Vent your feelings about milmed gme here

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
countingthedays said:
In sum, Air Force HPSP is a serious often a terminal condition that ruins careers before they even leave the runway. The Army and Navy subtypes are not as deadly, but still approach them with caution. If you are stuck, do four and out (I'm Navy and am doing just that). Work hard as a GMO/FS/UMO, don't be complacent, READ, and take care of your people to the best of your ability; they deserve nothing less. Then get out. This system is only going to get worse.
Click to expand...
i am so sorry i dont have something super good to say.....but that cracked me up 😆
 
countingthedays said:
Disclaimer: I am pretty cynical about the mediocre GME programs in the military, as you can probably tell by the thread title. The current state of military GME is especially sad considering a generation ago Walter Reed, Bethesda, etc. really did have outstanding training programs. Then came TRICARE.
Click to expand...

[Am curious as to why you think your thread is the proper place to vent, as opposed to the 8,000 other threads here on the subject of milmed GME???]

Your points are well-taken but perhaps too general. I'm just an MS, but in speaking with many residents, staff and faculty, it seems that some programs (particularly, medicine, FM, Peds, Obgyn) are quite good (particularly in the Army/Navy), as is the practice after training.

You point about the lack of spots in certain specs is very true, but this is dictated by the needs of the military. So yes, students should very aware of that fact before signing up. If you know for sure you wanna be a ped onc, probably best to go the civilian route for education/training then consider joining. In my personal case, I'm fairly sure I wanna go the medicine route, so mil GME should serve me just fine.

What the hell is going on in the AF? Are they gang raping your guys or what? I find it interesting that, on this forum, even amongst all the nay-sayers, you still see some 'Happy' or 'Satisfied' Army/Navy folks but absolutely no happy AF folks. It must be really bad in AF land. It was definitely bad on the line side; joint ops w/ the AF was always an exercise in futility. Maybe our SECDEF (who seems to be a rather bold guy) will fold the AF back into the Army Air Corps 🙂
 
DrMetal said:
[Am curious as to why you think your thread is the proper place to vent, as opposed to the 8,000 other threads here on the subject of milmed GME???]

Your points are well-taken but perhaps too general. I'm just an MS, but in speaking with many residents, staff and faculty, it seems that some programs (particularly, medicine, FM, Peds, Obgyn) are quite good (particularly in the Army/Navy), as is the practice after training.

You point about the lack of spots in certain specs is very true, but this is dictated by the needs of the military. So yes, students should very aware of that fact before signing up. If you know for sure you wanna be a ped onc, probably best to go the civilian route for education/training then consider joining. In my personal case, I'm fairly sure I wanna go the medicine route, so mil GME should serve me just fine.

What the hell is going on in the AF? Are they gang raping your guys or what? I find it interesting that, on this forum, even amongst all the nay-sayers, you still see some 'Happy' or 'Satisfied' Army/Navy folks but absolutely no happy AF folks. It must be really bad in AF land. It was definitely bad on the line side; joint ops w/ the AF was always an exercise in futility. Maybe our SECDEF (who seems to be a rather bold guy) will fold the AF back into the Army Air Corps 🙂
Click to expand...

Not really a gang-rape. More of a never-ending chain.
 
DrMetal said:
[Am curious as to why you think your thread is the proper place to vent, as opposed to the 8,000 other threads here on the subject of milmed GME???]

Your points are well-taken but perhaps too general. I'm just an MS, but in speaking with many residents, staff and faculty, it seems that some programs (particularly, medicine, FM, Peds, Obgyn) are quite good (particularly in the Army/Navy), as is the practice after training.

You point about the lack of spots in certain specs is very true, but this is dictated by the needs of the military. So yes, students should very aware of that fact before signing up. If you know for sure you wanna be a ped onc, probably best to go the civilian route for education/training then consider joining. In my personal case, I'm fairly sure I wanna go the medicine route, so mil GME should serve me just fine.

What the hell is going on in the AF? Are they gang raping your guys or what? I find it interesting that, on this forum, even amongst all the nay-sayers, you still see some 'Happy' or 'Satisfied' Army/Navy folks but absolutely no happy AF folks. It must be really bad in AF land. It was definitely bad on the line side; joint ops w/ the AF was always an exercise in futility. Maybe our SECDEF (who seems to be a rather bold guy) will fold the AF back into the Army Air Corps 🙂
Click to expand...

