for those who want residency reform

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turquoiseblue said:
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i worked at other hospitals and it was so much better...nothing like this hospital i was at...
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Every place is different, but honestly some people have to suffer through not so benign places to get to their goal. With the red flags of having been dropped from other residency programs, I think it's conceivable that if you land something else it too will not be a dream residency, but something which will require a very thick skin and very hard work. Forget about who won't go to lunch with you, who stabbed you in the back, or about who wants you to stay past night float times. That's over. You aren't there to socialize and you are going to be losing a lot of sleep. There are programs out there where interns are very much loners, and where the duty hour restrictions are sometimes not well adhered to. That doesn't mean you can't get to your goal through such a path. Just that you will need to be very thick skinned, very efficient, be prepared to be sleep deprived and unappreciated. It's not fair, but guess what, most interns experience some components of this even in benign programs.

I also have to say that whenever I read a post who claims to be totally blameless but gets screwed over by multiple people at multiple programs, I feel like there's another side to the story. Some amount of introspection may be required here. At any rate figure out what you can do to get YOUR career back on track. Forget about the past. Forget about trying to get folks to rally behind you. Just take it step by step and figure out what you need to do to get back into a residency, and then be able to thrive there despite the fact that it's pretty surely not going to be a warm fuzzy nurturing environment if it's someplace that gives discarded residents second chances. Good luck.
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Recommend definitely passing Step 3. If the resident had low scores on step 1/2 then some PD's will often have lingering doubts if he/she can pass Step III. Not passing Step III makes the program itself look bad, as does a resident not passing the subspecialty boards upon finishing (such as not passing IM or fp boards). Therefore, programs shy away from taking residents or students who failed a step or have generally very low/barely passing Step 1 or 2 scores.

Probably you were at not very good residency programs, having had low Step scores and being from a foreign school. It will be very very hard to get a new residency in your position. Some fired residents get a new one, but I suspect they were mostly US trained and a lot had good or at least decent board scores. I know someone who got terminated and got another residency, but she went to a US school and had crazy high USMLE scores.

I think your best bet is to switch specialties. You can spin it as that you may have been a bad fit for the specialty you were in. Also you need to acknowledge your part in what happened. Even if you don't feel a lot of it was your fault, I'm sure your rxn to things didn't help - for example, many interns get frustrated and are overworked and pretty much get dumped on, and other people act irritable, so you have to find a way to constructively deal with that, which usually involves just concentrating on the patient care stuff, not letting people provoke you, eat and drink enough while on call, find strategies to help yourself be more efficient and get stuff done, destress w/friends and family and exercise, etc. The new program has to have a reasonable expectation that things will be different, that you can get along with other people. Also, if you didn't get along w/patients for any reason that would be a big red flag, so you need to make sure your bedside manner is up to snuff - sometimes we intend to be nice but came come across as tired, too inpatient, or that we don't give the patient enough attention (they'll ALWAYS want more, but there's somewhat of an art to making them feel cared about while not spending an hour per patient prerounding).

I agree with APD. I feel that maybe ACMGE needs to have some sort of committee that fired residents can appeal to - however, it's going to be difficult for outsiders to intrude on the hiring/firing in residencies. Often the residents do have deficiencies, but I think a lot of them might do better either in another specialty and/or just in another program.

I do think that we should consider limiting visas for non US citizens to come here and train. It seems nonsensical for us to do what we've been doing for years. Few or no other countries would exclude their own citizens from jobs and bring in a lot of people from other countries to do the work. If we really didn't have enough perm. residents and US citizens to fill the jobs that would be another thing. Most of the foreign people are very smart and I admire their being able to pass USMLE, as for many of them English is not their first language, but I'm just not sure they should be taking residency spots that could be filled w/US citizens.

