California people going out of state for med school

I've read several comments on here stressing that it's extremely important that you go to medical school in california to get a good california residency (or, indeed, any california residency at all). This is not true. I am in a VERY competitive program and most people here did not go to school in california. Many are california people who came back for residency, and did not find going out of state to be a problem at all. I know this is also true for many of my friends who went out of state--we have all matched extremely well, and many if not most of the people we work with did not stay in california for medical school. So for those of you trying to make decisions about which school to attend based on this, don't. This is a fallacy, and one that will not serve you well in deciding which school to go to.

As someone who has actually gone through the process, I just thought I'd let those of you deciding on schools (or upset about not getting into a California school) know.

Good luck to you all. It's a long process, but definitely worth it.

resident1 said:

I've read several comments on here stressing that it's extremely important that you go to medical school in california to get a good california residency (or, indeed, any california residency at all). This is not true. I am in a VERY competitive program and most people here did not go to school in california. Many are california people who came back for residency, and did not find going out of state to be a problem at all. I know this is also true for many of my friends who went out of state--we have all matched extremely well, and many if not most of the people we work with did not stay in california for medical school. So for those of you trying to make decisions about which school to attend based on this, don't. This is a fallacy, and one that will not serve you well in deciding which school to go to.

As someone who has actually gone through the process, I just thought I'd let those of you deciding on schools (or upset about not getting into a California school) know.

Good luck to you all. It's a long process, but definitely worth it.

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Thank you for your words of encouragement. I used to be worried about that, but now I have no doubt that with the clinical training at BU, I will have no problem matching back in CA. I think it's just easier, but the truth remains that if you work hard enough, you can go pretty much anywhere.

I'm one of those people who have said many times that it is hard to get a competative spot in Cali if you leave, and I still stnd by that claim. 30-40% of USC grads end up at USC. Another 40-50% end up in California residency spots. A vast majority of the people who are in the residency programs here (the good ones. i.e. Ophtho, Ortho, Derm, etc) are from USC, or an top 10-15 school. You might be one of those who got lucky, but the stats don't back it up. Look how many Californians end up going out of state:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2003/2003slrmat.htm

Having a home school advantage in California helps you a TON in getting the spot you want. This isn't true for residencies such as Fam med, Psych, some IM's, but definately the competative ones. Heck, people at my school already have some residency spots pretty secured because they did research with important people at the school (which isn't open to other school peopl)

Jalby said:

I'm one of those people who have said many times that it is hard to get a competative spot in Cali if you leave, and I still stnd by that claim. 30-40% of USC grads end up at USC. Another 40-50% end up in California residency spots. A vast majority of the people who are in the residency programs here (the good ones. i.e. Ophtho, Ortho, Derm, etc) are from USC, or an top 10-15 school. You might be one of those who got lucky, but the stats don't back it up. Look how many Californians end up going out of state:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2003/2003slrmat.htm

Having a home school advantage in California helps you a TON in getting the spot you want. This isn't true for residencies such as Fam med, Psych, some IM's, but definately the competative ones. Heck, people at my school already have some residency spots pretty secured because they did research with important people at the school (which isn't open to other school peopl)

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The link you provided is for acceptances to med school, not residency spots. Do you have a link to back up the residency information you have posted?

I respect your right to differ in opinions, Jalby, but as one who has been through the process I tend to disagree. People who are making their decision on which medical school to attend by reading this message board will get a very one-sided view, one that will affect the next four years of their life. And as I said before, I'm not one who got "lucky". Most of the people here came from out of state. You keep mentioning USC, but many of the residency programs there are not considered all that great when compared to many others in California. So, while it may be true that attending USC gives you an edge in getting a residency at USC it doesn't when considering all other residencies in California.

Also, if I remember correctly you advised someone who was deciding between USC and UCIrvine to choose USC if interested in emergency medicine (if this was not you, then please forgive this post). This would be the exact opposite of what they should do, since UCIrvine has a more respected Emerg. Med. program. Again, we have differing views, but I'm just trying to give another opinion to those deciding on schools.

I never have figured out why it seems like so many people(especially on sdn) want to practice in southern california. Sure, the weather is great I suppose. But it's also good in other parts of the country. The oversaturation of physicians in some parts of cali bring salaries down compared to reimbursement in other areas. Also, the traffic is said to be the worse in LA than anywhere in the whole country. And yeah, I know traffic is bad in lots of big cities, but from all reports LA seems to be in a totally different category in that respect than Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, etc....

I'm not knocking those who really value being in northern or southern california, but I just don't quite understand it.

meanderson said:

I never have figured out why it seems like so many people(especially on sdn) want to practice in southern california. Sure, the weather is great I suppose. But it's also good in other parts of the country. The oversaturation of physicians in some parts of cali bring salaries down compared to reimbursement in other areas. Also, the traffic is said to be the worse in LA than anywhere in the whole country. And yeah, I know traffic is bad in lots of big cities, but from all reports LA seems to be in a totally different category in that respect than Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, etc....

