harsh pre-med advisor

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yellowbird

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After years of ruminating and stalking this forum obsessively, I finally decided to commit and officially pursue the pre-med pathway. I declared a major in biology and will be taking the necessary pre-reqs.

However, I met with my advisor today and was pretty taken aback. I definitely feel like she was trying to scare me and change my mind. She said my courseload would be too difficult because I am playing catch-up at the moment (i'm a sophomore), even though i'm managing chem, bio, physics, and a multicultural just fine. She scolded me and "doubted my commitment" because I am not super-involved with the school. She said that med schools would look unfavorably on my "resume" because of disloyalty to the school.
Besides school I divide my time amongst:
-working p/t at a restaurant (10-15 hrs/week)
-riding and training horses, regularly competing (3-4 weekdays, both weekend days - I would guess 25-30 hrs/week)
During the summer I am a working student for my barn and spend 40+ hrs/week there. I am hopefully going to work for an anesthesiologist this summer - in the afternoons/nights, so I can still do morning barn chores/ride.

The only thing I do through the school is the language program - I have a language partner that I regularly talk/meet with so that she can improve her english.

Is my advisor right? Will doing a sport outside of school instead of for the school hurt me? Does it really matter that my passions do not involve the university?
 
yellowbird said:
She scolded me and "doubted my commitment" because I am not super-involved with the school. She said that med schools would look unfavorably on my "resume" because of disloyalty to the school.
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Your advisor doesn't know what she's talking about. It doesn't matter if your extra-curriculars are through the school or not.
 
Not yet, I only just declared. But, like I said, hoping to work in a sleep center this summer if all goes well.
 
yellowbird said:
After years of ruminating and stalking this forum obsessively, I finally decided to commit and officially pursue the pre-med pathway. I declared a major in biology and will be taking the necessary pre-reqs.

However, I met with my advisor today and was pretty taken aback. I definitely feel like she was trying to scare me and change my mind. She said my courseload would be too difficult because I am playing catch-up at the moment (i'm a sophomore), even though i'm managing chem, bio, physics, and a multicultural just fine. She scolded me and "doubted my commitment" because I am not super-involved with the school. She said that med schools would look unfavorably on my "resume" because of disloyalty to the school.
Besides school I divide my time amongst:
-working p/t at a restaurant (10-15 hrs/week)
-riding and training horses, regularly competing (3-4 weekdays, both weekend days - I would guess 25-30 hrs/week)
During the summer I am a working student for my barn and spend 40+ hrs/week there. I am hopefully going to work for an anesthesiologist this summer - in the afternoons/nights, so I can still do morning barn chores/ride.

The only thing I do through the school is the language program - I have a language partner that I regularly talk/meet with so that she can improve her english.

Is my advisor right? Will doing a sport outside of school instead of for the school hurt me? Does it really matter that my passions do not involve the university?
Click to expand...
Oh advisors...I think's it's really commendable that you have something you're passionate about. IMHO, I don't think location of an activity is as important as what you get out of it. And it looks like you're pretty solid on the school side too. Don't let your advisor discourage you if going to med school is what you really want! GL!
 
Advisors dont know how to advise. Most of them know nothing about medical school and will only do more damage, scare you or could make you turn your head away from medicine by telling you nonsense about people she/he 'knows' that went to medical school or that wanted to go.

If you need questions answered just ask them here. You should get a response to anything in around a few hours depending on how many people are here. Or there is a good chance that you will get many opinions by the next day.
 
SDN is the best advisor. People on SDN, unlike most advisors, have actually been through the process, some of them multiple times(like me). You can learn from many real life cases and based on my teaching experiences, people always learn the best when they understand WHY they're doing what they're doing. Plus, we understand what you're going through, the anxiety, the disappointments, etc., so we can counsel you much better.

As for your situation, you need to get some medically related EC's. Start volunteering at hospitals/clinics/hospices/etc. and start shadowing physicians. It's not only important for application purposes, they're also very important for you to understand what you're getting into. If you wish to increase your options, do some research as well, and especially try to find one that can get your name on a paper.
 
