Isn't shadowing intrusive?

Well your supposed to get the hippa speech/orientation altho I know most people dont. Usually the doc comes in introduces you as a pre-medical student and asks if its okay to observe. If the patient says no, you wait outside until the next patient.

That's what a teaching hospital is. What do you think you'll be doing as a 3rd/4th year and resident?

i dont know what kind of shadowing experience you've had but every time i've gone into the OR with a physician i was definitely NOT hungover and was on my Ps and Qs. every patient i've been introduced to had no problem with me watching; whether it be in the office or the OR

if you're going to your shadowing hungover...YIKES!

GH253 said:

Speaking as a patient, I know that I would be totally opposed to having an audience of any kind during my appointments. How is physician shadowing not a glaring violation of patient privacy?

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They make you sit through all sorts of privacy talks and videos; you can only go ahead if you are allowed by the vol dept or some other dept. As a patient, I can understand you may find it intrusive. That is why most physicians ask the patient if he/she is comfortable w/ the shadow in the examining room. 90% of the time patients have no problem regardless of the area of medicine.

GH253 said:

Speaking as a patient, I know that I would be totally opposed to having an audience of any kind during my appointments. How is physician shadowing not a glaring violation of patient privacy?

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I think it depends on the patient. SOme approve ut while others dont. While I was shadowing a GP, I had some patients who kindly asked me to step out.

GH253 said:

I think being a physian in training is a little bit different from being a hung over college kid with an interest in medicine.

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I don't think that the expectation from most med schools is that you will have reams of shadowing experiences. Only a few hours will suffice...a pretty good place to shadow is in the ER which is more or less a public space where you will be much less conspicuous. I share your discomfort with the whole thing, especially going into a small room with a doc and a patient...I have done very little of that sort of thing, except for some hospice observation I did. Most of my experiences have been in the ER, and in surgery, where you feel much less conspicuous.

So try to get some shadowing in, but really focus on the clinical exposure through volunteer activities.

I've seen at least 100 patients in shadowing experiences. Not one asked me to leave. If you're at a teaching hospital, and the patient has been there before, they know the deal.

the doctors i always shadow always ask if its ok, and usually the patient is more worried about their problem then a student trying to observe....

I'm going to be shadowing my uncle this summer, and the man in charge of Ethics is making me sign a form, and all the patients also have to sign forms. So if you are shadowing at a private practice, it seems to be a pretty big deal.

If you agree to the student being in the room, how is your privacy being violated?

Everyone should stop being so hysterical - if the patients don't like something, they can speak up.

GH253 said:

I think being a physian in training is a little bit different from being a hung over college kid with an interest in medicine.

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I don't understand the bolded portion of this statement. Were you just trying to stereotype your fellow college students? It just seems like a stupid/useless thing to say.

Anyways for the original question, the patients are usually asked. I shadowed an Ob/Gyn and only had one patient ask that I not enter the room. As others have said, if the patients are being asked, then how could it possibly be a violation of privacy?

I shadowed an OB/GYN for a year. I had to go through the training signing all the paperwork and such as if I would have been employed there (HIPAA, and other stuff). I think there may have been maybe 4 patients the whole time I was there that didn't let me come in, and I know one of those was because the woman had just miscarried. This is one of the specialties that I feel patients are more vulnerable and would be more likely to not want a student. But they were fine with it in most cases. It also probably has something to do with the fact that I am a female, but still...

The ER that I volunteer in I get to follow the doctors around. I stand over the patient with them as they diagnose and they tell me the diagnosis, what they are going to prescribe and the physiology of all the medications. They also explain to me how to view x-rays if they need a chest x-ray or a ct scan. Its bad ass.

The sad part is the majority of the people that come in are pretty much from the ghetto because the hospital isn't in the best location. Mostly everyone that comes into the ER has no idea where they are and are jacked up on some sort of drugs.

Medical training has to start somewhere. There is not (or shouldn't be) a glaring divide between premedical and medical education. Better to make sure our students are better prepared for medical school and know what they are getting themselves into.

And if anything, many patients are happy to have someone else to talk to. It never was a problem when I shadowed.

GH253 said:

Speaking as a patient, I know that I would be totally opposed to having an audience of any kind during my appointments. How is physician shadowing not a glaring violation of patient privacy?

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It really just depends on the patient and/or doctor.

Some places aren't as strict and will allow you to get away with a lot of experience. Others may not even let you see anything.

^scutmonkey!

I went to a teaching hospital once for a lump I have on the side of my head. I was probably 13 at the time, and had a good 4-5 students, in addition to the dermatologist, come into the room and poke at my lump. I would have much preferred to have just one person standing quietly and just observing to that experience. Might object to it in an OBGYN situation, but that tends to be a little more private than other specialties.

GH253 said:

Speaking as a patient, I know that I would be totally opposed to having an audience of any kind during my appointments. How is physician shadowing not a glaring violation of patient privacy?

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This is primarily the reason most doctors in Canada do not allow shadowing.

EDIT: But then the Canadian schools do not really expect you to have shadowing so it works out in the end. But it's us Canadians trying to get in American schools that have to somehow find someone to allow shadowing.

UVAbme2009 said:

I've seen at least 100 patients in shadowing experiences. Not one asked me to leave. If you're at a teaching hospital, and the patient has been there before, they know the deal.

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Over about 350 hours, no patient has ever kicked me out, but the mothers of the 15 year olds with dysfunctional uterine bleeding can be mean, so I do my best to avoid them. I also try to stay out of the way of the more hostile medical clearance patients who Psych still hasn't gotten around to clearing a bed for (I mean, it's only been 10 hours, who do we think they are). They aren't always the nicest patients around. Sometimes the physicians introduce me as student/medical student/volunteer/associate/etc, sometimes they don't. I try to at least acknowledge the patient and his or her parents when I can.