failed pediatric boards - looking for study partner and advice

Hi,

I was in your shoes a year ago. I know how you feel. It's disappointing and embarrasing. My ego took a huge beating after having failed the test. First, you should know that a lot of great pediatricians failed the test. It has no reflection on your ability to be a doctor. I still am the same doc after having passed the test. My clinical judgements are not any different now than a year ago despite me being a "certified" pediatrician.

First, do a search on this forum. There were quite a few posts from last year from people who failed. Next, examine your subtest scores and determine which areas are your weakest, then study those sections like crazy. I pretty much started to study at this time last year. It was overkill definitely but I did not want to retake this test again (not every year anyway). I passed with a score of 2 standard deviations over the mean. Anyway, I didn't study much the first time and only did a few Prep questions. The second time around, I did 6 years of prep questions and read the explanations, I did MedStudy (books and CD-the CD questions were really hard-but good!), and I also read over Laughing your Way TWICE. I really liked Laugh your Way. I think that's all you need, the Laughing book and the Prep questions.

Anyway, it's a test you have to take seriously, because it's darn hard. You will do great next year!

ped2be said:

Unfortunately, I didn't pass the peds boards. So, I'm looking for the following:

a) advice from anyone would like to give me constructive ideas.
b) advice from anyone who failed in the past, came up with an effective game plan, and passed.
c) a study partner, who although is probably depressed due to the their score, can put the emotions aside and begin to study with a structured plan, and commit a lot of time - immediately (or at least in the next week or two).
d) any good deals on review books, beside (the Laugh Your Way to Passing the Pediatric Boards series).

4) maybe a therapist

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Hey, sorry to hear about not passing. It would be helpful to know how/what you studied the first time around so that we can give you better advice for passing the 2nd time.

I did medstudy all 4 volumes and the cd, breezed through zitelli but still unsuccessful. When we talk about zitelli, is it cover to cover readind or just looking at pictures

Hi

Are you still looking for a study partner because I am looking for one too. Let me know your thoughts

(my caveat to everything I'm going to say....I know that people learn/study many different ways...this is just what worked for me).

For me, I decided to study for the peds boards using the same general methods I'd used to study for Steps 1-3, and it ended up working out well for me. For Steps 1-3, and for the peds boards, I bought one big general review book (Laughing your Way for peds), and did questions (PREP for peds). I started studying casually over the summer, and had read through about 1/2 of LYW by the time I started really studying at the end of August.

Once I started my real studying, I put in about 20 hours a week from the end of August until the end of October. I really focused on the PREP questions. I would do a year at a time, then go through the explanations question by question. After reading through each question's explanation, I would re-read the corresponding section in LYW, and add any info from the PREP questions/explanations to LYW that wasn't already in the book (this ended up being a LOT of info written in the book's margins; LYW is great but it is definitely lacking details in certain sections, and it is missing many topics/diseases/conditions altogether). By doing this, I was making LYW into a comprehensive review book that included all relevant PREP information from the questions. And in the process, I learned more because I've always been someone who learns by doing (so for me, this was by forcing myself to re-write the relevant info from PREP into LYW).

This all took a LONG time...but I think it was more productive than just doing questions and reading the answers/explanations. It forced me to really learn the material. So anyways, I did this for the last 3 years of PREP questions (about 450 questions total). And after doing 3 years, I'd essentially read through (and marked up/highlighted/added into to) most of LYW.

By this point, it was about a week before the boards. I then read through LYW again (my marked-up version of it). On this read-through, I had a big stack of paper next to me, and I wrote out the most important concepts/stats/milestones/buzzwords/etc on this paper. I think after going through the whole book I had about 40-50 pages of stuff. These pages were what I focused on and looked through the last day before the exam, in addition to looking through the pictures in Zitelli. I know people say not to study the day before the exam, but that's what I've always done and it's always worked out fine for me.