Well,

I can see how she would "doubt your commitment," though I wouldn't put it that way..I don't think med schools care about how involved you are with your school, but I think they do care about how involved you are with the medical field..

moreso than anything, they want to know that you know what field youre getting to, that you have a passion for medicine..most people show that through volunteer in some sort of clinical setting, which it doesn't seem you have too much of..

its def not too late to start, and I don't think she should discourage you..I think its great that you have something outside of school that you love doing, thats a great thing

but I'd try to throw in some volunteering/shadowing or something to show schools that this is what you want and its something you've gone out of your way to discover
 
I've been through 6 years of college/uni and I can say without hesitating that most "advisors" are idiots. They try to act as if they know what they're talking about but most do not. Don't look at people who help run the university as know-it-all gods. Question "authority" and do your own research. Stick around here, read past posts, check out mdapps to see who got in where and with what background, and basically get all the info you can (except "advisor" "information" :laugh:). Good luck.

By the way, the background that you posted about yourself sounds excellent for just being a sophmore. Keep doing what your doing and tailor it to get your into med school. 👍
 
Hey, I Ride obsessively too!! Whatever you do don't give it up. It is awesome that you are committed. I recently cut back on my riding time though. It is worth it if you really want to get into medical school because you really need the clinical experiece.
 
I agree with the general dismissive tone directed at your advisor. Your sport shows dedication for a long time, and adcomms love that. It need not be a school sport. Volunteering for the language program is a community service; this is also important. Working in a clinical environment for a summer is good, but it won't be enough. If you could volunteer in a medical environment (hospital, nursing home, clinic, physical therapy office, residential home for those with disabilities, etc) for just 2-4 hours a week for the rest of college, adcomms will be satisfied that you tested the vocation of medicine, and you'll also be providing additional community service. When volunteering, you will meet doctors that you can ask to shadow. Shadowing can be brief, intermittent experiences with a few types of doctor, where you just watch what they do for a day or two, doing paperwork, dictating, examining patients, making patient calls, doing operations, giving anesthesia). Research and leadership are other activities you should think about gaining.
 
The only thing I would drop from your schedule is working p/t at the restaurant. That won't look good on your resume & only takes time away from your studies. Unless you seriously, seriously, need the money.

Instead of working at the restaurant, use that time to do research/volunteer at hospital.
 
.
 
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My pre-med advisor told me a "major weak point" in my application was that most of my ECs were not through my undergrad. I don't think it's affected my interview invites at all😀.

I would say just use SDN to make sure you have all the bases covered (clinical, service, research??, etc.) and continue doing things you are really interested in. Genuine passions come through well in interviews. Ignore that advisor...just meet with him/her if you have to!
 
yellowbird said:
After years of ruminating and stalking this forum obsessively, I finally decided to commit and officially pursue the pre-med pathway. I declared a major in biology and will be taking the necessary pre-reqs.

However, I met with my advisor today and was pretty taken aback. I definitely feel like she was trying to scare me and change my mind. She said my courseload would be too difficult because I am playing catch-up at the moment (i'm a sophomore), even though i'm managing chem, bio, physics, and a multicultural just fine. She scolded me and "doubted my commitment" because I am not super-involved with the school. She said that med schools would look unfavorably on my "resume" because of disloyalty to the school.
Besides school I divide my time amongst:
-working p/t at a restaurant (10-15 hrs/week)
-riding and training horses, regularly competing (3-4 weekdays, both weekend days - I would guess 25-30 hrs/week)
During the summer I am a working student for my barn and spend 40+ hrs/week there. I am hopefully going to work for an anesthesiologist this summer - in the afternoons/nights, so I can still do morning barn chores/ride.

The only thing I do through the school is the language program - I have a language partner that I regularly talk/meet with so that she can improve her english.

Is my advisor right? Will doing a sport outside of school instead of for the school hurt me? Does it really matter that my passions do not involve the university?
Click to expand...

First of all, you are an adult and as such, you make your own decisions. You do not have to meet the approval of another adult in terms of what is the correct path for you life. Unless you are not able to manage your course load, your premed adviser was out of line and as such, ignore what doesn't work for you and move on.

Next thing, make sure that you are not super-sensitive because YOU doubt your own abilities. Often people who are "matter of fact" are perceived as harsh in the mind of someone who is looking for a "cheerleader" rather than an adviser who will give you objective advice. Don't let this be the case either.