I also think some of the Caribbean schools should be shut down because they just aren't any good, and aren't preparing their students well enough to practice.
 
dragonfly99 said:
Recommend definitely passing Step 3. If the resident had low scores on step 1/2 then some PD's will often have lingering doubts if he/she can pass Step III. Not passing Step III makes the program itself look bad, as does a resident not passing the subspecialty boards upon finishing (such as not passing IM or fp boards). Therefore, programs shy away from taking residents or students who failed a step or have generally very low/barely passing Step 1 or 2 scores.

Probably you were at not very good residency programs, having had low Step scores and being from a foreign school. It will be very very hard to get a new residency in your position. Some fired residents get a new one, but I suspect they were mostly US trained and a lot had good or at least decent board scores. I know someone who got terminated and got another residency, but she went to a US school and had crazy high USMLE scores.

I think your best bet is to switch specialties. You can spin it as that you may have been a bad fit for the specialty you were in. Also you need to acknowledge your part in what happened. Even if you don't feel a lot of it was your fault, I'm sure your rxn to things didn't help - for example, many interns get frustrated and are overworked and pretty much get dumped on, and other people act irritable, so you have to find a way to constructively deal with that, which usually involves just concentrating on the patient care stuff, not letting people provoke you, eat and drink enough while on call, find strategies to help yourself be more efficient and get stuff done, destress w/friends and family and exercise, etc. The new program has to have a reasonable expectation that things will be different, that you can get along with other people. Also, if you didn't get along w/patients for any reason that would be a big red flag, so you need to make sure your bedside manner is up to snuff - sometimes we intend to be nice but came come across as tired, too inpatient, or that we don't give the patient enough attention (they'll ALWAYS want more, but there's somewhat of an art to making them feel cared about while not spending an hour per patient prerounding).

I agree with APD. I feel that maybe ACMGE needs to have some sort of committee that fired residents can appeal to - however, it's going to be difficult for outsiders to intrude on the hiring/firing in residencies. Often the residents do have deficiencies, but I think a lot of them might do better either in another specialty and/or just in another program.

I do think that we should consider limiting visas for non US citizens to come here and train. It seems nonsensical for us to do what we've been doing for years. Few or no other countries would exclude their own citizens from jobs and bring in a lot of people from other countries to do the work. If we really didn't have enough perm. residents and US citizens to fill the jobs that would be another thing. Most of the foreign people are very smart and I admire their being able to pass USMLE, as for many of them English is not their first language, but I'm just not sure they should be taking residency spots that could be filled w/US citizens.

I also think some of the Caribbean schools should be shut down because they just aren't any good, and aren't preparing their students well enough to practice.
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I have mixed feelings about limiting visas. I like the system working on the principle that the best applicant gets the job. If grads from US schools start having trouble finding spots, thats a whole different matter and I would be all in favor of limiting Visas. There will always be a few US grads who don't match due to just being extremely poor applicants, and I'm fine with that. But if we start to see reasonably qualified applicants not match, well then it would be time for reform. I don't think that is the case yet, although we may be heading that way. To me its fine for all FMG's to have to let their scores/grades/evaluations be what gets them in the door, whether they are citizens or not.
 
odieoh said:
I have mixed feelings about limiting visas. I like the system working on the principle that the best applicant gets the job. If grads from US schools start having trouble finding spots, thats a whole different matter and I would be all in favor of limiting Visas. There will always be a few US grads who don't match due to just being extremely poor applicants, and I'm fine with that. But if we start to see reasonably qualified applicants not match, well then it would be time for reform. I don't think that is the case yet, although we may be heading that way. To me its fine for all FMG's to have to let their scores/grades/evaluations be what gets them in the door, whether they are citizens or not.
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Here are the facts:
If you take a look at the NRMP tables (page 9 http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf) you will see that there were 1078 unmatched US seniors and with 2881 matched non-US citizen FMG's, so you can see that quite a few US grads are not getting chosen, as well as 1946 US citizen IMG's. Overall, there was a total of 5907 US citizens whether FMG or US grad were not matched--way more than there are scramble spots. It could be fair or unfair...depending on how you look at it. I do think these US grads should have gotten the spots. That is a lot of leftover US grads. Are they that bad to not get a spot? but i thought the rule was to prefer US grads over FMG's? apparently not.
 
