MBBS/MBChB not MD, Right?

Originally posted by InfiniteUni
Australian schools are just like UK & Irish schools in that they award an MBBS or MBChB rather than an MD, right?

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Yes. If you see a British physician with M.D. after their name, that usually means they have a research degree as well as their medical degree. An M.D. awarded in the U.K. can be obtained by physicians that do two years of research and they must submit a thesis...it takes less time than doing a Ph.D. and most only do to it make themselves competitive for promotion in the clinical realms.

MBBS (bachelor of medicine and bachelor of surgery) is the U.K./Australian "doctor of medicine" degree. MBChB is the same thing, but in Latin ("Chirurgie" is Latin for surgery). You sometimes see other permutations: BMBS, MBBChir etc. and they mean the same thing. I hope that helps.

In Australia, the MD is a higher doctorate and is therefore more distinguished than the PhD (see http://www.dest.gov.au/noosr/cep/australia/cepaust7.htm#7-7-4). Indeed, it is common for the MB BS to be earned, followed by the PhD, and then the MD.

However, upon earning an MBBS from an Aussie school, you will be permitted to use the MD title back in the US (should you choose to come back to the US for your residency and practicise). However, keep in mind that a US MD isn't the same as a UK/European MD, where that qualification is one higher than a regular medical degree.

Originally posted by mic
In Australia, the MD is a higher doctorate and is therefore more distinguished than the PhD (see http://www.dest.gov.au/noosr/cep/australia/cepaust7.htm#7-7-4). Indeed, it is common for the MB BS to be earned, followed by the PhD, and then the MD.

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The converse is true in the UK where PhD and MD are both research degrees but a PhD is 3 years research and a MD only 2 years so the PhD is generally seen as being more distinguished in some peoples eyes. However, most clinicians have neither!

Originally posted by mic
In Australia, the MD is a higher doctorate and is therefore more distinguished than the PhD (see http://www.dest.gov.au/noosr/cep/australia/cepaust7.htm#7-7-4). Indeed, it is common for the MB BS to be earned, followed by the PhD, and then the MD.

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That's really interesting. If you wish to be a physician/scientist in the U.K., a Ph.D. is seen as more academic than an M.D. since it takes longer and is more focused. An M.D. for research is only two years but a Ph.D. is at least three and the Ph.D. thesis is usually longer. Again, this is in the U.K. How long does and M.D. take to complete in Australia?

I believe that mic is confused about the situation regarding MD and PhD in the Aus and the UK. The two systems are identical. In the UK, we also have higher doctorates, such as DSC (Doctor of science) which are awarded by an individual for their contribution to their field of study. The concept of an MD as a higher doctorate is slightly misleading. This is because those awarded the bachelors degree MBBS, BM, ... etc, are misleadingly referred to as doctors (we are infact honourary doctors and it is the PhDs who are real doctors). Consequently, the MD is clumped together with the higher doctorates. MDs (both in the UK, Aus and all commonwealth countries) are awarded after approx 2 years of clinical research and the completion of a thesis. They are not awarded as recognition for excellence in one's field of study.

Previously, an MD was more revered (in medicine) than a PhD as clinical research was seen as the benchmark for clinicians and subsequently, almost all the older consultants have an MD whereas a greater proportion of the newer consultants have a PhD. With increasing reliance on the scientific basis of medicine, and the general acceptance that a PhD is more focused and technically more rigorous, Phds are now regarded as a higher standard of qualification for physicians who want to become academics. Increasingly however, PhDs are becoming a requirement even for obtaining a consultant post (especially in medicine and its subspecialties)

Yes, this does make sense. I was not suggesting that the Australian and UK systems differ, but I was just sharing some info I got from Australia. A higher doctorate is supposed to be more distinguished than a PhD, but as you've described, it's give and take in the case of the MD when you think about its career-boosting value. Indeed, I have not seen any young people with an MD.