Another lame "what are my chances" post...

Smitty · Aug 11, 2004

I'm a 4th year med student applying to path this fall and wondering about my chances.

The good:
AMG from good school
Step 1/2 is 232/228
Good LORs
Lotsa volunteer experience

The bad (and ugly):

No research experience
3rd year rank SUCKS ASS!!!

I just got back my 3rd year only rank and I am in lowest 10%! WTF?! My rank for the first 2 years was slightly above the middle. How do they average this stuff? I never failed or even received a low pass for any of my rotations, in fact, I received lots of good feedback on my evals. I don't know if it's just because we have such an anal class and lotsa people made at least 1 honors, bumping me further down. I received a pass in all my rotations. So far I've received Honors in my path elective and may get honors or close in other 4th year rotations. I know and get along well with many of the path residents at my school and would like to come here. I'm just afraid they'll take a look at my rank and be like "Whoa!". I know that ERAS info I enter doesn't have a place for rank, but I'm sure my transcripts will show rank. YAAH, ANDY, and anyone else, am I totally screwed? I'm not trying for top 10 necessarily, just want a strong program. -Thanks

"If there's one thing Dr. Atkins taught us, it's that we're all gonna die!"
Ruby Ann Boxcar-"Ruby Ann's Down Home Trailer Park Cookbook"

b&ierstiefel · Aug 11, 2004

I believe that applicants can have different strengths in different areas. At the end of the day, I believe admissions will be a crapshoot. This was my conclusion about medical school admissions after experiencing it.

All I can say is, do your best given what you got. We can't change the past...now, for application purposes, it's all about highlighting and emphasizing your strengths and downplaying your weaknesses.

From what you say in your post, you definitely have a considerable number of strong points to your application.

yaah · Aug 11, 2004

You're not screwed, man. I don't know what to make out of the grading, what that means. If you pass all your classes that's often good enough for anyone. Maybe they like to see the occasional honors grade.

I once read that grades in years 1-2 were more important when applying to path than when applying to any other field. I'm not sure if that is true or not.

Your 4th year grades (at least the first few months) will be on your transcript, and seem to demonstrate improvement, which is always good. Don't stress too much. You'll do fine, I think.

Logos' · Aug 11, 2004

deschutes · Aug 11, 2004

There are five categories of rank on our evaluation forms:

Unsatisfactory/Below Expected Level/At Expected Level/Above Expected Level/Outstanding.

These "Honors" that you guys talk about - where do they fit?

yaah · Aug 11, 2004

deschutes said:
There are five categories of rank on our evaluation forms:

Unsatisfactory/Below Expected Level/At Expected Level/Above Expected Level/Outstanding.

These "Honors" that you guys talk about - where do they fit?

My clinical year grades were on exactly the same scale, except "unsatisfactory" was replaced by "fail." In general, the highest grade is considered honors, although sometimes the top two grades are considered honors. Basically, it's all a crapshoot, and it will depend on who is viewing your transcript. My school also sent out a histogram with my deans letter showing what % of students fell in each category. Thus if you got expected in pedes (like me) you were in the bottom third of the class.

For some clerkships, the above expected was considered honors. My year, for example, the OB clerkship directors didn't give out a single outstanding. The pedes folks, however, gave it to about 25% of the class (you got honors by saying you wanted to go into pediatrics and by being witnessed looking for Big Bird in some kid's ear.) When I looked into kids' ears, I asked them to be good and hold still or it would hurt more. Then I pulled out a thoracentesis kit and showed them the needle and said if they weren't good I would look with that. They were mostly pretty good, and I got very good at the ear exam. Strangely enough though, wasn't enough for honors. 😕 😕

yaah · Aug 12, 2004

You know, Smitty, Drswam's plea for advice on chances of matching has twice the posts and twice the views of yours. I wonder if that hurts or helps your chances? 😉

Once again though, I derailed a thread with my usual complaining about clinical medicine. Sorry.

