave me as well as some I bought myself. I had like 6 weeks or so off for studying. I thought it was fine.
Happiness of Student Body: I added this here because I didn't see it earlier. For the most part we are content. We are not the cheery happiest medical student body out there but I think we are great clinicians. Don't get me wrong we have a lot of fun and there are a LOT of good times to be had in the Miami area. I think that as you progress there are a lot of stressors that add to the mix. Tough classes then boards….then setting up electives…then the match. All while still studying and working hard to be a great physician. Not specific to NSU but I think that student body is something that you need to look at while your out there.
OK its late and I'm tired, please let me know if you have any other questions.
Curriculum: Solid. Your first two years are going to be like drinking out of a fire hose but so is any medical school. They provide a good base to get ready for your 2nd year medical classes. There is integration of physical examination classes and simulated patient exams throughout your didactic years and these simulated exams made sure the COMLEX 2 PE was a breeze.
Gross Anatomy had 4-5 per cadaver and two teams worked on one body, one on Tuesday and one Thursday. I will let you know I had plenty of time to dissect and if I wanted to come back on my off time. I know a lot of incoming students want to know about that. I thought my 2nd year was actually tougher then my 1st but much more "fun". This is where the rubber meets the road so to speak and its all system based. There are a lot of clinical correlations made though the classes that ends up helping you later. I did visiting rotations at bigger academic programs in my 4th year at places such as UNC, Cook County, USC, and University of Tennessee and I felt I had awesome training compared to my fellow peers.
Location: Two words…..SOUTH FLORIDA! This is Miami….this is the white sandy beaches…this is a busy area! The location has beautiful weather and plenty of time to study your histology by the pool in December. The area also has professional hockey, football, baseball, and basketball for you sports fans. There are so many places to eat and have a great time as well as short trips to Orlando or the Keys for a weekend get away when you need to just get away. Point to note though, it can get kinda expensive. Which leads to….
Cost: Honestly I don't remember what it is now. I have instate tuition and pay around 25K or so. (I was paying 22K when I started) I think out of state pays around 33K or so. I will say a decent apartment can run you around 1100-1300. This is easily worked around sharing with a roommate but again that's a pretty steep compared to other parts of the country. Gas is a little higher as well but this comes with being in a heavily populated area.
Faculty: The teaching faculty is pretty good. We have a great anatomy and histology professors. Our physiology professors are decent and I learned from them but they are more interested in research at times. In second year most of the classes are in systems. Almost every one of the lecturers was pretty good. Now of course every now and then there was a snoozer but hey….that's life. There is a Dr. Hasty that is a professor in Internal Medicine that will do anything for the students. He teaches a lot but also takes the time to make sure the students are doing well. Again, didactic wise I had a great education.
Administration: I will be honest. I think our administration could use some work. You'll see the Dean a bit through the first 2 years but honestly I haven't heard much from him since I started my 3rd year. I figure the next time I will hear from them is graduation. I also thought at times the clinical education department was difficult to work with but in the end it all worked out for me. As I said they could use some work and some communication but it had nothing to do with my quality of my education.
OMM: We have some great faculty here including Dr. Wallace and some others for OPP. This class takes its time and makes sure you know slowly how to do things the right way. HVLA is not taught until 2nd year. I am not a OMM kinda guy but I liked the classes in lab ….even cranial…..because I could sleep.
Reputation: Most of the time when people ask where I go to school they go ummmm ok. I do though get through some of my rotations people who know the candidates that come out of NSU and are quite happy. We place candidates throughout the country in a lot of specialties. I think my class had a lot of great placements as well. For the most part I think we put some damn great physicians.
I will say that NSU now is one of the older DO schools. This means there are more alumni and people that are familiar with the program. There are a lot of new programs out there now and I was happy I was at a place that had previous students that are in all sorts of programs though out the country. This in my opinion is a big plus.
Clinical Rotations: There are multiple rotation sites for NSU students. There are a lot of students so they run a lotto for placements throughout Florida for your core 3rd year rotations. Most students get their first choice. The most popular rotations are Broward General, Memorial Hospital, Mt. Sinai, Florida Hospital in Orlando, and Suncoast in Tampa. I was at Broward General which is a large level 1 trauma center in downtown Ft. Lauderdale. I though my rotations were absolutely awesome. One of the reasons I came to NSU was the pathology. There is a great mix of poor, homeless, tropical medicine, and south Florida has a HUGE HIV population. I saw so many funky and weird diseases during my time there. There were residency programs also at the hospital so I had a cushion for learning. There was also a lot of one on one time there so I got a to do a lot of procedures in 3rd year like central lines, chest tubes, IV, abscess drainage, suturing, delivering babies, and being 1st assist on a lot of surgical cases. I know you get a lot of these at other hospitals but I think there I had a great learning opportunity here.