turquoiseblue said:
Here are the facts:
If you take a look at the NRMP tables (page 9 http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf) you will see that there were 1078 unmatched US seniors and with 2881 matched non-US citizen FMG's, so you can see that quite a few US grads are not getting chosen, as well as 1946 US citizen IMG's. Overall, there was a total of 5907 US citizens whether FMG or US grad were not matched--way more than there are scramble spots. It could be fair or unfair...depending on how you look at it. I do think these US grads should have gotten the spots. That is a lot of leftover US grads. Are they that bad to not get a spot? but i thought the rule was to prefer US grads over FMG's? apparently not.
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What rule are you talking about? I'm still not convinced we are at the point that something needs to be legislated. The % of unmatched seniors has held steady at 5-6% over the time period shown in that info. I know that 1078 sounds like a whole lot of people but without knowing the individual circumstances of each one it doesn't mean anything.

I take myself for an example. My first round through the match I went unmatched. I was trying for ophthalmology which was fairly competitive, and did not get a spot. Did I lose my spot to a FMG? Well hard to say, but likely not. I likely would have had no problem securing a spot in a primary care slot, but I wanted to do ophthalmology. So I did a year of research and reapplied and matched.

So for my graduation year I was one of the 1,000 or so who didn't match but I would not consider myself ever having been in danger of not getting SOME type of residency. Many of those 1078 have similar stories, or were people who applied too narrowly, etc etc etc, all very fixable things.

So the 1078 number tells us very little, more meaningful data would be how many US grads NEVER get a residency. If you were to look at those people and then go over their applications, I'm sure that in the majority if not all, there would be serious red flags.

Point being, it aint broke yet, or at least I don't see hard data supporting that it is.
 
odieoh said:
I take myself for an example. My first round through the match I went unmatched. I was trying for ophthalmology which was fairly competitive, and did not get a spot. Did I lose my spot to a FMG? Well hard to say, but likely not. I likely would have had no problem securing a spot in a primary care slot, but I wanted to do ophthalmology. So I did a year of research and reapplied and matched.
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I second this statement. The really important number, in my opinion, would be the number of unmatched US applicants to specialties that didn't fill. I'm an EM resident and while not as competitive as ophtho, we had 8 open spots in the nation last year. All of those filled within hours of the scramble (one of my friends ended up in one...) I have a suspicion that this number would be low.

If one can't make the cut in a certain specialty, we shouldn't subsidize mediocrity. I know we do it in just about every other aspect of this country, but in medicine one has to be the best. The FMGs that are getting spots in the competitive specialties are not just average applicants. They tend to be rock stars with 99/99 on the boards and a couple of publications. Many that I know actually had independent practices before coming here. I know that this is a generalization and doesn't apply to every FMG, but if I had to choose from an FMG who was clinically better than a domestic grad for me and my family, I'd choose the FMG in a second.
 
ccfccp said:
I second this statement. The really important number, in my opinion, would be the number of unmatched US applicants to specialties that didn't fill. I'm an EM resident and while not as competitive as ophtho, we had 8 open spots in the nation last year. All of those filled within hours of the scramble (one of my friends ended up in one...) I have a suspicion that this number would be low.

If one can't make the cut in a certain specialty, we shouldn't subsidize mediocrity. I know we do it in just about every other aspect of this country, but in medicine one has to be the best. The FMGs that are getting spots in the competitive specialties are not just average applicants. They tend to be rock stars with 99/99 on the boards and a couple of publications. Many that I know actually had independent practices before coming here. I know that this is a generalization and doesn't apply to every FMG, but if I had to choose from an FMG who was clinically better than a domestic grad for me and my family, I'd choose the FMG in a second.
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Well, I don't quite agree with your preference in the process of selecting a trainee. Remember , the matching process is to select a candidate for training not an independent medical provider. If someone eg FMGs are someone who are already an attending /independent physician back home , of course they will rock the steps and be clinically better than those freshly graduated eg us medical grads. I don't see the selecting process is fair in this aspect.
On the other hand, it is different story when choosing more than competent medical provider in the market.
 
