This may sound like a strange question given that most M.D./Ph.D. students pursue science Ph.D.s, but is it possible to apply to an M.D./Ph.D. program for a Ph.D. in mathematics?
Mathematics Ph.D.
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Math departments require a lot of teaching and hold their students a long time. Go for something like computational bio or Bioengineering and take a lot of math classes. It'll help you get through the program faster and more smoothly.
The reason I want to go into a mathematics Ph.D./M.D. program is simply out of interest (right now). A lot of higher mathematics has no application to medicine, but it is something in which I would like to continue doing research. Also, by the time I graduate with my bachelor's, I will have completed about 14 graduate courses in mathematics, so I don't think I will have to spend the entire 4 years on my Ph.D.
That being said, are admissions officers looking for M.D./Ph.D. candidates who plan on combining their skills learned in each discipline and applying them to a common area of research or do they just like to see that the candidate is qualified for each respective program?
That being said, are admissions officers looking for M.D./Ph.D. candidates who plan on combining their skills learned in each discipline and applying them to a common area of research or do they just like to see that the candidate is qualified for each respective program?
Some programs, emory for example, take applicants for non traditional PhDs. I know that there are occasionally people who do their PhD in philosophy, which is also somewhat odd.
Programs will take you, but you need to figure out your career plans. If you can't answer these questions, then you will not get in.
--Why medical school? It will not affect your research at all since they are completely different.
--How would you balance research with clinical duties? I'm not sure how much time is necessary to do research in math; however, it is typically difficult to get grants in the biological/biomedical sciences if you spend less than 80% research.
--Do you need the PhD to do the research you want to do? This is probably a yes for math, but i'm not sure.
These are questions that would be stressed on your primary application and particularly on your interviews.
Programs will take you, but you need to figure out your career plans. If you can't answer these questions, then you will not get in.
--Why medical school? It will not affect your research at all since they are completely different.
--How would you balance research with clinical duties? I'm not sure how much time is necessary to do research in math; however, it is typically difficult to get grants in the biological/biomedical sciences if you spend less than 80% research.
--Do you need the PhD to do the research you want to do? This is probably a yes for math, but i'm not sure.
These are questions that would be stressed on your primary application and particularly on your interviews.
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Not necessarily true. You could be interested in mathematically modeling disease development, for example.
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Who does those weird PhDs? 😉
This one. You make a case for the type of research you want to do when you apply (or you can just say you're unsure if it's some type of cell & molecular bio), and if you've shown that you've done it or related, have a high GPA, and a high MCAT, that's all you need.
aka genetics, public health, or bioinformatics???
I doubt that is what he is looking for. Although, I might be wrong
Yes, those are areas in which you could also model disease. But that doesn't mean you can't do that (or want to do that) with a math degree 🙂.
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Knowing a lot of math majors and math PhDs, graduate work in pure mathematics is incredibly basic and far removed from anything else except the field itself. There are many different ways to do applied math and people have named some examples of good fields, but if you're looking to do pure math, then maybe the MD/PhD isn't exactly what you're looking for.
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You could, it's just you have to think of what will make this combined program more smooth. The connections with the math department tend not to be well established and in addition the hurdles the math department will put on your PhD will tend to lengthen your training with little to no long-term gain. When there is a path of less resistance you should take it in this game.
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I highly advise against it. I was considering doing a physics PhD in a non-medical field (e.g. particles). What's the point? You can't do both medicine and mathematics well. The days of the polymath are practically over. Focus on one or two things - one of them time-intensive, such as a medicine OR mathematics as a career, and perhaps a hobby like painting, foreign languages, etc.
You'd have to be independently wealthy or have a wealthy benefactor and have abundant free time to pursue multiple subjects seriously, and usually they are related. Even the famous polymaths usually did math or science along with philosophy, theology, art, or some other intellectual subject. Medicine is too hands-on and time-consuming to pursue something parallel like that.
As for the PhD, it would be a nightmare. They wouldn't recognize ANY of your medschool classes, you'd have to complete ALL of their requirements, including likely massive TAing, and it would just be a complete waste of time and downright stupid.
If you want to mathematically model biology, do biophysics, although - and I'm going to get attacked for this - I think even biophysics has a lot less to do with medicine than the more cookbook fields. The one exception are things like radiology and radiation/oncology, where biophysics or medical physics can be of great use in developing new modalities - but, again, that's just a very few fields.