If you are getting your coursework done (no grades less than B+) and you are moving forward, then you can do any outside activity that keeps your head sane. Everyone needs a good balance in the medical school application process. There is nothing wrong with having an outside sport or interest that you enjoy. It's the folks that do not have these outside interests that often find themselves in academic trouble. In short, do anything legal that helps you do your best academically (away from the school or not). If you could play your sport for the school and get some athletic scholarship money, then look into this but otherwise, what you do on your own time is your business.

Finally, see if you can find another premed adviser. If not, then keep performing excellent work and glean anything useful that you can from this person and let the rest go. No person's opinion of you is more valuable than your opinion of you. If you can't get this person to chill out with the "scolding" then take a digital tape recorder with you (in your coat pocket), tape them and then speak with a dean. No student who is coming for advice needs to be scolded or judged.
 
My pre-med advisor opened up the student catalog where it broke down your schedule for all 4 years and read it to me when I asked when I should take classes since I was switching some of them up.

Needless to say, after being read out of the same book I already had and read, I never went back to him.
 
dingyibvs said:
SDN is the best advisor. People on SDN, unlike most advisors, have actually been through the process, some of them multiple times(like me). You can learn from many real life cases and based on my teaching experiences, people always learn the best when they understand WHY they're doing what they're doing. Plus, we understand what you're going through, the anxiety, the disappointments, etc., so we can counsel you much better.

As for your situation, you need to get some medically related EC's. Start volunteering at hospitals/clinics/hospices/etc. and start shadowing physicians. It's not only important for application purposes, they're also very important for you to understand what you're getting into. If you wish to increase your options, do some research as well, and especially try to find one that can get your name on a paper.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Out of curiosity, what do you think of the UF Premedical Advising?
 
penguin24 said:
The only thing I would drop from your schedule is working p/t at the restaurant. That won't look good on your resume & only takes time away from your studies. Unless you seriously, seriously, need the money.
Click to expand...
Working won't look good on a resume? :laugh:

Yeah, because having great work ethic is such a horrible quality to have. 🙄

Instead of working at the restaurant, use that time to do research/volunteer at hospital.
Click to expand...
Not everyone can volunteer 100 hours a week because not everyone lives off of mommy and daddy.
 
ILikeDrugs said:
Working won't look good on a resume? :laugh:

Yeah, because having great work ethic is such a horrible quality to have. 🙄


Not everyone can volunteer 100 hours a week because not everyone lives off of mommy and daddy.
Click to expand...

I agree. Working in retail or food service requires stamina, a servant's heart, teamwork, and diplomacy. Do you think we want people with those skills in medical school?
 
As cynical as this sounds, keep in mind that at some institutions premed advisers have a conflict of interest when it comes to students who aren't top of the line candidates. A lot of schools that report that they have XX% acceptance to medical school may not encourage (or actively discourage as was the case with my adviser, my school boasted of 96.2% acceptance at the time) students who don't have X.XX GPA, XX MCAT, and X extracurriculars from applying.
 
Don't listen to your adviser. With all these budget cuts schools need to do, I don't see why the pre med advisers weren't the first to go.
 
yellowbird said:
After years of ruminating and stalking this forum obsessively, I finally decided to commit and officially pursue the pre-med pathway. I declared a major in biology and will be taking the necessary pre-reqs.

However, I met with my advisor today and was pretty taken aback. I definitely feel like she was trying to scare me and change my mind. She said my courseload would be too difficult because I am playing catch-up at the moment (i'm a sophomore), even though i'm managing chem, bio, physics, and a multicultural just fine. She scolded me and "doubted my commitment" because I am not super-involved with the school. She said that med schools would look unfavorably on my "resume" because of disloyalty to the school.
Besides school I divide my time amongst:
-working p/t at a restaurant (10-15 hrs/week)
-riding and training horses, regularly competing (3-4 weekdays, both weekend days - I would guess 25-30 hrs/week)
During the summer I am a working student for my barn and spend 40+ hrs/week there. I am hopefully going to work for an anesthesiologist this summer - in the afternoons/nights, so I can still do morning barn chores/ride.