You mentioned that you did 3 years of PREP questions last year, so in your case I'd recommend doing 5 years (isn't it true that you cover essentially 100% of the basic PREP curriculum by doing 5 years?). In addition to the 3 years you already did, you could go back 1 additional year, and also add the 2009 questions. I think that reviewing the answers & explanations from the PREP questions is very important, and would probably spend a good amount of your time on this. If you're committed to starting now and putting in about 5 hours a week, you could probably be done with 5 years of PREP questions by next fall, and then spend 2 months intensively reviewing everything you've learned.

I did PREP mainly and a little bit of medstudy. I did not have time at all, so I ended up using Medstudy just as a reference when I wasn't sure about something - which is NOT the way to use Medstudy! I know lots of pple who read all 4 medstudy books cover to cover. I unfortunately was/am in a very busy fellowship and did not have the time for that. I only studied for like 4 weeks.

So I just did the last 4 years of PREP, studying both the right answers and reading around the wrong answers. This made it very tedious, of course. I studied for 4 weeks. I had asked for vacation for the 2 weeks before the boards and I studied like no man's business in those 2 weeks. I could have been living in my PREP CD. I would wake up early and do NOTHING all day except for the PREP questions. I only showered, went to the gym or slept, if I needed to cool my head from the studying - there were no planned activities. I ate while doing questions. I was pretty much a zombie.

What I wish I couldve done:
All of Medstudy's 4 books cover to cover
Looked at Zitelli pictures like everyone else

The day before the exam, my friend and I crammed vaccine schedules (in great detail e.g.. catching up) and developmental milestones, (in great detail - walking forward, walking backward, pointing, shoelaces, dressing, undressing, triangle, square, tower of blocks, etc - the whole shebang).....My advice on vaccines and milestones is dont waste any time trying to study them BEFORE the night before the exam. You will forget stuff. Of course we all know when kids walk or babble. But the tiny details are harder to remember. Ok lemme rephrase.....you need to know "about" the vaccines ahead of time, but save the complex scheduling details for the end. Same thing with milestones. For instance, you need to understand the Denver ahead of time, but save the complex milestones for the end. Because it will take longer to attempt to commit everything to longterm memory upfront. So just commit them to short-term memory on the night before the exam.

It actually was a lot of fun for my friend and I cramming the milestones. We were acting out stuff and being goofy. At that point (5pm 10/26/08), there was no point in being unduly serious. The deed was done! So we joked and crammed. And some of the jokes helped me remember stuff in the exam!!!!


So......thats the story of how I passed the pediatric boards. Crazy but true. A lot of questions I was able to answer with my so-called "residual knowledge".....i.e. not stuff that I studied prior to the boards, but just information stored somewhere in my brain from reading/activities of years ago, including medical school, residency, fellowship, master's.

I also prayed like hell, no pun intended....

I got an e-mail from the people who publish LYW...they have question books as well (volumes 1 & 2):
http://www.passtheboards.com/qanda_book.html
http://www.passtheboards.com/qanda_book_vol2.php

And a picture book:
http://www.passtheboards.com/picturebook.html

It sounds like these are all newly updated.

KidDr said:

I got an e-mail from the people who publish LYW...they have question books as well (volumes 1 & 2):
http://www.passtheboards.com/qanda_book.html
http://www.passtheboards.com/qanda_book_vol2.php

And a picture book:
http://www.passtheboards.com/picturebook.html

It sounds like these are all newly updated.
Anyone have any input on these? I'm curious because one issue I raised above is that the PREP questions and the questions on the actual exam were quite different (in format, not necessarily in content). I'd be curious if the LYW questions are more similar to the actual exam questions (in both content & format). If so, that would give ped2be (and others) another question source (in addition to PREP) to study.

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I went through the 2 question books. The picture book was not yet published when I took the boards. I thought the question books were great practice and helped to solidify the material in the main text. It forced you to learn and memorize normal labs, normal blood gases, common side effects of chemo drugs, and names of the vitamins. It helped me get the subtleties of lab values, and purposely asked you borderline questions so you can have that cut-off memorized. Was it anything like the boards? Well maybe the second book, having some vignette based questions as well as those one sentence deals. I used them though, like PREP, strictly as learning material and not so much as a self-assessment tool. I'd recommend them. The picture book looked good when I saw it online (I'm a pretty visual learner), and I might buy that when I study for recerts.