What really blows my mind is that turquoiseblue still thinks she has a shot at residency again. Her chances are infinitesimally small. Being FMG, getting fired from one, and then quitting another will do that to you. The fact that you've gone unmatched for like the past 3 years should tell you something. If I were turquoiseblue, I would be spending my time looking at non-clinical opportunities like pharm or device sales or something completely out of medicine instead of continuing to waste time and money on a futile endeavor.

Just accept the fact that you're not meant to be a practicing physician. Move on, girl. He's just not that into you. Etc.
 
Taurus said:
What really blows my mind is that turquoiseblue still thinks she has a shot at residency again. Her chances are infinitesimally small. Being FMG, getting fired from one, and then quitting another will do that to you. The fact that you've gone unmatched for like the past 3 years should tell you something. If I were turquoiseblue, I would be spending my time looking at non-clinical opportunities like pharm or device sales or something completely out of medicine instead of continuing to waste time and money on a futile endeavor.

Just accept the fact that you're not meant to be a practicing physician. Move on, girl. He's just not that into you. Etc.
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well if there were such thing as viable nonclinical things to do i would do them, but i can't find any of those. trust me i have tried to look for them and apply for them far and wide but i never hear back. let me know how to get those jobs if you know, because i sure don't. i can get licensed though combining my years.....so i'll probably go with that....and i'll apply to residency yet still, because i haven't been out of my last program long--only a year...maybe a few more years and i'll give up but not right now.
 
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a video on dismissals and the anatomy of malignant programs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq4maBFA1pw

it shows that there were 280 dismissed in 2008 ...there's that magic 200 again..:D i don't know where he got it from though, but you can see the chart on the video.

i wonder if it is only certain programs that dismiss residents, while normal programs don't do that very much. it would be interesting if a study could be done on that.

that's what i mean by reform of residency, so that this type of thing won't happen.
 
turquoiseblue said:
a video on dismissals and the anatomy of malignant programs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq4maBFA1pw

it shows that there were 280 dismissed in 2008 ...there's that magic 200 again..:D i don't know where he got it from though, but you can see the chart on the video.

i wonder if it is only certain programs that dismiss residents, while normal programs don't do that very much. it would be interesting if a study could be done on that.

that's what i mean by reform of residency, so that this type of thing won't happen.
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For someone who claims to have authored several papers, I'm surprised you don't know that youtube can't be cited as a source.
 
Cerberus said:
For someone who claims to have authored several papers, I'm surprised you don't know that youtube can't be cited as a source.
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im surprised you didn't know that i already know that.
 
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turquoiseblue said:
a video on dismissals and the anatomy of malignant programs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq4maBFA1pw

it shows that there were 280 dismissed in 2008 ...there's that magic 200 again..:D i don't know where he got it from though, but you can see the chart on the video.

i wonder if it is only certain programs that dismiss residents, while normal programs don't do that very much. it would be interesting if a study could be done on that.

that's what i mean by reform of residency, so that this type of thing won't happen.
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Again, you ruin your credibility when you try to lump yourself into a group of "wrongly dismissed" residents. Many of those 280 you refer to were dismissed for very good reasons. I'm sure those folks dispute that, but we've all seen it happen. There are many many folks who simply don't know how to be a resident and after getting multiple chances can't find a way to shape up and their contracts are not renewed. Many of these 280 surely fit this bill. So if you have any sense at all, you would stop lumping yourself in with this folks and calling for residency reform. Focus on yourself, and only yourself. Focusing on a group where the typical group member deserves no sympathy is a losing proposition. We WANT bad residents to get thrown out. So the best thing you can do is say "I'm not anything like these other 280 people, I stand alone". Not try to embrace them as a losing cause.
 