I'm not knocking those who really value being in northern or southern california, but I just don't quite understand it.

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LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. Its not always about where we''ll make the most money.

meanderson said:

I never have figured out why it seems like so many people(especially on sdn) want to practice in southern california. Sure, the weather is great I suppose. But it's also good in other parts of the country. The oversaturation of physicians in some parts of cali bring salaries down compared to reimbursement in other areas. Also, the traffic is said to be the worse in LA than anywhere in the whole country. And yeah, I know traffic is bad in lots of big cities, but from all reports LA seems to be in a totally different category in that respect than Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, etc....

I'm not knocking those who really value being in northern or southern california, but I just don't quite understand it.

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I was actually surprised at how many people like Southern Cali for school/work. I lived near Santa Cruz for 2 years, and I actually like the weather there more than L.A. San Francisco, however, is more foggy throughout the year, but I find that to be pretty. If I can choose between a hotter and a colded place, a colded place all the way!

The numbers that have been thrown around before back up the OP's claim. There are about 1200 medical students in California schools, and about 2500 residency spots in California. That means more than 50% of people in California residencies have to come from out-of-state schools.

exmike said:

LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. Its not always about where we''ll make the most money.

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But don't other parts of the country also offer so much in the way of location as well? I went to Austin once to visit relatives for a month. One of the coolest most vibrant cities I've even seen. There are parts along the southeastern atlantic coast in this country that are incredible. The research triangle in north carolina seems like a very intriguing mix of a great academic community, low cost of living(250k for a new 2400 sq ft house!!), good weather, and interesting outdoor activities within close geograohical proximity.

I guess I'm fortunate in a sense that I don't have any more desire to obtain a residency or live in socal than anywhere else in the county, but this is such a huge country with so many different great parts to it.

But who knows, I'll probably do an away rotation my m4 year at a cali hospital and fall in love with the state, so I may have to eat my words later 🙂

Some people, myself included, really like California and want to stay here. I have lived in several different parts of the country and like this location the best. My family is here too. Other places have cool stuff going for them, but for me this is the best.

Just to note, I was at a conference today and watched a couple of presentations on healthcare in California. The Bay Area actually has a higher oversaturation of physicians than the Los Angeles area does. And the Central Valley has a big physician shortage, especially in the specialties. So there are great opportunities for people to practice there.

I believe that it helps to stay in California for medical school. Even at the two DO schools in CA, most graduates enter into residencies in CA. The following is the 2004 matchlist for Western/COMP. You'll notice that most graduates entered into primary care allopathic residencies in CA. 👍