Bernardo_11 said:

I went through the 2 question books. The picture book was not yet published when I took the boards. I thought the question books were great practice and helped to solidify the material in the main text. It forced you to learn and memorize normal labs, normal blood gases, common side effects of chemo drugs, and names of the vitamins. It helped me get the subtleties of lab values, and purposely asked you borderline questions so you can have that cut-off memorized. Was it anything like the boards? Well maybe the second book, having some vignette based questions as well as those one sentence deals. I used them though, like PREP, strictly as learning material and not so much as a self-assessment tool. I'd recommend them. The picture book looked good when I saw it online (I'm a pretty visual learner), and I might buy that when I study for recerts.

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i love your signature line....just 1 or 143,967 random facts I memorized for the boards...95% of which I've since forgotten!

KidDr said:

i love your signature line....just 1 or 143,967 random facts I memorized for the boards...95% of which I've since forgotten!

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This happens to be one of those obsucre facts I remembered when doing PREP questions with some of my classmates. In order to get thhis one question right, you had to know that concept. I had such a "Are you friggin serious?!?!" reaction that this little factoid will stick with me forever. One day, I'm going to make this a T-shirt- "Goat's milk has no folate"... that and "Clinda tastes like vomit."

Does anyone have any suggestions of good board review courses? I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or experiences about the med study live action board review course and the their board review books?

Hey Shirt, i liked your response. I am scheduled to take my boards in 5 weeks. You think you can give me inside tips on the exam day what to do and what not to?.. Thanks

Hey Calnvdoc, this isnt answering your question but just an opinion.. i bought the UCLA cd set and text and it was aight but i dont think it helps me in answering anything in the prep or in other q banks.. it is too text like, Laughing your way seems to be very good and this other review book and q bank from the guy in mount sanai.. i havent read the mount sanai material or done the q books though.. but it might be worth checking out.. My guess is that you are taking the boards with me.. GOODLUCK MEN!

I'm taking it again. Missed by a little bit last year.

This year, the main difference is, in addition to the PREP questions, I did the 200 question sample exam from the New Orleans board review course.

I'm also paying a LOT more attention to pictures, as I think that was my undoing last year. I expected at least SOME vignette to go with the picture section. As it is now, its easy points if you know the pictures. I bought the LYW picture book, its pretty good.

The other thing I did is go over LYW in a very specific format...any time they hinted at a possible question on the test, i put a big Q next to it and highlighted it (as a side effect, I ended up going through the entire book 1 1/2 times).

I am then going to open up microsoft word, and go to every q and semi formulate a bullet point question and answer, in order to train my mind to "think like the test." Previous test takers have said that the LYW book is pretty on the money.

And to add a completely bitter note, anyone know why the ABIM pass rate is low to mid 90's while peds is closer to 80? Total BS

How much should you be scoring on the Pediatric PREP CD questions (from AAP) to safely pass the exams?

Thanks

Bosentan said:

How much should you be scoring on the Pediatric PREP CD questions (from AAP) to safely pass the exams?

Thanks

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Aim for a 70% on PREP and you should be fine. I had room to spare, and thought those questions were reasonably representative of what came up on the Boards. Remember to read the entire explanation offered. Often they will repeat a question stem but change a few words, making the answer different.

Re: the ABIM pass rate being in the 90s--I hear 'ya! My internal medicine friends are in disbelief regarding the low pass rate for the peds boards. Oh well, not much we can do about it other than give it our best shot.

Good luck to everyone taking the test next week! I, for one, can't wait to put this test behind me and get on with my life...

I am retaking this exam *sigh* this year.