I just replied to his other identical post in another thread with similar sentiments regarding the primary care residencies in the AF. These days the trend in AF GME seems to be integration with the other services in some areas of the country (San Antonio/D.C.) and increased utilization of nearby civilian hospitals to supplement the experiences at the military hospitals if they are limited in some way (Dayton/Travis). To me, these actions seem to indicate that the powers at be recognize that their programs have become deficient in some ways and they are attempting to find ways to fix them, a good thing. Also, the combined GME programs between the services definitely blur the lines you are starting to draw. I agree that there seems to be more AF discontent on this board compared with the other services, but I still think it's important to remember that this is a small sample size.
 
countingthedays said:
I don't know about you, but I worked hard to get where I am and take pride in becoming an excellent physician.
Click to expand...
Good, so push towards that goal, given whatever circumstances your in.

countingthedays said:
Why risk all of that by putting yourself at the mercy of "the needs of the Army/Navy/Air Force?"
Click to expand...

Why? Chee I dunno, maybe b/c you have a desire to serve in the military, to serve your country, something like that.

And if that desire is dwarfed by a larger desire to achieve some personal/professional goals that might not agree with military service, then don't join. I think that's what you're trying to say, in your argument against HPSP. And I agree.

countingthedays said:
Finally, as you progress in your medical education, please step back and learn to hold your tongue before casually using rape metaphors. That practice is not endearing.....
Click to expand...

Awe you're not a fan of the rape metaphors? I like 'em, they're rather colorful, in a dark sort of way.
 
countingthedays said:
We are all here to serve our country. That's why I do not regret my time in the Navy one bit and am ok with ..
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem like you're ok with it. Were you mislead when you were signing up for HPSP, were you unaware that this might be a possibility?

Was kidding about the rape metaphors . . .lighten up.

My guess is that you're in intern that didn't get selected for PGY2 and now has to do a GMO tour, right? Just outta curiosity, what were you applying for? And if you're HPSP, why not serve all your time as a GMO and punch out, to pursue civilian GME?
 
countingthedays said:
Disclaimer: I am pretty cynical about the mediocre GME programs in the military, . . . .
Quality GME is worth waiting for. At some point you have to have enough respect for yourself to do your time and sever your ties to milmed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, all that. The problem with HPSP applicants is that they are so far back in the training process at the time of application that it is very difficult for them to appreciate the value of timely and high-quality residency training in a field of their choosing. How many medical students really know with certainty what residency they will want to apply for in three years' time? Not many, usually, and many who do change their minds along the way. Of course, the services, and especially the Navy, exploit this gulf of experience and understanding by over-representing the financial benefits--tuition, stipends, bonuses--and under-representing the limitations in training opportunities. Sure, you can say to an applicant "and if the Navy doesn't have a training program you need, they will sponsor you to do one as a civilian" which might sound encouraging until you realize it means nothing as far as any real reassurance that you actually might receive such an opportunity.

At least now, the criticism is public in ways it couldn't be back in the day, before web forums.
 
countingthedays said:
1)transitional intern.

2) didn't apply for Navy anesthesia b/c I wasn't overly impressed with the programs and they don't take interns straight through anyway (my year was not an exception).

3) I am doing just that, serving my entire obligation as a GMO/FS/UMO time and punching.

4) I will do a civilian anesthesia residency.

5) Lighten up on rape jokes? That attitude is the reason I called you on it. You'd be wise to not lighten up either.

6) Good luck with your own training and career. Sounds like you'll need it.
Click to expand...

You must hate South Park.
 
countingthedays said:
5) Lighten up on rape jokes? That attitude is the reason I called you on it. You'd be wise to not lighten up either.
Click to expand...

:laugh: What attitude you numbn*t?! Do you think I treat rape in a light-hearted manner, in real life, in real situations??? Yes, I'm all for rape, it's a wonderful thing, that's my political platform.

You're wise in selecting something non-clinical.
 
I sympathize with your frustration. It's hard enough being an intern and then finding out about the whole having to apply for PGY2 and GMOs. I think the military would be better off doing away with the GMO tours but I'm skeptical it would happen.

I think its good and noble to serve your country. At the same time I think the government/military has an obligation to provide you with adequate training and resources.