---COMP 2004 Matchlist---
Internal Medicine U Southern California
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship UNECOM/Albany Medical College
AOA- CMB:T/Family Practice Doctors Hospital Med. Ctr. Montclair
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Crozier-Chester Med. Ctr.
Internal Medicine Alameda CO MedCtr-CA
Anesthesiology University Hosps-Jackson-MS
Pediatrics Loma Linda University-CA
Family Practice Kaiser Permanente-CA
Family Practice/Billing Montana Family Practice
Psychiatry U Colorado SOM-Denver
AOA - Tripler Army Medical Center
Pediatrics Stanford Univ Progs-CA
Family Practice Riverside County Reg Med-CA
AOA Tripler Army Medical Center
Family Practice Glendale Adventist-CA
Emergency Medicine TX Tech U affil ?El Paso
Family Practice Methodist Hop-Sacramento-CA
Internal Medicine White Mem Med Ctr-LA-CA
Emergency Medicine U Arkansas-Little Rock
AOA CMB: Emergency Medicine OUCOM/COM/Doctors Hospital ? Columbus
Psychiatry U Hawaii Affil Psych Res
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Riverside County Regional Medical Ctr.
Family Practice Scripps Mem Hosp
Psychiatry-UCLA/SFVP VA Greater LA Hlth Sys-CA
AOA Naval Hospital - San Diego
Family Practice Glendale Adventist
Medicine-Preliminary UC Irvine Med Ctr-CA
Family Practice Pomona Valley Hosp-CA
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Dostors Hospital Med. Ctr. - Montclair
Transitional(2nd ) Emergency Med. Kern Medical Center-CA
Internal Medicine White Mem Med Ctr-LA-CA
Pathology Loma Linda University-CA
AOA - CMB: T/Family Practice Arrowhead Regional Medical Center
AOA Naval Hospital - San Diego
Pediatrics Martin L King Jr./Drew-CA
AOA - CMB: FP/Family Practice NYCOM/Jamaica Hospital Div
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Arrowhead Regional Medical Center
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship PCOM/ Philadelphia Consortium
AOA Naval Hospital - San Diego
Phys Medicine & Rehab Stanford Univ Prog-CA
Family Practice PIH Fam Prac Res-whittier-CA
Internal Medicine U Southern California
AOA Bremerton Naval Hospital
No PGY1
Internal Med White Mem Med Ctr-LA-CA
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship UNECOM/ Univ. of Connecticut Health Ctr.
Family Practice UC Irvine Med Ctr-CA
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship NYCOM/St. Clare's Hospital
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Downey Regional Medical Center
Preliminary U Neveda Affil Hosp-Vegas
AOA Naval Hospital - Pendleton
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Doctors' Hospital of Montclair
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Downey Regional Medical Center
Family Practice Kaiser Permanente- Fontana-CA
Family Practice California Hosp Med Ctr
Internal Medicine Kaiser Perm-Santa Clara-CA
Family Practice Jamaica Hosp Med Ctr NY
Family Practice Harbor-UCLA Med Ctr-CA
AOA - CMB:T/Family Practice Arrowhead Regional Medical Center
Family Practice St. Anthony Hospitals-CO
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Peninsula Hospital Center
Pediatrics St. Vincents Hosp-NY
Internal Medicine Kendra Ochsner Clinic Foundation-LA
Obstetrics-Gynecology Queens Hosp/Mt Sinai-NY
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship NYCOM/St. Clare's Hospital
Family Practice Pomona Valley Hosp-CA
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship MSUCOM/EW Sparrow Hospital
Pediatrics Loma Linda University-CA
Pediatrics U Nevada Affil Hosp-Vegas
Internal Medicine Huntington Memorial-CA
AOA Travis Air Force Base/Grant Med.
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Downey Regional Medical Center
Family Practice Harbor- UCLA Med Ctr-CA
AOA - CMB:T/Family Practice Doctors' Hospital & Med. Center, Montclair
AOA - CMB:IM/Internal Medicine MSUCOM/Huron Valley - Sinai Hospital
AOA - CMB:T/Family Practice Doctors' Hospital of Montclair
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Riverside County Regional Medical Center
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Metropolitan Hospital
AOA Naval Hospital - Bethesda
Medicine-Pediatrics Loma Linda Univ-CA
Internal Medicine Kaiser Permanente-Oakland-CA
Family Practice Long Beach Mem Med Ctr-CA
Internal Medicine Alameda Co Med Ctr-CA
Family Practice UC Irvine Med Ctr-CA
Family Practice St. Josephs Hosp-AZ
AOA - CMB:IM/ Internal Medicine MSUCOM/Huron Valley - Sinai Hopsital
Psychiatry UC San Francisco-Fresno-CA
Family Practice Kaiser Permanente- Riverside-CA
Family Practice UC Irvine Med Ctr-CA
AOA Naval Hospital - San Diego
Internal Medicine UC Irvine Med Ctr-CA
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Downey Regional Medical Center
Pediatrics Kaiser Permanente-LA-CA
Family Practice Middlesex Hospital-CT
Family Practice Glendale Adventist-CA
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Peninsula Hospital Center
AOA - CMB/T/Family Practice Downey Regional Medical Center
Pediatrics Kaiser Permanente-LA-CA
Family Practice Sutter Med Ctr-Santa Rosa-CA
AOA - CMB:FP/Family Practice Florida Hospital East Orlando
Internal Medicine Med Coll Wisconsin Aff Hosps
AOA- Trad. Rotating Internship Downey Regional Medical Center
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Arrowhead Regional Medical Center
Family Practice Northridge Hosp Med Ctr-CA
AOA - CMB:T/Orthopaedic Surgery Botsford General Hospital
Family Practice Harbor-UCLA Med Ctr-CA
Family Practice Kaiser Permanente-Fontana-CA
Psychiatry UC Davis Med Ctr-Sac Ca
Family Practice St. Anthony Hospital-CO
Family Practice Pomona Valley Hosp-CA
Anesthesiology-4yr Baystate Med Ctr-MA
Family Practice St Anthony Hospital-CO
AOA E. Bergquistr USAF Regional Hospital
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship
AOA -Trad. Rotating Internship Downey Regional Medical Center
Internal Medicine Loma Linda University-CA
Pediatrics Austin Med Educ Progs-TX
Pediatrics U Nevada Affil Hosp-Vegas
Transitional Arrowhead Reg. Med Ctr-CA
AOA - CMB: T/Emergency Medicine St. John Oakland Hospital
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Doctors' Hospital of Montclair
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship MSUCOM/ Huron Valley - Sinai Hospital
Psychiatry-UCLA/SFVP VA Greater LA Hlth Sys-CA
Anesthesiology-4yr Baystate Med Ctr-MA
Family Practice Arrowhead Reg Med Ctr-CA
Transitional San Joaquin Gen Hosp
Pediatrics UC San Francisco-Fresno-CA
AOA - CMB: T/Family Practice Downey Regional Medical Center
AOA - CMB: T/Family Practice Arrowhead Regional Medical Center
Family Practice St Marks Family Med-UT
AOA - CMB: FP/Family Practice NYCOM/Jamaica Hospital Div
AOA - Trad. Rotating Internship Pacific Hospital of Long Beach
Medicine-Primary Loma Linda University-CA

but COMP is half CA so isnt it a little self selective? In addition, the real difference comes when matching for competitive residencies. OP already noted that if you want to match primary care in CA from out of state there really isnt any difficulty if you did decently well in med school.