Have been trying to find the "ideal" source for developmental milestones - Zitelli's don't match up with other references (board review course notes, PREP reference, Denver assessment). I know the Denver is supposedly *the* reference, but how does one use it? Baby Nelson has a chart of the Denver but milestones are listed as a continuum. Do you consider the milestone as accomplished if the vertical age line crosses it at 75 %ile or at 90 %ile? Or only if all kids are expected to have achieved the milestone at that age?


In the spirit of helping out others here are a couple of things I've learned in the past:
1) When you open the test booklet, see what the last few questions are like - if they are matching questions or 2-3 questions per vignette, think about doing them first. For me, I need to concentrate more/think harder for these types of questions and thus might freak out if faced with matching questions with the test about to end in a few minutes.

2) For 2x2 tables for stats questions: add the top row numbers then the bottom row numbers. This should equal n=the number of people in the population being studied. Now add the left column to the right column. This total shold also equal n. If not, your table is set-up incorrectly and calculations for sensitivity, specificity, PPV, NPV will be incorrect.

Good Luck to all!!

poopologist said:

In the spirit of helping out others here are a couple of things I've learned in the past:
1) When you open the test booklet, see what the last few questions are like - if they are matching questions or 2-3 questions per vignette, think about doing them first. For me, I need to concentrate more/think harder for these types of questions and thus might freak out if faced with matching questions with the test about to end in a few minutes.

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+1000000000000000000 to this.

I was in a complete PANIC last year when the last 15 or so questions came up. Nobody told me about this. I just assumed the test would be like the USMLE's..single best answer. When I saw LEAST CORRECT and matching i was like WTF.

kickazzz2000 said:

+1000000000000000000 to this.

I was in a complete PANIC last year when the last 15 or so questions came up. Nobody told me about this. I just assumed the test would be like the USMLE's..single best answer. When I saw LEAST CORRECT and matching i was like WTF.

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Do huh? The packet that i received said single best answer...plus PREP has always just been single best answer! Is this different now that it is only a 1 day exam?

there are no "k-type" questions like a.1,2,3,4 ae correct b. 1 and 2 are correct, c. 2 and 4 are correct etc. But you can be given a list on the right and a list on the left and asked to match them up. And the test is still is single best answer ie each question has 1 preferred response.

Hi,

In the spirit of giving back, wanted to share how I passed the boards the 2nd time around. First time, I did not study at all, did some PREP questions the week before in bed, but wasn't serious at all; thought I'd be able to pass but wasn't shocked when I didn't.

This time around, I started studying at night about 6-8weeks before hand for a couple of hours a day. I bought Laughing your way... based on some of the comments I read here on the forum and honestly, that book and 4 years of PREP questions are why I passed the boards (and actually did very well).

I read 1-2 chapters of laughing your way a day followed by PREP questions from the relevant specialty area to cement the information in. Two weeks prior to the Boards, I took time off and studied for about 8 hours a day doing PREP questions and then rereading 4 chapters per day of Laughing...

The night before my exam, my husband tested me on developmental milestones and immunizations using Laughing and the green current peds diagnosis book. That was incredibly helpful. I also looked through Zitelli's page by page that day but got tired and stopped. I completely regretted iduring the boards when I saw similar pictures...

So in summary, read Laughing your way 2ice, 4 years of prep questions 1ce, flipped through one tenth of Zitelli's.

As far as the material review is concerned is using baby Nelson adequate or is medstudy recommended. I was confused between using the prep curriculum material, big Nelson. I need one main study book with all the material. I was not able to focus on several sources. Please advice.

I am also desparately looking for a study partner send me a private text.

I am so upset, I don't know what to do different this time. I dont want to have to go thru this again. Anybody who has failed the boards living in dallas? need a study partner

To the folks who did not pass the Boards this year:
I feel your pain (trust me, I really do... was in your shoes more times than I care to mention).