We should organize and purchase a full page ad in the New York Times that would go over real well at the military medicine command headquarters!!
 
This guy actually did some stand-up in Iraq.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hNaFkbZYU[/YOUTUBE]
 
countingthedays said:
The point of my initial post is that HPSP is a huge risk to someone starting medical school. Milmed can be a good place to train (again, as long as it's not the USAF)
Click to expand...

I really do not see this at all. Maybe it is my pre-med ignorance but I have encountered just the opposite opinion concerning AF GME. I live in a military town and have spent the last two years meeting, shadowing, and working alongside physicians and surgeons in my area which consists of a wide variety of military and civilian trained docs in all specialties.

I have never met a civilian trained doc who thinks he has had better training than his military-trained partners, and this includes surgical specialties. And I have spoken with civilian OB and Peds specialists who work at a nearby teaching hospital who have had nothing but great things to say about AF FM residents who rotate and work alongside their own students.

While I have met plenty of military docs counting the days until they seperate, but they have all been due to either deployments or other frustrations with the way the AF runs their clinics.

Im not kidding myself, I know there are problems with AF medicine and I am sacrificing a lot by committing to serve, but I really dont see it being as bad as your portray and standing out as the worst service.
 
teacherman84 said:
I have never met a civilian trained doc who thinks he has had better training than his military-trained partners, and this includes surgical specialties.
Click to expand...
Get to know more docs.

At the very best, military residency programs can be considered as strongly middle-of-the-road. That would be some of the primary care specialties. And surgery and EM are two fields that the military does not have the volume to be considered adequate. No civilian programs in EM or surgery require moonlighting to keep skills up. No military surgical or EM program would make anyone's list of recommended programs, even a very long list.

I agree with orbitsurgMD: HPSP has some big drawbacks that make for unhappy military docs down the road.
1. You don't know as much about medicine as you think you do before you start medical school.
2. You can't say with any kind of authority what your specialty will be.
3. You don't know what your military training will be like, or if you'll get to do it without time off in the middle.
4. You don't know what the military environment will be like in 8 years, so you don't know what your role will be, what tools you'll use, or how prepared you'll be.
 
teacherman84 said:
I have never met a civilian trained doc who thinks he has had better training than his military-trained partners, and this includes surgical specialties.
Click to expand...

I just want to point out that it's easy to say kind words about a training program when its short comings are not your problem...
 
notdeadyet said:
Get to know more docs.

At the very best, military residency programs can be considered as strongly middle-of-the-road. That would be some of the primary care specialties. And surgery and EM are two fields that the military does not have the volume to be considered adequate. No civilian programs in EM or surgery require moonlighting to keep skills up. No military surgical or EM program would make anyone's list of recommended programs, even a very long list.

I agree with orbitsurgMD: HPSP has some big drawbacks that make for unhappy military docs down the road.
1. You don't know as much about medicine as you think you do before you start medical school.
2. You can't say with any kind of authority what your specialty will be.
3. You don't know what your military training will be like, or if you'll get to do it without time off in the middle.
4. You don't know what the military environment will be like in 8 years, so you don't know what your role will be, what tools you'll use, or how prepared you'll be.
Click to expand...

Maybe I do need to, and maybe its the fact that I live in such a military friendly area or spend time mostly with FM docs that I dont get the bad reviews. I still dont think it as dramatic as the OP claims, but again, ignorant pre-med going off what Im told by others.
 
DeadCactus said:
I just want to point out that it's easy to say kind words about a training program when its short comings are not your problem...
Click to expand...

But when you are a civilian trained orthopedist who has brought two military trained surgeons into his already established practice then any short comings they might have become his problems.
 
My plan while I am in medical school is to spend every summer doing a ADT in the army. Will this help my residency application? I am going into medical school hoping to do ER or IM in a hospital will the summer programs help me to getting a good Army training facility? After I finish medical school do I get to pick any Army hospital to work in to "repay" my time? For example if I wanted to work in a MS veterans hospital?