That data is probably too hard to collect though.

Of course, it makes complete sense that going to school in CA helps in obtaining a CA residency.

I have talked to many 4th year students who just went through the match process and they basically (in a nutshell) told me the following:

A UCLA med student and a Vandy med school student (all else being equal), have equal chances at lets say a program at UCSF. The UCLA student does have an advantage at UCLA while the Vandy student will have an advantage at Vandy. Assume that Vandy and UCLA have equal reputations.

Going to school in California does not give you an edge to any other cali school but ur own.

What people are forgetting is that the Cali students do their rotations at the same hospitals where they may end up doing their residency. Thus, the residency director and whoever else who makes the decision will get to see how they perform. That's what they call an audition rotation.

Also, you can get a glowing letter from a top dog at one of these hospitals which will definitely help you land a good residency. If you go to school in the east, you may not be allowed to set up your rotations back in the hospitals with residenicies in CA.

This inevitably puts you at a disadvantage to the Cali student.

Many times it's about who you know and the connections you have made. Definitely, the Cali student will be able to make the right connections to land the right residency. This of course is something that an out of state student may not be able to do.

Lakers4in5 said:

I have talked to many 4th year students who just went through the match process and they basically (in a nutshell) told me the following:

A UCLA med student and a Vandy med school student (all else being equal), have equal chances at lets say a program at UCSF. The UCLA student does have an advantage at UCLA while the Vandy student will have an advantage at Vandy. Assume that Vandy and UCLA have equal reputations.

Going to school in California does not give you an edge to any other cali school but ur own.

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This is right on target.
To the poster who mentioned DO matchlists, that's a totally different animal, and can't really be applied to MD matching.
The fact remains, I have been through this process, and would just hate to see people making such important decisions based on misleading information.
If you like an out-of-state school, but do not want to go because you are worried about residency, then this should tell you to base your decision on something else. You can come back for residency, that isn't an issue. This is the only place where I have ever heard that used as a basis for picking which school to go to.
Also, anyone worried about the fee hike in the UC system should realize that it is balanced out by pretty good financial aid, I have seen that myth perpetuated on here too.
Good luck to all.

resident1 said:

Also, if I remember correctly you advised someone who was deciding between USC and UCIrvine to choose USC if interested in emergency medicine (if this was not you, then please forgive this post). This would be the exact opposite of what they should do, since UCIrvine has a more respected Emerg. Med. program. Again, we have differing views, but I'm just trying to give another opinion to those deciding on schools.

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So where exactly did you hear UCI has a better program than USC??? When I was at UCLA living with med students, every person's goal was to get into the USC ER program, even over UCLA. UCI was never even mentioned once and I would love to know who told you that UCI has a better ER rep than USC. Granted, Rep is such a fluid thing and different people have different opinions, but I'd be shocked to find anybody who believes this.


But as I've said before, going to a school gives you a huge advantage at that school. That alone is a major reason to go to school in Cali if you want to stay in cali. I've givens tons of examples of USC because that's where I have the most information.

I think it helps to have ties to CA . . . that doesn't necessarily mean you have to have gone to medical school in CA. I was born here, I grew up here, I even went to college here. Anyone who thinks that spending 4 years out of 25 outside of the state is going to cut down on my chances of getting a residency in CA is crazy (of course this all rests on the assumption that I will do well in school and decent on the boards 😉 ).

I think it definitely helps to have ties if you want to come back. Even though I'll be in Philly for school, I hope to come back to SF and do some UCSF/SFGH rotations as a 4th year and work with some of the docs I've gotten to know through working and volunteering. Who knows if that'll help me get a residency spot...but I'm not going to burn my bridges just yet!

resident1 said:

I've read several comments on here stressing that it's extremely important that you go to medical school in california to get a good california residency (or, indeed, any california residency at all). This is not true. I am in a VERY competitive program and most people here did not go to school in california.

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what medical school did you go to? because maybe that fact make your claim a little more tangible and people might have a better time understanding your story and your beliefs. i think this has a lot to do with what medical school you choose to attend on the east coast, midwest, or wherever. for example, i do not think that someone from harvard will have to prove himself to the residency directors as much as someone from a "non-ranked" school whose class composition consists of like 60% californians.