Law2Doc said:
Again, you ruin your credibility when you try to lump yourself into a group of "wrongly dismissed" residents. Many of those 280 you refer to were dismissed for very good reasons. I'm sure those folks dispute that, but we've all seen it happen. There are many many folks who simply don't know how to be a resident and after getting multiple chances can't find a way to shape up and their contracts are not renewed. Many of these 280 surely fit this bill. So if you have any sense at all, you would stop lumping yourself in with this folks and calling for residency reform. Focus on yourself, and only yourself. Focusing on a group where the typical group member deserves no sympathy is a losing proposition. We WANT bad residents to get thrown out. So the best thing you can do is say "I'm not anything like these other 280 people, I stand alone". Not try to embrace them as a losing cause.
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im not the best representative, so i probably should bow out, but i do feel sorry for them. if they want to stand up for their rights, they should do so. i think it isn't right that they lose their careers completely after completing medical school, and given only 3 months of probation, out of many years they spent to get there, to correct themselves. it's such a waste of life to have the system beat them down like that. i personally think there should be a way out so they can eventually complete residency or some more time for remediation of any of their problems. no one knows this when they start medical school and then find out what a huge mistake it was and most are in heavy debt and can't pay it off.
 
Is it just me or this thread long ago started to run in circles?
 
turquoiseblue said:
im not the best representative, so i probably should bow out, but i do feel sorry for them. if they want to stand up for their rights, they should do so. i think it isn't right that they lose their careers completely after completing medical school, and given only 3 months of probation, out of many years they spent to get there, to correct themselves. it's such a waste of life to have the system beat them down like that. i personally think there should be a way out so they can eventually complete residency or some more time for remediation of any of their problems. no one knows this when they start medical school and then find out what a huge mistake it was and most are in heavy debt and can't pay it off.
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How is this unfair? If patient care is compromised because some crappy resident had poor knowledge base or judgment, then they deserve to be fired and heavily disciplined. This is in the interest of public safety.

Also, are you calling yourself a competent resident? You failed the USMLE several times, some steps more than once, and failed classes in medical school. You recently posted that you hadn't passed step 3 yet, though it seems like you took it around/before the match, meaning as recent as months ago, you proved your incompetence. You should not expect to get multiple chances, and nor should you presume you can distance yourself from the other people who were fired. I will rest easy knowing that the system did not allow you to slip through the cracks and complete a residency.
 
anon-y-mouse said:
How is this unfair? If patient care is compromised because some crappy resident had poor knowledge base or judgment, then they deserve to be fired and heavily disciplined. This is in the interest of public safety.

Also, are you calling yourself a competent resident? You failed the USMLE several times, some steps more than once, and failed classes in medical school. You recently posted that you hadn't passed step 3 yet, though it seems like you took it around/before the match, meaning as recent as months ago, you proved your incompetence. You should not expect to get multiple chances, and nor should you presume you can distance yourself from the other people who were fired. I will rest easy knowing that the system did not allow you to slip through the cracks and complete a residency.
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lets say a resident improved themselves dramatically and did well on a step. failing steps doesnt mean you can't become a doctor. i've seen people get in residency that failed multiple times. there's no blockage on that.
anyways, the way it is now, there is no room to improve in residency. a person isn't stupid just because they fail once and residency makes that possible...its just the ridiculous downfall of it all. you're probably an AMG and i've seen the way you are on here bvefore...i know you don't know the hardship of being an FMG so you probably have no sympathy for anyone else but you yourself and those just like you in ur own shoes.
 