Thanks
 
yes i took the scholarship, so its not just for deployment... even for work you have no choice or you get 3 choices and they choose aamongst the three?


teacherman84 said:
Did you take the hpsp scholarship yet? I think your view of what you are getting into is very skewed. You have no say on where you practice while in the army.
Click to expand...
 
teacherman84 said:
I really do not see this at all. Maybe it is my pre-med ignorance but I have encountered just the opposite opinion concerning AF GME. I live in a military town and have spent the last two years meeting, shadowing, and working alongside physicians and surgeons in my area which consists of a wide variety of military and civilian trained docs in all specialties.

I have never met a civilian trained doc who thinks he has had better training than his military-trained partners, and this includes surgical specialties. And I have spoken with civilian OB and Peds specialists who work at a nearby teaching hospital who have had nothing but great things to say about AF FM residents who rotate and work alongside their own students.

While I have met plenty of military docs counting the days until they seperate, but they have all been due to either deployments or other frustrations with the way the AF runs their clinics.

Im not kidding myself, I know there are problems with AF medicine and I am sacrificing a lot by committing to serve, but I really dont see it being as bad as your portray and standing out as the worst service.
Click to expand...

You are very naive if you think most military residencies hold a candle to top civilian programs. I was faculty at two of the very best anesthesia and surgical training programs in the country. We did cases every day that the military programs would rarely, if ever, do. That's not an exaggeration, it's a fact. I was staff in the navy for 3 years. Primary care may be more equivalent.
I will tell you that military residents are, for the most part, far more mature and reliable than their civilian counterparts. At the end of your training you will be competent, but you will not have the same level of experience and confidence with challenging cases, and there may be many things that you have not seen before. You are also at the will of navy staffing. If you only have one neurosurgeon or vascular guy for a year or two, your experience/training will suffer. There are many cases that are never done in the military system. They get farmed out to very experienced experts at the major medical centers. That's just the way it is.
 
faith2 said:
My plan while I am in medical school is to spend every summer doing a ADT in the army. Will this help my residency application?
Click to expand...

Who knows? If you do well, they might like you and want you, but there will be others applying with higher standing possibly, academically and for having done tours as GMOs.

faith2 said:
I am going into medical school hoping to do ER or IM in a hospital will the summer programs help me to getting a good Army training facility?
Click to expand...

Maybe. Maybe not. For ER, I imagine there will be other interested applicants for PGY2 slots as it is a popular residency field. So much depends on the attrition rate, the numbers of applicants from the field, the numbers of interested interns, all three to four years from now. Impossible to say, really.

I recommend you include, even rank highly, a choice of deferment to civilian training in EM. If you don't do this, you will almost certainly not receive a deferment and may have to do GMO duty if the applicant field for Army programs is crowded. Consider a deferment as your first choice. If they think you will only accept an Army slot, they might take their chances and give you only an internship and possibly a GMO tour, figuring you will serve payback both before and after residency, good for them, maybe or maybe not good for you. Also, it is no fun being sent out to GMO land not knowing whether you are going to be picked up for a residency slot. It is actually pretty demoralizing to be left hanging in the breeze.

faith2 said:
After I finish medical school do I get to pick any Army hospital to work in to "repay" my time?
Click to expand...

No, not really. You can rank the medical centers you want for your internship, but they aren't obligated to give you your preference, or offer you anything more than an internship. (They can even defer you for only one year to do a civilian internship, if they want.) As for where you do your active-duty service in contract repayment, your orders will likely be for only one year unless you are selected for training straight through, which may or may not be possible in EM. Whether you get to train straight through or not, you will at some point confer with a detailer, one for GMOs or for ED or IM graduates (depending) and at that point you may be offered options for assignment or locations. But keep in mind, the place you want most to go won't necessarily be available at the time you are assigned. You may be at most allowed a choice from among available open billets. Very desirable locations are frequently available first to those who have seniority, often by virtue of having served first somewhere less desirable.

From what you posted, you don't seem to have a very clear understanding yet of how residency and job assignment goes in the services.


faith2 said:
For example if I wanted to work in a MS veterans hospital?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Not very likely. VA medical centers are civilian institutions run by the Department of Veterans Affairs, not the military. There are no Army medical training hospitals in MS. Your choices will be Washington, D.C. (Bethesda, MD, now after BRAC), San Antonio, TX, Augusta, GA, Takoma, WA, El Paso, TX, and Honolulu, HI.

I think that's it.
 
Last edited:
faith2 said:
My plan while I am in medical school is to spend every summer doing a ADT in the army. Will this help my residency application?
Click to expand...