You do have to do rural/underserved rotations in your 4th year. Two they assign to you and one you can do on your own. I choose EM at Cook County in Chicago cause its amazingly underserved. Others choose to do international rotations in Africa or India. They pay a stipend and provide housing for those on your rurals.
Housing: Again, can get expensive. I would say get a place near school and walk to class if you can. If you want a nicer place with a 15-20 drive I suggest Plantation which has some great apartments and you get a little more for the same price.
Study areas: Great in my opinion. There is a HPD library which is decent but tends to get quite busy since there are so many programs at the school. There are a lot of private study rooms and if you don't want to be at the HPD there is a MASSIVE library on campus that is really clean and modern. I had NO problems finding a place to study….just the motivation.
Social Scene: Its South Beach. Nuff said. There is always something to go do or see here. Sports, beach, drinking, cruises…..Miami has it all if you have the money.
Board Prep: They pay for Kaplan and you get all the books as well. There is a complete review course but I spent the time just reading the books they gave me as well as some I bought myself. I had like 6 weeks or so off for studying. I thought it was fine.
Happiness of Student Body: I added this here because I didn't see it earlier. For the most part we are content. We are not the cheery happiest medical student body out there but I think we are great clinicians. Don't get me wrong we have a lot of fun and there are a LOT of good times to be had in the Miami area. I think that as you progress there are a lot of stressors that add to the mix. Tough classes then boards….then setting up electives…then the match. All while still studying and working hard to be a great physician. Not specific to NSU but I think that student body is something that you need to look at while your out there.
OK its late and I'm tired, please let me know if you have any other questions.
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The only thing I hate is the 5.x% increase per year from a 40k school to eventually reach 48,xxx in 2012! It's to pay for the other programs that are soon to start up, but geez.... Oh so it gets an F- for that part. I don't think any other DO school is that high
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since we are a new school..i can only make predictions about our clinical years hehe. anyways, i will see if i can put something up about our school this week.
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WVSOM just increased tuition by another 5% for the 2007-08 fiscal year and now they are working to approve another increase for next year. That brings OOS students to paying over $50,000 per year in tuition to attend school here; NOT WORTH IT!!!
My story is similar to that posted by aecuenca2, only our first two years of tuition seem to go into deep pockets and 3rd and 4th year students report that we will receive minimal assistance once we are out on rotations as well. In addition, this school is NOT student friendly, although the admissions staff will do their best to make you beleive that.
Many of this school's business practices are under scrutiny from students, as many of us were blatently lied to during our interviews in 2005-2006.
In addition to that, this school has several policies that are NOT student friendly either. For example, there is a NO CHALLENGE policy, which may sound ok now, but once you have an issue with one of your exams and need help sorting it out, the professors/directors will turn a blind eye and tell you to refer to Institutional Policy blah blah that states a student cannot challenge professors with regard to exam questions. End of story.
Another policy describes how to report unprofessional behavior of another student. This policy was obviously put in place with good intentions, but immature students here have used it to settle personal vendettas against other students by pretending that the student "offended them" or was acting in an unprofessional manner at some time. (the maturity level most students here is minimal at best; lots of "high school" drama--see below for more on that) This leads to a huge headache for the student who is mature and did not do anything that is worth reporting, however, that poor student gets a letter sent to their "file" showing that someone else had an issue with that student. This would never hold up in court b/c it is their word against yours, but at this school, they tend to see it as, "you are guilty until proven innocent."
Immaturity of students...greater than 10 people in the current 2nd year class were caught with exams from the previous year (you aren't allowed to have exams that are less than 3 yrs old in your possession) and were making copies of them in the library to distribute to their friends. This was witnessed by several other students who contacted the Dean immediately to report the unprofessional behavior and to ensure that they did not get mixed up in it, since they happened to be in the library at that time. School legal proceedings occurred and these students are still in school here. In fact, many of them are our student leaders. This was all kept very hush-hush and none of the uninvolved students (whose grades have been negatively affected b/c the cheaters were getting
>95% on most of their tests) were given a voice in the matter.
Also, students were caught having sex in the classroom and also in the parking lot of the school. Of course, they still go to school here as well.