Jalby said:

So where exactly did you hear UCI has a better program than USC??? When I was at UCLA living with med students, every person's goal was to get into the USC ER program, even over UCLA. UCI was never even mentioned once and I would love to know who told you that UCI has a better ER rep than USC. Granted, Rep is such a fluid thing and different people have different opinions, but I'd be shocked to find anybody who believes this.


But as I've said before, going to a school gives you a huge advantage at that school. That alone is a major reason to go to school in Cali if you want to stay in cali. I've givens tons of examples of USC because that's where I have the most information.

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Haing read some of your posts, I think it's interesting that you belittle others for taking the advice of people who have yet to enter medical school over your own, making the point that having gone through the process makes you more of an authority. Well, by your own logic, my advice is more trusted than yours, although I will say take ANY advice with a grain of salt.

What you know, Jalby, comes from second-hand experience, NOT your own of having gone through the process. I and all of my classmates, as well as many of my friends have actually gone THROUGH the process, disagree with what you say. To those reading, make your own decision about who and what you listen to.

I didn't disagree with the fact that going to a school gives you a small advantage in matching there, but that is obvious. What you imply to many of the people on this forum is that it gives you an advantage at all California schools, which is ridiculous. YOU SHOULD NOT MAKE A DECISION TO ATTEND A SCHOOL BASED SOLELY ON THIS WRONG ADVICE. This is a big decision for all of you, make it based on FACTUAL information.

As for UCIrvine Emergency program vs. USC, you will obviously be biased in regards to that. In fact, I understand why you push so many people to go to your school, even giving them advice that is flat out wrong to "scare" them into it. You simply want a better class, and a better reputation for USC. But keep in mind, you are playing with the lives of REAL people, and unfortunately many people reading this forum will ultimately make their decisions as to where to go based solely on what they read on an internet forum. That's never a smart thing to do.

To the poster who asked what school I went to, I was waiting to see if anyone would ask, that's a logical question. Two points for you. The answer is that it wasn't a top tier school, not even close to one, so that really isn't a factor in my opinions or advice.

On another note, I have also noticed tuition at the UC's being used as a negative factor to push people to choose another school. Please realize that many of you will get grants that will cover at least part of tuition, making the UC's a wonderful yet inexpensive choice for medical school.

To resident1: don't feel too bad about people not listening to your sage advice. everyone here thinks they know it all. I have posted in several threads something my father, who happens to be a member of a residency committee, told me and people have gone off on how wrong I was. In a few years people will go through the process and find out that you were right, that I had a point, and they had no idea what they were talking about!

I believe you both, and thank you for trying to clear the air about all this false information flying around. Hopefully, people will read this thread and be able to make an informed decision.

Celtic, why don't you post that info again just in case, or attach a link or something?

Spitting Camel said:

I believe you both, and thank you for trying to clear the air about all this false information flying around. Hopefully, people will read this thread and be able to make an informed decision.

Celtic, why don't you post that info again just in case, or attach a link or something?

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Since you asked: My dad is on the OBGYN residency committee for his hospital. He has told me several times that it really does not matter what medical school you go to as long as it is in the US. What matters is what you did while you were there. He also said that going to one of the "big name" schools is not good if you plan to actually practice medicine. They are big name because they are research institutes not because of the clincians they produce.

To all who use the term cali, don't. Nobody from california does and it is rather frowned upon. Sorry for the interjection, but it had to be done.

celticmists18 said:

Since you asked: My dad is on the OBGYN residency committee for his hospital. He has told me several times that it really does not matter what medical school you go to as long as it is in the US. What matters is what you did while you were there. He also said that going to one of the "big name" schools is not good if you plan to actually practice medicine. They are big name because they are research institutes not because of the clincians they produce.

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Exactly. I only posted here to try and "clear the air" as Spitting Camel said. It's nice to make informed decisions, and this is an important one.

People need to realize that as much as this forum can give good information, it can also give bad information.

Again, good luck to you all. Use your time in medical school wisely!

JuanRafia said:

To all who use the term cali, don't. Nobody from california does and it is rather frowned upon. Sorry for the interjection, but it had to be done.

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I'm from Cali, and I don't think it's that big of a deal. 😉 😀

resident1 said:

Haing read some of your posts, I think it's interesting that you belittle others for taking the advice of people who have yet to enter medical school over your own, making the point that having gone through the process makes you more of an authority. Well, by your own logic, my advice is more trusted than yours, although I will say take ANY advice with a grain of salt.

What you know, Jalby, comes from second-hand experience, NOT your own of having gone through the process. I and all of my classmates, as well as many of my friends have actually gone THROUGH the process, disagree with what you say. To those reading, make your own decision about who and what you listen to.

I didn't disagree with the fact that going to a school gives you a small advantage in matching there, but that is obvious. What you imply to many of the people on this forum is that it gives you an advantage at all California schools, which is ridiculous. YOU SHOULD NOT MAKE A DECISION TO ATTEND A SCHOOL BASED SOLELY ON THIS WRONG ADVICE. This is a big decision for all of you, make it based on FACTUAL information.