Not really, though it may help a little to have had some face time with the people running the programs you're applying to.

faith2 said:
After I finish medical school do I get to pick any Army hospital to work in to "repay" my time?
Click to expand...

No, of course not. Otherwise Tripler would be overstaffed, and no one would be up at that weather station above the arctic circle. You'll be given a "preference list" to fill out, but there generally isn't any "picking" involved on the part of a newly minted attending.
 
IlDestriero said:
You are very naive if you think most military residencies hold a candle to top civilian programs. I was faculty at two of the very best anesthesia and surgical training programs in the country. We did cases every day that the military programs would rarely, if ever, do. That's not an exaggeration, it's a fact. I was staff in the navy for 3 years. Primary care may be more equivalent.
I will tell you that military residents are, for the most part, far more mature and reliable than their civilian counterparts. At the end of your training you will be competent, but you will not have the same level of experience and confidence with challenging cases, and there may be many things that you have not seen before. You are also at the will of navy staffing. If you only have one neurosurgeon or vascular guy for a year or two, your experience/training will suffer. There are many cases that are never done in the military system. They get farmed out to very experienced experts at the major medical centers. That's just the way it is.
Click to expand...


i did claim my pre-med ignorance but i never said military gme would compete with top programs...i just said they werent as dismall as they were being made out to be by the OP. Yes many surgeons and EM docs i spoke with complain about case loads and variety of cases but this was after training. A lot of the AF surgeons and em docs i met trained at military/civilian programs, maybe this was the reason thewy had less complaints.

again, im not claiming to be an authority, but just relaying what i was told in talking with a dozen or so surgeons and a couple dozen others
 
teacherman84 said:
But when you are a civilian trained orthopedist who has brought two military trained surgeons into his already established practice then any short comings they might have become his problems.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.


faith2 said:
My plan while I am in medical school is to spend every summer doing a ADT in the army. Will this help my residency application? I am going into medical school hoping to do ER or IM in a hospital will the summer programs help me to getting a good Army training facility? After I finish medical school do I get to pick any Army hospital to work in to "repay" my time? For example if I wanted to work in a MS veterans hospital?

Thanks
Click to expand...

How people sign such an extensive contract with so little knowledge of what it entails always amazes me.

This is why the military gets away with the current problems in .mil med. Tons of pre-meds who would sign up for pancreatic cancer if you offered them free schooling and put the cancer clause in small enough print.

Then the pre-meds who actually do their research come here and see people ask basic questions about their already signed contract followed by threads full of ranting about what a scam the military is. That's not a dig at the people who share their experiences with on these forums. Those experiences are a valuable resource and greatly appreciated.

But seriously, how is a prospective HPSPer supposed to come here and see the rants about mil-med, see the people who don't understand the basics of their contract, and not connect the dots to conclude "Well, that doesn't apply to me. I know what I'm getting into and these guys are just whiners who thought they signed up for free money"? It may not be the reality (and most likely is far from it), but it's certainly the appearance.

The military's got the perfect scam. The primary substrate blocks the negative feedback inhibition of the product and allows the enzyme to bind secondary substrates. And so the endless march of disposable physicians continues on in .mil med...

More just an observation than me having any real point to make.
 
holy crap....i thought I did my homework when deciding to move forward with milmed. my biggest concern about becoming a physician is getting the most training so that I can be as competent and trained as i can possibly be when it comes to difficult cases. i'm sitting here wondering what the heck i could be signing up for (i'm still waiting to hear if i'm approved yet, i havent signed a single contract as of yet)

anyone who knows what they're talking about willing to allow me to PM them with some specific question?
 
I just wanted to throw it out there that the OP is a Navy intern now going to GMO, but chose instead to focus on bashing AF GME. It has its shortcomings, but with no first hand knowledge what gives you the grounds to attack it? The AF certainly trains more people straight through, and less often utilizes residency trained docs as GMO-types than say the Army. I'm just confused as to where he's coming from.
 
AFDuck said:
I just wanted to throw it out there that the OP is a Navy intern now going to GMO, but chose instead to focus on bashing AF GME. It has its shortcomings, but with no first hand knowledge what gives you the grounds to attack it? The AF certainly trains more people straight through, and less often utilizes residency trained docs as GMO-types than say the Army. I'm just confused as to where he's coming from.
Click to expand...