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turquoiseblue said:
lets say a resident improved themselves dramatically and did well on a step. failing steps doesnt mean you can't become a doctor. i've seen people get in residency that failed multiple times. there's no blockage on that.
anyways, the way it is now, there is no room to improve in residency. a person isn't stupid just because they fail once and residency makes that possible...its just the ridiculous downfall of it all. you're probably an AMG and i've seen the way you are on here bvefore...i know you don't know the hardship of being an FMG so you probably have no sympathy for anyone else but you yourself and those just like you in ur own shoes.
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Unfortunately I have to join the crowd, how the hell can someone fail a test several times, be fired from one residency and quit another?
 
karatekid said:
Unfortunately I have to join the crowd, how the hell can someone fail a test several times, be fired from one residency and quit another?
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:uhno: oh no u di'int :nono:
whatever the case im still determined to get residency...:rolleyes:.
 
Turq

You have my sympathy for what has surely been a difficult road. It is very disappointing going through medical school and finding yourself in limbo when all you want to do it take care of patients, have a good job, and progress with your training. I didn't match the first time around, but I got a great prelim spot and then matched into my residency of choice at a great place. So I do understand somewhat what you are going through. In addition, the place I went for my prelim year was NOT a cuddly residency. It was a big time academic place where the onous was on ME to prove I was worth something. It would have been ludicrous to expect that the other residents would reach out to me and go out of their way to make my life easier. As an intern your job is to work your ass off, learn the ropes and take care of patients.

You have to prove that you are worth interacting with. Be a team player, read in your off time, DO NOT COMPLAIN, help other team members when you have time, DO NOT COMPLAIN (notice that I repeated that one, everyone above you has done what you have done and it was worse for them- no matter how bad you think you have it), Be respectful to everyone you meet (build bridges, don't burn them).

A little introspection goes a long way.

Good luck in the future

BTW, working in the pharma/medical device industry is not a bad idea. A friend of mine did exactly that when he had to withdraw from residency due to sickness in his family and he is doing very well.
 
WentForitandWon said:
Turq

You have my sympathy for what has surely been a difficult road. It is very disappointing going through medical school and finding yourself in limbo when all you want to do it take care of patients, have a good job, and progress with your training. I didn't match the first time around, but I got a great prelim spot and then matched into my residency of choice at a great place. So I do understand somewhat what you are going through. In addition, the place I went for my prelim year was NOT a cuddly residency. It was a big time academic place where the onous was on ME to prove I was worth something. It would have been ludicrous to expect that the other residents would reach out to me and go out of their way to make my life easier. As an intern your job is to work your ass off, learn the ropes and take care of patients.

You have to prove that you are worth interacting with. Be a team player, read in your off time, DO NOT COMPLAIN, help other team members when you have time, DO NOT COMPLAIN (notice that I repeated that one, everyone above you has done what you have done and it was worse for them- no matter how bad you think you have it), Be respectful to everyone you meet (build bridges, don't burn them).

A little introspection goes a long way.

Good luck in the future

BTW, working in the pharma/medical device industry is not a bad idea. A friend of mine did exactly that when he had to withdraw from residency due to sickness in his family and he is doing very well.
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thanks wentforit, this is all very true...if i ever get back into residency, i will keep that in mind. those points are key to staying in a residency.
also, congrats on successfully getting residency of your choice at a place you like!
 
turquoiseblue said:
lets say a resident improved themselves dramatically and did well on a step. failing steps doesnt mean you can't become a doctor. i've seen people get in residency that failed multiple times. there's no blockage on that.
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Of course failing the steps doesn't mean you can't become a doctor. But it is NOT just about failing the steps with you. I know we are all basically beating our heads against a wall trying to argue with you at this point, but you have red flags at just about EVERY possible step in the process:

Med school - Carib grad, which fair or not carries some stigma
USMLE scores - Multiple failures (on step I, II, and possibly III as well?)
Med school grades - Multiple course failures
Clinical performance - Multiple failed attempts at residency
 
southernIM said:
Of course failing the steps doesn't mean you can't become a doctor. But it is NOT just about failing the steps with you. I know we are all basically beating our heads against a wall trying to argue with you at this point, but you have red flags at just about EVERY possible step in the process:

Med school - Carib grad, which fair or not carries some stigma
USMLE scores - Multiple failures (on step I, II, and possibly III as well?)
Med school grades - Multiple course failures
Clinical performance - Multiple failed attempts at residency
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o well, if at first you don't succeed...what else can you do but try, try again...that's my motto....
 