As for UCIrvine Emergency program vs. USC, you will obviously be biased in regards to that. In fact, I understand why you push so many people to go to your school, even giving them advice that is flat out wrong to "scare" them into it. You simply want a better class, and a better reputation for USC. But keep in mind, you are playing with the lives of REAL people, and unfortunately many people reading this forum will ultimately make their decisions as to where to go based solely on what they read on an internet forum. That's never a smart thing to do.

To the poster who asked what school I went to, I was waiting to see if anyone would ask, that's a logical question. Two points for you. The answer is that it wasn't a top tier school, not even close to one, so that really isn't a factor in my opinions or advice.

On another note, I have also noticed tuition at the UC's being used as a negative factor to push people to choose another school. Please realize that many of you will get grants that will cover at least part of tuition, making the UC's a wonderful yet inexpensive choice for medical school.

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Allright, I'll call it. I don't believe you are a real person. I think you are cbc. You sure do sound a lot like him and so far all 7 of your posts deal with a subject you know you would have gotten my opinion on. I believe this profile is made up and this isn't a real resident. Most residents wouldn't have time to post two strait days, read a premed forum for a couple of months, know who I am, or even care. You just don't pass the smell test. See if the post quoted sounds like cbc:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1096108#post1096108

resident1 said:

Exactly. I only posted here to try and "clear the air" as Spitting Camel said. It's nice to make informed decisions, and this is an important one.

People need to realize that as much as this forum can give good information, it can also give bad information.

Again, good luck to you all. Use your time in medical school wisely!

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Thanks resident1. It is easy to just take one person's advice that is very vocal on here and take it too seriously.

UCs do give you lots of grants if you need them... according to my estimate it would still be enormously cheaper than most private schools.

Most of the doctors I've talked to tell me that if you graduate at or near the top of your class (of any school), you'll have a good chance of getting a residency position anywhere. But, as far as CA residency is concerned, I do believe that you get a significant advantage by going to a CA school. Just look at the match lists. How can you argue against that? This year UCLA had ~50 matching at UCLA affiliated hospitals, 12 at other UCs, 7 USC, and 8 Stanford, for example. A total of 119 of the graduates matched into programs in CA.

I seems that all/most residency programs favor graduates of their affiliated schools or schools in that region. You probably have a better chance of securing a NY position if you went to a NY school than a CA school, for instance. If what the OP says is true and getting a CA spot from out of state is not all difficult, it probably means that only a handful of graduates from non-CA schools apply to CA residency positions (which is probably not true).

Personally, I'm not choosing a school to increase my chances for residency anywhere. If I liked an out of state school better than a CA school, I would go out of state. But, I think it is a legitimate factor to consider if one is really determined to do residency in a certain region (although I wouldn't choose a school entirely based on it).

JuanRafia said:

To all who use the term cali, don't. Nobody from california does and it is rather frowned upon. Sorry for the interjection, but it had to be done.

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A lot of people from Cali use the term Cali, but it is nice to have someone from Maryland tell us what to call our state 🙂

snowbear said:

A lot of people from Cali use the term Cali, but it is nice to have someone from Maryland tell us what to call our state 🙂

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GTea said:

Most of the doctors I've talked to tell me that if you graduate at or near the top of your class (of any school), you'll have a good chance of getting a residency position anywhere. But, as far as CA residency is concerned, I do believe that you get a significant advantage by going to a CA school. Just look at the match lists. How can you argue against that? This year UCLA had ~50 matching at UCLA affiliated hospitals, 12 at other UCs, 7 USC, and 8 Stanford, for example. A total of 119 of the graduates matched into programs in CA.

I seems that all/most residency programs favor graduates of their affiliated schools or schools in that region. You probably have a better chance of securing a NY position if you went to a NY school than a CA school, for instance. If what the OP says is true and getting a CA spot from out of state is not all difficult, it probably means that only a handful of graduates from non-CA schools apply to CA residency positions (which is probably not true).

Personally, I'm not choosing a school to increase my chances for residency anywhere. If I liked an out of state school better than a CA school, I would go out of state. But, I think it is a legitimate factor to consider if one is really determined to do residency in a certain region (although I would choose a school entirely based on it).

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But I would argue that such a high number of graduates matched into california because everyone in the class is from california so it only makes sense that they would apply to a california residency. I don't think schools necessarily "favor" graduates of schools in their region. Rather, the students at those schools are actually from that region (in the case of the UC's) and consequently rank that region's residency programs highly on their matchlists in an attempt to stay in that region.