The only thing I do through the school is the language program - I have a language partner that I regularly talk/meet with so that she can improve her english.

Is my advisor right? Will doing a sport outside of school instead of for the school hurt me? Does it really matter that my passions do not involve the university?
Click to expand...

for the most part your advisor has demonstrated why she should NOT be an advisor, which surprisingly happens quite frequently.

However, it is imperative that you thoroughly investigate what it is about medicine that interests you...and you accomplish that through clinical experiences, research, etc...

The horseback riding, working in a barn, etc... is really unique.

best of luck to you

and BTW: YOU DO NOT have to go to medical school right out of college...in fact most people DO NOT...hence the reason why average age of matriculants is around 24 y.o.
 
ILikeDrugs said:
Working won't look good on a resume? :laugh:

Yeah, because having great work ethic is such a horrible quality to have. 🙄


Not everyone can volunteer 100 hours a week because not everyone lives off of mommy and daddy.
Click to expand...

Could Not agree more with you here. There's NOTHING wrong with working while going to school. Work full time + school full time + volunteering = little free time. I've had to learn how to manage my time and handle stress. I'm doing the same things that everyone else has to do with 40+ hours less a week... And I'm expected to have the same stats so my app doesn't get tossed aside. I would take that applicant over the "mooching off mom and dad" type any day...
 
Dont listen to your advisor. I stopped listening around sophomore year, I turned out fine.
 
Thanks everyone, I feel soo much better.
Unfortunately I do need to work; however, I'm looking into a summer reseach fellowship that would give me a little stipend. So at least that would me medically relevant and I could earn some much needed money. I really do love research and medicine so I'm really excited about all of the experience I'm planning for the rest of college.
However, horses are my passion and as long as I can keep my gpa above 3.8 I refuse to be coerced into cutting down my riding time! 🙂
I will apply to attend right out of college, but if needed I will definitely take a year off to build up my resume - although I hope I get in the the first try. :]

Another question: I have ~100 hours at a nonprofit bird rescue. My advisor told me NOT to include this because its not relevant and the admissions would wonder why I'm not doing vet med. Even though I don't want to work with animals as a career, I enjoyed and value the time I spent volunteering there. Sould I put it in anyway?
 
yellowbird said:
Thanks everyone, I feel soo much better.
Unfortunately I do need to work; however, I'm looking into a summer reseach fellowship that would give me a little stipend. So at least that would me medically relevant and I could earn some much needed money. I really do love research and medicine so I'm really excited about all of the experience I'm planning for the rest of college.
However, horses are my passion and as long as I can keep my gpa above 3.8 I refuse to be coerced into cutting down my riding time! 🙂
I will apply to attend right out of college, but if needed I will definitely take a year off to build up my resume - although I hope I get in the the first try. :]

Another question: I have ~100 hours at a nonprofit bird rescue. My advisor told me NOT to include this because its not relevant and the admissions would wonder why I'm not doing vet med. Even though I don't want to work with animals as a career, I enjoyed and value the time I spent volunteering there. Sould I put it in anyway?
Click to expand...

I think you should put it in. That is something unique about you and the med schools will want to see that you have unique passions and things you enjoy doing outside medicine. They may ask you why you aren't doing vet med, but it sounds like you have reasons, so you can just share those reasons with your interviewer if s/he asks.
 
yellowbird said:
Thanks everyone, I feel soo much better.
Unfortunately I do need to work; however, I'm looking into a summer reseach fellowship that would give me a little stipend. So at least that would me medically relevant and I could earn some much needed money. I really do love research and medicine so I'm really excited about all of the experience I'm planning for the rest of college.
However, horses are my passion and as long as I can keep my gpa above 3.8 I refuse to be coerced into cutting down my riding time! 🙂
I will apply to attend right out of college, but if needed I will definitely take a year off to build up my resume - although I hope I get in the the first try. :]

Another question: I have ~100 hours at a nonprofit bird rescue. My advisor told me NOT to include this because its not relevant and the admissions would wonder why I'm not doing vet med. Even though I don't want to work with animals as a career, I enjoyed and value the time I spent volunteering there. Sould I put it in anyway?
Click to expand...

yeah definitely keep the bird rescue info in; however, it would be remiss of me not to question (if I were on an admissions committee...and assuming you would not be applying MD/PhD) your lack of clinical experience. I would want to know how you could even imagine wanting to become a doctor if the closest thing you have to being near anything clinically related is horse crap. I definitely do not mean that in a degrading manner...I am just highlighting what would be a glaring deficiency in your application regardless of your grades and scores.
 