Smitty · Aug 13, 2004

Yeah, Drswam's thread looks so thick and juicy, like a Hardee's thick and juicy burger, while my pitiful thread hangs flaccid and wussy. Oh, curse you Drswam!
No, seriously, thanks for the replies you guys. I guess I just kind of wigged out a little when I got my ranking. And as for derailing by discussing your hatred of clinical medicine, that's totally OK. I too am no big fan of most of clinical medicine, even though for the last few weeks I have actually been reconsidering psych of all things! I guess my apathetic stance towards the clinical part of med school is what got me into this mess to begin with, but for heaven's sake, we all know that 3rd year is mostly subjective bull****! I just hope the PDs at the schools I apply to will remember back to the stone ages when they went to med school and cut me a lttle slack!

"If there's one thing Dr. Atkins taught us, it's that we're all gonna die!"
Ruby Ann Boxcar-"Ruby Ann's Down Home Trailer Park Cookbook"

yaah · Aug 13, 2004

Smitty said:
Yeah, Drswam's thread looks so thick and juicy, like a Hardee's thick and juicy burger, while my pitiful thread hangs flaccid and wussy. Oh, curse you Drswam!

Considering psych? 😕 😕 Horrors!

The main reason I didn't like psych was because there were two main populations of patients, and these two populations comprised 99% of the total patients.

1) Those who don't want your help. They say things like, "I don't need a shrink." "This is not all in my head." "Shrinks are for wussies." They basically use the word "shrink" too much.
2) Those who want your help but either don't need it or don't like your advice. Take this pill. that gives me decreased libido. OK, so your severely depressed but you're worried more about your libido? Sounds like maybe you aren't that depressed. Screw you! I'm going home! Or, they just want to talk too much. Or, this patient: I need Ativan. It's the only thing that works. I would like to put you on Paxil. But I need relief now! The Paxil will help you better over time. Can I get Ativan until it kicks in?

If you can put up with psych patients, go for it. I never could. Especially those kids with ADD. I wanted to be like the "instructional video" on an episode of south park, where the guy's cure for ADD was to yell at the children and smack them around until they learned their place. Not that I condone hitting children, but you have to set boundaries.

b&ierstiefel · Aug 13, 2004

yaah said:
Especially those kids with ADD. I wanted to be like the "instructional video" on an episode of south park, where the guy's cure for ADD was to yell at the children and smack them around until they learned their place. Not that I condone hitting children, but you have to set boundaries.

To kid #1: *smack* SHUT UP AND STUDY
Kid #2 starts crying: *smack* STOP CRYING AND STUDY
Kid #3 quickly shuts up before getting smacked.

Man that episode was hilarious...that was the episode where every kid in South Park was on Ritalin right? :laugh:

yaah · Aug 13, 2004

AndyMilonakis said:
Man that episode was hilarious...that was the episode where every kid in South Park was on Ritalin right?

Yeah they put everyone on Ritalin - the way they diagnosed ADD was to go to the doctor, who would read the entire "Great Gatsby" aloud to them, and then ask them an inane question, like, "what kind of car is referenced on page 120?" If they didn't know, they clearly had ADD. Interestingly, Ritalin made all of the kids Phil Collins fans. Then they remembered how much they hated Phil Collins.

Smitty · Aug 13, 2004

Yeah, psych can get a little annoying. Today was my last day of Psych AI/SubI/whatever. Had a manic lady that security had to hold down while the nurse put a shot of Ativan in her butt! Sheesh, what a day. I guess the freaks do come out of the woodwork on Fri. 13th. It seems like during my Psych AI I either hated psych one day or loved it the next. Every day on path was was about the same: interesting but not especially thrilling. Then again, it's hard to tell what path is like from the elective. Oh, and Phil Collins ROCKS THE HOUSE!

"If there's one thing Dr. Atkins taught us, it's that we're all gonna die!"
Ruby Ann Boxcar-"Ruby Ann's Down Home Trailer Park Cookbook

deschutes · Aug 13, 2004

I have rather fond memories of Psych. PsychMDs were the guys who said, "Whaddaya wanna do call for? Go home - you have a lifetime of call ahead of you anyway."