You'd have to be independently wealthy or have a wealthy benefactor and have abundant free time to pursue multiple subjects seriously, and usually they are related. Even the famous polymaths usually did math or science along with philosophy, theology, art, or some other intellectual subject. Medicine is too hands-on and time-consuming to pursue something parallel like that.
As for the PhD, it would be a nightmare. They wouldn't recognize ANY of your medschool classes, you'd have to complete ALL of their requirements, including likely massive TAing, and it would just be a complete waste of time and downright stupid.
If you want to mathematically model biology, do biophysics, although - and I'm going to get attacked for this - I think even biophysics has a lot less to do with medicine than the more cookbook fields. The one exception are things like radiology and radiation/oncology, where biophysics or medical physics can be of great use in developing new modalities - but, again, that's just a very few fields.
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God, this board is full of geniuses, a ex-budding HEP?
Agree completely. Just don't do it (pure PhD in math).
As far as more applied mathematics go, it can be very valuable. My PhD is mostly quantitative. Two other MD/PhDs did their PhD in the same center, similar type work. There was an ex-string theorist in our center as well. I'm imaging my PhD is @ the level of math as a low end comp sci/condensed matter theory project, although strictly I'm in neither field. The advantage is people TEND to get out faster, and the work is much more controllable. The disadvantage is you do need to know quite a bit more math before you got in, which may or may not be an issue.
You *can* do an applied PhD and still do a deep math project. You can learn deep math during it--you just have to do it on your own. In fact, even if you do applied stuff, the best people taught themselves the more theoretical stuff anyway, and you tend to have a broader background--some theoretical comp sci, some statistics.
Agree completely. Just don't do it (pure PhD in math).
As far as more applied mathematics go, it can be very valuable. My PhD is mostly quantitative. Two other MD/PhDs did their PhD in the same center, similar type work. There was an ex-string theorist in our center as well. I'm imaging my PhD is @ the level of math as a low end comp sci/condensed matter theory project, although strictly I'm in neither field. The advantage is people TEND to get out faster, and the work is much more controllable. The disadvantage is you do need to know quite a bit more math before you got in, which may or may not be an issue.
You *can* do an applied PhD and still do a deep math project. You can learn deep math during it--you just have to do it on your own. In fact, even if you do applied stuff, the best people taught themselves the more theoretical stuff anyway, and you tend to have a broader background--some theoretical comp sci, some statistics.
For you guys who did the PhD in a quantitative-heavy field, did you already have a strong background in math? I currently don't have anything beyond the minimal college level (calculus I, II, stats), but I'm definitely looking forward for more heavy-meath research. Can I still make it up and are labs usually open for such students?
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It depends on the lab and the area of research. It also depends whether you have some other useful skills, such as computer or engineering skills to offer the lab. If the lab is heavily computational but also has some other work going on, you can sometimes sneak in as the chemist or what have you. It all depends.
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I was trying to do my PhD in math and it was a losing proposition. I encountered a lot of resistance from programs despite pretty good reasoning for my interest in the math PhD. The only program where I could have done a math PhD was UIUC due to the structure of the program. I was accepted into their math department but would have had to fulfill all requirements for a math PhD. Also, funding for math PhD students is usually through TAing. I was looking at a minimum of 10 years for the whole dual degree. So I decided to go to another school and do my PhD in engineering. Honestly, while it seemed like a good idea at the time, I do not get excited about math as much anymore as I did before the two years of medical school. Once you are out of doing math for a while it's hard to get back into it. Now, I am quite glad I encountered the resistance I did and decided on engineering.
I am heading in this direction, focusing on applying mathematics/quantum field theory/statistical physics to population medicine, genetics, and mathematical biology in general. It takes a lot of work and a lot of self-teaching to switch fields completely in research (I have minimal background in either physics or mathematics), but that is how major progress is made in research sometimes. As long as you have a direction and solid credentials (maybe some mathematics or physics research), it shouldn't be a problem to want to do a non-traditional area. However, there are very few schools that offer this to an applicant. I would suggest contacting the schools before applying...
Is the necessarily true? All of the good mathematics PhD programs I am aware require a good amount of courses and teaching, and are also quite strict 4 year programs. There are also no publishing requirements for the mathematics PhD, usually.
That said, if you want to be a mathematician you should probs just go ahead and try to be one sans MD. Pure mathematics is a beast that stands alone. Applied math, on the other hand, has a LOT of use various fields of biomedical research.