If anything I hear residency directors also take into account your original state of residence. I have heard from a handful of 4th years here who have already matched that it improves one's chances to get a cali residency if the address they use on their match application is a california address. it helps to push your california ties(not in regard to hospitals but in regard to family and stuff). So for example, all things being equal(ie clerkship grades, medical institution, step 1 scores, etc.) and the only difference being original state of residence, usually the residency directors will rank the californian higher. Of course, how often do we see two exact applicants who only differ by the state they grew up in? So it is difficult to quantify the cali address theory.

In any event, I doubt being at a cali school gives one a significant advantage at a cali residency at an institution other than their own(ie of course if you go to ucsd u have a higher chance of matching ucsd b/c u are one of their grads). I dont really see how a ucsd med student will be more popular at stanford during match time than a student from university of chicago(all other things being equal). Neither student had time to rotate at a Stanford hospital(unless they did away rotations which BOTH student have the option of doing). Neither student could have done research at Stanford unless it was during the summer between m1-m2. Where is the advantage?

oh ya...I say Cali all the time...I was born around the block from Staples Center, grew up in cali, did my undergrad at UCLA. I'm as Californian as can be...well...except for my current situation. What's wrong with Cali? 😀

UCLAMAN said:

But I would argue that such a high number of graduates matched into california because everyone in the class is from california so it only makes sense that they would apply to a california residency. I don't think schools necessarily "favor" graduates of schools in their region. Rather, the students at those schools are actually from that region (in the case of the UC's) and consequently rank that region's residency programs highly on their matchlists in an attempt to stay in that region.

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But there are a lot of CA residents at non-CA schools, too. Many of them probably rank CA spots highly in an attempt to come back. I don't have stats to back this up, but I suspect that the percentage of CA residents matching into CA residencies is higher at CA schools. The regional factor may not be that important. But, even just the fact that programs take many from their respective institutions is having an advantage over coming from out of state.

But, in any case, I think it all comes down to the individual. As I noted in my previous post, doing well at whatever school you're in is perhaps the most important thing (at least thats what I hear from the Drs - and I do believe it).

Oh, and I made a mistake when I said "I would choose a school entirely based on this" on my last post. I meant to say "I WOULDN'T".

considering UCLA was about 90% CALI residents, I dont see the huge suprise that most matched in CALI. We need more evidence to come up with a conclusion. I think resident1 is right though.

After you filter out people going to their own schools for residency and those who are cali residents going to cali schools, then we can really compare because 1) Schools obviously take their own grads into their own programs and 2) cali residents in cali schools will almost always choose a cali residency.

CALI CALI CALI

im from cali, what else am i gonna call California? CaliFOURnayAYY? wesssside?

never realized people think of California so highly... well, I'll be one of those people going out of state for med school, but I surely plan to come back for residency (UCSF......arhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! *shaking fist*)

ImmunoANT said:

(UCSF......arhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! *shaking fist*)

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I love the visual that comes along with this...

Jalby said:

Allright, I'll call it. I don't believe you are a real person. I think you are cbc. You sure do sound a lot like him and so far all 7 of your posts deal with a subject you know you would have gotten my opinion on. I believe this profile is made up and this isn't a real resident. Most residents wouldn't have time to post two strait days, read a premed forum for a couple of months, know who I am, or even care. You just don't pass the smell test. See if the post quoted sounds like cbc:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1096108#post1096108

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Actually, I am a real person, and no, I'm not whoever this cdc person is. This thread was not directed at you personally, it was intended for everyone on here who is trying to get INTO medical school, not for someone who already is. The only reason I am on this website and posting this is because a close friend of mine's sister came to me really unhappy that she hadn't gotten into a california school, saying she was so worried she wouldn't be able to come back for residency. I asked her where she got such a ridiculous idea from, and she showed me this website and several posts where this is mentioned. After seeing how many people seemed to be making a decision based on this, and understanding how hard it is to make a decision like this in the first place, I decided to post the correct information.
If you have taken this thread personally Jalby, I'm sorry. I'm sure you have given some good advice on this forum, but you have also given some bad. I'm only trying to relieve not only my friend's sister's fears but those of others who use this forum as a main source of information for medical school.
When I say you are dealing with real people though, I'm not sure you understand how much you're influencing the lives of people you don't even know with incorrect information, and using scare tactics to increase your schools reputation. Maybe you yourself have been misinformed about this, and if this is true, then consider yourself corrected and move on.
This is only an internet forum, and I will stress to you all again find people in the real world who can answer your questions! Call or email people familiar with the residency process and explain your concerns in choosing a medical school, I'm sure they would be happy to help.

And Jalby, in response to what you said above, I haven't read this forum for two months, only the last few days for the reason I stated above, and frankly, I don't care who you are or care for anything about you. As I said, this was directed at those who are trying to get into medical school, which is why it is in the PRE-allopathic forum.

Spitting Camel said:

The link you provided is for acceptances to med school, not residency spots. Do you have a link to back up the residency information you have posted?

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spitting, are you going to BU?? congrats.