People who passed the Boards after repeat attempts all have different formulas as to what eventually helped them pass. From my own personal experience, and from talking to others who did not pass the first time(s), here is what I found helpful:

1. PREP questions - do as many as you can get your hands on - past 10 years if possible. Some of the older questions get outdated (ie syrup of ipecac) but some of the critiques for older questions are very helpful, especially developmental milestone questions. Occasionally some questions get repeated nearly verbatim. Make sure you do at least the past 5 years questions, including the set for the year in which you take the exam.

2. Medstudy/Pedstudy: you have to take this course - it is absolutely awesome. If you are the textbook reading types then buy the course books arranged by subspecialty (4 or 5 books total). For me, I needed to have one source of info that I could know well, instead of multiple "best sources" for multiple topics. I attended another course besides Pedstudy and it was not as good, despite being a long-running well-reputed course (hint: it was near the White House). Pedstudy does not cover developmental milestones very well, but that is easily looked up in Zitelli or from PREP question critiques. Don't blow off development. I bought the 3 volumes of Pedstudy questions on CD and barely touched them.

3. Zitelli - cover a few chapters daily starting 1 month before the exam. Don't read the text, just flip through pictures. Repeat. Then do it again. There are pics on the exam that are literally straight out of Zitelli's. Make sure you review the Derm pics until you dream about them.

4. Take time off before the exam: go part-time for a few months or take 2-4 weeks off before the test, whatever you can swing with your employer/boss. You must be in "the zone" at test time - not worrying about patients/call schedules/charting/billing etc.

I did not like Laughing Your Way... it was sparse on details, the memory tricks were often inane and didn't really help. I read it once (maybe twice) and did get some useful things from it, but would not tell anyone to use it as their sole source of info. I cracked open Big Nelson once to look up a table.

And get ready to spend some $. These books/courses etc cost money, but having to take the test yet again if you fail again will cost even more.

Its okay to mope about for a few days, but its essential to figure out what you will do differently next year. And focus on how terrific it will feel when you do pass, and how absolutely awesome things will be when that happens!

Good luck!

does anyone know anything about Challenger peds ?? They so call guarantee your passing score.

The challen. course is expensive, but not as useful.
I am still outraged by the low pass rate of the peds boards .
You guys can definitely ask for some feedback and explanantion from :
Linda Althouse at the American Board of Pediatrics.
They are definitely not in touch with us, the frustrated pediatricians, who have families/ fellowships etc and deal with this low low pass rate of 76%
look at the recent years.
For all you medical students out there, watch out for what you wish for, you have to deal with low pass rate and limited attempts ( started in 2009 or back to residency w/in 7 yrs)
I would definitely consider I.M - higher pass rate of 92.2% ( also need to pass w/in 7 yrs).
When I called the ABP and asked them about that they had no explanation and no clue why other primary specialties have higher pass rate.
Does anyone have an idea?
I do regret choosing this field, as much as I love this field, the leadership is in such disconnect and after all I have bills to pay just like anyother job.

the actual pass rate is lower than that it is about 76%.
No the ABP has no explanation and no standarts.
The oldfolks have been grandfathered in although didn't open a book in over 20 yrs, but yet the answer that we get is " we owe these standrads to the public" can somebody tell me how?
Those "grandfathered in" pediatricians are still practicing pediatrics and serving the public.
How can the ABP be so sure about their competency? anfd for us 76% pass rate, lower than 78% that was in the year 2005 .

energy said:

As far as the material review is concerned is using baby Nelson adequate or is medstudy recommended.

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I would not rely on the "baby Nelson", at least not the recent revision. Very disappointing book.

The combination of sources mentioned in an earlier post on this thread makes sense.

@oldbearprofessor: thanks for your post. I personally was not aware of this tussle between the ABP and Lifers. The Lifers I met have almost always been the kind of people who I would want taking car of my kids, so apart form being very envious (because technically Lifers do not have to take Boards ever again!), I myself have no angst against Lifers.


Maybe its the cynic in me, but it should be noted that the so-called ethical indignation on the ABP's part comes at a cost... to you and me and everybody. Each exam fee is now approaching $2000.