My preceptor made superb book recommendations e.g. Bly's "Iron John" and Styron's "Darkness Visible". It was the first time I heard of those books. Not sure if the patients ever got around to reading them, but to me they were infinitely more appealing than the DSM-IV. I had never thought of depression as a madness before.

I also went sailing with the recovering inpatients and the outpatients in psychotherapy. Sounds more exciting than it actually was (they were mostly recovering depressives), but I'll take a day in the sun on a boat than a bright summer afternoon spent in a dark obs room.

I still can't tell Zyprexa from Celexa, but I think it was a fair trade.

Smitty · Aug 13, 2004

I haven't heard of those books either. Just from the jacket on amazon.com they look interesting. I'll have to ckeck them out. Thanks!

"If there's one thing Dr. Atkins taught us, it's that we're all gonna die!"
Ruby Ann Boxcar-"Ruby Ann's Down Home Trailer Park Cookbook"

yaah · Aug 14, 2004

deschutes said:
I have rather fond memories of Psych. PsychMDs were the guys who said, "Whaddaya wanna do call for? Go home - you have a lifetime of call ahead of you anyway."

My preceptor made superb book recommendations e.g. Bly's "Iron John" and Styron's "Darkness Visible". It was the first time I heard of those books. Not sure if the patients ever got around to reading them, but to me they were infinitely more appealing than the DSM-IV. I had never thought of depression as a madness before.

Styron's book is unbelievable. It was so well written and informative. There really is no way to describe it other that to say that anyone who cares for or loves someone with depression should read it.

IMHO, the movie "Ordinary People" with Timothy Hutton was also a fantastic depiction of mental health issues, in particular what happens when one parent is almost "too caring" and one is at the other extreme, being too harsh. That movie made me weep more than any film I ever saw (although House of Sand and Fog came pretty close...).

deschutes · Aug 14, 2004

yaah said:
Styron's book is unbelievable. It was so well written and informative. There really is no way to describe it other that to say that anyone who cares for or loves someone with depression should read it.

Yes, and if what he says is to be believed, then true severe depression is in fact a "disaster beyond your imagination". Terrifying.

"A Beautiful Mind" usually comes into discussions like these - for me it wasn't so much the movie itself, as the spine-chilling premise that with schizophrenia a person couldn't tell where the real ended and the unreal began. In other words, there seemed to be only the thinnest barrier separating me and the patient across the table - but for the grace of God, I could be that person.

I've mentioned this thought/sensation/feeling to various individuals - some get it, some don't.

Then I did the rotation, and found that schizophrenics like others had described, could be rather fun.

yaah said:
IMHO, the movie "Ordinary People" with Timothy Hutton .... made me weep more than any film I ever saw (although House of Sand and Fog came pretty close...).

Chalk up another one on my list. I saw the trailer for House and based on that decided that it wasn't watch-me-on-the-big-screen material. I actually saw it yesterday in the video store, but passed and rented Hope Springs instead. 😛 Needed some eye candy, and Colin Firth totally hit the spot.

It's 7:30am on a Saturday. A ridiculous time to be awake.
Somehow I managed to turn ON the alarm in my sleep last night, which woke me up at 7. In the process of trying to get back to sleep, I realized my pager was buzzing against something (I leave it on vibrate).

3 pages at 2am from a friend in the US. I hope I find out why.

b&ierstiefel · Aug 14, 2004

The redeeming about psychiatry is that you'll always have some funny stories and experiences to tell. I mean, on my one month of psych, I saw some things that cracked me up. The haldol (or vitamin H) shot to the butt, tranquilized violent manic lady, somatization disorder patient who was being confronted by the neurologist, etc.