All of the other services bash the chair force.
Nothing new about that. 😉
 
AFDuck said:
I just wanted to throw it out there that the OP is a Navy intern now going to GMO, but chose instead to focus on bashing AF GME. It has its shortcomings, but with no first hand knowledge what gives you the grounds to attack it? The AF certainly trains more people straight through, and less often utilizes residency trained docs as GMO-types than say the Army. I'm just confused as to where he's coming from.
Click to expand...

The Air Force gets more criticism here in large part, I believe, because that service has been substantially more "proactive" in the milmed quest to downsize/rightsize itself.

Army, Navy, and Air Force GME have all been damaged by Tricare, but I think most would agree the Air Force is further along the path of self-destruction. I also personally believe there are ... cultural ... differences specific to that service's medical corps that aren't helping, but that's a whole 'nother thread.


cuadrado said:
anyone who knows what they're talking about willing to allow me to PM them with some specific question?
Click to expand...

Feel free, but you might as well post the questions here so others can benefit from them too.
 
Current HPSP on full deferment in anesthesia at a Civ program. I have multiple friends how have GMO'd and those like myself who trained straight through in a relatively competitive field like anesthesia. If you have any questions I will be more than happy to answer them. I can say I am pleased with my navy experience so far.
 
pgg said:
Feel free, but you might as well post the questions here so others can benefit from them too.
Click to expand...
I'm usually good about doing my homework...but I didn't even think about reading the threads here when I was considering the HPSP. I've never heard of GMOs until yesterday (yeah, i'm that far behind in my milmed knowledge). i've been trying to search and read all the threads i can about it for the last several hours and I think i might have found most of my answers. maybe some knowledgeable person can correct me as i lay out my discoveries/questions unanswered

1. you can be pulled out after your 1st year of resident to serve as a GMO. that worries me a lot
2. I dont quite understand this still, but if i dont match in an army residency but I do in a civilian i can apply for a deferment and complete my civilian and then return to repay my years. so if that happens and the military says "no, we wont let you defer we need you as a GMO" i am tough out of luck and must do that and then try again for residency 2-3 years down the road???

I'm waiting to hear back from the board and I'm planning on going through the Army. I'm 100% certain that I'm going into FP (its what i've wanted to do, and i have no desire to go for any "competitive" specialty)
Thing that scares me the most is not getting the training I need. I've read in some threads that people had to moonlight to get the training they needed to keep up with skills they could get in any other regular residency (civilian rather)

my little disclaimer
I'm posting these questions as per the suggesting of he who i quoted. Yes I'm sure I could have found all the answers to all of my questions had I dusted off the cobwebs of SDN archives, but I like current answers that arent from some attending that hasnt posted since 2002. believe me, I have been looking and reading for a few hours now (and sweating bullets while reading horror stories about what I could be getting myself into).
 
cuadrado said:
I'm usually good about doing my homework...but I didn't even think about reading the threads here when I was considering the HPSP. I've never heard of GMOs until yesterday (yeah, i'm that far behind in my milmed knowledge). i've been trying to search and read all the threads i can about it for the last several hours and I think i might have found most of my answers. maybe some knowledgeable person can correct me as i lay out my discoveries/questions unanswered

1. you can be pulled out after your 1st year of resident to serve as a GMO. that worries me a lot
2. I dont quite understand this still, but if i dont match in an army residency but I do in a civilian i can apply for a deferment and complete my civilian and then return to repay my years. so if that happens and the military says "no, we wont let you defer we need you as a GMO" i am tough out of luck and must do that and then try again for residency 2-3 years down the road???

I'm waiting to hear back from the board and I'm planning on going through the Army. I'm 100% certain that I'm going into FP (its what i've wanted to do, and i have no desire to go for any "competitive" specialty)
Thing that scares me the most is not getting the training I need. I've read in some threads that people had to moonlight to get the training they needed to keep up with skills they could get in any other regular residency (civilian rather)

my little disclaimer
I'm posting these questions as per the suggesting of he who i quoted. Yes I'm sure I could have found all the answers to all of my questions had I dusted off the cobwebs of SDN archives, but I like current answers that arent from some attending that hasnt posted since 2002. believe me, I have been looking and reading for a few hours now (and sweating bullets while reading horror stories about what I could be getting myself into).
Click to expand...