I bet they're pretty pissed that there are a bunch of people running around who they think should be ponying up that cash.


I wonder what salaries are like at the ABP? Does it really cost ~$2000 to administer a Board exam (especially the ones that are on computer like the specialty certs)? I dare the ABP to have a third party verify the actual cost of exam adminstration and publicize the results. And pigs might fly...

Did you guys find Medstudy for pediatrics helpful? Mainly the curriculum books or the DVDs? Also, know of any good course reviews? Are the UCLA or Cleveland clinic reviews good?

Thanks in advance!

Hey, everyone.

I'm looking to buy MedStudy Core Curriculum books used (but with minimal to no highlighting or writing in it).

Anyone????

Thanks!

Hello
does anyone have any strategies for group study? Not sure how to organize a study group- what source to use to get common topics to break up and present with several people...
thanks.

I have failed the peds boards twice now. Each time I tried something new. First time, I was right out of training, studied 5 years of prep Qs and first aid, and zitelli's pictures. Definately not enough. Last year I did the UCLA Peds Board review DVDs. Thought the lectures were good, but was lacking a LOT of information, for example didnt even touch on certain sports medicine injuries that were on the real test. I had also done 5 years of prep Qs again, and used first aid just as a aid. I really thought I had better grasp of everything. But I guess it wasnt what was best for me.
Now I feel lost. I have looked though this forum and looked through a lot of other websites, tried calling the abp for sugestions..
I am in practice now and need advice on material that will really work for me. I am definately a visual learner.
Im thinking of getting the Laughing your Way material and the MedStudy questions. Im wondering if a review course will help and which one.
Hope some of you can help me.
Thanks.

Hi,

this is my second time around, but I feel Medstudy curriculum and LYB book and q bank is pretty good along with last 5 yrs of prep. there were a lot of stuff that came from LYB and medstudy has some highlighted material which is very good.

I am selling my 2nd edition curriculum books (hardly used at all) for $200. Email me for more info.

It is the Medstudy curriculum books and how many of them, what year ?I am interested in buying them if are not they highlighted?

energy said:

Hi,

this is my second time around, but I feel Medstudy curriculum and LYB book and q bank is pretty good along with last 5 yrs of prep. there were a lot of stuff that came from LYB and medstudy has some highlighted material which is very good.

Click to expand...

So did you use LYW book and medstudy the last time you took the boards? I just purchased both. The good thing is the Medstudy seems to be just updated a few months ago is what they told me. I also got the questions from medstudy for 2010. There are about 500 or so, if I get throught them and prep.. maybe i'll to last years questions from medstudy.
This whole thing is overwhelming. I just want to use what seems to be the most helpful for most people. I guess everyone is different.
Are you taking a live lecture this time? Im thinking of not... Ive never been a audio learner.. and a month before the exam will just stress me out. But still deciding.
Well.. I wish the best of luck to you..
Hope we both make it this time.

I have taken the peds boards twice and scored 400 both times. Pretty depressed about it but would love a study partner and am willing to commit time and energy. Anyway we can talk in private as I feel pretty humiliated? I only just joined this network and am unsure how it works.

Hello Ruralpedsdoc,

I failed it twice...both times, did 5 years of PREP and MedStudy Question Book and , but did not do those that thoroughly. Last year, attended the MedStudy review course for the first time and read the highllights of the MedStudy review books also on top of the Qs. I don't know what to do this time... Should I do all the content specs? Get LWY book? Do 8 years of PREP really thoroughly this time? Read MedStudy books cover to cover? Thinking about getting MP3 audio to listen to every day without wasting time when I walk my dog, go to work and work out also! Starting to panic since I haven't really done much because of the fear-induced procrastination and busy life. Does anyone need a study partner in NYC?!?!

Anyone selling gently used Prep materials?

Hello shane_doc,

I have 2003 and 2004 PREP. All (3) texts + CD in perfect condition. Feel free to PM me with further questions.

hi
would you like to have a phone study session every day for 1 hour to discuss questions?