Beta Cell said:
Exactly. Out of curiosity, what do you think of the UF Premedical Advising?
Click to expand...

I don't think much of Mr. Kwong, but my Engineering advisor was excellent. In this bizarro world, that advisor, who was loved by all engineering students, was fired a few months ago for accessing(not sharing) some student's grades without permission....
 
She/he is probably just mad that you have the drive to do what she/he could not and now she/he is stuck at a job that she/he does not like. Bummer.
 
I love my adviser. I surely hope he is reading this.
 
yellowbird said:
My advisor told me NOT to include this because its not relevant and the admissions would wonder why I'm not doing vet med. Even though I don't want to work with animals as a career, I enjoyed and value the time I spent volunteering there. Sould I put it in anyway?
Click to expand...

You've got to be kidding, right? After seeing all that we have said about advisors in the posts above, which I've quoted below, you're still asking if you should listen to your advisor?! C'mon are you serious? 🙄



merimeri said:
Dont listen to your advisor. I stopped listening around sophomore year, I turned out fine.
Click to expand...

riceman04 said:
for the most part your advisor has demonstrated why she should NOT be an advisor, which surprisingly happens quite frequently.
Click to expand...

LastPolarBear said:
Don't listen to your adviser. With all these budget cuts schools need to do, I don't see why the pre med advisers weren't the first to go.
Click to expand...

ChiDO said:
My pre-med advisor opened up the student catalog where it broke down your schedule for all 4 years and read it to me when I asked when I should take classes since I was switching some of them up.

Needless to say, after being read out of the same book I already had and read, I never went back to him.
Click to expand...

njbmd said:
First of all, you are an adult and as such, you make your own decisions. You do not have to meet the approval of another adult in terms of what is the correct path for you life. Unless you are not able to manage your course load, your premed adviser was out of line and as such, ignore what doesn't work for you and move on.
Click to expand...

pharaoh88 said:
Ignore that advisor
Click to expand...

ILikeDrugs said:
I've been through 6 years of college/uni and I can say without hesitating that most "advisors" are idiots. They try to act as if they know what they're talking about but most do not.
Click to expand...

sandmanhere said:
Advisors dont know how to advise. Most of them know nothing about medical school and will only do more damage, scare you or could make you turn your head away from medicine by telling you nonsense about people she/he 'knows' that went to medical school or that wanted to go.
Click to expand...

JustDance said:
Don't let your advisor discourage you if going to med school is what you really want! GL!
Click to expand...

DrYoda said:
Your advisor doesn't know what she's talking about. It doesn't matter if your extra-curriculars are through the school or not.
Click to expand...

Stratego said:
I agree with the general dismissive tone directed at your advisor.
Click to expand...

How can you read all that and still not take your adviser's "advice" with a HUGE grain of salt?
 
Do not listen to your advisor. She will corrupt your brain, and I see she already partially has.
 
yellowbird said:
Another question: I have ~100 hours at a nonprofit bird rescue. My advisor told me NOT to include this because its not relevant and the admissions would wonder why I'm not doing vet med. Even though I don't want to work with animals as a career, I enjoyed and value the time I spent volunteering there. Sould I put it in anyway?
Click to expand...

Your advisor is right on this one. 100hrs in bird rescue on your med school application? Ad coms will definitely be wondering why you're not applying to vet school. You might have noble intentions but do you want to spend half your interview defending your bird rescue hobby when you can be talking about other parts of your application?

100hrs in a soup kitchen/homeless shelter is >>>> 100 hrs of bird rescue. You are going to be working with humans so start showing humanistic efforts there.
 
my advisor said I would never get in either.
 