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turquoiseblue said:
interesting article...
so what if im considered incompetent to anyone. i think for anyone to deem themselves at the level of a PD, without being a PD, to claim a resident is incompetent is the biggest incompetence of all. they should save it until they become PD's, if ever.
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aprogdirector has already pretty much weighed in previously. Also, just because you voluntarily quit your first IM residency doesn't mean it wasn't rapidly heading in the direction of being fired. Many jobs offer the opportunity for employees to resign, rather than officially be terminated -- that's the "nice thing to do", though doesn't mean much. this is not to mention the surgery prelim, which you weren't "allowed" to finish despite having a medical condition at the end. and didn't you obtain a nuclear medicine residency that you didn't end up joining?

The only answer you had was, "let's say a resident dramatically improved in residency". This statement is only true in your eyes. Everyone around you thought your residency performance was grossly underpar to become a full-fledged physician, or you would have a residency by now. Furthermore, there is pretty much an infinitesimal likelihood that one can go from years of incompetence to dramatic improvement. The basis for your performance was shoddy at all levels of your training, as evidenced by the fact you had difficulty with every single benchmark along the way -- from day 1 in 1999 (I presume that's when you started med school -- Caribbean, so problems even further back in undergrad), to today, failing USMLE Step 3. If you still want to be a doctor, for your own sake, you should go back and apply to osteopathic medical school and re-learn everything properly from first principles.
 
turquoiseblue said:
interesting article...
so what if im considered incompetent to anyone. i think for anyone to deem themselves at the level of a PD, without being a PD, to claim a resident is incompetent is the biggest incompetence of all. they should save it until they become PD's, if ever.
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You don't have to be a gourmet chef to know someone made a disgustingly unappetizing meal.
 
I've been reading this thread all the way though, and while I know I am not even in medical school yet, I have some advice for the OP:

Get some help.

I know that you seem to be very, very determined, and good on ya for that, but really .. you sound like you need a therapist. You're obsessed about getting back to a residency that will probably not happen, given your track record. I'm honestly wondering how you got into PGY-1 in the first place.

I don't want to sound rude, but you need to realize the reality around you. You're not letting this go, and you're having all these people tell you that you need to. I understand that you worked so hard (or maybe not?) to get so far, but I strongly suggest getting some therapy to work on what you're dealing with and to help you let go. It's over and done with. Yes, people can drastically change over a certain amount of time, but I'm not sure your situation is something one can bounce back from.

I wish you luck.
 
anonymouse would make for a great malignant PD the way he/she talks toward people. i think you're headed in the perfect direction for that line of work.
aProgDirector gave his input and it was in favor of reform of residency programs, and showed how to do it, if you didn't read it carefully enough. i know you want to so badly prove me incompetent but too bad for you. you're not at that level to decide what i am. and that quote about not having to be a chef, you don't even know the half of being a resident yet. you will soon find out.
to think you're competent enough as a PD without a PD level experience to determine incompetence is way out of your league, 'buddy'! and i dont care go drill holes in me while your'e at it. :hungover:

and i dont need therapy...i've been to a therapist and all she does is talk to me and we don't get into anything at all its like a stupid chat...i think she really doesn't know what she's doing at all...but what can you do...i mean hello i know more psych than she does..if i went to a doctor the doctor won't talk, they refer to therapists that know much less than them to talk to you for $50/hour...free easy money for her...others may be way better and know what they're doing but i haven't seen that as of yet. i know for a fact that a therapist cannot solve my problems...been there done that.