GTea said:

But there are a lot of CA residents at non-CA schools, too. Many of them probably rank CA spots highly in an attempt to come back. I don't have stats to back this up, but I suspect that the percentage of CA residents matching into CA residencies is higher at CA schools. The regional factor may not be that important. But, even just the fact that programs take many from their respective institutions is having an advantage over coming from out of state.

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yes, there are a lot of non cali residents at other schools. However...if you look at uci practically 100% of their class is californian. if you look at most out of state schools I highly doubt the percentage of californians will hit 50%. So it only makes sense that uci will match a high percentage of their class into a cali residency....EVERYONE(practically) is from cali. if you look at a non cali school and see their matchlist and only see 25% of their entire class match into cali and compare that number to uci's %cali match it is misleading because that non cali school doesnt have as many cali residents as UCI.

If you want to look at percentages then one would have to compare the number of cali matches divided by the number of california residents(or at least the number of students who ranked cali programs highly) at that school. you cant compare a non cali school and use their total class size as the denominator to get the percentage because more likely than not their total class won't all try to get to cali residency spots whereas at a UC I'd imagine most of the class will all rank cali residency spots highest.

docmemi said:

spitting, are you going to BU?? congrats.

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So far, yeah... thanks 🙂 I would love to hear from LLU or UCI, though. BUT, I am really grateful for being accepted to such a wonderful school!

UCLAMAN said:

yes, there are a lot of non cali residents at other schools. However...if you look at uci practically 100% of their class is californian. if you look at most out of state schools I highly doubt the percentage of californians will hit 50%. So it only makes sense that uci will match a high percentage of their class into a cali residency....EVERYONE(practically) is from cali. if you look at a non cali school and see their matchlist and only see 25% of their entire class match into cali and compare that number to uci's %cali match it is misleading because that non cali school doesnt have as many cali residents as UCI.

If you want to look at percentages then one would have to compare the number of cali matches divided by the number of california residents(or at least the number of students who ranked cali programs highly) at that school. you cant compare a non cali school and use their total class size as the denominator to get the percentage because more likely than not their total class won't all try to get to cali residency spots whereas at a UC I'd imagine most of the class will all rank cali residency spots highest.

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Yes, thats what I thought I said: looking at the "percent of CA residents matching in to CA spots" for CA schools vs non-CA schools. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

But, lets say there is no difference between coming from a CA school and a non-CA school. Then, it means that pretty much all people across the country who rank CA residency spots highly get it (since the CA graduates seem to)?

I don't really care about this anymore. I will just stick with my belief that as long as you do well, you'll be alright. And so to those choosing CA vs non-CA schools, I would just go to the school you like the most.

GTea said:

Yes, thats what I thought I said: looking at the "percent of CA residents matching in to CA spots" for CA schools vs non-CA schools. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

But, lets say there is no difference between coming from a CA school and a non-CA school. Then, it means that pretty much all people across the country who rank CA residency spots highly get it (since the CA graduates seem to)?

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but your point is that going to a non cali school lowers that percentage.

i am saying that a non cali school does NOT necessarily have a lower percentage of people that match into a cali residency in light of the fact that not everyone at a non cali school is californian/wants to go to cali for residency.

I don't think CA residents at Northwestern would have much of a problem (not counting the home school advantage) at other CA schools vs. a student at a Cali school. I think that the home school advantage would be big from what I have experienced, but that's my personal opinion. There are plenty of schools out there that I don't think getting a Cali residency should be a big factor, but there is also plenty of schools that I think it is a big factor for. If you want Ortho in Cali, you almost have to be in the top three of your class from a 30-70 level school in order to get it, while you would have to be in the top 20-30 at USC.

Isn't the argument like this: If you goto school at a certain region, the surrounding hospitals are more familiar with the quality of graduates from that school. Also, you make connections with people at the training hospital, which helps you getting a residency spot at that hospital.

But then again, since a significant number of Californians go out of state for med school, the California hospitals are probably now more familiar with the quality of graduates from out-of-state med schools...making it less important to goto a Cali med school for Cali residency...

its so funny that people disregard the advice of people who have gone through the process or have concert knowledge of it . . . .well I guess the joke will be on ya'll when we meet doing residency in CA after I went to an *gasp* out of state school.

celticmists18 said:

its so funny that people disregard the advice of people who have gone through the process or have concert knowledge of it . . . .well I guess the joke will be on ya'll when we meet doing residency in CA after I went to an *gasp* out of state school.

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Or it'll be a "we told you so" when we don't meet for residency in CA because you went out of state. 😉 JK.

Okay, so I took the OP's advice and went and asked real life people....and they said the same thing as the OP.....and that's really good to know, because now I'm not as anxious as I was before 🙂 And although I'd still like to get into USC (for soooo many reasons, this wasn't really one of them anyway), Penn State just looks that much better to me now 🙂