My adviser told me I was mediocre and had no chance at an interview. As I sit here with two interviews, I really wish I could go tape copies of my invites all over her car. 😛

Know yourself and do the best you can. In the end, your adviser has nothing to do with your application.

Edit: Also, I think your bird rescue thing is perfectly valid. I did a lot of work with animals because I was a marine biology major before I was pre-med. My interviewers were very curious about my experiences, because they were different. Just be sure to have plenty of human interactions in your EC's too, and you'll be good. 🙂
 
It's common knowledge that pre-med advisers are idiots.

My own told me that I wouldn't even be taken seriously at my state school (I didn't ask and am not applying to my state school), but I've gotten three interview invites at top schools.
 
MegaProjectile said:
Your advisor is right on this one. 100hrs in bird rescue on your med school application? Ad coms will definitely be wondering why you're not applying to vet school. You might have noble intentions but do you want to spend half your interview defending your bird rescue hobby when you can be talking about other parts of your application?

100hrs in a soup kitchen/homeless shelter is >>>> 100 hrs of bird rescue. You are going to be working with humans so start showing humanistic efforts there.
Click to expand...

Why? If one feels strongly about a cause they should not worry about how it looks. I think med schools respect an array of charitable work. In other words; I don't think it will hurt the OP, and might even help a little, as long is there is medical related work as well.
 
chman said:
Why? If one feels strongly about a causes they should not worry about how it looks. I think med schools respect an array of charitable work. In other words; I don't think it will hurt the OP, an might even help a litlle.
Click to expand...

So far the OP's other volunteer activities besides bird rescue is scant. If you have 100hrs of animal volunteer work and only 20 hrs of human/doctor volunteer work, I will have to wonder where your focus lies.

It's ok to list other endeavors you are pursuing (aka bird rescue) since medical schools love diverse experience but it should be minimal and not overshadow your other medical or human volunteer work( doctor shadowing, soup kitchen, homeless shelter, research).

I'd only list my 100hrs of bird rescue if I can show the same level of commitment to medicine through shadowing and other experiences. Else I'll leave it out or play down the number.
 
yellowbird said:
Another question: I have ~100 hours at a nonprofit bird rescue. My advisor told me NOT to include this because its not relevant and the admissions would wonder why I'm not doing vet med. Even though I don't want to work with animals as a career, I enjoyed and value the time I spent volunteering there. Sould I put it in anyway?
Click to expand...

Overall, my situation was pretty similar to yours when I decided to pursue medicine. My resume was filled with many, non-medical things - work as a vet tech, time a server/cocktail waitress, volunteering a therapeutic riding center, theatre work, etc.

I took a good deal of flack for this from a couple of advisors about the lack of focus, but eventually I came out of it with some good advice: if your history isn't all about medicine, but you can explain how your experiences have benefited you and led you towards medicine, then they are worth including and talking about. In my PS, I talked about how my familiarity with veterinary medicine showed me how wrong that field was for me...and how my later hospital experience made me think that human medicine was a much better fit. That theme was brought up (favorably) in most of my interviews, and I think it gave an accurate picture of where I was coming from.

If you feel like you are doing what is right for you, and you meet all of the requirements for medical school admission (pre-reqs, having some clinical experience, etc), then trust yourself and keep doing what you are doing. In the end, your broad resume won't keep you out of medical school, but it may just keep you sane.
 
yellowbird said:
Another question: I have ~100 hours at a nonprofit bird rescue. My advisor told me NOT to include this because its not relevant and the admissions would wonder why I'm not doing vet med. Even though I don't want to work with animals as a career, I enjoyed and value the time I spent volunteering there. Sould I put it in anyway?
Click to expand...

Ugh, your advisor is so clueless. Sorry you wasted your time talking to her. Medical schools like people who are interesting, able to succeed academically and altruistic. Anything that adds to that is worth including even if it isn't specifically medically related. Yeah, you are going to need some medical volunteering, but the bird rescue and riding stuff is pretty cool and makes you seem like a unique applicant who is able to manage having a job and a demanding hobby while still doing well in school. That is good.
 
Priority 1: GPA
Priority 2: extracurrics

If you don't have the GPA you need, cut down on EC's until you do. In the end it'll be the GPA and MCAT that gets you an interview, not some horses.
 
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