-I'm not sure how anyone could have researched HPSP and not come across point #1. It's a definite possibility. It's my understanding that it happens less often in the Army, but it's always possible.
-Yes, the Army could choose not to defer you out to a civilian program, and you would be out of luck. Yes, you might have to delay your training for a few years.

These are the major drawbacks of HPSP, and the quite glaring ones at that. It's hard for me to believe that someone doesn't come across this during their research. There's a difference in being naive about the chances of that happening, and not even realizing it's a possibility. If you haven't signed yet, you need to seriously reconsider your plans.

You say you want to do FP, but MANY people change their minds about their specialty in medical school. Once you start to rotate through things, you could very well have a different opinion. I NEVER wanted to work with kids or do primary care, and now I'm going to go into peds. You just never know.
 
cuadrado said:
1. you can be pulled out after your 1st year of resident to serve as a GMO. that worries me a lot
Click to expand...

Yes. Less common in the Army than the Navy. Unusual for FP in any service. But it happens.

cuadrado said:
2. I dont quite understand this still, but if i dont match in an army residency but I do in a civilian i can apply for a deferment and complete my civilian and then return to repay my years. so if that happens and the military says "no, we wont let you defer we need you as a GMO" i am tough out of luck and must do that and then try again for residency 2-3 years down the road???
Click to expand...

Mostly right.

First and foremost though, it is a BAD idea to make any plans or decisions in which your hope for a deferment is important. Deferments are unpredictable and though I have no numbers, my understanding is that a LOT of HPSP'ers ask for them but relatively few get them. Moreover, deferments are generally not "earned" and you therefore have little control here ... if you're a stellar candidate with great grades and test scores, the military is just as likely to view you as someone they want in a military program and refuse to defer you to civilian land.

The military match date is mid December, and the civilian match date is several months later (March?). This means that if the military either fails to grant a deferment, or doesn't have room for you as an intern and defers you for ONLY one year to do a civilian internship before calling you back for inservice residency or GMO, you'll know several months before the civilian match so you can withdraw from it or finalize your rank order list as appropriate. But December is too late to START applying/interviewing for civilian programs, so there is a very high chance you'll put a lot of time, effort, and money into the civilian match only to discover that the military has other plans for you.

cuadrado said:
I'm 100% certain that I'm going into FP (its what i've wanted to do, and i have no desire to go for any "competitive" specialty) Thing that scares me the most is not getting the training I need. I've read in some threads that people had to moonlight to get the training they needed to keep up with skills they could get in any other regular residency (civilian rather)
Click to expand...

FP training within the military is very good. But, even though you're 100% sure you want to do FP, you should at least consider the possibility that you, like MOST medical students, will change your mind. You'll be exposed to many specialties in a depth and way you never have before, and you might decide that you prefer another specialty.

I don't know what kind of background you have or why you've decided on FP, but very few people find that their pre-med conceptions of medicine and their own plans mesh with reality after a few months or a year of clinical work as a med student.


If you want to serve, my personal belief is that FAP is a better route than HPSP. There's less $ in FAP but you'll retain far greater control over how and where you're trained.
 
thank you very much for the responses thus far. As per the FP, thats what i've wanted to do since i can remember. it runs in the family, and my desk is pretty much waiting for me when I get done with training. I did explore other areas of medicine during my time as an undergrad (several IM specialists, EM docs, surgery as well as FP). I know that my depth of knowledge of those specialties is nowhere near what I'll get while in med school and thereafter, but I do know that FP is what I'll be going into, it IS what i want to do as a doctor.
 
i'm just struggling with the fact that, how does military medicine get ANYONE to join given the negative impact it could/does have. surely not everyone is going in as ignorant as I was
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Monty Python
Today's feel-good story
Replies
1
Views
710
armytrainingsir
armytrainingsir
tressy
EMDP2 FY25
Replies
20
Views
4K
tressy
tressy
armytrainingsir
what are your DOGE VA, mil med predictions?
2
Replies
58
Views
5K
militaryPHYS
militaryPHYS
R
Question about IM fellowships
Replies
31
Views
3K
Gastrapathy
Gastrapathy
MedicalCorpse
Meet Your Military Health Care Family!
Replies
20
Views
2K
HighPriest
HighPriest
Top