If anyone else wants to report some good things about the school, feel free to inform others, as I have nothing positive to report.
My story is similar to that posted by aecuenca2, only our first two years of tuition seem to go into deep pockets and 3rd and 4th year students report that we will receive minimal assistance once we are out on rotations as well. In addition, this school is NOT student friendly, although the admissions staff will do their best to make you beleive that.
Many of this school's business practices are under scrutiny from students, as many of us were blatently lied to during our interviews in 2005-2006.
In addition to that, this school has several policies that are NOT student friendly either. For example, there is a NO CHALLENGE policy, which may sound ok now, but once you have an issue with one of your exams and need help sorting it out, the professors/directors will turn a blind eye and tell you to refer to Institutional Policy blah blah that states a student cannot challenge professors with regard to exam questions. End of story.
Another policy describes how to report unprofessional behavior of another student. This policy was obviously put in place with good intentions, but immature students here have used it to settle personal vendettas against other students by pretending that the student "offended them" or was acting in an unprofessional manner at some time. (the maturity level most students here is minimal at best; lots of "high school" drama--see below for more on that) This leads to a huge headache for the student who is mature and did not do anything that is worth reporting, however, that poor student gets a letter sent to their "file" showing that someone else had an issue with that student. This would never hold up in court b/c it is their word against yours, but at this school, they tend to see it as, "you are guilty until proven innocent."
Immaturity of students...greater than 10 people in the current 2nd year class were caught with exams from the previous year (you aren't allowed to have exams that are less than 3 yrs old in your possession) and were making copies of them in the library to distribute to their friends. This was witnessed by several other students who contacted the Dean immediately to report the unprofessional behavior and to ensure that they did not get mixed up in it, since they happened to be in the library at that time. School legal proceedings occurred and these students are still in school here. In fact, many of them are our student leaders. This was all kept very hush-hush and none of the uninvolved students (whose grades have been negatively affected b/c the cheaters were getting
>95% on most of their tests) were given a voice in the matter.
Also, students were caught having sex in the classroom and also in the parking lot of the school. Of course, they still go to school here as well.
If anyone else wants to report some good things about the school, feel free to inform others, as I have nothing positive to report.
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Wow, I know it's been a while since this conversation was going, but I just had the pleasure of reviewing this thread once again, so I thought I would reply.
My undergraduate major was Biochemistry. Though I am not published, I worked in a number of laboratories producing a good amount of data surrounding a number of different topics in biochemistry. Prior to coming to medical school, I worked for AMGEN in their Pharmaceutical Engineering department.
As important as biochemistry is in the real world, any exposure you get to it for one month as a class in your first year of medical school probably won't be sufficient. In fact, teaching it more than a year before you go off to clinical rotations makes integrating the knowledge so far in advance a futile endeavor. Who remembers the 4th step in the Krebs Cycle? Anyone? No cheating. And does it matter?
As for 4th year rotations, I actually welcome the opportunity to select the sites through which I rotate. Sure, no one wants to do extra work. But it really isn't all that much to begin with. It's nothing more than a few e-mails, a couple phone calls and a form or two to fill out. Perhaps that cuts into your SDN time, but I'll accept that.
Thanks Coxsuckie Virus! It is always nice to hear different perspectives
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Also, students were caught having sex in the classroom and also in the parking lot of the school. Of course, they still go to school here as well.
QUOTE]
Isnt that part of being a family in West Virginia?
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I disagree with the above poster regarding NSUCOM.
I just got done with 2nd year, and i'm very unsatisfied with my experience especially this second year. I cannot comment about clinicals yet, but i've heard great things about them.
This does NOT apply to the OPP course, which is great! Dr Boesler and the OMT faculty do teach you very well and are very enthusiastic and care about the students. Also the pharmacology dpt and a few Path profs are good.
I thought first year courses were decent for the most part. I thought second year SUCKED big time and did not try to integrate what we learned in first year......here it goes
First off, i think NSU needs a better teaching methodology for second year courses. We get lecturers/doctors coming in and giving lectures about many topics that are NOT relevant for Step 1 of the boards. Things like eye surgery, hip surgery, post op rehab, etc. Also, the courses do NOT follow a book (except for OBGYN perhaps). Instead we get crappy illegible handouts from the doc who comes and gives a lecture, sometimes we can't even understand what they say. Students created "note service" which is a program in which one student takes notes in every class and then distributes them to the rest of the suscribers. I think it's a shame that you have to pay 300 bucks for this service because if you miss a class there is no textbook to follow. Some (in fact, many) lecturers are so vague that you just don't learn anything and waste your time, time that could be used preparing for the boards. Many don't even have handouts to provide. Many think that you are at their level and start talking to you as if you were a specialist.