Please--don't bang your heads against walls trying to get me to not apply.. because i will and it isn't a disease to not quit :bang:
or if you want to call it a disease call it energizer bunny syndrome..
i think anonymouse and a couple other meanies have PD-wannabe-disease....maybe they are in need of therapy? because even a real PD is not going to go around calling people incompetent like a chicken with their head cut off the way some people are doing toward me.
 
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turquoiseblue said:
anonymouse would make for a great malignant PD the way he/she talks toward people. i think you're headed in the perfect direction for that line of work.
aProgDirector gave his input and it was in favor of reform of residency programs, and showed how to do it, if you didn't read it carefully enough. i know you want to so badly prove me incompetent but too bad for you. you're not at that level to decide what i am. and that quote about not having to be a chef, you don't even know the half of being a resident yet. you will soon find out.
to think you're competent enough as a PD without a PD level experience to determine incompetence is way out of your league, 'buddy'! and i dont care go drill holes in me while your'e at it. :hungover:

and i dont need therapy....just because im reapplying? what-ever. some of you guys need help for telling me i'll never make it and wanting me to commit residency suicide and being so adamant at it like banging your head against a wall.:bang:
Click to expand...

Did anyone understand any of that? Fortunately, this is all about you and not an iota about me. You are one of the people who has failed time and again to succeed. Over and over and over. For all the things you failed, I easily passed and easily surmounted all the necessary hurdles. You spent the entire last decade trying to get to the point where I and others are successful. Is "telling it like it is" a sign of a malignant program director? Then I'm sure I'd make a great one. Fortunately, I would go out of my way to avoid hiring people who've failed a number of times and are still doomed to fail. I don't know why you go on.
 
turquoiseblue said:
and i dont need therapy...i've been to a therapist and all she does is talk to me and we don't get into anything at all its like a stupid chat...i think she really doesn't know what she's doing at all...but what can you do...i mean hello i know more psych than she does..if i went to a doctor the doctor won't talk, they refer to therapists that know much less than them to talk to you for $50/hour...free easy money for them...
Click to expand...

You must know more than she does.. that's why you're still a physician, right?

I tried to help, and actually feel sympathy for you, but now you're just delusional, so I'll let you go on.
 
I know you meant well i am just saying i dont need therapy, because i dont see it helping me.
 
anon-y-mouse said:
Did anyone understand any of that? Fortunately, this is all about you and not an iota about me. You are one of the people who has failed time and again to succeed. Over and over and over. For all the things you failed, I easily passed and easily surmounted all the necessary hurdles. You spent the entire last decade trying to get to the point where I and others are successful. Is "telling it like it is" a sign of a malignant program director? Then I'm sure I'd make a great one. Fortunately, I would go out of my way to avoid hiring people who've failed a number of times and are still doomed to fail. I don't know why you go on.
Click to expand...

ok ok im such a failure.i dont deserve to be a doctor. im mentally ******ed and dont deserve anything at all and will never be able to achieve what you have achieved. :bow::bow: are you happy now?

A tip: by the way do you understand that im senior to you by 2 years, (gonna get licensed) and ur supposed to be bowing down to me instead? and im supposed to smack u up side your head if you don't talk nicely, at least for the next 2 years until you become senior to me. if you don't understand that, ur gonna be a-strugglin' away in residency big time if u talk that way to your seniors.
 
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turquoiseblue said:
A tip: by the way do you understand that im senior to you by 2 years, (gonna get licensed) and ur supposed to be bowing down to me instead? and im supposed to smack u up side your head if you don't talk nicely, at least for the next 2 years until you become senior to me. if you don't understand that, ur gonna be a-strugglin' away in residency big time if u talk that way to your seniors.
Click to expand...

:eyebrow: Well, then. That was completely uncalled for. Consider this your official warning.

PlutoBoy said:
Is it just me or this thread long ago started to run in circles?
Click to expand...

Yes, and now it's starting to circle the drain.

If you want to sign the turquoiseblue's petition, the link is still reachable from his initial post. But I think, otherwise, we're done here - closing.
 
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