Smitty · Aug 14, 2004

"Ordinary People"...I think I saw that movie a long time ago, I remember thinking it was good. Will have to check it out as well. Checked out "Darkness Visible" from the library today and have read nearly all of it-so far a great book. A little off the subject (actually on the subject since I forgot this IS a path forum): Colorblindness and pathology. When I first came to med school a nurse gave us all a colorblind test and told me I am red-green colorblind. I kind of wrote it off and forgot about it, but today I was in the bookstore with my wife and came across another one of those colorblind dot pictures. My wife could easily read "42", wheras I could only read the 4. Sure enough, the 2 part was a red and green dot picture. I could see the different colors where the 2 was but could not make out the shape of the 2. Any significance to being able to read path slides? Thoughts?

"If there's one thing Dr. Atkins taught us, it's that we're all gonna die!"
Ruby Ann Boxcar-"Ruby Ann's Down Home Trailer Park Cookbook"

deschutes · Aug 14, 2004

We were talking about this a little while ago on the Myopia and Pathology thread...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=138697

I find the whole idea of colour-blindness fascinating. Maybe there are people out there who can see into the ultraviolet end of the spectrum. I remember reading about the possibility of a "Madam Tetrachromat " too... not sure if there's any basis to this report, or if it's merely pop/pseudo-science.

Smitty · Aug 28, 2004

Hey, sorry haven't posted for a while, been kinda busy with random things. Hope everyone is getting along well with the application process, etc. So far it hasn't been as much of a pain in the arse as I thought. Course, interviews haven't started yet 😛 . In reference to my previous post about my totally weak 3rd year rank, I have an explanation, but should I bring it up or only mention in when it is brought up by someone else? For those of you who have been on the interview trail, whaddya think? My thinking is that the programs I apply to are gonna find out anyway, so I might as well give my story as to why my rank doesn't really match with my grades, scores or reality. On the other hand, whether pathologists even care that much about 3rd year rank or not is still a mystery to me, so maybe I shouldn't even bring it up unless someone directly asks about it? What do you guys think? Thanks in advance.

__________________________________________________________
"If there's one thing Dr. Atkins taught us, it's that we're all gonna die!"
Ruby Ann Boxcar-"Ruby Ann's Down Home Trailer Park Cookbook"

yaah · Aug 28, 2004

I don't know how to answer that one, actually. I guess, you're right, they are going to find out about it anyway and form their own conclusions unless you explain, and I certainly wouldn't count on most of your interviewers to directly ask you about it. Perhaps I would save it for the interview with the program director or those on the selection committee? They are the ones who ultimately will be evaluating your whole application. Many of the interviewers are there to give you more information on the program and to help evaluate you via the interview.

I think it depends on the program director you interview with. Some are just frankly too nice to be likely to ask you about the poor ranking, but they will still factor it in. I guess I would see how things go, and if all else fails you can write them or call them afterwards? Do you have a good advisor? This would be a good question to ask.

Smitty · Aug 29, 2004

Thanks for the reply Yaah. Yeah, I guess I'll ask my advisor. How do we find out who is on the selection comittee? Is that info provided to you when you interview?

____________________________________________________________
"If there's one thing Dr. Atkins taught us, it's that we're all gonna die!"
Ruby Ann Boxcar-"Ruby Ann's Down Home Trailer Park Cookbook"

yaah · Aug 29, 2004

Most places give you a list of faculty and who is on the admissions committee. Some don't though, but I think it's pretty easy to find on any description of their residency program or their selection process.

rirriri · Aug 29, 2004

yaah said:
Most places give you a list of faculty and who is on the admissions committee. Some don't though, but I think it's pretty easy to find on any description of their residency program or their selection process.

yeah, you can be pretty open and just ask them...i don't think it's a strange thing to ask at all.

Smitty · Aug 29, 2004

I'm having a mock interview with a faculty member who is also on the selection committee. Maybe I'll go ahead and tell him my side of the story. I hate to spend so much time during the interview explaining this, but I might not have a choice.

____________________________________________________________
"If there's one thing Dr. Atkins taught us, it's that we're all gonna die!"
Ruby Ann Boxcar-"Ruby Ann's Down Home Trailer Park Cookbook"

Another lame "what are my chances" post...

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