Although i managed to get A's in most of my systems courses, I feel like many lectures were a waste of my time, esp. the ones by the clinicians. I could have learned so much more staying home during this past year and reading the Kaplan books .In fact, if i were to do it over again, that's what i would have probably done. I feel like the school could have done a much better job preparing us for Step 1.
I have friends who graduated from schools in the caribbean and across the US and they rocked the boards because the school did a great job in preparing them. I believe that board prep should not be about learning new material but about reviewing things that you were thought or were supposed to be taught. I believe that a school should assign a textbook for each subject which is board relevant and from which lectures are based on.
I will not even get into our clinical course (the 2nd year one). Basically we didn't get thought anything, we just went in and got tested in different patient simulation experiences. But they plan to change this for next year in order to incorporate better/more teaching
This is just my opinion and feel free to disagree with me. I just think they could have done much better.
I just got done with 2nd year, and i'm very unsatisfied with my experience especially this second year. I cannot comment about clinicals yet, but i've heard great things about them.
This does NOT apply to the OPP course, which is great! Dr Boesler and the OMT faculty do teach you very well and are very enthusiastic and care about the students. Also the pharmacology dpt and a few Path profs are good.
I thought first year courses were decent for the most part. I thought second year SUCKED big time and did not try to integrate what we learned in first year......here it goes
First off, i think NSU needs a better teaching methodology for second year courses. We get lecturers/doctors coming in and giving lectures about many topics that are NOT relevant for Step 1 of the boards. Things like eye surgery, hip surgery, post op rehab, etc. Also, the courses do NOT follow a book (except for OBGYN perhaps). Instead we get crappy illegible handouts from the doc who comes and gives a lecture, sometimes we can't even understand what they say. Students created "note service" which is a program in which one student takes notes in every class and then distributes them to the rest of the suscribers. I think it's a shame that you have to pay 300 bucks for this service because if you miss a class there is no textbook to follow. Some (in fact, many) lecturers are so vague that you just don't learn anything and waste your time, time that could be used preparing for the boards. Many don't even have handouts to provide. Many think that you are at their level and start talking to you as if you were a specialist.
Although i managed to get A's in most of my systems courses, I feel like many lectures were a waste of my time, esp. the ones by the clinicians. I could have learned so much more staying home during this past year and reading the Kaplan books .In fact, if i were to do it over again, that's what i would have probably done. I feel like the school could have done a much better job preparing us for Step 1.
I have friends who graduated from schools in the caribbean and across the US and they rocked the boards because the school did a great job in preparing them. I believe that board prep should not be about learning new material but about reviewing things that you were thought or were supposed to be taught. I believe that a school should assign a textbook for each subject which is board relevant and from which lectures are based on.
I will not even get into our clinical course (the 2nd year one). Basically we didn't get thought anything, we just went in and got tested in different patient simulation experiences. But they plan to change this for next year in order to incorporate better/more teaching
This is just my opinion and feel free to disagree with me. I just think they could have done much better.
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I'm going into my M2 year at NSU, so take my comments for what they're worth.
The first year curriculum was ok, though I feel that the biochem department is pretty weak, and has some really bad lecturers, dr.block and dr venk notwithstanding.
There's also a sense of paranoia shared by some of the profs that they'll get sued for copyright infringement, so they either refuse to use any diagrams, or choose to NOT give us any lecture notes, which was beyond ******ed.
My main concern with NSU is its rural rotations requirement. I am worried that it may potentially interfere with me doing my audition rotations in fourth year, which are critical in helping you land residencies.
Another issue is their restrictions on elective rotations. You cannot rotate in the same specialty more than twice, from what I hear, unless it's primary care, IM subspecialties being an exception.
Also, you spend a lot of time in family med and IM during 3rd year, and don't get a lot of exposure to many other specialties like rads/neuro/ophtho etc.
The first year curriculum was ok, though I feel that the biochem department is pretty weak, and has some really bad lecturers, dr.block and dr venk notwithstanding.
There's also a sense of paranoia shared by some of the profs that they'll get sued for copyright infringement, so they either refuse to use any diagrams, or choose to NOT give us any lecture notes, which was beyond ******ed.
My main concern with NSU is its rural rotations requirement. I am worried that it may potentially interfere with me doing my audition rotations in fourth year, which are critical in helping you land residencies.
Another issue is their restrictions on elective rotations. You cannot rotate in the same specialty more than twice, from what I hear, unless it's primary care, IM subspecialties being an exception.
Also, you spend a lot of time in family med and IM during 3rd year, and don't get a lot of exposure to many other specialties like rads/neuro/ophtho etc.
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Hell Yeah!!!
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What I'm seeing with away rotations is that the "standard" 3rd year curriculum subjects are required - so you need to have finished 3 months of IM, and 6 weeks each of surg, psych, peds, and ob/gyn (UWSOM's list, as an example) in order to do a 4th year audition rotation. I also saw ER and neurology listed as foundation subjects for other schools. It's my understanding that the 3rd year standard curriculum pretty much encompasses the step 2/CK/PE boards, so putting specialties in 3rd year limits options for board scheduling. And it's my understanding that rotations in specialties/subspecialties can't be scheduled until after the standard 3rd year curriculum subjects. In particular, 3 months of IM in 3rd year is very much on purpose, as far as I can tell.
But I am worried about all the family med and rural med, largely based on your comments here and elsewhere. I want to hit the ground running with electives right away in 4th year, and be able to push family/rural med out until after interviews. If I can't have some control over the schedule, then that would suck.
Please keep posting as you navigate the system.
Will someone do one for Touro-NV, please?
I appreciate all of this insight, especially for PCOM and UMDNJ-SOM, as I'm quite interested in those schools.
I appreciate all of this insight, especially for PCOM and UMDNJ-SOM, as I'm quite interested in those schools.
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I can agree with a lot of what some other posters have said about things at NSU. There are some good things and bad things, take what fits for you. Anyway, I wanted to add a few things.
Here is a very interesting point. Its a Lotto for the 2 months. they can be anywhere in your 4th year but they make a point to make sure you get 2 months during "peak" interview times for auditions. I got lucky and had my two months at the very end. One of my friends had them in aug/sept. Both of us ended up in academic university residencies. So, a lot is what you do with what your given. I also like to point out that NSU gives you the entire month of July off in 4th year for board prep. If your interested, as I was, you can deny this and use the month as an extra elective month. If your into more competive fields a extra month in July is sweet.
I went into EM. Here was my 4th year.....July EM "home program", August Cook County "Rural selective" EM, Sept "audition" elective EM, Oct "audition" elective EM, nov "visiting" STICU elective at a location where there was a EM residency. Thats a lot of EM but still falls into the game. See, 2 EM electives, a rural elective and my home rotation. I had plenty of time and ability to get letters and as you can see I gave up my july board study month.
Do not think for a minute that the entire administration wouldn't be happy to have an entire class do primary care. Its the DO's passion. Every school proclaims it even if their match lists show differently. I think one month of family would have been great. I also think rotating one of the 3 months of IM in a subspeciality would have been cool also but I totally loved broward for my 3rd year and I saw a lot of fun stuff there. I ended up doing 2 more internal medicine electives (ie.. cards, ID, pulm, heme/onc) in spring of my 4th year, too late for a career but I was still exposed to it prior to graduation.
Here is a very interesting point. Its a Lotto for the 2 months. they can be anywhere in your 4th year but they make a point to make sure you get 2 months during "peak" interview times for auditions. I got lucky and had my two months at the very end. One of my friends had them in aug/sept. Both of us ended up in academic university residencies. So, a lot is what you do with what your given. I also like to point out that NSU gives you the entire month of July off in 4th year for board prep. If your interested, as I was, you can deny this and use the month as an extra elective month. If your into more competive fields a extra month in July is sweet.
I went into EM. Here was my 4th year.....July EM "home program", August Cook County "Rural selective" EM, Sept "audition" elective EM, Oct "audition" elective EM, nov "visiting" STICU elective at a location where there was a EM residency. Thats a lot of EM but still falls into the game. See, 2 EM electives, a rural elective and my home rotation. I had plenty of time and ability to get letters and as you can see I gave up my july board study month.
Do not think for a minute that the entire administration wouldn't be happy to have an entire class do primary care. Its the DO's passion. Every school proclaims it even if their match lists show differently. I think one month of family would have been great. I also think rotating one of the 3 months of IM in a subspeciality would have been cool also but I totally loved broward for my 3rd year and I saw a lot of fun stuff there. I ended up doing 2 more internal medicine electives (ie.. cards, ID, pulm, heme/onc) in spring of my 4th year, too late for a career but I was still exposed to it prior to graduation.
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wow, no NYCOM-ers feel the need to defend their school? Reardless of the fact that the post was 3 years old, the poster absolutley SLAMMED the school. He/she made it sound like the worst possible decision any human being could make. I know its an old review, but right now its the only review, so i can't help but be turned off. Did NYCOM really turn around their stuff that significnatly within 3 years?? Somebody has to have an opinion... I applied to NYCOM and am interested in their DO/MS degree, but as of now, im not so sure.
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Hell yea. I'm all about AZCOM. Good to hear it's as fantastic for the students as it was for me when I went on tour.
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I guess I could post one around christmas time but anybody further along wanna post?
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Will only be able to do a complete & honest review AFTER the match. That alone should tell you something 😡
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Update on UNE from someone who just finished second year and took boards:
Board Prep: they do NOT teach for the boards. In fact, they say that as rather a matter of pride. And then they give you only a few weeks before you must take boards after completion of second year. No board prep course. So basically, you aren't taught for boards in your courses, you get no board prep course, and you aren't given as much time for board prep as it would be nice to have and CERTAINLY not enough time to go to a board prep course (which you would have to pay for that isn't included in your COA). So basically, I give them an F for board prep. This from someone who never failed a class in med school (and many folks do). And I did pass COMLEX Step 1.
Perhaps the new Dean will be changing that - he used to work for NBOME. I would highly recommend going to UNE and getting an audience with Dean Gimple to ask some really hard questions. He has been quite approachable and seems very interested in education.
Board Prep: they do NOT teach for the boards. In fact, they say that as rather a matter of pride. And then they give you only a few weeks before you must take boards after completion of second year. No board prep course. So basically, you aren't taught for boards in your courses, you get no board prep course, and you aren't given as much time for board prep as it would be nice to have and CERTAINLY not enough time to go to a board prep course (which you would have to pay for that isn't included in your COA). So basically, I give them an F for board prep. This from someone who never failed a class in med school (and many folks do). And I did pass COMLEX Step 1.
Perhaps the new Dean will be changing that - he used to work for NBOME. I would highly recommend going to UNE and getting an audience with Dean Gimple to ask some really hard questions. He has been quite approachable and seems very interested in education.
Thankf for the update Shy, and I'm sorry to hear that you did not feel UNE helped to make you well prepared for the boards. where your comments about the new dean sarcastic, or is there really hope?
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The comments about Dean Gimple were completely sincere. I really hope he will do some good for UNE. The previous dean didn't do us any favors, nor is the new president of the college (she came in 2006). But he'll have one heck of an uphill fight.
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Shyrem, what was your experience with the USMLE? Were you able to prepare for that one as well in the short time you had?
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both exams are similar in scope and breadth... but terribly different in focus. The study time needed for each would be the same, and the materials are the same with the exception of 1 day of study on OMM.
Study time for either exam was insufficient to do as well as I would have liked. If I had to do it over again, I would totally skip every class possible (except the mandatory attendance ones) beginning in January and start focusing on boards then. I would give just enough time to regular classes to barely pass. A P on your record is a P whether it's a 70 or an 89, and a bunch of H's on your record won't help a failing board score.
Bottom line: the study time given with the schedule given by the NBOME and UNE was totally insufficient if you want to try and do class and then boards when classes are done and expect to do well in boards. At this point as things stand now, you have to choose one over the other. I am hopeful the new Dean will fix this issue.
Study time for either exam was insufficient to do as well as I would have liked. If I had to do it over again, I would totally skip every class possible (except the mandatory attendance ones) beginning in January and start focusing on boards then. I would give just enough time to regular classes to barely pass. A P on your record is a P whether it's a 70 or an 89, and a bunch of H's on your record won't help a failing board score.
Bottom line: the study time given with the schedule given by the NBOME and UNE was totally insufficient if you want to try and do class and then boards when classes are done and expect to do well in boards. At this point as things stand now, you have to choose one over the other. I am hopeful the new Dean will fix this issue.
Ok. Here's a bribe (not really). I'll donate (been meaning to) if we can get 2 more recent reviews, just to show my appreciation and to keep one of the most helpful threads rolling.
P.S. I hope I can contribute to this someday 😳
P.S. I hope I can contribute to this someday 😳
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I will be attending Touro-NV which has a mandatory attendance policy. Anyone from Touro, or any other school that has this policy, want to give their opinions on this matter? This is probably one of the major concerns that I have attending Touro-NV, since I'm planning on taking both the USMLE & COMLEX.
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